[Game] Kings vs Clippers, 11/8/2024 7pm PST 10pm EST

[iowamcnabb]

DDR has been great for us, but he needs to do a better job of looking for shooters. Reward your teammates with good looks and let them get into a rhythm with you. There's going to be nights where he's not automatic and I think that's where this team can learn to be more effective as an offensive unit. We should be a little less reliant on him to carry our offense.

Fox's fingers must be really bothering him because his handles seem very loose this year. What happened to his down-hill attacking? It's been missing for a couple seasons now. It seems like the ball gets poked away as he's driving, or he's opting for that brake and pop 4ft shot. We need him to attack the rim aggressively because it opens the floor to the spray 3s everyone keeps bringing up.

Maybe these two things can help our shooters find their shot?

The minutes played for our starters are a bit misleading tonight because there was a ton of stoppage time throughout the game, but I think Kevin needs to see more than 20mins, and we don't need to shave off Keon's minutes for that to happen.

Brown needs to find a way to introduce some minutes for McDermott. He's the best shooter on our team that severely needs 3pt shooting.

agreed. Regarding Fox, the only other time I remember seeing loose handles was during the Warriors playoff series. I think it’s for sure bothering him. I also think he doesn’t go to the rim as much is he doesn’t draw fouls like Deebo or Powell (gross) so he opts for the stop and pop instead. Didn’t necessarily feel like it but he had 31 tonight. Just didn’t get enough help

 

[KingsFanSince85]

3 for 26.

That’s all anybody has to know to understand why the KINGS lost this game.

 

[megapoxy]

Just realized Fox and Keon were 3-8 from 3. 0-16 for the rest of the team haha

0/18 actually

MB said he wanted the players to take more threes, expected at least 10 more from them.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Here's a random thought. Does anybody think the bench was better two seasons ago, when Metu was an option? An athletic power forward, who could also play the 5 and run the floor as a lob and shot block threat.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Here's a random thought. Does anybody think the bench was better two seasons ago, when Metu was an option? An athletic power forward, who could also play the 5 and run the floor as a lob and shot block threat.

seemed like it but he must drive coaches nuts, doesn’t stick anywhere and now he is in Barcelona. Trey was one of the better backup 4/5s the last couple years, we just aren’t getting anything from him. Can’t shoot, not really physical and can’t finish.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Well... it looks like the poor 3pt shooting finally caught up with us. 3 for 26 from deep and we only scored 98 points and lost by 9. Merely bad shooting would have been enough to win this one. Silver lining though, the Kings' FT shooting continues to be league-best!

*Bad* 3PT shooting (31%) and we win by 6. The modern game just doesn't have an "11.5% from three" allowance in it. I'd be interested to know when the last time was that a team shot that poorly from three and won. Might be the '80s.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

*Bad* 3PT shooting (31%) and we win by 6. The modern game just doesn't have an "11.5% from three" allowance in it. I'd be interested to know when the last time was that a team shot that poorly from three and won. Might be the '80s.

For the Kings at least, you have to go back to the '15 season. https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201411150SAC.html

Kings vs the spurs, the kings hit 0 out of 12 3s, Demarcus Cousins got 25 and 10, and the pace was a leisurely 93.3 possessions per 48.

For some reason, that made me think of Bricklayer, so I looked up the old grade thread https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/grades-v-spurs-11-15-2014.58292/

...I remembered the grade posts being better written

 

[New Era]

*Bad* 3PT shooting (31%) and we win by 6. The modern game just doesn't have an "11.5% from three" allowance in it. I'd be interested to know when the last time was that a team shot that poorly from three and won. Might be the '80s.

Trey looks like a guy who hasn't worked on his game, nor his body, and is stoned while he plays.

 

[megapoxy]

*Bad* 3PT shooting (31%) and we win by 6. The modern game just doesn't have an "11.5% from three" allowance in it. I'd be interested to know when the last time was that a team shot that poorly from three and won. Might be the '80s.

