Telemachus
Starter
Fans around here are always eager to quickly give up on young players. Most around here would've wanted players like Giannis or Pascal Siakam traded before they ever reached what they are now.
[Game] Kings vs. Nuggets, 2/6/21, 2pm PST, 5pm EST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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SLAB
Hall of Famer
difference being Giannis and Pascal weren’t the second pick in a hyped draft which led to lots of negative energy flowing from both sides (fans then the other side being Dadley and not Marv himself), leading to the “Maybe change is best for all” thoughts.
Telemachus
Starter
True, but fans on here have shown the same impatience with a lot of young players over the years, many of which weren't high lottery picks. Fans just tend to want results right away or try to move them for something else. I'm sure this doesn't just pertain to King's fans. I just don't spend a lot of time on other team's forums.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
The thing that has sorta changed here though is that the Kings surprisingly might be in a better position to make some noise now than initially thought and Bagley for better or worse is still the rawest player on the team that’s not Ramsey. He shows flashes and is definitely not a T-Rob-style bust but he’s probably still a couple of years away from really really taking off especially with the lost development time thanks to the injuries last year.
meanwhile the Kings are suddenly looking like they’re a piece or two away from making a little late-season noise and Haliburton is rocketing up the role call sheet from role player guy to tall CP3 faster than anyone could have thought/anticipated.
I mean, unless Tyrese is never going to improve at all, he’s already hit that initial “Elite Role Player” ceiling that pundits were talking about during the draft process that lowered his value somehow. His emergence as a potential bonafide second star completely changes the duration and desperation of Monte’s initial rebuild process.
Before the season it was “hopefully Bagley develops into that second good player or we rank and get a super high pick or else we’re screwed” but now it’s more like “find pieces that work around Fox and Rese and Holmes”
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Have we though? Have any of the players us fans have wanted run out of town gone to prove us wrong and flourish elsewhere? If there’s one thing we know as Kings fans, it’s bad basketball. lmao.
Ok play him straight up but when you double team or help, double team and help hard......the soft double teams were ineffective, and noticeably so.
"Rather go for 40""?...... Take some defensive pride and foul out even if necessary - look at Bagley - a poor game offensively and 1 foul. He's a better athlete than Jokic - take some defensive pride! Bagley should've been guarding him until fouling out.. Their not using him much in the 2nd half anyway. A great chance to work on defense, and he only defended him sporadically. Rmarkably Bagley and Hield go a combined 2-17 and the Kings still win - that's how well the other 4 players did on offense - 4 players for 20+ points.
Section 101
All-Star
Which of those young players went on an became better somewhere else?
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Any guys that show any amount of promise we generally stick with too. As far as I remember, McBen was frustrating, but wasn’t universally despised and wished away despite being subpar for season after season. We were ride or die with HGIII.
I’m trying to think of guys the fanbase actively disliked or didn’t give a chance to. It’s guys who don’t try (Sup Willie) or Vlade Special Awful Trades (Sup Swanigan or Burks) or Vlade Special Awful Picks (Sup PapaG and Bagley)
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
man, this is one of those moves that we were all sorta distraught about when it happened but Harry hasn’t exactly worked out well for the blazers even as every single other guy on that roster over 6’9” keeps getting injured.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
I’m just waiting to check that box score one night and see that big breakout game but it’s always 5/7/1 and I go
I don't watch the Blazers right now unless they are playing the Kings - too much effort since I've dumped youtube tv last year, so I checked the stats and he is averaging less minutes per game than he did with us. His numbers are down across the board and not just in an adjusted way. I really do wish him well but moving on was the right call here.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Funny, but one of the other player fixations here at KF is Kelly Oubre. I recently visited a Warriors fan site I’ve read for years and many of them can’t wait to ship him out of the Bay.
As the old adage I often repeat goes, “the grass isn’t always greener”. And sometimes it‘s even turning brown.
Hard to imagine anyone here would still want Oubre and yet I know there are still a few.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Well, it worked!
And while he ended up with 50, a nice portion came with the game basically in hand. He hit a garbage 3 off the backboard in the final minute too.
Per usual, I counted at least 6 plays where he shuffles or drags his feet after moving his pivot foot. Some think that’s no big deal, but it surely helps get to places on the floor he wouldn’t get to otherwise. Also had a blatant hook on Whiteside for another basket.
Very good player, but much of it is manufactured.
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KingsFanSince85
All-Star
One good thing about this past year was not having SL and having to read the usual jump to conclusions crap that always comes along with it.
Instant gratification fan is beyond annoying to me. Someone needs to come up with a monicker similar to ‘Karen’ to better mock those people.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Opposing coaches are recognizing.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
We’re already having trouble getting Marvin enough time. Imagine throwing another big into the equation.
