=LarryLegend=
Starter
as long as the Kings are in Sacramento you can name it whatever.......
Looks like Power Balance Pavillion will have a different name for next season!
- Thread starter kingjatt
- Start date
arwen undomiel
Bench
I wonder if Aerojet would be interested.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
If I read the article correctly, one of the Maloofs didn't even know who the partners of Sleep Train were. Perhaps we don't have a big name on the arena because the Maloofs don't try. The Maloofs have clearly shown they don't know how to market their team to sponsors. Remember KJ came up with $10 mil of sponsors. He made it look easy.. Maybe it IS easy.
There are plenty of big sponsors in this country and many have so darn much money a million a year would mean nothing and besides would be written off as advertising. The best example I have is NASCAR. Look at the names on the cars like Dewalt, Lowes, M&Ms, Target, GoDaddy, Sprint, Nationwide, Camping World, Tide (used to be), Army, National Guard, Red Bull, etc. These aren't the minor sponsors but the major sponsors. I haven't counted but I'll bet 40 cars have major sponsors. M&Ms??? It is up to the Maloofs to be creative. Good grief if M&Ms will sponsor bad boy Kyle Busch, they will sponsor the Kings' arena.
Why not Home Depot? C'mon Maloofs. Quit crying in your beer or vodka and get on the phone. Any major company that has a national audience is approachable. Sleep Train? With our luck we will end up with Snickers. but I'd settle for it and be proud. Without making a joke of this subject, think of the companies that might sponsor. Ford, Chrysler, Chevrolet, Honda, Hyundai .... the list is endless.
There are plenty of big sponsors in this country and many have so darn much money a million a year would mean nothing and besides would be written off as advertising. The best example I have is NASCAR. Look at the names on the cars like Dewalt, Lowes, M&Ms, Target, GoDaddy, Sprint, Nationwide, Camping World, Tide (used to be), Army, National Guard, Red Bull, etc. These aren't the minor sponsors but the major sponsors. I haven't counted but I'll bet 40 cars have major sponsors. M&Ms??? It is up to the Maloofs to be creative. Good grief if M&Ms will sponsor bad boy Kyle Busch, they will sponsor the Kings' arena.
Why not Home Depot? C'mon Maloofs. Quit crying in your beer or vodka and get on the phone. Any major company that has a national audience is approachable. Sleep Train? With our luck we will end up with Snickers. but I'd settle for it and be proud. Without making a joke of this subject, think of the companies that might sponsor. Ford, Chrysler, Chevrolet, Honda, Hyundai .... the list is endless.
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macadocious
Starter
I don't believe that is true. I know for a fact Gavin has direct contact with the major sponsors and their representatives. Also, for the most part, they like him as well. He does some of the negotiating on behalf of the Kings and MS&E.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Are you directing this at me? What don't you believe is true? Is it not true one of the Maloofs didn't know the partners of Sleep Train? Is it not true that KJ came up with $10 mil that the Maloofs missed? In the end, there are no results except a scam company like Power Balance. I'd be on the phone days on an end until I found someone legitimate.
kingjatt
Starter
He may very well have direct contact with major sponsors and might be liked as a buddy but I think he was making the point that the maloofs arent aggressive enough, in marketing you must be extremely aggressive and humble, this self entitlement vibe i get from the brothers is extremely bad when it comes to convincing sponsers to partner up with you.
aside from last season when KJ brought in VSP,Thunder Valley etc the kings have pretty much been jack in the box, toshiba copiers, carls jr., cache creek and the palms for a decade.
KJ putting together 10 million in a matter of months with little to no experiance in marketing is very telling of the maloofs lack of business sense. He even had a lucritive naming rights deal in place had the new ESC gone thru.
Theres a reason Burkle, MVP, etc want to buy the kings and keep them here, they see an untapped market with loads of potential when the team/business is managed right.
Its the freakin 20th largest media market with a huge population with no major sports compitetion! fielding a competitive team in a new building would bring in truckloads of money from sponsers and fans alike regardless of the economy.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
The original deal with ARCO was $1 mil forever. I think eventually that was renegotiated. Anyway, there should be companies bidding against each other. It doesn't make any difference how poor we are now. Sell a company for a short contract with a built in rate depending on national exposure. There must be many ways of working a contract. I simply do not buy the idea that no company wants it's name on top of even that piece of crap arena in Natomas. Well, maybe they don't. 
It's a failure of the organization. I like a few of the Maloofs but they are not business men.
It's a failure of the organization. I like a few of the Maloofs but they are not business men.
Section 101
All-Star
The original deal with ARCO was $1 mil forever. I think eventually that was renegotiated. Anyway, there should be companies bidding against each other. It doesn't make any difference how poor we are now. Sell a company for a short contract with a built in rate depending on national exposure. There must be many ways of working a contract. I simply do not buy the idea that no company wants it's name on top of even that piece of crap arena in Natomas. Well, maybe they don't.
