Kobe Bryant in basketball purgatory?

[BMiller52]

There were not nearly critized as Kobe has through out his carreer. I am talking about his on court play.

Ron Artest has definitely been criticized as much as Kobe

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I am talking about his on court play.

Strictly on-court I'd agree with the first two but AI has been blasted for his on court game far worse than Kobe.

 

[AleksandarN]

Ron Artest has definitely been criticized as much as Kobe

Like I said ON COURT. DO not get me wrong has been criticized alot about his off court antics but on court he did not come close to how Kobe every play is criticized during a game.

 

[AleksandarN]

Strictly on-court I'd agree with the first two but AI has been blasted for his on court game far worse than Kobe.

A.I. has not even come close to what Kobe is feeling nation wide. Locally A.I. it is pretty even in the media. But national media are far more critical of Kobe.

 

[BMiller52]

Then like PDX said AI has taken more **** then Kobe.

 

[chaps]

Then like PDX said AI has taken more **** then Kobe.

not in a million years.

The only knock against Iverson is the fact that he hogs the damn ball.

Kobe, on the other hand, has also been called selfish but has taken s*** for the "rape" scandal, him "driving" Shaq and Phil out of LA and also because he's compared to Jordan all the time.

It's not even close.

 

[Bricklayer]

1.) How do you know he quit? Do you know the inner workings of Kobe. Like what is mentioned before he is in a no win situation. Either he tries to take over the game by himself by forcing shots when doubled or pass it to a teamate that was in a better position. What would the fans and media would say then if he tried to force the action? Like what was mentioned in the article he is in a no win situation and you gave a prime example of it in your first point.

Well, for one I watched the game without my "I Luv Kobe" goggles on, and NO player of that caliber, scorer of that caliber, in the final should-have-been-desperate half of basketball of the season, ends up taking 3 shots. Not against that defense. Nor was it even like he tried -- he played the entire half at half speed.

I'll even give you a good guess at what happened: at halftime Phil said something along the lines of "Kobe, you've played great, but nobody else is in rhythm, we need you to back off and get everybody else involved" to which Kobe responded like a little ***** and decided to show Phil exactly what he thought of it by interpreting it absolutely literally. Wasn't about winning for Kobe. No, it was about Kobe for Kobe. Ain't telling me what to do. Ain't telling me to stop shooting. Watch THIS "coach". **** you. And then afterward smirk and say "I was just doing what you asked coach. Not my fault." Yeah, taught him a lesson. Taught a lot of voters a lesson too. Great talent. Disgusting teammate.

BTW, just checked the log: 2nd half = 0-3 FG 1reb 0ast as far as I can tell. 2 of the three shots were giveup three pointers. This was after he scored 50 in Game 6 and 23(?) in the first half of Game 7. Yeah, heck of an effort there Kobe, thanks.

 

[Gargamel]

Well, for one I watched the game without my "I Luv Kobe" goggles on, and NO player of that caliber, scorer of that caliber, in the final should-have-been-desperate half of basketball of the season, ends up taking 3 shots. Not against that defense. Nor was it even like he tried -- he played the entire half at half speed.

I'll even tell you what likely happened: at halftime Phil said something along the lines of "Kobe, you've played great, but nobody else is in rhythm, we need you to back off and get everybody else involved" to which Kobe responded like a little ***** and decided to show Phil exactly what he thought of it by interpreting it absolutely literally. Wasn't about winning for Kobe. No, it was about Kobe for Kobe. Ain't telling me what to do. Ain't telling me to stop shooting. Watch THIS "coach". **** you. And then afterward smirk and say "I was just doing what you asked coach". Yeah, taught him a lesson. Taught a lot of voters a lesson too. Great talent. Disgusting teammate.

You watched the game with your "I haat Kobe" goggles on instead.

 

[vladetomiller]

The same coach who said before the series started that it was the strategy the team would go with, balanced attack and pound the ball inside to take advantage of the suns interior defense.

However after 6 1/2 games kobe decides to **** his coach cos he didnt like what the coach said 6 games ago which produced 3 wins against a so called better phoenix team.

Now those 3 years when the lakers beat the kings caused a lot of heart burns for you and your hatred for the lakers and anyone who played for those lakers in those years or even after is obvious. Its not kobes problem that your team couldnt get over that hurdle. But the "goggles" are obvious

 

[Bricklayer]

You watched the game with your "I haat Kobe" goggles on instead.

