[Game] Kings @ Timberwolves - Monday, Feb. 25 - 5PT/8ET

[KingsFanSince85]

Marvin. Wow. Solid all around. Outside of the full court turnover late in the game (could see that coming a mile away) just a great game. Say what you will about his defensive ability, the man battles and was the only one on the team that could keep Kat in order.

That was a play where De'Aaron Fox has to come get the ball from MB3. Late in the game, possessions at a premium and you get a stop -- the PG has to double-back for the ball. When Marvin first headed up the floor, he briefly hesitated then tried to make a full court move once nobody came open. Fox drifted up the left side of the court and also briefly hesitated before committing to getting out on the wing.

But Swipa surely has to double-back and make himself available. In fact, I contend he has to double back and demand the ball in that situation so a play can be set up. If he does that, I doubt Marvin still tries to make the play he did. That's something De'Aaron's got to learn.

 

[kb02]

1. Not a fan of the Burks, Bogi, Ferrell line up. All three need the ball to be at their best. Not sure how it's going to shake out.

2. I'm starting to hate Yogi's game. Dude over dribbles and gets destroyed on defense. And it's a nightmare when Burks is in the game with him. No spacing, both running to the same spots. Can Mason get a shot?

3. KAT destroys WCS every time. It's been that way since they both entered the league. I don't get it. WCS should be able to give him better competition.

4. Hats off to the Wolves defense. Hedging, jumping out on our guards, clogging the middle.

5. Buddy had some head scratching plays--throwing the ball between Brewer's legs, trying to dribble instead of grabbing a loose ball and loosing it out of bounds, failing to jump on the floor for a loose ball and subsequently having it go between his own legs. All signs of a dude trying to play a lil too fast.

 

[burekijogurt]

1. Not a fan of the Burks, Bogi, Ferrell line up. All three need the ball to be at their best. Not sure how it's going to shake out.

2. I'm starting to hate Yogi's game. Dude over dribbles and gets destroyed on defense. And it's a nightmare when Burks is in the game with him. No spacing, both running to the same spots. Can Mason get a shot?

3. KAT destroys WCS every time. It's been that way since they both entered the league. I don't get it. WCS should be able to give him better competition.

4. Hats off to the Wolves defense. Hedging, jumping out on our guards, clogging the middle.

5. Buddy had some head scratching plays--throwing the ball between Brewer's legs, trying to dribble instead of grabbing a loose ball and loosing it out of bounds, failing to jump on the floor for a loose ball and subsequently having it go between his own legs. All signs of a dude trying to play a lil too fast.

re Buddy, yeah I tought so too. the coach should have taken him out just to settle him down a bit and refocus him and then put him back in

 

[kingsboi]

Good god I forgot the Bucks were next.

Can we just skip this next game thread and start a game thread for the one after?

you might as well skip that one too because it's the Clippers

 

[kingsboi]

1. Not a fan of the Burks, Bogi, Ferrell line up. All three need the ball to be at their best. Not sure how it's going to shake out.

2. I'm starting to hate Yogi's game. Dude over dribbles and gets destroyed on defense. And it's a nightmare when Burks is in the game with him. No spacing, both running to the same spots. Can Mason get a shot?

3. KAT destroys WCS every time. It's been that way since they both entered the league. I don't get it. WCS should be able to give him better competition.

4. Hats off to the Wolves defense. Hedging, jumping out on our guards, clogging the middle.

5. Buddy had some head scratching plays--throwing the ball between Brewer's legs, trying to dribble instead of grabbing a loose ball and loosing it out of bounds, failing to jump on the floor for a loose ball and subsequently having it go between his own legs. All signs of a dude trying to play a lil too fast.

Mason got his shot. He failed. That ship has sailed. Yogi is the backup PG moving forward, he provides more.

 

[Kingster]

When Bjelica entered the game the Kings were up by 5. When he left the game Kings were up by 6.
In the next 3 minutes, with Bjelica on the bench, Minnesota goes on a 15-0 run. 15-0! Complete with 4 Kings turnovers in those 3 minutes and 1 technical. How many lousy plays did you count during that time?

