Like Sam Cooke said "Change Gone Come"

[Entity]

Maybe Artest being a nut case would be the final straw that breaks the back for a whole lot of people who aren't sold on him being in a Kings uniform, too, Entity. The Maloofs have to start winning back fans, including those who were very disappointed about Webber's FIVE GAME suspension for violating the drug policy. How do you think those people - and there are a number of them - are going to feel about a certifiable nut case?

Well not having a nut case has gotten us exactly 0 championships. So why not take the chance. kings fans will always ***ch about something refs, arena, coach........ect. So this will just be the new reason to vent except with it come defense + scoring and rebounding. Basically we need a change in both attitude and personell. Id be willing to bet Ron will never go into the stands and beat up fans again. Aside from that incident what else has he done that nobody else has. Look at Rasheed Wallace the same was said about him now he has a championship and is playing for another while we suffer a long off season.

 

[thesanityannex]

Maybe Artest being a nut case would be the final straw that breaks the back for a whole lot of people who aren't sold on him being in a Kings uniform, too, Entity. The Maloofs have to start winning back fans, including those who were very disappointed about Webber's FIVE GAME suspension for violating the drug policy. How do you think those people - and there are a number of them - are going to feel about a certifiable nut case?

I think they will feel fine, as long as the teams is winning

 

[SoupIsGood]

Any suggestions?

Throw a cup at him.

 

[Entity]

yeah its not like every fan would not like it. No matter who we get or who we have at this very moment fans will be split. You have seen it with Webber and Peja. So what makes you think that the large majority would not accept it. Maybe the one that don't like Artest are in the minority either way it doesn't matter. Fans don't make the teams GM's and Owner's do.

 

[Bricklayer]

I just don't see who the Lakers offer to the Pacers to pry Artest out of a Pacer uniform? Odom would be the only one that I can think of, but I just don't see his game fitting in that well with JO'Neal, not to mention Odom really isn't a SF, but a PF with a SF's game. Still, he doesn't play SF defense, and unless Jermaine has changed his tune about playing C, I don't see Odom as an attractive commodity in an Artest swap. At that point, who else is there on the Lakers' roster? I'm hoping that doesn't happen.

Mm..I think Odom is very much a SF being played out of position as a PF. He's not a tough inside guy at all, but really much more of a multifaceted perimeter slasher that has played OG in his career. I'm not sure whether he has the toughness Indiana would be looking for, but if they were going to move Ron, makes sense that Odom would be about the level of guy they'd get back.

 

[kingsofnba]

i think the quickest way to change a "soft" team is to change the coach... i think the coaches give the kings their soft persona... do you think that larry brown or greg poppivich would stand there and watch their players give up layup after layup without chewing their players out... yet rick adelman just crosses his arms and watches as the opponets uses the kings for layup drills...

as evident by the dallas mavericks trying to become a better defensive team under don nelson (once mark cuban tried to stress defense last year), dallas couldn't improve defensively until a new head coach was named in avery johnson...

morale of the story being: having the same coach trying to convey a brand new message of "defense" after years of not stressing defense at all, the players will not respond or take it seriously (see don nelson)... as the saying goes, a tiger can't change his stipes, and a coach can't be an offensive coach and all of the sudden change into a defensive wizard just because the owners want him to be (see don nelaon)...

If the maloofs and petrie are serious about making defense a priority, then they need a new coach who makes defense his priority...if the kings could get a coach that stresses defense and hard fouls, i think they can turn this soft lable around very quicly...

 

[VF21]

Entity - You can feel free to rationalize to your heart's content. We do not and will not see this the same way. If he comes here it will be because Geoff Petrie thinks he is salvageable. Until and unless that happens, I'm going to assume otherwise.

 

[VF21]

Throw a cup at him.

Does it have to be beer or do you think water might work as well? The beer I drink at Arco is $10 a pop...

 

[Bricklayer]

Of course once again -- only two years ago we were one of the best defensive teams in the NBA. Same coach.

Its the personnel. I've said before, will say again, Larry Brown, Gregg Popovich, Pat Riely, never have to coach such soft players. They bring players that match their own focus, or move to/take over teams stacked with those players.

Coaches always get blamed for front office foulups, but how you can assemble a complete team of undersized softies and then expect ANYBODY to make it into a good defensive team is beyond me. All of our shotblocking is gone. Our defensive captain is gone. Bobby is not what he once was. Our holdovers are some of the softest in the league at their positions. Our SG and PF replacements are badly undersized. I mean come on. On paper, let alone on the court, we simply have one of the worst defensive teams in the league. And that's nto Rick's fault.

 

[AriesMar27]

sign and trade mobley for artest and jones..... but honestly.... what would we do about shot blocking? we know we need it, but who is out there that we can get? and we cant have an all defensive bench either.... the minute the starters have an off-nightwe are doomed.... bringing in skinner and whomever we add to the team....

