Kreidler: Geoff Petrie says ...

[kingsfannPDX]

Peja was the unknown steal of the draft..but then again that was one hell of a draft. Peja was picked at #14. But may not have even been the best player still ont he board. Steve Nash was #15. Jermaine O'Neal #17. Big Z #20.

so we could've had an NBA MVP and instead we got peja!?! wow! off with petrie's head. well i guess even the best GM's(not saying petrie is one) make bad draft choices. dumars not drafting dwayne wade might be up there with sam bowie.

 

[nbrans]

so we could've had an NBA MVP and instead we got peja!?! wow! off with petrie's head. well i guess even the best GM's(not saying petrie is one) make bad draft choices. dumars not drafting dwayne wade might be up there with sam bowie.

Again, nine years later it's apparent that Steve Nash is a good player. But he sucked two years with Phoenix and two years with Dallas before he panned out. I don't quite think you can look at Steve Nash and consider it a good draft pick for Phoenix.

P.S. (And never mind the fact that Peja was a crucial part of the Kings' golden era, even if he's currently struggling)

 

[cfechter]

...

Have I mentioned recently that we may have the wrong guy in charge?

Let me translate "patience" as argued for by Mr. Petrie:

"Patience" is having by far the two most logical pieces to be swapped out be Petrie's favorite coach and pet player. Hence any excuse not to do anything. Patience is being such an emotional automaton that he can not feel the life being sucked out of the fanbase, does not understand the need for hope. Patience is having FAR too much job security and carte blanche, and being able to stare impassively at the mess you yourself have created without ever feeling the barest lick of flame under your own butt spurring you to do something about it.

And "patience" most of all is an utter load of bull coming from a man who tore the heart and soul from this team piece by piece over a 12 month period just last year, and NOW is going to claim that his 13-19 bastard child of a brainfart cannot be tinkered with?

Brick, I undestand and appreciate your emotion but really, we have to trust in Petrie here. Just look at his track record. When he first got here in 94, the kings hadn't done anything since their first year in Sacramento. He went out, drafter Brian Grant and Michael Smith, brought a few guys in, and we were competitive for a few years.

When that squad tanked in 1998, he went out, brought more guys in then we had our great run.

Give Petrie time. He's one of those unique sports executives that seems to be able to consistently put a winner on the court in spite of challenges. I'd put him in the same class as Jerry West, Billy Beane, etc., general managers who find ways to win in spite of apparent challenges. Give him time, he'll give us a good product.

 

[Bricklayer]

so we could've had an NBA MVP and instead we got peja!?! wow! off with petrie's head. well i guess even the best GM's(not saying petrie is one) make bad draft choices. dumars not drafting dwayne wade might be up there with sam bowie.

Drafting is always a hindsight 20/20 thing.

I was just responding to the suggestion that somehow Geoff has been a step ahead of the game drafting. He was not. He's been solid. Many do worse. But even his great successes such as Peja have come with others getting equal or better players later. For instance:

1998 - JWill -- helped turn around the franchise. Great, happy to have him, and meant a lot to us. BUT...JWill was picked #7. #8 was Larry Hughes. #9 Dirk Nowitzki. #10 Paul Pierce. Also picked later were Bonzi Wells, Matt Harping, Michael Dickerson, Ricky Davis, Al Harrington and Rashard Lewis. Kind of puts it in a different light.

2000 - Hedo -- part of our best teams. Glad we had him. BUT...Hedo was picked #16. #17 was Desmond Mason. #18 was Quentin Richardosn. #19 Jamaal Magliore. #20 Speedy Claxton. #21 Morris Petersen. #27 Primoz Brezec. #30 Marko Jaric. #43 Michael Redd.

etc. Petrie has drafted solidly, but there have ALWAYS been other guys still on the board, and Peja is the only almost-star he's ever netted.

 

[nbrans]

^This is much more fair, and very true. He's a solid drafter, definitely makes mistakes, and he treats the second round with almost complete and baffling disdain. I was furious when he took Ryan Robertson with Todd Macullough on the board. Manu Ginobilli was taken with what, second to last pick in the draft?

I wouldn't even really consider the draft one of his strong suits. He's been good enough, but it's his trades and free agent signings that have proven to be more effective at getting the Kings where they are now. (EDIT: Er, where they WERE. I guess "where they are now" was unintentionally accurate though...)

 

[Sacto=Slappo]

^This is much more fair, and very true. He's a solid drafter, definitely makes mistakes, and he treats the second round with almost complete and baffling disdain. I was furious when he took Ryan Robertson with Todd Macullough on the board. Manu Ginobilli was taken with what, second to last pick in the draft?

