lebron or kobe which one?

[Jerryaki]

I try to teach him to be gracious no matter what the outcome. Which makes me a hypocrite if anything. I want to explode when they lose, but I keep it to myself and I tell him to go and shake hands.

haha, that is the mark of a true parent.

bringing it back to bball, i often here the phrase 'leaving it all on the court" which to me means you play your hardest and when the game is over, it's over. you did what you could, shake hands, walk away. i think that it's fine to play the game that way.

but maybe that ultra-hyper-competitive-killer-instinct-all-else-be-damned mentality that the jordans of the league have is what makes for the truly great player?

 

[Bricklayer]

Like I said, I try to teach him to be gracious no matter what the outcome. Which makes me a hypocrite if anything. I want to explode when they lose, but I keep it to myself and I tell him to go and shake hands.

The incident last year was the biggest game of his life so far. I'll let you know what happens in the playoffs this year.

Teach him to kick them in the nads if things don't go his way -- its never too early to start learning the fine art of intimidation.

 

[Bricklayer]

Could a mod change my vote to LeBron? Not a big deal, just don't wanna support Kobe in any way.

I did this BTW, just in case another mod comes along. For the sake of their integrity I prefer not to touch polls, but since you claimed this was a mistaken click I made an exception.

 

[bozzwell]

haha, that is the mark of a true parent.

bringing it back to bball, i often here the phrase 'leaving it all on the court" which to me means you play your hardest and when the game is over, it's over. you did what you could, shake hands, walk away. i think that it's fine to play the game that way.

but maybe that ultra-hyper-competitive-killer-instinct-all-else-be-damned mentality that the jordans of the league have is what makes for the truly great player?

I am sure that's the key ingredient. You still need tonnes of talent and some luck.

 

[bozzwell]

Teach him to kick them in the nads if things don't go his way -- its never too early to start learning the fine art of intimidation.

We're still working on mind games before he's ready to graduate onto the physical part.

 

[Bricklayer]

We're still working on mind games before he's ready to graduate onto the physical part.

Well look, the two play into each other. You kick the guy in the nads the first time, then the next time all you have to do is raise your foot and he flinches away. Secondly, if you really make it count, then he is intrinsically less likely to want to repeat whatever activity it was that led to the initial kicking (i.e. beating you). So its just one little burst of physical for all kinds of long term mental game advantages. Time to teach the tyke how to really get ahead in the world.

 

[bozzwell]

Well look, the two play into each other. You kick the guy in the nads the first time, then the next time all you have to do is raise your foot and he flinches away. Secondly, if you really make it count, then he is intrinsically less likely to want to repeat whatever activity it was that led to the initial kicking (i.e. beating you). So its just one little burst of physical for all kinds of long term mental game advantages. Time to teach the tyke how to really get ahead in the world.

He's a Bulls fun, but I think he still reads KF.com just to keep the tabs on me, so let's make this clear:

Mr Bricklayer thought my kid how to kick people in the nads, not me!

 

[Bricklayer]

He's a Bulls fun, but I think he still reads KF.com just to keep the tabs on me, so let's make this clear:

Mr Bricklayer thought my kid how to kick people in the nads, not me!

Better be careful there bozz, or when the kid is up there on the podium thanking everybody who helped him get to the top he's going to be thanking Bricklayer rather than dear ole dad.

Next up: The Art of the Accidental Elbow -- Placement, Power and Timing

 

[kennadog]

Next up: The Art of the Accidental Elbow -- Placement, Power and Timing

Your training video could be the Kobe elbow to Bibby nose. (Yes, it still ticks me off, when I see it. So I generally avoid it.)

 

[tyrant]

2 years ago everyone talked about how lebron was playing with crap. he had no help. this season he got mo williams and west together. both are good players. they won 66 freaking games, became the best defensive team in the leauge, lebron was mvp, brown was coach of the year, mo williams put up a strong 18ppg, west put up close to 14, they swept through the first 2 rounds. now all of a sudden the cavs are back to worthless because they lost to orlando in 6? and lebron is once again the guy with no help? lebron has a good supporting cast. thats what everyone has been talking about alllllllllllllllllllllllllll YEAR LONG!! they lost because orlando is better than we all thought they were. alot better! credit them.

im not in favor of saying "put him in his shoes" its schematics. all i know is that kobe has taken his team farther.

