Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)
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I guess if you really wanted to know you could look at family history. I grew about 2 inches between age 19 and age 21 but that's fairly rare and a lot of people in my family had late growth spurts. As a primary ballhandler I don't know that an inch more will change his outlook much though.
This is the point I would make as well. Luka is still a teenager -- he just turned 19 -- and he was the MVP of the Euroleague. There was an interview with ESPN earlier this year which made reference to him grabbing Snickers bars from the gas station and name dropping Five Guys (a particularly greasy but tasty hamburger chain). If he's this good right now when he spends his free time playing video games and snacks on candy bars and fast food burgers and fries, how much better could he be with a professional training staff and a nutritionist at his disposal? He's got more natural talent than he knows what to do with. He might not ever be an elite run and jump athlete but it looks like he's got quite a bit of room for improvement just by working on his body. There is sometimes a fear with somebody so brilliantly talented that they won't want to work hard because everything has always come easy to them. But if that's where we're at when looking for weaknesses, I think that's pretty telling of just how special he is. He's clearly the best player in the draft to me. I'm a big DeAndre Ayton fan but I'm hoping Phoenix picks him anyway and I'll be very upset if we decide to pass on Luka for some reason.
This is the point I would make as well. Luka is still a teenager -- he just turned 19 -- and he was the MVP of the Euroleague. There was an interview with ESPN earlier this year which made reference to him grabbing Snickers bars from the gas station and name dropping Five Guys (a particularly greasy but tasty hamburger chain). If he's this good right now when he spends his free time playing video games and snacks on candy bars and fast food burgers and fries, how much better could he be with a professional training staff and a nutritionist at his disposal? He's got more natural talent than he knows what to do with. He might not ever be an elite run and jump athlete but it looks like he's got quite a bit of room for improvement just by working on his body. There is sometimes a fear with somebody so brilliantly talented that they won't want to work hard because everything has always come easy to them. But if that's where we're at when looking for weaknesses, I think that's pretty telling of just how special he is. He's clearly the best player in the draft to me. I'm a big DeAndre Ayton fan but I'm hoping Phoenix picks him anyway and I'll be very upset if we decide to pass on Luka for some reason.
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Anyone complaining about his physical condition is kind of making a really, really, really dumb point. 19 year olds aren't supposed to look like DeAndre Ayton, who is a complete outlier with his physical profile for how young he is. Should we not have drafted Boogie because he was pudgy coming out of Kentucky?
I'm simply not worried about Doncic's physical profile at all. I want to see the wingspan and length for sure, but he's for sure a classic example who should see a massive boost getting on an NBA training program and diet. It's a common theme with almost all the young Euro guys who come over; they're either really, really skinny (Kristaps, Dirk, Bargs, Pau Gasol), or they're on the pudgy side. (Marc, Jokic, I think Nurk?).
If anything, it makes what he did even more impressive. He put up historic Euro-League numbers at age 19 when he's probably not even close to being in as good of shape as he can be. It feels like people are trying their best to nitpick this guy to death, but it doesn't change the fact that it's been a DAMN long time since we've seen a wing prospect with his level of skill on the offensive end at age 19.
I'm simply not worried about Doncic's physical profile at all. I want to see the wingspan and length for sure, but he's for sure a classic example who should see a massive boost getting on an NBA training program and diet. It's a common theme with almost all the young Euro guys who come over; they're either really, really skinny (Kristaps, Dirk, Bargs, Pau Gasol), or they're on the pudgy side. (Marc, Jokic, I think Nurk?).
If anything, it makes what he did even more impressive. He put up historic Euro-League numbers at age 19 when he's probably not even close to being in as good of shape as he can be. It feels like people are trying their best to nitpick this guy to death, but it doesn't change the fact that it's been a DAMN long time since we've seen a wing prospect with his level of skill on the offensive end at age 19.
Amen NONE OF THIS is that simple imo. None of it. (Changing subject now
Even this idea that we must get a superstar or else with this pick. Like this is the most crucial crossroads ever... none of this is simple. What if next summer we have a buttload of cash - I mean a crap ton of cash - and a core of Fox, Bogi, Buddy, Luka, Giles who have just won hearts and minds with grit as they approached 40 wins and were never an easy out ... and we go superstar shopping then? Oh I know, simple says “no superstar will come here”. Bah there isn’t enough history to draw that conclusion. And that would be a hella-nice core to add a superstar to. So who says the superstar has to come in this draft.
Edit: The smiley was supposed to just be a colon and a closed paren.... but I guess that is grammatically not real so who am I to say it shouldn’t be a smile. Guess the universal surprised me with a smile today.
