[Game] Kings vs Nuggets 1/26/14 11 AM JST/ 6 PM PST/ 9 PM EST

[mac]

I know they have all thought about it. I think about it at least once a game.

I admire your restraint.

 

[Glenn]

I am beginning to think the worst pick of a few years ago was IT as we seem to be painted in a corner for at least another half season. He is predictable and he is aggravating. I deliberately didn't watch the game tonight and it turned out very much as I expected except almost everyone shot over 50%. That's an amazing stat for a team that lost.

It appears that the loss of Cuz and Gay has focused the spotlight on the problem. At least that has been accomplished because it can be taken care of.

 

[gunks]

Man you guys are really hard on Isaiah...What more can you ask of this guy? He was selected last in the draft and he's only 5'9. I think we can all agree that he takes a lot of inadvertent shots and his play making could be a bit better. I like Isaiah and I feel like he would be a fantastic Sixth Man, but as of right now he's the closest we have to a "starting" PG. Yes I know we have McCallum who I think should get more burn, but he's definitely not ready for the starting job.

Agree with all of this. Not that I'm defending IT's game tonight, or a fan of him as a starter (although I think it could work if we get a stud defender at the 2 - not the rarest commodity by any means)....But of all our active players, he is the most talented. You want him taking the most shots, even if he is in a bit of a slump right now.

I've been on the "IT could be a perennial 6th Man of the Year candidate" bandwagon for awhile now, and if he stays with the Kings, I hope its off the bench. But the dude is young and is improving. He could still develop into a legit starting PG. What more can you ask from the last pick of the draft?


...Besides more passing that is.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I'm going to object because it's pretty clear PDA has been doing what he can to upgrade. You can only sell what someone else is willing to buy.

So we give PDA a pass because he is doing his best,then break out the torches and pitchforks each night because IT's best is not good enough?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

So we give PDA a pass because he is doing his best,then break out the torches and pitchforks each night because IT's best is not good enough?

It's because he is being selfish. that is his own choice.

 

[peacelate]

So we give PDA a pass because he is doing his best,then break out the torches and pitchforks each night because IT's best is not good enough?

He's not a miracle worker. This team had so many holes before the season started, and they still do, but not as many.

 

[VF21]

So we give PDA a pass because he is doing his best,then break out the torches and pitchforks each night because IT's best is not good enough?

I didn't say give him a pass. I personally think it might be nice not to call him a "bean counting gerbil"and to at least acknowledge he's done more in two trades than Petrie did the last 4 years.

And please do not toss out the "IT's best is not good enough" straw man. Tonight was not an example of IT's best. It was an example of IT trying and then IT forgetting to look for the open man and then IT forgetting he didn't have to take the first shot he saw and then IT forgetting there were 4 other guys on the court and then IT forgetting to hustle on defense, etc. The most maddening thing about IT is we have seen him do all the things he forgot to do tonight. We know he can do them. It's up to him to decide TO do them.

 

[Glenn]

So we give PDA a pass because he is doing his best,then break out the torches and pitchforks each night because IT's best is not good enough?

Why not? I have no problem with what PDA has done. He has set us up for playoffs next year. A lot was lost when we traded so much to get Gay but we got Gay and that will pay dividends. There was bound to be a huge problem with the elimination of the bench and it is proving to be true. I hope we can bring back the thread that had a poll as to what would happen if we got Gay. Quite a few of us were negative about the immediate results. That doesn't mean the trade was wrong.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I am beginning to think the worst pick of a few years ago was IT as we seem to be painted in a corner for at least another half season. He is predictable and he is aggravating. I deliberately didn't watch the game tonight and it turned out very much as I expected except almost everyone shot over 50%. That's an amazing stat for a team that lost.

It appears that the loss of Cuz and Gay has focused the spotlight on the problem. At least that has been accomplished because it can be taken care of.

I hear ya but somehow forced myself to the 4 quarters of mild to severe abuse on TV. For the record Kings and Nugs both shot 52% from the field but and it's a big but - IT shot 7-21. Denver made 10 3s shooting 40% outside arc to Kings 4 made 3s at 25% - IT 1-6 from downtown. All in all it was pretty much exactly kind of game against Denver w/o Kings big 2 (forget big 3) that was to be expected.

 

[kingzallday]

By getting upset with his Hero balls and poor Assist/TO ratio? I think those are things he could change as a player and wouldn't be asking too much

I would love if his shot selection and Assist/TO ratio was better, but if he improved those two things he'd be a borderline all-star right now.(In the East )

 

[sdballer]

I would love if his shot selection and Assist/TO ratio was better, but if he improved those two things he'd be a borderline all-star right now.(In the East )

And played any kind of defense.