I wouldn't even really consider the draft one of his strong suits. He's been good enough, but it's his trades and free agent signings that have proven to be more effective at getting the Kings where they are now.

That's sooooooooo true. To re-iterate: Watching Christie go sucked, but then turn around and he's retiring. Same with Vlade. Too bad it was the Lakers but what did he play, like 14 games w/ them? if that? Trades are definitely his strong suit. And it is the season for trading! BTW: Thanx for all the great years dougie and Vlade!!!!

 

[Bricklayer]

This is an extremly unfair assessment.

Really? On the other hand I find yours to be an extremely glowing buy-into-the-hype assessment. Truth is likely somewhere between.

Mine is just flat looking at what happened. Not how happy I was that it happened. Not that Petrie's bleep doesn't stink so it MUST have been brilliant. Just what happened.

The draft is the LAST place you go to try to prove Petrie's brilliance. What you find there is mediocrity. Solid thudding I have the 10th pick so I will get a 10th pick talent work. He's not special at all when it comes to drafting. (Few are -- I think for most its almost a crapshoot. Don Nelson and Gregg Popovich are a couple who stand out as consistently coming up with gems).

 

[Bricklayer]

And the Christie thing...

1) traded him for Cat = good
2) then let Cat walk for nothing = terrible

Net result = Christie for nothing. If you're going to do that, jsut let him retire as a King.
Vlade = also for nothing
Webb = Thomas, Skinner, Corliss

That's how your franchise gets bad in a hurry.

 

[AriesMar27]

the thing about his draft choicse are that only peja was kept... with the way that wallace and hedo are playing we'd be a much better team with them.... especially with the injuries that we have.....

yeah we could have had nash.... but honestly he probably would have been traded, but for some reason matchup wise bibby kills him.... so that doesnt bother me..... the thing with drafting peja is, that with players willing to pass to him id rather have him than most other taken after him...... we no longer have that team advantage that made this team so great.....

the real problem is that so many players were traded this offseason for crap.... trading doug for mobley was just bad, injuries or not.... he could have been a big part of trading for much better players.... we could have gotten bonzi and kept bobby....

not getting players like nene, jaric, diaw, losing house, darius and maybe evans.... last year was just ****ed up and we are now suffering because of it..... trading webber and doug hasnt produced a single positive thing to say about this team....

 

[KP]

And the Christie thing...

1) traded him for Cat = good
2) then let Cat walk for nothing = terrible

Net result = Christie for nothing. If you're going to do that, jsut let him retire as a King.
Vlade = also for nothing
Webb = Thomas, Skinner, Corliss

That's how your franchise gets bad in a hurry.

Petrie has done some great things, he brought this team into contention with his moves, but he has made bad move after bad move over the past year^. The teams record is indicative of this. Petrie has to make some good moves soon or we are in big trouble.

 

[VF21]

Petrie has to make some moves soon or we are in big trouble.

I beg to differ. I believe the ship sailed a while back and has already arrived in port at Big Trouble.

 

[nbrans]

And the Christie thing...

1) traded him for Cat = good
2) then let Cat walk for nothing = terrible

Net result = Christie for nothing. If you're going to do that, jsut let him retire as a King.

This is true, but it was also making the most of a weak hand. Doug's career was pretty much over, he was a step slower, he was overpaid relative to the stage of his career and he didn't have a great deal of trade value. In exchange for Doug the Kings got half a season of Mobley with the possibility that they could use him in a S&T in the offseason (didn't work out that way), and if that didn't work out Doug's $8.2 million contract came off the books, freeing up money under the luxury tax threshold so the team could use the full MLE on a free agent. This is of course partly a result of the Maloof's decision not to spend tax money, but that's for another discussion, Petrie had his marching orders.

As good of a glue guy as Doug was and as much as he meant to the franchise, I don't know that there was such a good option available other than the -- admittedly unproductive -- one that happened. This is what happens when your core players age, they depreciate in value and you have to cut your losses and do what you can to redeem some value.

P.S. I also understand the "keep the expiring deal as trade bait" argument, but there really doesn't seem to be many teams trading players for cap space with a weak free agency class upcoming, and very few good trades happen this way anyway.