Actually I don't particularly -- you will find my history to be to give him his due when he has earned it (he is for instance obviously First Team All NBA, Top 5 talent, HOF material) -- although I have little respect for him, and even less for the sad excuses his fans make for him. Its always on somebody else, on all the bad meanies out there picking on my wittle Kobe poo!

Just watch the damn game.

P.S. As an aside, having to explain the series to Lakers fans seems fairly ridiculous, but you may have noted the Kobe backseat share the ball strategy lasted 5 games, not 6 or 7. Whether it was PJ or Kobe himself, fueled by the Bell incident and the desire to rise up and close it out, Kobe took over Game 6, took over the first half of Game 7. Then quit. probably when he was told his way wasn't working. The ebbs, flows, and differences were 100% crystal clear to anybody not in the excuse making business.

P.P.S. VTM, you are years too late to troll about ancient Kings/Lakers history and are hardly going to get a rise out of me for events that transpired whole NBA generations ago, but you would be advised not to troll anyway.

 

[Superman]

What about Kobe Bryant's life is so hard?

I didn't call Kobe Bryant's life hard. I said that his money doesn't make it easy.

But, since you asked: Imagine that your life - job, pay rate, performance evaluations, marriage, family life, the birth of your children, etc. - was scrutinized by the entire country, and no matter what, you always had to answer to the world for your actions, whether negative or positive.

The publicity is fine when everyone likes you. It sucks when you're stuck in a "can't win" situation the way that Kobe Bryant has been since he came into the League. This isn't something that he's had to live with since he and Shaq started the whole "whose team is this" during the championship run. It's been there since way before he was charged with assault three years ago. Yes, he's definitely responsible for how he's viewed to a large degree, but there are some things that are out of his control.

And no matter how much money a person has, his problems don't go away. Maybe he doesn't have to worry about bills or his 401K, but that doesn't mean that everything is fine for him. I'm sure we can all come up with a list of wealthy individuals who went on record to state that no matter how much money they make, their money will never make them happy. They will still have family problems, whether self-induced or not, they will still lose loved ones, they will still get sick and grow old and die themselves, they'll still need companionship, etc.

I just take exception with the idea that a professional athlete shouldn't have anything to complain about because they make millions for playing a game. That has little to do with the quality of their life.

I am NOT saying that Latrell Sprewell is having trouble feeding his family.

I'm also NOT saying that I wouldn't like to have Kobe Bryant's money. But if I had to take his problems as well, I'd have to think about it. But I'd still take his money.

 

[coolhandluke]

Well, for one I watched the game without my "I Luv Kobe" goggles on, and NO player of that caliber, scorer of that caliber, in the final should-have-been-desperate half of basketball of the season, ends up taking 3 shots. Not against that defense. Nor was it even like he tried -- he played the entire half at half speed.

I'll even give you a good guess at what happened: at halftime Phil said something along the lines of "Kobe, you've played great, but nobody else is in rhythm, we need you to back off and get everybody else involved" to which Kobe responded like a little ***** and decided to show Phil exactly what he thought of it by interpreting it absolutely literally. Wasn't about winning for Kobe. No, it was about Kobe for Kobe. Ain't telling me what to do. Ain't telling me to stop shooting. Watch THIS "coach". **** you. And then afterward smirk and say "I was just doing what you asked coach. Not my fault." Yeah, taught him a lesson. Taught a lot of voters a lesson too. Great talent. Disgusting teammate.

BTW, just checked the log: 2nd half = 0-3 FG 1reb 0ast as far as I can tell. 2 of the three shots were giveup three pointers. This was after he scored 50 in Game 6 and 23(?) in the first half of Game 7. Yeah, heck of an effort there Kobe, thanks.

Yeah, pretty much the way I saw it. I have huge respect for Kobe's talent but not his attitude. He just plain quit in the second half of that game. He did not take shots. He did not create shots. He did not rebound. He did not play to win.

He was a 6'6" waste of space trying to make a "point" while NOT getting the REAL point at all. No matter what, Game 7 is NOT the place to show up your coach. I feel sorry for faithful Lakers fans, the few that remain.

Here is an exercise for those who defend Kobe. Watch the second half of the game, and make a count for the following plays. How many times did he pass out of a double team to an open, unguarded teammate? How many times did he pass out of a double team to a guarded teammate? How many times did he pass out from single coverage to a guarded teammate? How many times did he take a shot on single coverage?