Basically all the things he lacks that instead make him perfectly suited as a change of pace scoring 6th man.

 

[HndsmCelt]

It's because he is being selfish. that is his own choice.

it's how he plays, Malone has said as much and also said he did not WANT IT to play different. Don't get me wrong I HATE watching IT start, I LOVE pass first PGs John Stockton was one of my favorite all time players, but I honestly do not see IT EVER being a high assist PG. Ialsodon'tsee him as a starter on any team unless they are horribly desperate. But I also don't see him changing his style of play. But I may be unfair to PDA maybe he just can't find a PG and can't change his management style.

 

[fanop]

I would love if his shot selection and Assist/TO ratio was better, but if he improved those two things he'd be a borderline all-star right now.(In the East )

The kings would also be competing for the final spot in the east too

 

[PurpleHaze]

The kings would also be competing for the final spot in the east too

DeMarcus Cousins if on just about any EC team would be getting nightly wows on ESPN, etc. plus would be lock All Star.

 

[The_Jamal]

I am beginning to think the worst pick of a few years ago was IT as we seem to be painted in a corner for at least another half season. He is predictable and he is aggravating. I deliberately didn't watch the game tonight and it turned out very much as I expected except almost everyone shot over 50%. That's an amazing stat for a team that lost.

It appears that the loss of Cuz and Gay has focused the spotlight on the problem. At least that has been accomplished because it can be taken care of.

Yeesh. I'm doing my best to stay out of any IT related discussion, but this is a bit insane. After Jimmer, Trob, and now with Ben having a rough start (tonight not withstanding), you're going with the 60th pick in the draft, who easily has been one of the best 2nd round picks the past 5 years (probably longer) as the worst? That takes on a level of new bias, even for this forum.

Back to my self-imposed IT exile.

 

[Npliam]

I LOVE pass first PGs John Stockton was one of my favorite all time players,

Here here.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Why not? I have no problem with what PDA has done. He has set us up for playoffs next year. A lot was lost when we traded so much to get Gay but we got Gay and that will pay dividends. There was bound to be a huge problem with the elimination of the bench and it is proving to be true. I hope we can bring back the thread that had a poll as to what would happen if we got Gay. Quite a few of us were negative about the immediate results. That doesn't mean the trade was wrong.

If you are OK with that move (and I really never was too critical of it) AND you support the trade of Vasquez that brought in Gay then you really have no room to bag on IT for suddenly starting as PG.

 

[Glenn]

If you are OK with that move (and I really never was too critical of it) AND you support the trade of Vasquez that brought in Gay then you really have no room to bag on IT for suddenly starting as PG.

I will bag on IT as he does not fit what I think is the new culture: defense and team work. Yes he is a good character guy. The way IT plays is his fault and not PDA's. I don't want him on the team next year and if we can get a player we need in a trade, that's great. If we can't get a player that contributes, let IT go. Decent replacements will need to be found at his position but certainly there are people available.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

For the simple reason people have been making it abundantly clear ALL SEASON what their problems are with Isaiah. Most of us agree he's a very good 6th man...but IT doesn't see it that way. I don't care if he's 5'9" or 6'5". There are things you do as a point guard and things you don't do. As far as where he was picked in the draft, that has no bearing in how he conducts himself on the court.

IT plays hero ball. He doesn't look for the open man, he doesn't want to look for the open man, and he'll do anything to avoid looking for the open man. He truly believes he and he alone can make the difference in a game.

Thank you! I completely agree. These last two games have made that abundantly clear. The only difference that we're seeing now is that without Rudy and DMC on the floor, Isaiah Thomas is unbearable to watch. Undoubtedly, the man has talent. For a player of his size, I praise the fact that he has gotten to where he is now. Unfortunately, his style of play as a teams' starting point guard can not and will not translate into wins. It's almost gotten to the point where you feel bad for his teammates. How must it feel to know that you've just made a great defensive play, yet there is no chance of you being rewarded on the other end, because everyone in the building knows who the ball is sticking to. Not to mention; everyone around the league wants to look at the stats and praise Isaiah Thomas as the next great point guard in this league. It's a joke. Fortunately, as Kings fans, we have a front office that is committed to building a winning team and a positive culture. I dearly hope that soon we will see Isaiah come off of the bench as a 6th man while our newly acquired true PG (whoever that may be) runs this team as he should. I am tired of seeing situations where we have mismatches in our favor, advantages presented to our team, yet the ball stays in the hands of our selfish 5'9" PG which consistently ends in a loss.


