Kings trading Evans for Vasquez/Lopez

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theclash4u5 said:
What? How about taking on a star player that rebuilding teams can't afford anymore? If we ditch Salmons, we will have almost 20M to work with AND we have our starting PG for next year. I don't get why so many people are so angry, Evans signed a big offer sheet and we weren't going to match it.
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if you're suggesting we should be happy at trading Reke at $11mil for Rudy Gay at $19mil, no, we're not.
 
Is anyone else wondering why Evans jumped so quickly at this Pelican's offer? He met with Atlanta and Detroit and supposedly no offers were made at the time. I believe Atlanta told him that they would make an offer to him if Dwight accepted their offer as he would be their 2nd/3rd star behind possibly Horford. We all know that Dwight to ATL isn't happening so it was probably a pipe dream to begin with. Why wouldn't Tyreke wait until the Dwight situation plays itself out and possibly go to a team like Dallas? I think his value around the league isn't nearly as high as the 4/$44 million that NO offered. The Kings have to realize this and figure that if the Tyreke back to PG move doesn't work out his trade value would be diminished because of the inflated salary. At that point we would be left with a MT-like situation where we would have to trade him for way less talent than even Vasquez. Let's wait to see how they use the capspace before we all panic.
 
Fresno King said:
In all seriousness, be patient with the process. I have no doubt this new regime is doing what it takes to bring a winner back to Sacramento. With possibly 20 mil in cap space, PDA will be making another move. Sign Iggy? Trade for Granger? Whatever it is, there are too many guards to not make another deal. I for one, will enjoy the ride and stay optimistic.
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AMEN!!!

 
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ockingsfan said:
He must be SOOOO good that NO went out and traded for Jrue Holiday? What are you seeing that the NO front office obviously did not seeing?
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Not entirely fair because anyone with half a brain would take Holiday OR Evans over Vasquez. And that's not even a knock on Vasquez, I think he's a good player, it's just not a fair statement to compare him to Jrue like that. Pelicans made the obvious choice.

Which takes me back to what I've been saying - this wasn't a fair talent swap and that was by design. PDA knows this as well. It was about not paying Evans that much money and getting something for an asset. I disagree with his assessment of Evans, but that was his mindset I'm sure.
 
theclash4u5 said:
What? How about taking on a star player that rebuilding teams can't afford anymore? If we ditch Salmons, we will have almost 20M to work with AND we have our starting PG for next year. I don't get why so many people are so angry, Evans signed a big offer sheet and we weren't going to match it.
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those players don't go to Sacramento unless we're already a contender. We're not so they won't Like I said, I'll eat crow if we sign Iggy ( I still think it's a downgrade from Reke), but in my opinion we could have 100 mil in cap space and still not land a star in free agency.
 
Showtime said:
I'm starting to wonder how many hornet games these fans have watched before passing judgement on Vasquez.
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kind of a lot, want my take? Vasquez, for a large part of the season was the focal point of NOLA's offense. They had no other creators whatsoever and heavily relied on him to create offense out of pick and rolls and occassional post ups. He was almost entirely surrounded by finishers, either on lobs like Aminu or Davis or on catch and shoots in Anderson. He did a good job on that, although his turnover rate is a bit worrying. He is, however, pretty limited because of his lacking footspeed and a downright terrible defender. The Pelicans most certainly did sell high on him and I don't expect him to be able to replicate what he did there last year on this Kings team.
 
I think all of you guys play too much NBA 2k, keeping Evans means eternal Iso basketball, especially if he was going to be starting at PG. Tyreke doesn't read the game well, doesn't play pick and roll well, runs into walls of defenders because he is so adamant about getting all the way to the rim. You only keep him if you're sure he is "the guy", the guy that will pull the strings for your team, because the way Tyreke plays, he HAS to be your best player. Thornton went from a guy that could score 20 on any night, to a guy that looked lost. Same thing was going to happen to McLemore. To get the best out of Tyreke he has to be extemely high usage. That is not a recipe for success.
 
Kings blew it.

I read through all 29 pages and I can't believe people are blaming Reke for the records Kings have had. Are we ignoring the fact that the coaches were straight dumb****s? Not to mention owners who could careless about what happened with the roster.

I'm beyond frustrated right now. After all those years dealing with the Maloofs, arena issues, **** coach after **** coach (Smart still gives me nightmares), I have yet to have this feeling of hopelessness as I do now.
 