 

[Bricklayer]

im not in favor of saying "put him in his shoes" its schematics. all i know is that kobe has taken his team farther.

I would not be in favor of doing that either if I was trying to argue for Kobe.

 

[bigbadred00]

2 years ago everyone talked about how lebron was playing with crap. he had no help. this season he got mo williams and west together. both are good players. they won 66 freaking games, became the best defensive team in the leauge, lebron was mvp, brown was coach of the year, mo williams put up a strong 18ppg, west put up close to 14, they swept through the first 2 rounds. now all of a sudden the cavs are back to worthless because they lost to orlando in 6? and lebron is once again the guy with no help? lebron has a good supporting cast. thats what everyone has been talking about alllllllllllllllllllllllllll YEAR LONG!! they lost because orlando is better than we all thought they were. alot better! credit them.

im not in favor of saying "put him in his shoes" its schematics. all i know is that kobe has taken his team farther.

They also overacheived. They also slammed Detroit who was easily the worst team in the playoffs and didn't care all that much. Then they played Atlanta who on top of being overmatched, was very injured during the series. It is easily seen that the top 3 in the East were head and shoulders better than the 4-8 of the East. It is also seen that the 4-8 in the West were considerably better than the 4-8 in the East, although 1-3 are probably better than the 1-3 in the West as a whole.

Lebron still has talent issues on his team. Mo Williams is easily the worst #2 of any of the teams that were in the conference finals. Kobe has Gasol. Dwight has Shard. Melo or Billups are much better than Mo whoever you consider 2nd best. Mo is still better than what he had but he still doesn't have much. This was shown constantly against the other top teams in the league where the Cavs struggled. Against the marginal teams it may be argued that the Cavs were a tougher matchup against marginal teams than the Lakers, Magic, etc. but against good teams who can either slow down LBJ or match his production it hasn't been as much of an issue.

I don't know how you can argue that Gasol, Bynum, Odom, etc. when healthy are easily better than Mo Williams. Shard, Hedo, Nelson (when healthy), are better than Mo Williams. LBJ is probably better than any player left in the league but his team still has it's fault and has been exposed against certain teams (Boston, LA and Orlando). With that being said they are still a good team, but LBJ just like the rest of us don't care about being just good--he wants to win titles. In order to do so I still think Cleveland is going to have to bring in a better #2. Mo isn't a bad #3 or #4 option--but as a definitive #2 he was exposed during the playoffs and especially during the Cavs series. Mo was the same player he was on Milwaukee who traded him basically for scraps. Do you think the Bucks would have easily given him up (I know his backup is also very good) if he was that great.

We also must remember Kobe is 30. He's also had his bumps. He played on a team without much talent and all he could do was garner a couple of first round exits. LBJ has been to the 2nd round and beyond I believe the last 4 seasons with and without great talent around him. Even made it to the finals with Z being his 2nd best player. Kobe couldn't get to the finals without Shaq who many consider to be the best player of the post-Jordan era or Gasol who was basically stolen from Memphis for 10 cents on the dollar. So to think that Kobe is better than that it also false. Kobe didn't make the playoffs either one season (the season after they drafted Bynum) and has had issues with talent. With Odom and Butler--Butler who is now an all-star for Washington--he couldn't do anything either in the playoffs.

 

[tyrant]

lets say they were overrated. i like that alot better than overachieved. so the cavs were extremely overrated, they were never a championship team because according to you they were head and shoulders better than only the 4-8 seeds in the east. the lakers won a title with an old ron harper, fisher, horry, fox, grant, "mad dog" madsen, samaki walker, ac green, etc. are you kidding me? it was just kobe and shaq. these role players made shots when they were open which is what cleveland did all season long.

 

[bigbadred00]

lets say they were overrated. i like that alot better than overachieved. so the cavs were extremely overrated, they were never a championship team because according to you they were head and shoulders better than only the 4-8 seeds in the east. the lakers won a title with an old ron harper, fisher, horry, fox, grant, "mad dog" madsen, samaki walker, ac green, etc. are you kidding me? it was just kobe and shaq. these role players made shots when they were open which is what cleveland did all season long.