Even this idea that we must get a superstar or else with this pick. Like this is the most crucial crossroads ever... none of this is simple. What if next summer we have a buttload of cash - I mean a crap ton of cash - and a core of Fox, Bogi, Buddy, Luka, Giles who have just won hearts and minds with grit as they approached 40 wins and were never an easy out ... and we go superstar shopping then? Oh I know, simple says “no superstar will come here”. Bah there isn’t enough history to draw that conclusion. And that would be a hella-nice core to add a superstar to. So who says the superstar has to come in this draft.Edit: The smiley was supposed to just be a colon and a closed paren.... but I guess that is grammatically not real so who am I to say it shouldn’t be a smile. Guess the universal surprised me with a smile today.
I’ve come across your discussion concerning Doncic’s growth and overall height and I just wanted to offer some layperson insight.
I did some digging on his parents and his father, Sasa Doncic, (used to be a pro basketball player) is listed as 6’7.5 on his Wiki page. He used to play SF/PF/SG and seemed to be rather strong and athletic (for 90s era Euroleague player with poorer conditioning).
I don’t have info on his mother, but judging by the photos where she’s standing next to Luka, I wouldn’t say she’s shorter than 5’10 either (assuming she’s not wearing giant heels?).
Doncic also used to be listed as 6’6/6’7 frequently about a year ago, but is definitely a solid 6’8 now, so he has definitely grown in that time. Another thing, I don’t know if it’s just me, but if you disregard his overall size, Doncic still seems pretty teenaged looking, especially if you compare him to other players in the draft who basically look full grown at this point. I don’t know if it’s the extra pounds, or the "baby fat" some have mentioned, but he still seems to have some physical maturing to do. I’m far from a growth specialist and I'm not saying that he WILL grow some more, but he was still 18 less than three months ago, so I think he has potential to grow at least an inch, plus there’s a possibility he’ll still naturally get a bit stronger thanks to his father’s genetics.
(Note: Edited by moderator to remove photo-failed-to-load errors. Poster is welcome to try again, perhaps inserting a link instead of uploading will have a better chance of success.)
I did some digging on his parents and his father, Sasa Doncic, (used to be a pro basketball player) is listed as 6’7.5 on his Wiki page. He used to play SF/PF/SG and seemed to be rather strong and athletic (for 90s era Euroleague player with poorer conditioning).
I don’t have info on his mother, but judging by the photos where she’s standing next to Luka, I wouldn’t say she’s shorter than 5’10 either (assuming she’s not wearing giant heels?).
Doncic also used to be listed as 6’6/6’7 frequently about a year ago, but is definitely a solid 6’8 now, so he has definitely grown in that time. Another thing, I don’t know if it’s just me, but if you disregard his overall size, Doncic still seems pretty teenaged looking, especially if you compare him to other players in the draft who basically look full grown at this point. I don’t know if it’s the extra pounds, or the "baby fat" some have mentioned, but he still seems to have some physical maturing to do. I’m far from a growth specialist and I'm not saying that he WILL grow some more, but he was still 18 less than three months ago, so I think he has potential to grow at least an inch, plus there’s a possibility he’ll still naturally get a bit stronger thanks to his father’s genetics.
(Note: Edited by moderator to remove photo-failed-to-load errors. Poster is welcome to try again, perhaps inserting a link instead of uploading will have a better chance of success.)
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I don't disagree with this but let's not forget that Luka is playing fro one the best, most professional clubs in the world so its not like he hasn't been exposed to a professional environment.
Real Madrid have their own academy where they recruit players like Doncic from all over the world, get them to live in their headquarters (yes the have actual facilities where these kids live when they sign them) and tailor a development program for them. While there is scope for Luka to improve his athletisicm a bit, its not like that he hasn't been exposed to the professional environment and those training methods.
This is not a college athlete coming into the league or even a European who has played for one of the poorer European clubs. this is a kids who plays for the team that is one of the richest clubs in the world with world class facilities and professional training programs.
Real Madrid have their own academy where they recruit players like Doncic from all over the world, get them to live in their headquarters (yes the have actual facilities where these kids live when they sign them) and tailor a development program for them. While there is scope for Luka to improve his athletisicm a bit, its not like that he hasn't been exposed to the professional environment and those training methods.
This is not a college athlete coming into the league or even a European who has played for one of the poorer European clubs. this is a kids who plays for the team that is one of the richest clubs in the world with world class facilities and professional training programs.
They may have a good development program and professional trainers but maybe they didn't put effort into developing his athletic ability, where in Europe it's not looked as much of an importance as say in the NBA, that's not to say the NBA is all athletic ability, far from it, but when you play in the NBA versus Europe, you are facing more athleticism in general and it never hurts to work on a weakness and try your best to turn it into a positive at the very least rather than an absolute detriment.