It was also the first NBA building with the naming rights sold!
I seem to recall MSE has a good sponsorship relationship with the Palms.
Peter_Gibbons
Starter
I really doubt it is the Maloofs' negotiating and marketing skills. I know there are a lot of people that make fun of how they loss most of the Palms, but they really did really well with their casino up until the crash.
For anyone that has been to the Palms, it is really a mediocre place with very basis decor and is nothing comparable to the main strip big boys. But for years they were able to market the Palms as the entertainment and nightlife central where many people flocked there to party and get a chance to see celebrities. Their room rates were on par with many 4 star - 5 star properties on the strip for many years because of how popular the place was. Their location is off strip and for them to be able to get multiple MTV awards hosted at the Palms as well as constant appearances of high profile celebrities really makes them marketing gurus.
kingjatt
Starter
I disagree, im no expert but i dont think anyone who loses 78% of their business is any type of guru.
Prophetess
Gallifrayain
Does this mean the ampitheatre near Marysville will get renamed or will Sleep Train hold naming rights to both?
The promoters for the amitheatre know how to get name acts to book, so maybe it's a teeny tiny light in the darkness?
The promoters for the amitheatre know how to get name acts to book, so maybe it's a teeny tiny light in the darkness?
Peter_Gibbons
Starter
Everyone else in Vegas loss big too. MGM, the group that owns half the strip casinos had to sell TI to pay down some debt and have been on the verge of bankruptcy every quarter since the crash. Only starting last quarter did they start to make a slight comeback. LV Sands, Boyd, Harrahs, everyone loss a lots and lots of money. The difference is those other guys have many other assets to sell to cover and drag it out until the economy turns. The Maloofs only have the Kings and the beer distributorship which they sold, peanuts comparing to everyone else.
When things were so good pre-crash, casinos were borrowing $100 to every $1 of earning to expend and the banks were signing the checks. So unless you are saying that all these other billion dollar corporations are all not very smart, then the Maloofs simply got caught in the crash like everyone else.
kingjatt
Starter
didnt ceasars palace buy up alot of the palms debt? if so then not all were losing money like you said. and like you said the others had adequete collateral to borrow at a high rate knowing that if things went bad they wouldnt lose everything, well the maloofs got caught up in this, built palms place knowing full well it was a very risky move with their lack of assets and in a downturning economy. just because the bank gives you the loan doesnt mean you should take it, anyone that has built an empire instead of inheriting one knows this. that is where their ego and dumb business sense comes into play. they sold the cash cow beer distributorship to save their flashy casino how can you call that a guru move? not saying they didnt have marketing sucess at one time, but that one time, was a very long time ago their list of dumb moves is a lot longer than the list of good moves.
Not a very good defense of the Maloofs business practices. What you basically said is that they rolled the dice to risk almost everything without having the deep resources of the other casinos. That in itself was not smart and purely ego based move. They were even more stupid to lose their beer distributorship in attempt to save the sinking ship. Smart business people would have seen the writing on the wall and gave up the casino and saved the beer dist.
The problem with the family is that the last good business mind left when George Sr died. The rest of them are gambling fools. If you look at most all of their business ventures, it's full of high risk - low chance of success investments. They lost more than a casino. They also failed on the recording and entertainment business. If you made a top 10 list of cut throat high risk investments, they probably were into most of them.
So defend away, but I bet you wouldn't invest a dime of your money on anything they are involved with.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Reminds me of one of my favorite scenes in the movie "Way of the Gun" where Benidicio Del Toro remarks that the problem with young ciminals is that they want to be criminals with out taking the time learn how to commit crimes. The Maloof brats want to be millionaire business people with out learning how to make money. They are by definition posers.
Peter_Gibbons
Starter
You are not getting the point. Go back and check what you quoted from me in bold. I said the Maloofs are marketing gurus. Whether they over leveraged or not has no connection to their marketing skills. One aspect of good marketing is making something mediocre into something that everyone wants. The Palms was build on a budget and it showed even from grand opening. But it cannot be denied that the Maloofs made it into the place to be for parties in Vegas for a good 6-7 year run.
The Palms was always on TV and pop culture such as music videos of big acts like Eminem, Lil Wayne's, Britney Spears, etc. They hosted the MTV music awards, Real World reality show, NBA all star game events, the list goes on. Anyone that can bring this kind of publicity and spotlight to a relatively small, off strip casino is a marketing guru. This allowed the Palms to charge strip prices for their rooms and services while their neighbor Rio Casino Resort struggles even with the cheap rates for large suites.