I'm really not following your logic. They had LBJ who is overpowering against most teams. They can not matchup with him. They were like 70-9 against every team but Orlando, Boston and LA this year who they were a combined 5-10 against. Don't you see this as an issue?

And Shaq and Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LBJ + Mo williams. Isn't this obvious. Put Shaq in his prime and LBJ and those scrubs and I'm pretty sure you have yourselves a couple of titles. If LBJ had another star or even another quality post player, they would have probably been fine. Other than himself, Mo under performed vs the Magic, Z was terrible, AV was himself who is basically an offensive 0, Delonte was solid but never amazing. Their bench was almost non-existant which wasn't helped by JJ Hickson being out (he played extremely well during the regular season matchups vs the Magic) as well as Wally being hurt. Obviously the Lakers role players weren't that great but when you have arguably a top 5 center--maybe top 3 center, maybe GOAT center all time along with Kobe who is a top 10 to top 4 wing all time--it doesn't matter that much. Now you have LBJ--there isn't one guy on the Cavs who you could call top 25 at his position all time e/c LBJ who might be a top 5 wing all time already. Maybe Ben Wallace but he was hurt and didn't play that much.

With respect to the other teams left. Billups and Melo. Melo might eventually be a top 15 wing all time, Billups a top 15 PG. Kobe and Pau. Pau might be a top 25 PF when it is all said and done, maybe higher. Dwight might be a top 10, maybe top 5 center if his offensive game improves. Shard, Hedo, Pietrus, Nelson aren't ever going to be top 25 players at their respect positions all time but are probably going to be higher than Mo ever will be.

 

[kingsnation]

all i know is that Shaq/Phil has helped kobe take his team farther.

Fixed.

 

[6th]

Currently a 39-6 vote. I'd call that a bit lopsided.

 

[AriesMar27]

the cavs without lebron are the clippers of the east. the 4th qtr of game 5 against the magic proved that. what lebron had to do to win that game was amazing. kobe couldnt do that, ever.... lebron led his team, put every single scrub on his back to win that game. delonte west was the player that cost the cavs that series....

in games 1, 3 &4 west did 2 things horribly, defend the pick 'n roll and 3pt shooting. he had several wide open corner threes at the end of each of those games and he missed all of them. he also couldnt stay in front of hedo. he would go under the pick and hedo was basically wide open between the space and the height differential he might as well be by himself. though lebron should have been guarding hedo instead of rafer. west shouldve been on rafer, mo would be on lee and lebron would guard hedo. but no....

lebron is the best player in the nba and its not even close. you put lebron on the nuggets instead of melo and they wouldve swept the lakers....

 

[kingsnation]

delonte west was the player that cost the cavs that series....

in games 1, 3 &4 west did 2 things horribly, defend the pick 'n roll and 3pt shooting. he had several wide open corner threes at the end of each of those games and he missed all of them. he also couldnt stay in front of hedo. he would go under the pick and hedo was basically wide open between the space and the height differential he might as well be by himself.

In all fairness to Delonte, his matchup with Hedo falls on Mike Brown not himself.

 

[mac]

Based purely on age, definitely Lebron. I think that's ultimately the strongest argument here, as much as I think Kobe Bryant is an awesome basketball player. They're all really dang good and I don't care who can take their team where, but Lebron has many years ahead of him.

 

[Semi]

lets say they were overrated. i like that alot better than overachieved. so the cavs were extremely overrated, they were never a championship team because according to you they were head and shoulders better than only the 4-8 seeds in the east. the lakers won a title with an old ron harper, fisher, horry, fox, grant, "mad dog" madsen, samaki walker, ac green, etc. are you kidding me? it was just kobe and shaq. these role players made shots when they were open which is what cleveland did all season long.

Give Lebron Shaq and I'm sure the supporting cast would be able to pick up the rest of the slack(which wouldn't be much).

Give me Lebron every single time. He is actually a teammate, something Kobe has never been.

 

[Gargamel]

lebron is the best player in the nba and its not even close. you put lebron on the nuggets instead of melo and they wouldve swept the lakers....

I thought the Nuggs were supposed to beat the Lakes as it was.

 

[kennadog]

This could be a a very, very long thread.

 

[VF21]

Nah, eventually everyone but Laker fans will lose interest...