From the Clippers... last time they held a team to three 3 pointers was the Cavs in October of 2021 (3/20) but Clippers lost that match because they also shot terribly (9/41),final score was 79-91
https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401359888

Also from the Clippers-> Fox had 0 assists, 7 turnovers tonight. His 5th career game with no assists. Previous high in TOs in those games was 2. KD also had a 0 assist, 7 turnover game vs Clippers defense this season.

 

[Makaveli]

Trey looks like a guy who hasn't worked on his game, nor his body, and is stoned while he plays.

Omg I thought the same thing dude does not look all there

 

[twslam07]

Let’s not undersell how bad Fox has been.

29.1 from 3
5.1 assists to 3.8 turnovers.

It’s actually 4.6 ASTs and 4.1 TOs after last night (per 36 min, 4.4 ASTs and 4.0 TOs). Pretty horrendous for a PG let alone a star PG.

Compare that to last year where he averaged 5.7 ASTs and 2.6 TOs per 36 min. And he posted a higher usage % last year too (31.0% vs. 29.2%).

Sure, perhaps some of this is due to his finger injury but he doesn’t have the injury in both hands, right? I remember instances where he was driving with his right and he was stripped. I’m wondering if the spacing may be contributing to this as well. If the floor is not as spaced as it was last year (whether that be due to swapping DeRozan for Barnes or our shooters simply not hitting any shots right now), that means there are a lot more bodies in the paint to disrupt Fox’s dribble causing him to turn it over. And it does seem like a fair amount of these turnovers tend to come from a help defender vs. his primary defender (which again, could be a spacing issue).

I’ll have to keep a closer eye on this because the rate he is turning the ball over right now is absolutely killing us.

 

[iowamcnabb]

It’s actually 4.6 ASTs and 4.1 TOs after last night (per 36 min, 4.4 ASTs and 4.0 TOs). Pretty horrendous for a PG let alone a star PG.

Compare that to last year where he averaged 5.7 ASTs and 2.6 TOs per 36 min. And he posted a higher usage % last year too (31.0% vs. 29.2%).

Sure, perhaps some of this is due to his finger injury but he doesn’t have the injury in both hands, right? I remember instances where he was driving with his right and he was stripped. I’m wondering if the spacing may be contributing to this as well. If the floor is not as spaced as it was last year (whether that be due to swapping DeRozan for Barnes or our shooters simply not hitting any shots right now), that means there are a lot more bodies in the paint to disrupt Fox’s dribble causing him to turn it over. And it does seem like a fair amount of these turnovers tend to come from a help defender vs. his primary defender (which again, could be a spacing issue).

I’ll have to keep a closer eye on this because the rate he is turning the ball over right now is absolutely killing us.

I’ve said it a few times already but the only time I’ve seen Fox with this kind of loose handle was post injury against the warriors in the playoffs.

 

[Kingz19]

Missed the game but sounds like I’m fortunate

Woof at that three point shooting.

Only 3? How often has that happened to anybody in the last 15 years?

 

[kingsboi]

Missed the game but sounds like I’m fortunate

Woof at that three point shooting.

Only 3? How often has that happened to anybody in the last 15 years?

while not 3 makes, its basically the same considering the amount. the Magic shot 5-34 from three versus the Thunder on Monday

 

[Kingster]

Murray is his into his head far too much. His little gears are whirring, whirring, whirring, making him hesitate on his shot (DDR mentioned as much hesitation in the last night's presser), which in turn is causing him to miss. You can see it every time he gets the basketball he's THINKING. He needs to stop thinking and start shooting! See basketball; shoot basketball! It's up to Brown to kick him out of his head trip. Keegan's ratio of gonads to brain must go UP! Monk is 90% gonads, 10% brain, while Murray is playing like 20% gonads, 80% brain. UP the testosterone level and lower the cerebral fluid. Whatever it takes - get this kid out of his head trip!

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I’ve said it a few times already but the only time I’ve seen Fox with this kind of loose handle was post injury against the warriors in the playoffs.

It's always some type of nagging injury for Fox. If it's not his foot/ankle, then it's a finger that sounds like it could lingering issue all season. I fear them giving him another max deal, and not getting anywhere close to that value

 

[sactowndog]

It’s actually 4.6 ASTs and 4.1 TOs after last night (per 36 min, 4.4 ASTs and 4.0 TOs). Pretty horrendous for a PG let alone a star PG.