 

[Rowdyone]

I don't think you should hold GM's totally responsible for picks that do or don't pan out. Many GM's must placate owners,etc. input...shame on them for doing so but it happens so they can keep their jobs. And if they just follow "conventional wisdom" as seen on the pre-draft boards they are seldom criticized. Now, spotting developing young talent in the league and visualizing them in your lineup and going out and getting them while their value is low seperates the men from the boys. So, GP has shown he can dismantle a team he originally brought together that enjoyed some success. Can he do it again is the question. And while we all are anxious for it to be done it may take a couple of years, usually does. And, at the risk of losing my mortal soul yet recognizing the job he did to put together the team we all loved and enjoyed, I must say that we really weren't as successful as some of us let on. It's the old "expectations" game. We were so much better than before that we really had delusions of grandeaur. Yes, we almost made it to the semi-finals...once. The truth is that that squad, like many King's squads, played to the oppositions level, always competitive but seldom dominant especially against playoff competition. Yes, we almost beat Shaq and Kobe...once...when it counted and the East was weak. But the East plays defense and we don't, never have and never will under RA because he doesn't demand it. Would we have prevailed in the finals? Who knows. But since we never got there it will always be open to conjecture. Point is, we never got there.

 

[SIR HENRY 8]

What there isn't time for, however, is more lackluster effort (and I use the term laughingly) on the part of the team. What happened against the Pacers CANNOT happen again. I don't care if it means benching the starters, playing the towel boy, etc. Something has to be done to get the attention of the guys currently wearing the uniform. That, to me, is something that should be done immediately if not sooner. That cannot wait.

Exactly what i meant by "at least some minor changes".Gotta do SOMETHING.

 

[D-Mass]

Darn it...where is that "shooting myself in the head" emoticon???

 

[thedofd]

What I would have liked to have seen in this column is an explanation for WHY we should be patient. This was Geoff's opportunity to reassure Kings fans that there is a plan, that there's something to look forward to. About 20 other teams would have fired their coach after the effort put forth against Indiana regardless of whether there was someone better out there. Geoff may or may not agree with that philosophy, but surely he had to agree that what we saw was unacceptable.

I would have liked to hear from Geoff's mouth whether he believes that once Shareef and Bonzi are back that this team has what it takes to make the playoffs, the early season evidence notwithstanding. I'd have liked to have heard that he's not making a trade now not because he's timid or shell-shocked but because he reasonably certain that there will be better deals closer to the deadline, or because things will open up once the Pacers do whatever they're going to do with Artest.

There were tough questions that should have been asked but weren't:

Are you REALLY thinking about re-signing Peja at this point, and if so, why?

Do you think that your flirtation with Phil Jackson simply poisoned the well for Adelman and that the team's evident lack of effort and enthusiasm is directly related to his lame-duck status?

In retrospect, should you have even started the season with Rick as your coach, having cut his legs out from under him?

What's your plan for fixing the discombobulated "core:" a point guard who, for all his clutch shots, cannot stop dribble penetration and has difficuly breaking down defenses himself; a center who, for all his great passing, cannot stop anyone inside and doesn't have even basic moves on the low block; a small forward who, while his jump shot is picture-perfect, is wildly inconsistent, disappears for long stretches and doesn't bring much else to the party.

We might have to be patient for a long time.

 

[Kings113]

maybe evans.... last year was just ****ed up and we are now suffering because of it..... trading webber and doug hasnt produced a single positive thing to say about this team....

At first in late June/early July, Evans was into the qualifying offer area Petrie gave him (800/900K), then in late July/early August, Evans changed his mind to a million-dollar multi-year deal. Thus let him go, or else we would of had to use part of the MLE on him.

I'd still love to have Mo here though (or Barnes).

 

[VF21]

thedofd - The thing is Kreidler probably did try to ask those questions. He's a good reporter. But Petrie probably simply ignored them. He's a good general manager AND he has the enviable knack of being able to say a lot of stuff that sounds okay until you examine it and realize he hasn't really said much of anything.

Geoff Petrie plays them closer to the vest than anyone I've ever heard of. The fact he even said anything to Kreidler is amazing. To actually expect his comments to bear fruit is just wishful thinking.



What Petrie does, he'll do behind closed doors. We'll hear about it when the ink is dry, the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted...and not before.

 

[nbrans]

^Yeah, I agree with VF21. Petrie understands negotiation. Anything he says about players affects their trade value. He can't be seen as wanting to part with anyone, otherwise people will know that player can be had for a lesser price. He has to keep his cards clenched against his chest so that no one knows what he's thinking.

 

[thedofd]

thedofd - The thing is Kreidler probably did try to ask those questions. He's a good reporter. But Petrie probably simply ignored them. He's a good general manager AND he has the enviable knack of being able to say a lot of stuff that sounds okay until you examine it and realize he hasn't really said much of anything.

Geoff Petrie plays them closer to the vest than anyone I've ever heard of. The fact he even said anything to Kreidler is amazing. To actually expect his comments to bear fruit is just wishful thinking.