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jcwkings said:
I think all of you guys play too much NBA 2k, keeping Evans means eternal Iso basketball, especially if he was going to be starting at PG. Tyreke doesn't read the game well, doesn't play pick and roll well, runs into walls of defenders because he is so adamant about getting all the way to the rim. You only keep him if you're sure he is "the guy", the guy that will pull the strings for your team, because the way Tyreke plays, he HAS to be your best player. Thornton went from a guy that could score 20 on any night, to a guy that looked lost. Same thing was going to happen to McLemore. To get the best out of Tyreke he has to be extemely high usage. That is not a recipe for success.
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Maybe... just maybe, you see how he plays under a real system. A lot of the time, he was told to play that way, and actually adjusted pretty well last season, when he had him off the ball a lot more.
 
Showtime said:
I'm starting to wonder how many hornet games these fans have watched before passing judgement on Vasquez.
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Well that's part of the problem with your average sports fan. They know their own team really well (and often times really over-value or really hate certain players) but they don't follow other teams closely enough to really know about other players.

Pete D'Alessandro is no dummy and seems like just weeks ago fans were enamored with him as the new GM. Now he makes his first bold move in trading one of "our guys" and people want to burn him at the stake. Just weeks ago people were talking about what a thinking-man he was and how he knew how to build a team and knew how to think multiple steps ahead. The proof was in the fact that he's helped do it with Denver over the last few years to the point of Denver being 10 quality players deep and almost overflowing with good players (granted they lack star-power.....sounds familiar?)

The irony here though is that D'Alessandro (a guy who has very recently helped build solid playoff teams) is getting criticized by fans of a team who have not been to the playoffs in years and was not even close to getting there. "Oh no PDA, what the hell are you doing! Don't trade one of 'our' guys because he's going to be a star and oh so valuable. We're going to suck without him......." - Says the fans of a team that keeps winning 20-30 games

In the words of Mike Bibby responding to Charles Barkley..... "how you know?"
 
bajaden said:
Maybe, just maybe, as I stated in another post, they didn't want Tyreke back. Maybe they never intended to resign him, but for obvious reasons couldn't say that. Maybe, they have a plan. A couple of weeks ago everyone on the fourm thought Malone, D'Allesandro, and Ranadive were the smartest people in the world, and now, 4 miserable days into freeagency, apparently their all just stupid idiots, and everyone here, is smarter! I'll pass judgement after freeagency is over, and the team were going forward for the season is complete.

As much as I like Tyreke, the world isn't going to end because he's gone. We didn't exactly dominate last year with him. Not laying all than on him, but the point is, he didn't make that much of a difference. No one did! Were breaking up a team thats only been capable of winning 25 or so games for the last few years, and everyone thinks the world is ending. Someone pointed out that every good team has at least two stars. Well, if you consider both Cousins and Tyreke stars, what the hell went wrong? The truth is, last year we stunk!! And on a team that stunk, no one is sacred! Except maybe Cousins, who I believe is a legit star.

I wish Tyreke all the best in the world. I wish it could have worked out for him here. But I've said from the beginning that I didn't think he'd be back. I hoped he would, but my gut told me otherwise. Its done, and I'm moving on. I could sit here and whine about it for the next few weeks, but you know what, the result will still be the same. He'll still be gone!
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You know that part that really bothers me?

If we end up not signing Cousins to a extension because he 'doesn't fit the culture of this team' then your above statement would be completely true of DMC as well.

Cousins has the ability to dominate the court if he keeps his head together, had good coaching, and is surrounded by players who maximize his game.
But the same can be said of Tyreke. People can point out Tyreke's flaws all they want...but the simple fact is that he is elite at an aspect of basketball that is critical to winning basketball games.

Now I like Vasquez...I liked him a lot at Maryland, but he was someone that I considered a late 1st/early 2nd pick-up. Not that draft position means anything in regards to whether someone will succeed in the NBA, but now I'm seeing people say that he's a top 10 PG, which is crazy. Until he blew up for NO last year...no-one would have said anything of the sort.

Another thing that people probably don't understand is that one of the reasons he was a late draft pick was due to his age. He's a couple years older than Tyreke right now. Perhaps for our locker room that additional age will be a good thing...but it's not as if we're getting a young player with a huge amount of room to grow.

What I do like most about Vasquez is his fiery attitude...reminded me a lot of Garcia...so he is a very different personality compared to Tyreke.

