Looking Ahead to Next Season...
- Thread starter twslam07
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As long as we have a team that actually moves the ball more than one pass on offence and actually runs back on defence I don't care who is on the team. We need to remove that isolation garbage which makes up 99% of our offence and actually have some standards on defence where if you take plays off you can sit on the bench.
I'm just sick and tired of this primitive basketball at both ends (with very varying effort) which has no chance to succeed in the playoffs and little chance of getting us there in the West in the first place. If Rudy/IT are re-signed they have to change the way they play (I doubt they can). Also Cousins has shown he can easily play without all the bs associated with it so now do it for a whole season and than the rest of your career he can easily control his temper he just choose not to until he got his 15th tech.
The thing's I'm most looking forward to next season is if Cousins improves his half hook (well using it more) and mid range jumper and how much the two Mac's progress, I pretty much know what your getting from all the others these three guy's have the most room for improvement in them atm .
I'm just sick and tired of this primitive basketball at both ends (with very varying effort) which has no chance to succeed in the playoffs and little chance of getting us there in the West in the first place. If Rudy/IT are re-signed they have to change the way they play (I doubt they can). Also Cousins has shown he can easily play without all the bs associated with it so now do it for a whole season and than the rest of your career he can easily control his temper he just choose not to until he got his 15th tech.
The thing's I'm most looking forward to next season is if Cousins improves his half hook (well using it more) and mid range jumper and how much the two Mac's progress, I pretty much know what your getting from all the others these three guy's have the most room for improvement in them atm .
Of course, as far as Gay is concerned there is not only (potentially) the free agency period but also the issue of his player option. Gay will have the right to opt out of his contract up until June 30th**. If he doesn't opt out, obviously there is no free agency for him. The tricky bit is that even if Rudy decides that he will NOT opt out, there is no "I'm not going to opt out" mechanism, so we can't be sure until June 30th. Got that backwards. Rudy can make an irrevocable decision to trigger the final year of his contract before June 30th (not sure when the window opens), but he can't make an irrevocable decision to become a free agent until June 30th.
** Technically, his contract could have been negotiated with an earlier final opt-out date, but it doesn't appear that this technicality is widely used, so he probably has until June 30th to opt out.
** Technically, his contract could have been negotiated with an earlier final opt-out date, but it doesn't appear that this technicality is widely used, so he probably has until June 30th to opt out.
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Actually, I think I've got it a bit backwards above. Because the contract is a player option, it appears that it is considered a no-go until Rudy opts in, which he could do up until June 30th (at which point he would become a free agent if he does not opt in). However, he can opt in earlier than that, and if he does then he is held to it - can't change his mind.
So the scenarios can kind of play out like this:
1) Rudy opts in before the draft - we draft knowing we have Rudy next year, Rudy is tradeable on draft day
2) Rudy does not make a decision before the draft - we draft under a cloud of uncertainty (Rudy may have said what he will do but is not held to it), Rudy is not tradeable on draft day, Rudy can take into consideration who we draft if he wants
3) Rudy tells us he will definitely not opt in - Rudy is not tradeable on draft day, but he could in principle change his mind and opt in (though it would seem unlikely)
So the scenarios can kind of play out like this:
1) Rudy opts in before the draft - we draft knowing we have Rudy next year, Rudy is tradeable on draft day
2) Rudy does not make a decision before the draft - we draft under a cloud of uncertainty (Rudy may have said what he will do but is not held to it), Rudy is not tradeable on draft day, Rudy can take into consideration who we draft if he wants
3) Rudy tells us he will definitely not opt in - Rudy is not tradeable on draft day, but he could in principle change his mind and opt in (though it would seem unlikely)
W
Which is a nice way of saying that McLemore sucks which I agree with. He has huge upside because he is so far behind the curve. I hope for the best for him but want some player with proven skill to play in his stead. Let Ben come off the bench for a season or two or until he can play competitively.
Which is a nice way of saying that McLemore sucks which I agree with. He has huge upside because he is so far behind the curve. I hope for the best for him but want some player with proven skill to play in his stead. Let Ben come off the bench for a season or two or until he can play competitively.
Watched Nike Hoops Summit 2013 yesterday, and Randle looked really athletic. Maybe he put on too much muscle last summer, because in college he didn't look nearly as explosive. But D concerns still stay, so he's not a good fit next to Boogie...Just saying, he might have a career similar to Al Jefferson: suspect defense, but can really score and rebound.
DX has us taking Vonleh, who wouldnt be bad next to Cousins. I also wouldnt mind us drafting Gordon, who could develop into a elite glue guy/roleplayer...Just the kind of player our ISO ISO team could use.