What Petrie does, he'll do behind closed doors. We'll hear about it when the ink is dry, the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted...and not before.

I don't mean to pick on Mark Kreidler, but if he asked those questions and Petrie refused to answer, or didn't have cohertent answers, isn't that news in and of itself? The headline would have read something like: "Architect of Kings powerhouse has no answers for team's woes."

I understand that Geoff plays things close to the vest, and that the strategy often works to his advantage. But for those of us who see little hope for the Kings as currently constructed, it would have been nice to see Geoff say something like: "There's a lot of mediocrity in the Western Conference this year. If we can hang within a few games of .500 until Bonzi and Shareef get back, I'm confident we can get into the playoff hunt. If not, we'll do whatever we have to do to turn this thing around quickly."

Instead, we got "Be patient. I know what I'm doing." And maybe he does. But it almost came off to me as arrogant, as if the Kings are still an elite team that's just going through a bit of a rough patch. From where I sit, that's a leap of faith, the way things have gone lately. I hope I'm wrong. I love the Kings, but I love them more when they're showing some passion, are entertaining, and winning.

 

[VF21]

I don't mean to pick on Mark Kreidler, but if he asked those questions and Petrie refused to answer, or didn't have cohertent answers, isn't that news in and of itself? The headline would have read something like: "Architect of Kings powerhouse has no answers for team's woes."

That headline would be better found over the byline of one Ailene Voisin. It's misleading but self-serving. Just because Petrie doesn't choose to answer doesn't mean he doesn't HAVE answers. I know what you're saying but Kreidler doesn't do things the way Voisin does. He presents the information and lets the reader decide. If he tried ambush journalism at this point, his access to Petrie would most likely be shut down and I don't think this article was worth losing the respect of a GM over. As I said, I'd expect it from Voisin but not Kreidler.

I understand that Geoff plays things close to the vest, and that the strategy often works to his advantage. But for those of us who see little hope for the Kings as currently constructed, it would have been nice to see Geoff say something like: "There's a lot of mediocrity in the Western Conference this year. If we can hang within a few games of .500 until Bonzi and Shareef get back, I'm confident we can get into the playoff hunt. If not, we'll do whatever we have to do to turn this thing around quickly."

Granted, it would have been very nice but it's not the way Petrie operates. I think we all know that by now. And you're putting words in his mouth in your assumption that they even planned to get in the playoff hunt with this squad.

Instead, we got "Be patient. I know what I'm doing." And maybe he does. But it almost came off to me as arrogant, as if the Kings are still an elite team that's just going through a bit of a rough patch. From where I sit, that's a leap of faith, the way things have gone lately. I hope I'm wrong. I love the Kings, but I love them more when they're showing some passion, are entertaining, and winning.

I look at the "Be patient. I know what I'm doing" as similar to a comment Bobby Fisher might have made two moves into a chess match when he was already figuring out move 22. Petrie thinks on a different plane than us mere mortals. And he's not going to give us a peek into his universe or his thought process, no matter how much we want it.

Either that, or he's really up you-know-what creek, the paddle drifted away and the canoe has sprung a leak. He's up to his neck in smelly stuff and doesn't have time to talk about where he was originally headed.

 

[Wuster]

Nice chess analogy, VF. The thing about Fischer (and any other Grandmaster) is that they know going into the game what to expect for the first 15-20 moves or so. They have their opponent sized up, the strengths and weaknesses, and know their tactics/strategies going in. I think Petrie is much the same way as you suggest.

 

[piksi]

Darn it...where is that "shooting myself in the head" emoticon???

would this do it

 

[thedofd]

That headline would be better found over the byline of one Ailene Voisin. It's misleading but self-serving. Just because Petrie doesn't choose to answer doesn't mean he doesn't HAVE answers. I know what you're saying but Kreidler doesn't do things the way Voisin does. He presents the information and lets the reader decide. If he tried ambush journalism at this point, his access to Petrie would most likely be shut down and I don't think this article was worth losing the respect of a GM over. As I said, I'd expect it from Voisin but not Kreidler.

The sports writer has access to the GM, something the readers/fans don't have. He/she is the conduit of information. My problem with this particular column was that there wasn't any new information. Kreidler wrote that Geoff's being patient, he's not going to jump into anything. Really? We all knew that. Many of us are frustrated with the inactivity. There's a fine line between patience and benign neglect. I'm not advocating "ambush journalism," but there were some perfectly legitimate questions that went unanswered.

Granted, it would have been very nice but it's not the way Petrie operates. I think we all know that by now. And you're putting words in his mouth in your assumption that they even planned to get in the playoff hunt with this squad.