I don't buy any of that "trying to get teammates involved" crap put forth rather unconvincingly by Kobe and PJ in the postgame conference. You can get your teammates involved ONLY when you are aggressive and force the opponents to scramble to guard you with a double team. When you are not aggressive, not even bothering to look up at the basket, it doesn't matter how great a player you are -- you are ineffective for the team. Kobe can learn from Duncan or even LeBron in these matters.

PS. I don't see how comparing Kobe to MJ lets him off for the stupid things he does on the court. Justifying his play and attitude by saying, "Oh, poor Kobe! He never gets a break! He is unfairly compared to MJ," makes no sense -- it's good only for diverting the topic. Sure, MJ might have done things differently in the same situation, but this is about Kobe's play, not MJ's.

 

[Superman]

P.S. As an aside, having to explain the series to Lakers fans seems fairly ridiculous, but you may have noted the Kobe backseat share the ball strategy lasted 5 games, not 6 or 7. Whether it was PJ or Kobe himself, fueled by the Bell incident and the desire to rise up and close it out, Kobe took over Game 6, took over the first half of Game 7. Then quit. probably when he was told his way wasn't working. The ebbs, flows, and differences were 100% crystal clear to anybody not in the excuse making business.

I agree to a certain extent, but watching that series it was obvious that Kobe was going to have to carry the Lakers to the end. Kwame stopped being effective, Lamar started deferring again, Luke stopped hitting shots and started turning the ball over, Smush was never there. That's what happened in Game 6. No one else was ready. Much like no one was ready from Cleveland - except LeBron - in their four losses to Detroit.

Game 7, he didn't play like you want your best player to play in an elimination game, the last 24 minutes of your season. And yes, I've made the comparison, saying "MJ wouldn't have gone out like that". But I've also said "Magic wouldn't have gone out like that," and "Bird wouldn't have gone out like that," etc.

There was definitely a difference in Kobe's demeanor in this year's elimination game from 2003 when they lost to the Spurs in the second round. Or when they lost to the Pistons in the Finals the year after.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

But, since you asked: Imagine that your life - job, pay rate, performance evaluations, marriage, family life, the birth of your children, etc. - was scrutinized by the entire country, and no matter what, you always had to answer to the world for your actions, whether negative or positive.

Well, the military has had its fair share of scrutiny for as long as I can remember. Now, I've never had my marriage, family life or the birth of my child publically scrutinized, but I can't recall that Kobe Bryant ever has, either.

The publicity is fine when everyone likes you. It sucks when you're stuck in a "can't win" situation the way that Kobe Bryant has been since he came into the League...

Well, maybe if he hadn't come out of high school... maybe if he hadn't "threatened" not to play for Charlotte by intimating that the only team he would play for is Los Angeles... maybe if he hadn't made the conscious decision to be so aloof, and place himself above and apart from his teammates...

 

[VF21]

Well, for one I watched the game without my "I Luv Kobe" goggles on, and NO player of that caliber, scorer of that caliber, in the final should-have-been-desperate half of basketball of the season, ends up taking 3 shots. Not against that defense. Nor was it even like he tried -- he played the entire half at half speed.

I'll even give you a good guess at what happened: at halftime Phil said something along the lines of "Kobe, you've played great, but nobody else is in rhythm, we need you to back off and get everybody else involved" to which Kobe responded like a little ***** and decided to show Phil exactly what he thought of it by interpreting it absolutely literally. Wasn't about winning for Kobe. No, it was about Kobe for Kobe. Ain't telling me what to do. Ain't telling me to stop shooting. Watch THIS "coach". **** you. And then afterward smirk and say "I was just doing what you asked coach. Not my fault." Yeah, taught him a lesson. Taught a lot of voters a lesson too. Great talent. Disgusting teammate.

BTW, just checked the log: 2nd half = 0-3 FG 1reb 0ast as far as I can tell. 2 of the three shots were giveup three pointers. This was after he scored 50 in Game 6 and 23(?) in the first half of Game 7. Yeah, heck of an effort there Kobe, thanks.

Yeah, pretty much the way I saw it. I have huge respect for Kobe's talent but not his attitude. He just plain quit in the second half of that game. He did not take shots. He did not create shots. He did not rebound. He did not play to win.