I dont see picking #7 as the end of the world. Seems like every year a lot of great players get drafted in the 6-8 range, and there is always a bust or two in the top 5.
I dont see picking #7 as the end of the world. Seems like every year a lot of great players get drafted in the 6-8 range, and there is always a bust or two in the top 5.
Vonleh doesn't look to be much of a Cousins fit. He can rebound, but his attraction is his offense, which is the thing you don't need/can't have next to Cousins. Defense is not likely to be much. Won der a bit about the potential for draft day trades to move around if we can't get the right guy here at our spot.
Vonleh has the potential to be a very strong rebounder. And a pretty good post defender and weakside defender. He has a great build and length but lacks the quick twitch and vertical to be a true rim protector and shotblocker but he and Cousins could be on par with Gasol/Randolph or Vlade/Webber as an interior combo go. And his offense includes the ability to knock down midrange jumpers consistently which definitely benefits Cousins. Is he an ideal fit? No. But he is a pretty decent PF to pair with Cuz.
That being said I'd agree that the Kings best move might be to trade down or altogether trade out of the draft if they can get veteran pieces that fit well. Barring lottery luck that puts them in a position to grab Embiid of course.
That being said I'd agree that the Kings best move might be to trade down or altogether trade out of the draft if they can get veteran pieces that fit well. Barring lottery luck that puts them in a position to grab Embiid of course.
Keep in mind that at this point DX is not taking the drafting team into account - they just have prospects listed 1-30 and since the Kings currently are sitting 7th, they get the "7th" prospect on the chart. Later (after the lottery, I think) they will start to take into account team needs.
As far as Gordon, there are cases for him and cases against him. As Baja points out, he can't shoot. And there's a bit of question on position for him. I'd incline to call him a SF who can slot down to PF for matchup purposes if the other team goes small, but others would call him an undersized PF. If we take Gordon and Gay comes back, that could present a bit of a problem in finding Gordon minutes, so it's maybe not the greatest fit given our current positional personnel. At the same time, given the current skillset of our personnel, a perimeter defender who can lockdown a three (and I believe that Gordon can do that) fits our needs perfectly. And the last time we passed on an athletic SF who couldn't shoot but was a great defender at the #7 slot...his name was Kawhi Leonard.
So it's a tough call. If we jump into the top three, I think we go with BPA and we don't worry about it. At #7, there will be good players there, but practically every one of them has a caveat. In brief:
Exum: Probably gone at 7, difficult to gauge ability, combo guard not biggest need
Smart: Probably gone at 7, can't shoot, combo guard not biggest need
Randle: Not a great defender, duplicates Cousins' game too much
Vonleh: Good fit but defensive abilities unclear, maybe not athletic enough
Gordon: Can't shoot, poor playing time fit if Gay returns
Stauskas: Scoring 2-guard conflicts with McLemore, front office probably not ready to give up on Ben
McDermott: Probable defensive liability, bad fit if Gay returns
Harris: Good perimeter defender but again may conflict with McLemore
Cauley-Stein: Just what the doctor ordered, but losing PT in Kentucky, sickle-cell trait may limit effectiveness
Capela: Big question marks on readiness, may need to be stashed in Europe for a bit, but could be good fit
Ennis: Is he even better than what we have now at PG?
Anderson: Ultimate wildcard. Big skills with zero athleticism and little D, probably runs the offense but has to defend the PF/SF.
There's just no slam dunk in the mix by any means. But there are good players all around.
As far as Gordon, there are cases for him and cases against him. As Baja points out, he can't shoot. And there's a bit of question on position for him. I'd incline to call him a SF who can slot down to PF for matchup purposes if the other team goes small, but others would call him an undersized PF. If we take Gordon and Gay comes back, that could present a bit of a problem in finding Gordon minutes, so it's maybe not the greatest fit given our current positional personnel. At the same time, given the current skillset of our personnel, a perimeter defender who can lockdown a three (and I believe that Gordon can do that) fits our needs perfectly. And the last time we passed on an athletic SF who couldn't shoot but was a great defender at the #7 slot...his name was Kawhi Leonard.
So it's a tough call. If we jump into the top three, I think we go with BPA and we don't worry about it. At #7, there will be good players there, but practically every one of them has a caveat. In brief:
Exum: Probably gone at 7, difficult to gauge ability, combo guard not biggest need
Smart: Probably gone at 7, can't shoot, combo guard not biggest need
Randle: Not a great defender, duplicates Cousins' game too much
Vonleh: Good fit but defensive abilities unclear, maybe not athletic enough
Gordon: Can't shoot, poor playing time fit if Gay returns
Stauskas: Scoring 2-guard conflicts with McLemore, front office probably not ready to give up on Ben
McDermott: Probable defensive liability, bad fit if Gay returns
Harris: Good perimeter defender but again may conflict with McLemore
Cauley-Stein: Just what the doctor ordered, but losing PT in Kentucky, sickle-cell trait may limit effectiveness
Capela: Big question marks on readiness, may need to be stashed in Europe for a bit, but could be good fit
Ennis: Is he even better than what we have now at PG?