Sorry guys, I just had to vent a little.

 

[peacelate]

I will bag on IT as he does not fit what I think is the new culture: defense and team work. Yes he is a good character guy. The way IT plays is his fault and not PDA's. I don't want him on the team next year and if we can get a player we need in a trade, that's great. If we can't get a player that contributes, let IT go. Decent replacements will need to be found at his position but certainly there are people available.

If anything, you sign and trade IT if the price is too high. You don't let him walk for nothing. You may not like IT, but I'm certain there are handful of teams who would love to have him be their 6th man.

 

[fanop]

Thank you! I completely agree. These last two games have made that abundantly clear. The only difference that we're seeing now is that without Rudy and DMC on the floor, Isaiah Thomas is unbearable to watch. Undoubtedly, the man has talent. For a player of his size, I praise the fact that he has gotten to where he is now. Unfortunately, his style of play as a teams' starting point guard can not and will not translate into wins. It's almost gotten to the point where you feel bad for his teammates. How must it feel to know that you've just made a great defensive play, yet there is no chance of you being rewarded on the other end, because everyone in the building knows who the ball is sticking to. Not to mention; everyone around the league wants to look at the stats and praise Isaiah Thomas as the next great point guard in this league. It's a joke. Fortunately, as Kings fans, we have a front office that is committed to building a winning team and a positive culture. I dearly hope that soon we will see Isaiah come off of the bench as a 6th man while our newly acquired true PG (whoever that may be) runs this team as he should. I am tired of seeing situations where we have mismatches in our favor, advantages presented to our team, yet the ball stays in the hands of our selfish 5'9" PG which consistently ends in a loss.


Sorry guys, I just had to vent a little.

What I started realizing this game vs the pacers game was that the rest of his teammates were contributing on both ends and not struggling like they did against the Pacers...yet Thomas still thought he had to jack up shots. He doesn't create shots for others very much, which I think is one of his big knocks. I actually think Jimmer has better passing skills than IT. He sees the floor much better and can give his bigs easy shots. Jimmer just has poor dribbles. IT is the type of leader the kings need, but I think he needs to better understand his role the team as a starting pg is to get others more incorporated into the offense.

 

[Tetsujin]

I am beginning to think the worst pick of a few years ago was IT as we seem to be painted in a corner for at least another half season. He is predictable and he is aggravating. I deliberately didn't watch the game tonight and it turned out very much as I expected except almost everyone shot over 50%. That's an amazing stat for a team that lost.

It appears that the loss of Cuz and Gay has focused the spotlight on the problem. At least that has been accomplished because it can be taken care of.

Slept in instead of watching the game. It was a great decision.

 

[Hadlowe]

I am beginning to think the worst pick of a few years ago was IT as we seem to be painted in a corner for at least another half season. He is predictable and he is aggravating. I deliberately didn't watch the game tonight and it turned out very much as I expected except almost everyone shot over 50%. That's an amazing stat for a team that lost.

It appears that the loss of Cuz and Gay has focused the spotlight on the problem. At least that has been accomplished because it can be taken care of.

Honestly, I don't mind IT taking a lot of shots when the shots are there and they come in the flow of the offense. They weren't there tonight, they were forced against decent defense, and the ball movement really stagnated when IT was playing floor general.

I don't really know what the team could have done to slow the game down and keep it competitive, but we really needed to get the ball out of Thomas' hands a few more times.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I will bag on IT as he does not fit what I think is the new culture: defense and team work. Yes he is a good character guy. The way IT plays is his fault and not PDA's. I don't want him on the team next year and if we can get a player we need in a trade, that's great. If we can't get a player that contributes, let IT go. Decent replacements will need to be found at his position but certainly there are people available.

The truth is IT has been playing the same way since Jump Street, PDA knew or should have known how IT plays and made the decisions and moves that took IT from 6th man of the year type player to 40 min starter with no real back up. As the saying goes you knew he was a snake when you picked him up.

In no way do I mean to bag on PDA, I have said repeatedly that I see him in the middle of a series of trades that improve the talent pool on the team, but the broken record complaints about IT for not being right as a starting PG is unfair and quite frankly uninspired. I get it,we all get IT is a score first PG who does not pass to open team mates and over dribbles. But the truth also is no decent coach would start him unless they were more desperate than the captain of the chess club on prom night.