Regarding your off topic stuff, Caesars is in debt currently for about $20 billion. They loss close to a billion from operation last year alone. TPG is the capital firm that owns the Caesars group and now also own a big chunk of the Palms. This doesn't mean the Caesars casinos didn't lose money during the crash like everyone else.
Capital investment firms like TPG raise capital and buy struggling businesses all the time. That is how TPG purchased a chunk of Caesars in the first place. The Maloofs loss a lot of money and have over leveraged just like many other casinos in Vegas. I'm sure they made some bad decisions along the way like others. If you want to single them out as morons for that really because they wanted to leave Sac, just say so.
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kingjatt
Starter
what good is all of that "great" marketing if your business cant stay afloat? i disagree i think it has a strong connection to their business skills because marketing skills are a direct extension of your business skills. its obviously not great enough marketing or you dont have the business sense to realize that all of these great acts are still not enough to cover the bills.
saying well everybody was doing it so it excuses the goofs doesnt cut it, bottom line is they lost their casino, along with the cash cow beer distributorship in a span of a few years leaving only a pro sports team as their primary money making asset. Thats terrible business sense and erradicates any 6-7 year run they had. I think your overblowing that run as well because if it was as great as you claim they would still have more than 2% of the palms and a toy to show for it. their bad times/decisions destroy any run they had.
TGP owns ceasars therefore i used the word ceasars in referance to the takeover of the palms.
Them wanting to leave the most attractive publicly subsidized arena deal in history is just one of the reasons i want to single them out as bad business people. The list of terrible moves they have made is to long to list and outwiegh any lucky streak they might have had.
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+1.
Section 101
All-Star
You don't think they had a marketing company doing all the work?
kingjatt
Starter
well then they are gurus for selecting that marketing company, any way you slice it they are gurus and we are bitter sacramento kings fans
kennadog
Dog On It!
+2 - BTW, the Maloofs only retained a whopping 2% interest in the Palms, although there are some conditions under which they may be able to buy back up to a total of 20%.
Listen, the Palms is only one of the Maloofs failed businesses. They were stupid to sell the beer distributorship to try and save the Palms, in my opinion. It just wasn't flashy enough for them.
Almost anybody, business smart or not, can make money in a really hot economy. It's the one's who can survive a crash, mostly intact that are the ones with true business acumen. And owning a pro sports team is really like a very expensive hobby for the ultra-rich, which the Maloofs are not. I wish they'd just give up the team to new ownership for the sake of the team and its fans.
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Mike0476
Starter
And for the sake of our city, its economy, future, etc.
No, don't you remember? The Maloofs turned down the arena deal because it was bad for Sacramento! They would never, ever, ever do anything in their own self-interest! They are pure and holy martyrs, spilling their blameless blood for the sake of the Sacramento community!
Mike0476
Starter
You're right. What was I thinking? They're heroes. They're not villians.
We are the villains - we and our community failure to build the Maloofs a free arena. But it takes somebody who is smart enough to learn to make a documentary from scratch to know that.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Oh yeah.
That will still retain the name of the Sleep Train Ampitheatre while Arco Arena/PBP will become the Sleep Train Wreck.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I totally agree with your last paragraph. Having owned my own business, and watching other businesses go out of business when the econony went south, I do know a little about it. The more you leverage your business, the more risk you take. Take it at the wrong time, and you just might lose your business. People that leverage, are trying to speed up the growing process. When things went south, my business didn't owe a dime to anyone. Even then, it was hard to survive. So I can only imagine what the results are when you've borrowed big bucks.
ArcoKings
Starter
The Maloofs' biggest mistake was TIMING. Had they postponed or cancelled the expansion entirely at the Palms it could have been a different story. Had they not built the expansion they still would have faced severe problems like falling gaming revenues (as everyone else in Las Vegas CONTINUES to do so) and falling occupancy rates (as everyone else in Las Vegas CONTINUES to do so). Would the Maloofs be surviving right now with the lower visitor numbers, lower gaming revenues and lower occupancy rates without the expansion as sole owners? Who knows? The Palms was a 'mom and pop' business. The gigantic gaming resorts on the Strip and elsewhere have support from their large share holder base and knock-out connections to capital and even they are losing millions and millions of dollars.
Now the majority of the resort is owned by another firm with the Maloofs only having a 2% stake. Their financial responsibility to the resort now is basically non-existent. I bet they sleep better now that the Palms takeover nightmare is behind them. Its probably safe to say that had they not constructed the expansion they would still be in the beer distributorship business or at least sold that business to invest the money in something else.
Viva Las Vegas.
Now the majority of the resort is owned by another firm with the Maloofs only having a 2% stake. Their financial responsibility to the resort now is basically non-existent. I bet they sleep better now that the Palms takeover nightmare is behind them. Its probably safe to say that had they not constructed the expansion they would still be in the beer distributorship business or at least sold that business to invest the money in something else.
Viva Las Vegas.