Anyway...no way in a million years would I trade Vasquez for Tyreke in a straight swap. People are talking about all the cap room that this will afford us. The problem is that cap room is useless unless spent on impact pieces. We had a ton of caproom and squandered it with Hayes/Outlaw/Johnson. Remember when Detroit fired-saled their guys for cap room and then blew that space on Charlie V. & Ben Gordon?

If we do end up making this S&T and then don't do something with huge impact with the cap space then this will have been a colossal failure by our FO.

I guess we'll have a lot to talk about at Summer League...
 
sergmatt said:
Well that's part of the problem with your average sports fan. They know their own team really well (and often times really over-value or really hate certain players) but they don't follow other teams closely enough to really know about other players.

Pete D'Alessandro is no dummy and seems like just weeks ago fans were enamored with him as the new GM. Now he makes his first bold move in trading one of "our guys" and people want to burn him at the stake. Just weeks ago people were talking about what a thinking-man he was and how he knew how to build a team and knew how to think multiple steps ahead. The proof was in the fact that he's helped do it with Denver over the last few years to the point of Denver being 10 quality players deep and almost overflowing with good players (granted they lack star-power.....sounds familiar?)

The irony here though is that D'Alessandro (a guy who has very recently helped build solid playoff teams) is getting criticized by fans of a team who have not been to the playoffs in years and was not even close to getting there. "Oh no PDA, what the hell are you doing! Don't trade one of 'our' guys because he's going to be a star and oh so valuable. We're going to suck without him......." - Says the fans of a team that keeps winning 20-30 games

In the words of Mike Bibby responding to Charles Barkley..... "how you know?"
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Please. Most of the loudest supporters of Reke watch a ton of nba, which is why they understand his value. This isn't the case of ignorant fans getting caught up in hometown bias.

Second PDA was never the main guy in den, he was a cap guy working for talent evaluators. We have nothing to measure him by as a FO head besides the moves so far. He wouldn't be the first guy better suited to a support role.

Finally, the Denver blueprint is how you guarantee a middle of the road team, precisely because they lack multiple star level talents. That isn't the recipe for long term success.
 
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NewArena said:
Maybe... just maybe, you see how he plays under a real system. A lot of the time, he was told to play that way, and actually adjusted pretty well last season, when he had him off the ball a lot more.
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So you pay $11 million for what will essentially be 2 or 3 more years of wait and see? Or do you take the already made pure pg and instantly start building up Cousins and McLemore? Because those were our options, re-sign Tyreke and hope he magically improves his basketball IQ, learns to shoot off the dribble, starts playing with a fire, or get a pg that will instantly make our entire roster better.
 
sergmatt said:
Well that's part of the problem with your average sports fan. They know their own team really well (and often times really over-value or really hate certain players) but they don't follow other teams closely enough to really know about other players.

Pete D'Alessandro is no dummy and seems like just weeks ago fans were enamored with him as the new GM. Now he makes his first bold move in trading one of "our guys" and people want to burn him at the stake. Just weeks ago people were talking about what a thinking-man he was and how he knew how to build a team and knew how to think multiple steps ahead. The proof was in the fact that he's helped do it with Denver over the last few years to the point of Denver being 10 quality players deep and almost overflowing with good players (granted they lack star-power.....sounds familiar?)

The irony here though is that D'Alessandro (a guy who has very recently helped build solid playoff teams) is getting criticized by fans of a team who have not been to the playoffs in years and was not even close to getting there. "Oh no PDA, what the hell are you doing! Don't trade one of 'our' guys because he's going to be a star and oh so valuable. We're going to suck without him......." - Says the fans of a team that keeps winning 20-30 games

In the words of Mike Bibby responding to Charles Barkley..... "how you know?"
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I agree with this. The resistance to change on the board is amusing considering the team has sucked for as long as Reke has been here. Reke is a good player but he isn't nearly as good as people here think he is.
 
ockingsfan said:
He must be SOOOO good that NO went out and traded for Jrue Holiday? What are you seeing that the NO front office obviously did not seeing?
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Because obviously they think Holiday is an upgrade (All Star, btw) and would create a logjam with two talented PG's that deserve to be starters. I guess you're just too used to logjams with the Kings. He was a top 5 PG last season in terms of production. He's a very good prospect and would make the team better with his style.
 
jcwkings said:
So you pay $11 million for what will essentially be 2 or 3 more years of wait and see? Or do you take the already made pure pg and instantly start building up Cousins and McLemore? Because those were our options, re-sign Tyreke and hope he magically improves his basketball IQ, learns to shoot off the dribble, starts playing with a fire, or get a pg that will instantly make our entire roster better.
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So you want to trade Evans since he didn't make the team better. And by better I assume you mean wins?