 

[foretaz]

sign and trade mobley for artest and jones..... but honestly.... what would we do about shot blocking? we know we need it, but who is out there that we can get? and we cant have an all defensive bench either.... the minute the starters have an off-nightwe are doomed.... bringing in skinner and whomever we add to the team....

mobley for artest and jones, huh? hmmmm....sure we cant throw in jo for kenny thomas while we are at it? lol...cmmmmmmmmmooon.....

 

[VF21]

Hey, foretaz. Sorry but you're not allowed to object to us (bleeping) you again. It worked with Brad, didn't it?

Here's the thing. Petrie has pictures of certain people high up within the Pacers organization. I can't tell you whom because even the indication the photos exist would be shattering to them... Let's just say these photos involve farm animals and leave it at that, okay?

Petrie promised not to use them and that's how we got Brad. Unfortunately for the Pacers, someone else has now acquired the pictures - and no, I'm not going to tell you where I hid them - so the whole nightmare is about to begin again.



Your only chance is to get me similar pictures of Kevin McHale and then I'll give you the pictures of ... the Pacers people.

 

[Packt]

i think the quickest way to change a "soft" team is to change the coach... i think the coaches give the kings their soft persona... do you think that larry brown or greg poppivich would stand there and watch their players give up layup after layup without chewing their players out... yet rick adelman just crosses his arms and watches as the opponets uses the kings for layup drills...

as evident by the dallas mavericks trying to become a better defensive team under don nelson (once mark cuban tried to stress defense last year), dallas couldn't improve defensively until a new head coach was named in avery johnson...

morale of the story being: having the same coach trying to convey a brand new message of "defense" after years of not stressing defense at all, the players will not respond or take it seriously (see don nelson)... as the saying goes, a tiger can't change his stipes, and a coach can't be an offensive coach and all of the sudden change into a defensive wizard just because the owners want him to be (see don nelaon)...

If the maloofs and petrie are serious about making defense a priority, then they need a new coach who makes defense his priority...if the kings could get a coach that stresses defense and hard fouls, i think they can turn this soft lable around very quicly...

I don't disagree with you, but one fact you're not taking into account is that Nelson was coach and GM.

If Petrie and the Maloofs really want defense next year, they'll have to seriously look into bringing in more defensive minded players. There's no way this team as is will make much of an improvement defensively.

 

[foretaz]

Hey, foretaz. Sorry but you're not allowed to object to us (bleeping) you again. It worked with Brad, didn't it?

Here's the thing. Petrie has pictures of certain people high up within the Pacers organization. I can't tell you whom because even the indication the photos exist would be shattering to them... Let's just say these photos involve farm animals and leave it at that, okay?

Petrie promised not to use them and that's how we got Brad. Unfortunately for the Pacers, someone else has now acquired the pictures - and no, I'm not going to tell you where I hid them - so the whole nightmare is about to begin again.



Your only chance is to get me similar pictures of Kevin McHale and then I'll give you the pictures of ... the Pacers people.

hell...i expect to see a pork job on another teams website....especially where artest is concerned....and frankly peja for artest or mobley for artest would be a pretty good pork job any way u look at it....

but hell....this guy didnt stop there....lol...he wants to throw in jones too...im assuming hes talking fred jones....but either jones is the same result....that would be even worse than the brad miller fiasco....

hell....we might as well be the sacramento farm team if we are gonna do that....at least get some recognition and benefit for providing with u players at basically no cost...

 

[Bricklayer]

hell...i expect to see a pork job on another teams website....especially where artest is concerned....and frankly peja for artest or mobley for artest would be a pretty good pork job any way u look at it....

but hell....this guy didnt stop there....lol...he wants to throw in jones too...im assuming hes talking fred jones....but either jones is the same result....that would be even worse than the brad miller fiasco....

hell....we might as well be the sacramento farm team if we are gonna do that....at least get some recognition and benefit for providing with u players at basically no cost...

Hey buddy, in case you hadn't heard Peja is a max player -- you should be HONORED and excited to get your hands on him for a comparative no-name like Artest.

 

[foretaz]

Hey buddy, in case you hadn't heard Peja is a max player -- you should be HONORED and excited to get your hands on him for a comparative no-name like Artest.

yea...and u know what? i gotta problem with the guy that typed that bs about peja being a max player....he cost me a monitor....as mine is now covered with the soda that i had in my mouth when i read that....

i will tell u this....if u guys give peja the max....then uve got even bigger problems....

cause that would have to have meant either petrie has left....or had a lobotomy...either way...ur doomed....

 

[VF21]

hell....we might as well be the sacramento farm team if we are gonna do that....at least get some recognition and benefit for providing with u players at basically no cost...

Uh oh. You didn't get the memo yet?

Boy, that is so embarrassing. Someone's gonna pay for that mistake...