 

[NewArena]

I am beginning to think the worst pick of a few years ago was IT as we seem to be painted in a corner for at least another half season. He is predictable and he is aggravating. I deliberately didn't watch the game tonight and it turned out very much as I expected except almost everyone shot over 50%. That's an amazing stat for a team that lost.

It appears that the loss of Cuz and Gay has focused the spotlight on the problem. At least that has been accomplished because it can be taken care of.

Are you serious lol the worst pick?

 

[NewArena]

You guys are so dramatic

 

[Glenn]

The truth is IT has been playing the same way since Jump Street, PDA knew or should have known how IT plays and made the decisions and moves that took IT from 6th man of the year type player to 40 min starter with no real back up. As the saying goes you knew he was a snake when you picked him up.

In no way do I mean to bag on PDA, I have said repeatedly that I see him in the middle of a series of trades that improve the talent pool on the team, but the broken record complaints about IT for not being right as a starting PG is unfair and quite frankly uninspired. I get it,we all get IT is a score first PG who does not pass to open team mates and over dribbles. But the truth also is no decent coach would start him unless they were more desperate than the captain of the chess club on prom night.

I agree with just about everything you say. I even agree that griping about IT is uninspired. That's why I didn't watch the game last night. He aggravates me and I cannot turn off that reaction. I wish I could as I would enjoy the games far more. I see a decent team on it's way up that falls apart. Am I supposed to be emotionless? How much did I complain last night? I complained when I came back on line after the game after I looked at the box score. The good thing about IT's problems are that they can be fixed when he is gone. That should not be difficult to arrange. This team is supposed to be developing a new culture and two aspects of it are supposedly defense (wish PDA and Malone would get together on that one) and team play. We have one guy, the pg, who is in a great position to effect team play and frequently, not all the time, he forgets team play.

It bothers me when people tell me what I should and should not discuss about the Kings. It will not change me. I react to what makes me react and as predictable as IT is, I still react. I know some topics get very old. I am tired of discussing IT. I am very, very tired of it. It is difficult not to gripe about IT because many think he is great. Should the gripers shut up and let the fan boys extol his virtues unchallenged? That is not in the spirit of a forum.

Should I comment on how great our team shot last night? OK, I will. Everyone on the team but two shot over 50% in a game we lost. When you look at the shooting stats this jumps out at you. One guy went 1-4 and hardly hurt the shooting stats. Landry is coming back from a long injury and hardly effected the game dramatically and had a legitimate excuse. Maybe you disagree. Another player took 21 shots and ruined what could have been a great shooting night and a probable win. What more am I to say? Can I say who shot so poorly?

I do not enjoy watching this team because it is not a team. When Cuz and Gay get back, I'll watch some more. They change the dynamic of the game to something that is very positive.

BTW, I was happy for Ben. As I didn't watch, I don't know how he hit 50% but it doesn't make much difference as 50% is good. I say something good about Ben and get criticized. Should I shut up about Ben?

 

[Glenn]

You guys are so dramatic

I see what I see, I like what I like, I dislike what I dislike, and I can be very emotional. For the most part I try to put a cap on the emotions. I DO try also to back up what I say. A one sentence shot of criticism does nothing to progress the conversation on this forum. I'm a ****ing fan. I am supposed to be dramatic. That's what a fan is.

 

[whozit]

I see what I see, I like what I like, I dislike what I dislike, and I can be very emotional. For the most part I try to put a cap on the emotions. I DO try also to back up what I say. A one sentence shot of criticism does nothing to progress the conversation on this forum. I'm a ****ing fan. I am supposed to be dramatic. That's what a fan is.

I'm going to be a hypocrite with this because I have been guilty in some of the years in the recent past of looking at the box score and just saying bleep this and not watching. Then there was no hope.

This year has been different, I have been disappointed when I have slipped and found out the score before I have watched the game (feeling my age in staying up until the morning). The last two games will help me appreciate the difference in having elite players on the court rather than not. Thomas is being exposed for what he is, a great role player and should be handled accordingly. Hopefully PDA noticed what them announcers from the other team noticed, whoever played defense would win. The team I root for didn't win.

 

[NewArena]

I see what I see, I like what I like, I dislike what I dislike, and I can be very emotional. For the most part I try to put a cap on the emotions. I DO try also to back up what I say. A one sentence shot of criticism does nothing to progress the conversation on this forum. I'm a ****ing fan. I am supposed to be dramatic. That's what a fan is.

Fair enough

I can be the same way lol totally not excluding myself