Part of my point, VF21, is that from reading this site, listening to talk radio and overhearing conversations at the water cooler is that the folks who pay the bills are very frustrated with "the way Petrie operates." The status quo is no longer acceptable to many people.

Perhaps I'm putting words in Petrie's mouth in discussing the playoffs. Of course -- and to his credit -- he has set the bar pretty high lately. I don't imagine he assembled this team with the idea of finishing last in the division. I certainly thought adding Bonzi and Shareef would keep the team in the playoffs. Again, all I was looking for, as a fan, was some reassurance from the top.

I look at the "Be patient. I know what I'm doing" as similar to a comment Bobby Fisher might have made two moves into a chess match when he was already figuring out move 22. Petrie thinks on a different plane than us mere mortals. And he's not going to give us a peek into his universe or his thought process, no matter how much we want it.

Either that, or he's really up you-know-what creek, the paddle drifted away and the canoe has sprung a leak. He's up to his neck in smelly stuff and doesn't have time to talk about where he was originally headed.

The Bobby Fisher analogy is a good one. Wasn't he kicked out of the country? When are the folks with pitchforks and torches going to march on Arco Arena?

In all seriousness, I hope you're right and that Petrie has a master plan that gets things turned around. I just feel as if the Bee wasted a lot of space on giving him the opportunity to say nothing today.

 

[Yoda]

would this do it

HAHA....that is a great one, and sums up what it feels like to be a Kings fan these days.

 

[piksi]

Darn it...where is that "shooting myself in the head" emoticon???

just for You

 

[Bricklayer]

We'll know more in about 6 weeks. Of course the problem is that by that time the deed may very well be done and we are already talking abouit next season. And if that was the plan? Fine. Let's go young and talk about next season. But that doesn't require waiting or patience.

And you know what else? There may not be a plan. Certainly not some sort of "grand" master plan we are on. This team was not supposed to lose like this in Geoff's little view. That means whatever he's got is maybe a month or two old, tops. Also means that we have witnessed firsthand, right underneath our very noses, Geoff Petrie make a major miscalculation, with a number of other likely miscalculations leading to this point.

We've played 20 home games, only 12 road. We're down two starters. We're 13-19. And we play 9 of the next 12 on the road.

And enough with the Petrie as immortal stuff. I play chess too. And I've had a considerably better read on this team over the past year than Geoff has (and have predicted several of his moves long before they happened). If we were playing he'd be down a pawn and having already ceded control of the middle to me. And I'm NOT that good.

 

[thedofd]

We'll know more in about 6 weeks. Of course the problem is that by that time the deed may very well be done and we are already talking abouit next season. And if that was the plan? Fine. Let's go young and talk about next season. But that doesn't require waiting or patience.

And you know what else? There may not be a plan. Certainly not some sort of "grand" master plan we are on. This team was not supposed to lose like this in Geoff's little view. That means whatever he's got is maybe a month or two old, tops. Also means that we have witnessed firsthand, right underneath our very noses, Geoff Petrie make a major miscalculation, with a number of other likely miscalculations leading to this point.

We've played 20 home games, only 12 road. We're down two starters. We're 13-19. And we play 9 of the next 12 on the road.

And enough with the Petrie as immortal stuff. I play chess too. And I've had a considerably better read on this team over the past year than Geoff has (and have predicted several of his moves long before they happened). If we were playing he'd be down a pawn and having already ceded control of the middle to me. And I'm NOT that good.

Good one, Brick.

Bottom line: I used to have a little statuette of a buzzard on my desk. The inscription read, "Patience my a--. I'm going to kill something." That's about where I'm at with the Kings now. If they were simply playing hard, looking like they cared, and losing, I could live with that. But to see such consistent inconsistently, such lack of passion, such boneheaded play -- especially on the home court -- patience my a--.

Meanwhile, the Kings' current situation reminds me of a line from an old history professor: "Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day ... but it went to hell in a big hurry once the barbarians got in."

 

[D-Mass]

just for You

Very nice...I think I may like the jumping off the cliff one better. Same message...slightly less morbid.

Thanks!

 

[VF21]

Bottom line: I used to have a little statuette of a buzzard on my desk. The inscription read, "Patience my a--. I'm going to kill something." That's about where I'm at with the Kings now. If they were simply playing hard, looking like they cared, and losing, I could live with that. But to see such consistent inconsistently, such lack of passion, such boneheaded play -- especially on the home court -- patience my a--.

I have to agree.

I want to have faith in Petrie. I want to believe there's some kind of reason to be drawn from the chaos.

I really want someone to give me a big hug and tell me it's all going to be alright.