Um, until you hear otherwise, pay NO attention to the cartons of uniforms sitting on the loading dock that have Property of the Sacramento Kings on the back. It's just ... well... hmmm... it's a typo! Yeah, that's what it is. A typo!!!

 

[VF21]

yea...and u know what? i gotta problem with the guy that typed that bs about peja being a max player....he cost me a monitor....as mine is now covered with the soda that i had in my mouth when i read that....

We have a code for that:

LSHISMDOMN...

 

[foretaz]

Uh oh. You didn't get the memo yet?

Boy, that is so embarrassing. Someone's gonna pay for that mistake...

Um, until you hear otherwise, pay NO attention to the cartons of uniforms sitting on the loading dock that have Property of the Sacramento Kings on the back. It's just ... well... hmmm... it's a typo! Yeah, that's what it is. A typo!!!

oh thats what these green things are....i was wondering what they were and where they came from....


seriously....on another note....i see all this talk on here about artest...which i understand...sort of...however what im really at a bit of a loss for is this...with all the defense and intensity talk...and with the fact u guys need a sg...not really a sf....im really kinda surprised i dont see any talk regarding stephen jackson....he really seems to fit ur needs to the t.....artest is a sf...not a sg....make no mistake about that....

but jack is a sg....whose intensity level is unbelievably high....hes a great defender....hes got great size....and hes able to shoot from the outside as well as get his own shot off the dribble....seems hes just right for u guys....especially since u need a 2 and not a 3....now...that being said....we arent shopping him....but i just find it ironic that u have needs as u do....people are obviously aware of the pacers with the miller deal as well as wanting artest....for something so obvious, why isnt it mentioned?

 

[VF21]

Hmmmm. I don't know... perhaps it's because we're really after Jackson and we NEVER post our real trade scenarios.

Seriously, I think some people are convinced the Pacers are going to shop Artest because he was such a bad boy. And, somewhat ironically, they seem to think he'll be just fine here. I don't even pretend to follow the logic...

VF21 nonchanlantly scurries off to realGM to check on Stephen Jackson...

 

[VF21]

...sigh...

I keep forgetting. We have no one to trade unless we go high ticket items. I hope Petrie has a LOT of rabbits around, because he's gonna have to pull quite a few of them out of his hat.

 

[foretaz]

Hmmmm. I don't know... perhaps it's because we're really after Jackson and we NEVER post our real trade scenarios.

Seriously, I think some people are convinced the Pacers are going to shop Artest because he was such a bad boy. And, somewhat ironically, they seem to think he'll be just fine here. I don't even pretend to follow the logic...

VF21 nonchanlantly scurries off to realGM to check on Stephen Jackson...

i hate to be the bearer of bad news.....but artest wont end up in sacramento....and it has nothing to do with him being traded and everything to do with sacramento.....they had their chance to get him last year...and they passed...after what has happened this year...they feel vindicated that they didnt take him, for what they were concerned about did indeed happen....artest may be a fit some places...but sacramento aint one of em....petrie and the maloofs will never ever take him...mark my words...

 

[4cwebb]

Mm..I think Odom is very much a SF being played out of position as a PF. He's not a tough inside guy at all, but really much more of a multifaceted perimeter slasher that has played OG in his career. I'm not sure whether he has the toughness Indiana would be looking for, but if they were going to move Ron, makes sense that Odom would be about the level of guy they'd get back.

Agreed -- my comments were unclear. Odom's game is much better suited to being a SF, but on that Pacer team, I just don't see it adding to more success for the Pacers to have a guy chasing around SFs on defense that are much quicker. That will put much more pressure on the Pacers interior defenders than they are used to with Artest on the floor, imho, which would be a bad thing for the Pacers, which is why a swap of Odom and Artest at this point would confuse me. This all assumes that Ron can make a peaceful return to the Pacers, of course. If the Pacers think he can't, than my reasoning is out the window, and getting a talent like Odom back for trading a potential cancer like Artest could be viewed as a solid trade.

 

[4cwebb]

Of course once again -- only two years ago we were one of the best defensive teams in the NBA. Same coach.

Its the personnel. I've said before, will say again, Larry Brown, Gregg Popovich, Pat Riely, never have to coach such soft players. They bring players that match their own focus, or move to/take over teams stacked with those players.

Coaches always get blamed for front office foulups, but how you can assemble a complete team of undersized softies and then expect ANYBODY to make it into a good defensive team is beyond me. All of our shotblocking is gone. Our defensive captain is gone. Bobby is not what he once was. Our holdovers are some of the softest in the league at their positions. Our SG and PF replacements are badly undersized. I mean come on. On paper, let alone on the court, we simply have one of the worst defensive teams in the league. And that's nto Rick's fault.