Compare that to last year where he averaged 5.7 ASTs and 2.6 TOs per 36 min. And he posted a higher usage % last year too (31.0% vs. 29.2%).

Sure, perhaps some of this is due to his finger injury but he doesn’t have the injury in both hands, right? I remember instances where he was driving with his right and he was stripped. I’m wondering if the spacing may be contributing to this as well. If the floor is not as spaced as it was last year (whether that be due to swapping DeRozan for Barnes or our shooters simply not hitting any shots right now), that means there are a lot more bodies in the paint to disrupt Fox’s dribble causing him to turn it over. And it does seem like a fair amount of these turnovers tend to come from a help defender vs. his primary defender (which again, could be a spacing issue).

I’ll have to keep a closer eye on this because the rate he is turning the ball over right now is absolutely killing us.

so while I have been critical of Fox’s AST/turnover ratio to be fair part of his problem is most of his assist game is get in the paint and kick out 3’s to open shooters.

when you look at actual assists 4.6 to potential assists 9.3 it becomes clear part of his problem is the horrendous 3 point shooting.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Woof at that three point shooting.

Only 3? How often has that happened to anybody in the last 15 years?

For the Kings, 2015 was the inflection point. Shooting performances that bad have almost never happened after that year, and they happen somewhat commonly before that year.

Seems like that's the point where teams stop trying to use the 3 as a bailout, and start turning it into the primary goal of the offense

 

[iowamcnabb]

It's always some type of nagging injury for Fox. If it's not his foot/ankle, then it's a finger that sounds like it could lingering issue all season. I fear them giving him another max deal, and not getting anywhere close to that value

Probably better than the other max players that miss huge stretches of games: Zion, PG,
Embiid, Klaw, Durant, Booker, Kyrie and a whole bunch of other guys.

The hope is we can get good enough where losing him or someone else for 5 games doesn’t break our season.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

What does it say about the Kings when they were dominated in all facets of the game today? They didn't even have their #1 guy.

Well, it's not true that y'all were dominated in all facets of the game: even with Fox's sloppiness, you committed significantly fewer turnovers, managed a push in FT disparity, even with the Bearded Hag's generous whistle, dominated the Clippers in points in the paint, had the edge in transition points and shot a better field goal percentage overall, even with the abysmal three-point shooting. A ton of things went wrong, for sure, but it's not like there weren't positives that could be taken from the game.

 

[Fantazija]

Our 3pt defense strategy just cannot be correct. It's open shooter after open shooter.

It's absolutely driving me nuts

 

[kingsboi]

It's always some type of nagging injury for Fox. If it's not his foot/ankle, then it's a finger that sounds like it could lingering issue all season. I fear them giving him another max deal, and not getting anywhere close to that value

even if Fox isn't in the long term plans, you have to sign him and then try to flip him when the inevitable happens

 

[The_Jamal]

so while I have been critical of Fox’s AST/turnover ratio to be fair part of his problem is most of his assist game is get in the paint and kick out 3’s to open shooters.

when you look at actual assists 4.6 to potential assists 9.3 it becomes clear part of his problem is the horrendous 3 point shooting.

Out of curiosity, do you have his potential assists the last few years?

But makes sense when the team across the board is basically shooting 7-8% worse on 3's. Going to ruin a lot of assists.

 

[sactowndog]

Out of curiosity, do you have his potential assists the last few years?

But makes sense when the team across the board is basically shooting 7-8% worse on 3's. Going to ruin a lot of assists.

you can find it on NBA Stats. 10.8 last year

 

[serbiangoat]

The Kings really need a hard nosed above average athlete type player in the back up SF/PF position , a Tari Eason /healthy Vanderbilt type would help this team alot

 

[The_Jamal]

you can find it on NBA Stats. 10.8 last year

Makes sense. Playmaking USG drop was expected with DDR on board. Doesn't excuse Fox's turnovers, but the assists look like they can be pretty easily explained.