He was a 6'6" waste of space trying to make a "point" while NOT getting the REAL point at all. No matter what, Game 7 is NOT the place to show up your coach. I feel sorry for faithful Lakers fans, the few that remain.

Here is an exercise for those who defend Kobe. Watch the second half of the game, and make a count for the following plays. How many times did he pass out of a double team to an open, unguarded teammate? How many times did he pass out of a double team to a guarded teammate? How many times did he pass out from single coverage to a guarded teammate? How many times did he take a shot on single coverage?

I don't buy any of that "trying to get teammates involved" crap put forth rather unconvincingly by Kobe and PJ in the postgame conference. You can get your teammates involved ONLY when you are aggressive and force the opponents to scramble to guard you with a double team. When you are not aggressive, not even bothering to look up at the basket, it doesn't matter how great a player you are -- you are ineffective for the team. Kobe can learn from Duncan or even LeBron in these matters.

PS. I don't see how comparing Kobe to MJ lets him off for the stupid things he does on the court. Justifying his play and attitude by saying, "Oh, poor Kobe! He never gets a break! He is unfairly compared to MJ," makes no sense -- it's good only for diverting the topic. Sure, MJ might have done things differently in the same situation, but this is about Kobe's play, not MJ's.

Both Bricklayer and coolhandluke have pretty much expressed my feelings on this. What surprises me the most is the way some Laker fans have defended Kobe.

Personally, I'd rather have someone with a little less talent and perhaps the ego that goes with it and a little more heart and loyalty to the team and the fans. But that's their call to make.

 

[AleksandarN]

Both Bricklayer and coolhandluke have pretty much expressed my feelings on this. What surprises me the most is the way some Laker fans have defended Kobe.

Personally, I'd rather have someone with a little less talent and perhaps the ego that goes with it and a little more heart and loyalty to the team and the fans. But that's their call to make.

Hey what did I do to you. Why you insult me like that. As a matter of fact I dislike the Lakers as much as you. I hate everyone except the best player in the league of course on that team.

 

[VF21]

Hey what did I do to you. Why you insult me like that. As a matter of fact I dislike the Lakers as much as you. I hate everyone except the best player in the league of course on that team.

Erm, I wasn't referring to you? I was referring to some Laker fans who seem to be making more excuses for Kobe than ever before. Hence the specific use of the term LAKER FANS. I didn't reference you in any way, shape or form...

Back to my comment, I would have thought LAKER FANS would have been more than a little upset at Kobe's performance in that final game. After being the one to get the job done during the season and having it all on his shoulders, I think he pretty much just dropped the ball.

 

[AleksandarN]

Erm, I wasn't referring to you? I was referring to some Laker fans who seem to be making more excuses for Kobe than ever before. Hence the specific use of the term LAKER FANS. I didn't reference you in any way, shape or form...

Back to my comment, I would have thought LAKER FANS would have been more than a little upset at Kobe's performance in that final game. After being the one to get the job done during the season and having it all on his shoulders, I think he pretty much just dropped the ball.

No problem then. I thought you were trying to get in a little cheap shot.

 

[BMiller52]

not in a million years.

The only knock against Iverson is the fact that he hogs the damn ball.

Kobe, on the other hand, has also been called selfish but has taken s*** for the "rape" scandal, him "driving" Shaq and Phil out of LA and also because he's compared to Jordan all the time.

It's not even close.

He said ON THE COURT. If you're going to say off the court then you have to put Ron in front of him(who has been criticized for on the court stuff like the brawl). I mean **** when you talked about Ron Artest some people acted like he was the devil. Especially when he was traded here.

Kobe is a very good basketball player and THAT'S IT.

 

[vladetomiller]

Kobe is a very good basketball player and THAT'S IT.

Just after MJ had retired the heir apparent were AI and Kobe
It moved onto Vince Carter and Kobe
Then we saw Tracy Mcgrady and Kobe
After one good post season and an average season from the youngster it was Wade and Kobe
Even before he got into the league for various reasons Bron was supposed to be heir apparent and now it is Bron and Kobe along with Wade.

There is just one common thread all these years and i guess that tells something

 

[BMiller52]

Yeah it tells you that he's one of the best NBA players but that's it. I'm sick of Kobe fans like you and AleksandarN defending every little thing that's said about him. He's not some type of god or anything.