Anderson: Ultimate wildcard. Big skills with zero athleticism and little D, probably runs the offense but has to defend the PF/SF.
There's just no slam dunk in the mix by any means. But there are good players all around.
I think Vonleh will be a strong pick and roll defender as well as a solid post defender. The way taj gibson is, that is a good fit next to Cousins eve ben if he isn't a defender. On offense it would make us really good as Vonleh hits jump shots to 20ft so teams have to respect him. People are comparing him to Bosh.
who would be a lousy fit next to Cousins.
Look people, whoever is next to cousin will be a real strain to get 10 shots a game. I'm not even sure I wasn't them getting 10 shots a game. Petrie thinking was just stack up guys who could play some offense and somehow it works out. It doesn't. Having offense at the positon is just a waste. But you do want every single player on your team to be as elite as possible at whatever it is they do. Well what our PF is going to "do" is rebound and defend. Reggie Evans would have a good shot to be as valuable to us in that spot as Noel Vonleh. Not because Reggie Evans is > than Vonleh. But because his elite skills match up to what we need out the post, while his weaknesses correspond to things that are deemphasized at the spot.
Rem the great big man wingmen: Oakley, PJ Brown, Rambis, Green, Rodman, Haslem, Horry etc. etc. Their "offense" is just outlet offense. Closest you might get to a Vonleh was the Hakeem/Thorpe pairing for years. But Hakeem of course was the ultimate rim protector, so he could cover that.
Look people, whoever is next to cousin will be a real strain to get 10 shots a game. I'm not even sure I wasn't them getting 10 shots a game. Petrie thinking was just stack up guys who could play some offense and somehow it works out. It doesn't. Having offense at the positon is just a waste. But you do want every single player on your team to be as elite as possible at whatever it is they do. Well what our PF is going to "do" is rebound and defend. Reggie Evans would have a good shot to be as valuable to us in that spot as Noel Vonleh. Not because Reggie Evans is > than Vonleh. But because his elite skills match up to what we need out the post, while his weaknesses correspond to things that are deemphasized at the spot.
Rem the great big man wingmen: Oakley, PJ Brown, Rambis, Green, Rodman, Haslem, Horry etc. etc. Their "offense" is just outlet offense. Closest you might get to a Vonleh was the Hakeem/Thorpe pairing for years. But Hakeem of course was the ultimate rim protector, so he could cover that.
I do not think we pick BPA at #7. I have made this point in several different ways but I don't think BPA is knowable at that level. All the players have holes in their games at #7 and we don't know who will fill those holes over the years. The individual workout is crucial to help with the guessing process of what the future might bring. I have always wanted Cauley-Stein but he will offer no offense. There is no way of knowing what offense he will develop but the strong point is that he is a quick shot blocker who can follow his man to the three point line. He fits our needs to a T. Sickle cell trait is not sickle cell disease.
I may be seeing a different Vonleh than others. I see a guy who is very good man defender whose offense is limited. He has good size and will not be pushed around. I think he can become a very good player on offense and defense, that vaunted upside. If Vonleh is a gym rat, I would have no concerns about him. He won't be a shot blocker but then the same has been said of Cousins. He would make for a very tough defensive duo with Cuz. His offense could become very good as I doubt he has ever worked hard at it. That's a guess of course.
I agree totally with what brick wrote about the Vonleh/Evans comparison.
WCS is what he is and what he is is what we need.
I may be seeing a different Vonleh than others. I see a guy who is very good man defender whose offense is limited. He has good size and will not be pushed around. I think he can become a very good player on offense and defense, that vaunted upside. If Vonleh is a gym rat, I would have no concerns about him. He won't be a shot blocker but then the same has been said of Cousins. He would make for a very tough defensive duo with Cuz. His offense could become very good as I doubt he has ever worked hard at it. That's a guess of course.
I agree totally with what brick wrote about the Vonleh/Evans comparison.
WCS is what he is and what he is is what we need.
So I watched two Vonleh games. Here are my thoughts.
Offense:
* Can't post up
* Afraid to post up
* Knows people will be mad if he shoots jump shots, so does awkward 1 on 1 moves from the perimeter, during which he has total tunnel vision and sucks all the flow out of Indiana's offense. Results are never good.