Spot on. And, the team that lead the league is field goal percentage had on the floor for long periods of time Bibby and Peja. What the Kings no longer have is a guy like Keon Clark off the bench to patrol the paint, and a guy like JJax coming off the bench at the SG/SF spot to play in your face defense when the starters get a break. Combine that with Webb's injury and Vlade's aging, and the Kings were going to have a very difficult time living up to that standard in 2004, and it showed. That team was successful b/c of an explosive offense, not b/c it was playing good defense.

 

[loopymitch]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Artest here? I seem to be in the minority. I don't care how good he is, we don't need a nutcase in Sac, unless of course as previously stated it wins us a championship but there'd be no guarantees. If nutcases win us rings bring on the whole psych. ward, heck the whole hospital.

 

[SoupIsGood]

I'd consider the Artest-for-Cat trade.

 

[Bricklayer]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Artest here? I seem to be in the minority. I don't care how good he is, we don't need a nutcase in Sac, unless of course as previously stated it wins us a championship but there'd be no guarantees. If nutcases win us rings bring on the whole psych. ward, heck the whole hospital.

The nutcase part is the problem -- such a risk. He could easily sink the Pacers again next year, or us, or whoever has him.

But if I knew 100% beforehand that he WASN'T going to sink us? Absolutely I want him here. Sacto has nice-guyed itself right into pussyhood at his point -- I think if I was playing against us I'd just walk right over in pregame warmups and pop one of our guys on the nose as a greeting, and have absolutely no fear of retalitation whatsoever. In fact the impression you get is that he'd probably miss the game and be spotted in the stands with his mommy holding a hankie to his bloody nose. That's got to end. And if it takes a slightly psycho thug to do it, so be it. There is a significant testosterone element to male professional contact sports, and we are severely lacking. So at this point my ONLY real objection to Artest is the fact I don't trust him to be there for us if we need him (nor does anyone -- only reason he's on the market). Was different when we had a championship caliber team's chemsitry/cohesiveness to consider. Now we're just one of those teams trying to get better and patch our glaring weaknesses.

P.S. It should be noted that he does not "fit our offense" either, to which I am rapidly saying "so the hell what?" The offense is nice. But its never won anything. And talent is talent and as we start rebuilding the new offense should be built around it, not the other way around. Vlade and Webb made the Princeton work so beautifully. Neither guy is here anymore. so if you have to tweak it for our new players, so be it.

 

[SoupIsGood]

If Bird trades Artest, it will be for one of two reasons, in my opinion.

1) Someone has offered him similar talent in return for Artest (a top 20 or so player)

or

2) Bird is 100% sure he is a lost cause.

Now, if he is traded to the Kings, unless Mike or Brad happen to be in the deal, it is going to be option #2.

Do you guys really want that?

 

[Bricklayer]

If Bird trades Artest, it will be for one of two reasons, in my opinion.

1) Someone has offered him similar talent in return for Artest (a top 20 or so player)

or

2) Bird is 100% sure he is a lost cause.

Now, if he is traded to the Kings, unless Mike or Brad happen to be in the deal, it is going to be option #2.

Do you guys really want that?

Frankly, Peja has always been the King that made the most sense for the Pacers, even moreso now with Reggie gone. His deficiencies are very real, but his game may be more similar to Reggie than any other NBAer right now, and of course like Reggie he's a shootist. With the old man gone, would seem like a perfect piece to open up the middle for Jermaine and replace Ron if he were to be traded. Might not even have to change the sets that much. Of course as the anti-Reggie in terms of clutchness and playoff play, couldn't replace everything, but would seem to be the King that made the most sense (not to mention the Bird factor). Which is of course why the rumor has been so damned persistent for the past year or so.

P.S. As an aside, the Artest possibilkities are not so stark -- all depends on risk assessment and averseness. A year ago the Pacers were poised to become the next power in the East. Now Artest's meltdown cost them a year, and Reggie's last chance, and even if Bird concluded that Ron PROBABLY wouldn't melt down again, even that "but its still possible" possibility might be too much risk for an Indiana team not wanting to blow another opportunity. Its also true that the risk in Indiana may not be the same as the risk in Sacto (or wherever) etc. etc. (could go either way).

 

[whozit]

This is slightly off the recent theme of the thread, but what the heck ....


A nice change would be a peace offering to the disgruntled masses of paying customers. (slight exageration) You have fans with the down payments due on the first, give them hope. If there are picks available to be bought, buy it. If you even considered paying 10 million on top of the 5 you already owed, you can afford it. In the recent years, the owners have gone cheap in appearances. (not sure how you can be cheap while paying luxery taxes) The cool 3 million paid could buy back some of the early image of owners who wanted to win at any cost, not just owners looking to cut costs. It is easier to take the pain of the increases if Management is willing to absorb some also.

.... besides Petrie said they couldn't get everything from one pick, so why not try from two.


..... now back to reality and other regular programming