At the same time, you argue it's a good move since Vasquez makes teammates better, while playing for a less successful team.

Wait, what?
 
sergmatt said:
Well that's part of the problem with your average sports fan. They know their own team really well (and often times really over-value or really hate certain players) but they don't follow other teams closely enough to really know about other players.

Pete D'Alessandro is no dummy and seems like just weeks ago fans were enamored with him as the new GM. Now he makes his first bold move in trading one of "our guys" and people want to burn him at the stake. Just weeks ago people were talking about what a thinking-man he was and how he knew how to build a team and knew how to think multiple steps ahead. The proof was in the fact that he's helped do it with Denver over the last few years to the point of Denver being 10 quality players deep and almost overflowing with good players (granted they lack star-power.....sounds familiar?)

The irony here though is that D'Alessandro (a guy who has very recently helped build solid playoff teams) is getting criticized by fans of a team who have not been to the playoffs in years and was not even close to getting there. "Oh no PDA, what the hell are you doing! Don't trade one of 'our' guys because he's going to be a star and oh so valuable. We're going to suck without him......." - Says the fans of a team that keeps winning 20-30 games

In the words of Mike Bibby responding to Charles Barkley..... "how you know?"
Click to expand...

I would not lump the vast majority of people who are participating in this thread (on both sides of the issue and in the middle) into the "average sports fan" category. There are some really astute posters around here.

Everybody is posting first reactions. I think when we know all the details and the dust has a chance to settle we'll be looking at things a little less emotionally. At least we have something to talk about...
 
Showtime said:
Because obviously they think Holiday is an upgrade (All Star, btw) and would create a logjam with two talented PG's that deserve to be starters. I guess you're just too used to logjams with the Kings. He was a top 5 PG last season in terms of production. He's a very good prospect and would make the team better with his style.
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First he was top 10, now top 5. Go check all the PGs in the league and maybe revise that list. And remember there are two sides of the court and more to being a pg than passing.
 
sergmatt said:
Just weeks ago people were talking about what a thinking-man he was and how he knew how to build a team and knew how to think multiple steps ahead. [/I]
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Maybe his friends and family were blowing smoke up his ***, nobody else knew who he was. Well maybe except for the Nuggets, who rather pointedly were in no hurry to promote him after half the franchise left after another first round flameout.

He was an assistant GM. A numbers geek. Nothing more. What he did do or didn't do isn't info any of us have. Whether such a creature has any real ability to judge talent also isn't known. Each and every terrible GM in league history was a hotshot non-GM at some point, or they wouldn't have gotten the job. Then you put on the big boy pants and see whether you can fill them out. Right now those pants are so baggy on Pete that he looks like a clown. But I am going to hold off with several colorful photoshops until I see what happens with this capspace. Whether he can see a talent gap or not, as a numbers guy the caproom is the obvious plan here. But is it a plan coming together or a prayer based on faulty assessment of the Sacto market? We'll see.
 
sdballer said:
So you want to trade Evans since he didn't make the team better. And by better I assume you mean wins?

At the same time, you argue it's a good move since Vasquez makes teammates better, while playing for a less successful team.

Wait, what?
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Can you even read? Evans is an iso player that leads to everyone just standing around, he doesn't make his teammates better sans occasionaly being able to find an open shooter. Vasquez is a pure pg that will make Cousins, McLemore, Thornton even guys like JT and Patterson better. I'm not talking about wins, but imo we will have more wins with Vasquez maximizing the output of our other players, than Tyreke getting his at the detriment to the rest of the team. Vasquez will instantly improve ball movement, and when guys start getting their shots because a pure pg gets everyone involved, all of a sudden guys start playing hard on both ends. How many times did we Tyreke iso, now IT iso, then Thornton iso, than DMC iso. That isn't winning basketball.
 
so i had a chance to sleep on this, and i woke up even more pissed off. Tyreke was so fun to watch. and its just not right that he got so screwed over by the awful coaching and now he doesnt get the chance to play in a real system here.

PDA, you blew it. Vasquez is not that good.
 
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