Defense
*Big body in paint, so he can defend poor post up players and intimidate guards IF he's ever in position
*Horrible sense of where he should be on defense, rarely in position to affect a play
*Won't guard pick and roll, and probably too slow anyway.
Other
* Very good defensive rebounder.
* Very young
* Frequently benched because of bad defense.
If his jumper is for real--his FT% is >70--then I can see him as a good rebounding stretch four who can't be abused in the post. Otherwise, this guy should sit on the bench until he learns defense. Does he care about being a good defender? Is he coachable? If so, does he have a mental faculty, desire, and athleticism to make those defensive strides?
Offense:
* Can't post up
* Afraid to post up
* Knows people will be mad if he shoots jump shots, so does awkward 1 on 1 moves from the perimeter, during which he has total tunnel vision and sucks all the flow out of Indiana's offense. Results are never good.
Defense
*Big body in paint, so he can defend poor post up players and intimidate guards IF he's ever in position
*Horrible sense of where he should be on defense, rarely in position to affect a play
*Won't guard pick and roll, and probably too slow anyway.
Other
* Very good defensive rebounder.
* Very young
* Frequently benched because of bad defense.
If his jumper is for real--his FT% is >70--then I can see him as a good rebounding stretch four who can't be abused in the post. Otherwise, this guy should sit on the bench until he learns defense. Does he care about being a good defender? Is he coachable? If so, does he have a mental faculty, desire, and athleticism to make those defensive strides?
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Well, we heard from DA after the Gay trade that he wanted to go in the wait and see mode for exactly the reason you mention - continuity. I'm with you, I'd love to have some continuity. Just my guess, but I don't see the draft as the only thing DA does this summer. I think there's another batch of change in the summer before they really settle in to Year 2. Just a guess though...
Along the lines of continuity, I'd like to know what offense Malone wants to run in the future. It seems like he has a number of plays that he runs, as much to get this team out of iso mode as to make baskets. What does Malone envision on the floor? It almost seems as if he's been willing to tolerate some things on the offensive end of the floor in order to get what he wants on the defensive end. For example, bringing the ball up the floor seems like it's more like "taking turns" by whoever has the ball in his hands, rather than a more intelligent plan of action. Then there's the Cousins point guard duties. Lastly, there is too much iso forcing of the ball. If they want to win, those things should change in Year 2.
Along the lines of continuity, I'd like to know what offense Malone wants to run in the future. It seems like he has a number of plays that he runs, as much to get this team out of iso mode as to make baskets. What does Malone envision on the floor? It almost seems as if he's been willing to tolerate some things on the offensive end of the floor in order to get what he wants on the defensive end. For example, bringing the ball up the floor seems like it's more like "taking turns" by whoever has the ball in his hands, rather than a more intelligent plan of action. Then there's the Cousins point guard duties. Lastly, there is too much iso forcing of the ball. If they want to win, those things should change in Year 2.
brick,
cousins is a good man defender. rudy is adequate not great. if vonleh is a good man defender, thats the front court covered. if ray is starting, the defense steps up in the backcourt. the only chink in the armor would be ben, who is atrocious. the other teams guards break down the d and get into the paint collapsing our D. that's where the issue lies.. ben and IT are horrible. the other teams guards have a field day waltzing into the paint and the only really competent defensive player is cuz who has to cover for their mistakes.
cousins is a good man defender. rudy is adequate not great. if vonleh is a good man defender, thats the front court covered. if ray is starting, the defense steps up in the backcourt. the only chink in the armor would be ben, who is atrocious. the other teams guards break down the d and get into the paint collapsing our D. that's where the issue lies.. ben and IT are horrible. the other teams guards have a field day waltzing into the paint and the only really competent defensive player is cuz who has to cover for their mistakes.
If Gay comes back, all you have for Gordon is 14 backup minutes. And as for shooting Kawhi showed nice FT shooting, which is usually much better indicator of shooting mechanics, touch and consistency: .726 and .759 for two seasons, plus upward trends in both FT% and 3pt%. I bet, you wouldn't find any player in the history of NBA, who went from shooting under .500 from FT line in college to averaging at least .333 on 2 3pt shots per game in NBA. I guess, guy like Gordon who is certainly smart and hard-working might as well be the one to defy the odds, but those are not promising. But my main issue with Gordon is that he didn't look that good playing SF in college, while being pretty impressive, when moved to PF after Ashley's injury.
At this point best scenario appears to be one similar to Jimmer draft: trade down, nabbing WCS in the process.
P.S. McDermott doesn't belong in the middle of the lottery.
At this point best scenario appears to be one similar to Jimmer draft: trade down, nabbing WCS in the process.
P.S. McDermott doesn't belong in the middle of the lottery.