While I agree with you, I wonder if a club like Real Madrid puts the same type of resources in basketball as they do soccer? I don't mean to be offensive in any way, but most European players come into the NBA out of shape or really skinny. It makes me wonder if strength and conditioning is not a primary focus?
While I am concerned about Luka's athleticism I am not concerned in the slightest with his shooting.
He will be a 40% shooter from the 3PT line in time. He is a better shooter now than Bogdan was at the same age and I think we would all agree that Bogdan is a pretty good shooter who will get better once he gets more comfortable with the NBA 3PT line.
Luka will be no different. His shot is already good but will get better. He will speed up his release and become more accurate shooter. His shooting is the least of my concern. I think at his peak he could be a 20/7/7 type player and that is pretty darn good. Those are all-star type numbers.
He will be a 40% shooter from the 3PT line in time. He is a better shooter now than Bogdan was at the same age and I think we would all agree that Bogdan is a pretty good shooter who will get better once he gets more comfortable with the NBA 3PT line.
Luka will be no different. His shot is already good but will get better. He will speed up his release and become more accurate shooter. His shooting is the least of my concern. I think at his peak he could be a 20/7/7 type player and that is pretty darn good. Those are all-star type numbers.
Look its a reasonable point. Someone like Bogdan is probably most physically ready player that has come into the NBA because he is someone that works his backside off in the gym with weights and various other exercises.
On Real Madrid, there is no doubt that football generates more money for them and greater resources are put in place there but a lot of that carries into the Basketball club. Its the teams that sit under the same umbrella if you like. They would not be under resourced from that perspective.
On Real Madrid, there is no doubt that football generates more money for them and greater resources are put in place there but a lot of that carries into the Basketball club. Its the teams that sit under the same umbrella if you like. They would not be under resourced from that perspective.
While those numbers are great, I think the impact of him playing the way he does and involving his teammates is going to be more significant than the stats. I think whatever team he ends up on the guys are going to love playing with him.
He's my guy at number 2, unless he goes number 1. Ayton and Bagley are 2 and 3, respectively. He's an impact player and he's the type of guy who can affect the game at multiple levels. He reminds me of Ginobili minus the craftiness. Ginobili didn't average a crazy statline at any point in his career, but I dare anyone to say the Spurs would have been the Spurs without him. He was their hero many a time in all sorts of games. His impact was undeniable. The crazy thing is Dončić is just as talented in terms of scoring and passing and is way bigger, with lots of room to improve. He will be bullying people once he muscles up. The kid doesn't know how to utilize all of skills yet and he just won Euroleague and was the MVP.
Isn't that scary? Doesn't that make you want a guy like that on your team?
He's my guy at number 2, unless he goes number 1. Ayton and Bagley are 2 and 3, respectively. He's an impact player and he's the type of guy who can affect the game at multiple levels. He reminds me of Ginobili minus the craftiness. Ginobili didn't average a crazy statline at any point in his career, but I dare anyone to say the Spurs would have been the Spurs without him. He was their hero many a time in all sorts of games. His impact was undeniable. The crazy thing is Dončić is just as talented in terms of scoring and passing and is way bigger, with lots of room to improve. He will be bullying people once he muscles up. The kid doesn't know how to utilize all of skills yet and he just won Euroleague and was the MVP.
Isn't that scary? Doesn't that make you want a guy like that on your team?
People are saying in his prime he might get there. That doesn't mean he's going to take Summer League by storm. I would expect him to play well there but it's also a situation where you meet your teammates and coach a week before. It's not really a good indicator of anything other than maybe Alpha dog mentality and raw athleticism.
I also probably should have picked my words more carefully when I implied that Doncic doesn't have professional development resources at his disposal already. I guess what I meant to say is that most young players don't take nutrition and weightlifting and body recovery and tape sessions all that seriously until they mature a bit and start realizing that their body and mind are their meal ticket and investing in them is going to allow them to increase their performance. He doesn't need to come to the NBA to have those resources, but it doesn't appear that he's really taking advantage of them now. Which is what I expect from a basketball prodigy who hasn't really needed to yet.
I also probably should have picked my words more carefully when I implied that Doncic doesn't have professional development resources at his disposal already. I guess what I meant to say is that most young players don't take nutrition and weightlifting and body recovery and tape sessions all that seriously until they mature a bit and start realizing that their body and mind are their meal ticket and investing in them is going to allow them to increase their performance. He doesn't need to come to the NBA to have those resources, but it doesn't appear that he's really taking advantage of them now. Which is what I expect from a basketball prodigy who hasn't really needed to yet.
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