Basically we swapped for Whiteside. Although I'm sure we'd be paying a lot more than Portland is for Harry.
krylia sovetov
Bench
currently we play with 3 bigs - holmes, hassan and bagley. barnes plays PF minutes, GRIII too.
there's a room for a another big, or better, a SF/PF tweener.
our smallball works pretty fine.
but bagley needs his 20-25 minutes per game. we need to know what is capable of, potential is there but he lacks experience and maturity. usually, you need to wait longer for a rookie bigs to develop. and I'm pretty fine with his absence in a last quarter, he can get traumatized if he does something dumb in a crunch time.
so let's wait till the end of a season.
Good ol coach Malone trying to keep his rep at best coach for the Kings in a while, even if it's while he's coaching a different team.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
if Bagley makes a leap like Fox did whenever it may be while he is still under contract, then the Kings are a 50 win team and perennial Playoff team, it's simply a matter of does Monte have the patience to wait it out and see it come to fruition.
Livinthedream
All-Star
If we trade Bagley this season simply because we're within a shot of the 8th or 9th seed, I'd be disappointed in Monte. It would be more of the same of being satisfied with just making the playoffs.
Telemachus
Starter
I understand what you are saying, but it would greatly depend on what we got in return. I think it is way too early to give up on a talent like Bagley. However, if we were able to trade Buddy & Bagley for Bradley Beal (doubt Washington would do this), then I pull the trigger in a heartbeat. If we were trading Bagley for Bamba & a future pick, then I would have to pass.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I agree with you that trading Bagley in a rush would be ill advised. The only way I move Bagley to better position ourselves for a run this year is for a Vucevic or Randle type player.
However I am totally on board with just making the playoffs. 14 straight years of the lottery, I don’t think we need to worry about messing up our shot at a championship.
One or two more draft pieces, a defensive role player free agent and continued development of Fox and Ty and we have a competitive team for years to come
Livinthedream
All-Star
True. Let me put it this way. Monte thinned out the front court tremendously. It's a 3 man rotation at this point and I would have to think that was intentional. To actively shop Bagley would be giving up on him way too early, when that was not the intent to start the season.
As far as trading for a superstar, that requires breaking the bank. All players on the Kings at that point are tradeable and that is not a "moving on" from Bagley situation.
Jokic is a great athlete, otherwise he does not get 50/12/8. Don't be afraid to say the words.
Bagley is an enigma at this point with crappy defense.
Meanwhile the other Kings are playing great. Fox, Haliburton, Barnes and Holmes are like the Four Horsemen.
Hield may be able to continue to emerge as a more complete player since some teams have really clamped down on him defensively. The Kings have some decent role players. Whiteside gets some good minutes, Robinson does. Joseph I am not so sure about.
Recognize the contributions made by the coaching staff, Coach Luke in particular. It may Coach Rex that has had more to do with the turn around than anyone else.
Bagley is an enigma at this point with crappy defense.
Meanwhile the other Kings are playing great. Fox, Haliburton, Barnes and Holmes are like the Four Horsemen.
Hield may be able to continue to emerge as a more complete player since some teams have really clamped down on him defensively. The Kings have some decent role players. Whiteside gets some good minutes, Robinson does. Joseph I am not so sure about.
Recognize the contributions made by the coaching staff, Coach Luke in particular. It may Coach Rex that has had more to do with the turn around than anyone else.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I think I'll buy into the playoff talk when we get past the All Star break and other teams get serious. If the Kings are able to still hang with the better teams, then we have something. Last couple of seasons when other teams made their playoffs push, Kings got crushed.
Hield is in a dryp patch right now, but I think he will find it, and he's finding ways to contribute not shooting......I dont know if I'd trade Hield and Bagley for Beal......Bagley is a wild card - its a bit of a gamble as Bagley is still so young. In the short timeframe it sounds like a good trade, but a gamble on the medium to long term. Walton seems content to cut Bagley development minutes more as the Kings are winning without him.
If I'm playing devils advocate here, I think people see Ball as a Haliburton type. Worse shooting efficiency, better rebounder and defender. He can rack up 6 assists without the ball being in his hands for very long, so he's very anti CoJo in that manner. He moves the ball quick just like Haliburton does. He's also come around as a 3 point shooter. Currently shooting the same percentage as Fox but he takes a couple more per game.
Acquiring Ball could mean squeezing CoJo out of the rotation, which is a good thing at this point in his career. It would also allow the Kings to run a Fox, Hali, Ball, Barnes, Holmes lineup that would also squeeze Bagley and Hield's minutes. So you would be essentially limiting the minutes of the 3 worst players on the Kings this year in favor for a slightly above average player. It could potentially work.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Hassan, IT, and Ben Mclemore all were all draft picks derided by parts of the fanbase, and went on to improve their stock elsewhere (interestingly, they were all picked in nearly contiguous years; a dubious era.)
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