They stayed even despite Bjelica's ineptitude. If they had Brewer in there for Bjelica they would have been up by 10! Bjelica was GAWDAWFUL and the only players he should play against for the rest of the season have got to be very slow and not an offensive threat. Other than that, bench him! Get him a nice cushion to sit on, maybe a recliner, and let him watch. His defense is consistently putrid, he makes stupid turnovers, and the only thing he can do occasionally is shoot a 3. You can get better players from the G league.

 

[Kingster]

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, Bjeli's are just more pronounced and more egregious than our other options at this point.

Pros: Can CANNOT shoot, is a capable rebounder, generally makes okay passes.
Cons: super slow footed, can't play defense, randomly decides to pass up open three pointers to make ill-fated drives to the rim like he thinks he's D-Wade.

He shot the ball at the beginning of the season before teams scouted him. Since then he's been terrible.

 

[burekijogurt]

They stayed even despite Bjelica's ineptitude. If they had Brewer in there for Bjelica they would have been up by 10! Bjelica was GAWDAWFUL and the only players he should play against for the rest of the season have got to be very slow and not an offensive threat. Other than that, bench him! Get him a nice cushion to sit on, maybe a recliner, and let him watch. His defense is consistently putrid, he makes stupid turnovers, and the only thing he can do occasionally is shoot a 3. You can get better players from the G league.

so his gawdawfulness in the 5 minutes he played in the second is responsible for the entirety of 4 points?! how bad were the players responsible for the 15-0 run in 3 minutes after he sat down? motherofgawdawful?

I understand you value your eye test high, but the collapse in the second quarter happened with him on the bench. and it happened quick.

 

[burekijogurt]

He shot the ball at the beginning of the season before teams scouted him. Since then he's been terrible.

again, 39.1% of threes he took in february he made. so the teams have scouted him down to 39% shooting from 3. how does this square with your claim that his shooting is terrible? his worst month from 3 is January at 36%. even that is not terrible.

 

[sactowndog]

He shot the ball at the beginning of the season before teams scouted him. Since then he's been terrible.

This take is so devoid of facts.

Since Feb 1, Beli is shooting 39.1% from 3 on 23 attempts (7 games)

The problem is Bogi shooting 20.5% on 44 attempts (9 games), Barnes shooting 23.3% on 30 attempts (7 games), and Joeger going with a small ball line-up to get them more shots.

Beli has a defensive rebounding % of 17 compared to Barnes at 12.8 and Bogi at 10.4.

It’s fundamental basketball to rebound the ball, to get the ball to your hot shooters. Yes Beli has to be covered on defense and Barnes can do that but we need shooting and rebounding!

 

[sactowndog]

again, 39.1% of threes he took in february he made. so the teams have scouted him down to 39% shooting from 3. how does this square with your claim that his shooting is terrible? his worst month from 3 is January at 36%. even that is not terrible.

It doesn’t square. Like many he has his favorite whipping boy, facts be dammed.

 

[FoxOnTheRun]

I’m a huge Bogi fan and want him to be a part of this team for years to come but something is not right with him right now. We can’t afford to have him try and ISO his way out of his months long slump. Take him out of the starting line up and put Brewer in there.

 

[Kingster]

This take is so devoid of facts.

Since Feb 1, Beli is shooting 39.1% from 3 on 23 attempts (7 games)

The problem is Bogi shooting 20.5% on 44 attempts (9 games), Barnes shooting 23.3% on 30 attempts (7 games), and Joeger going with a small ball line-up to get them more shots.

Beli has a defensive rebounding % of 17 compared to Barnes at 12.8 and Bogi at 10.4.

It’s fundamental basketball to rebound the ball, to get the ball to your hot shooters. Yes Beli has to be covered on defense and Barnes can do that but we need shooting and rebounding!

Here's some facts for you:

FIRST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 22.4 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 51%

LAST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 7.5 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 42%.

He's been scouted out of existence. Teams play him for the 3 pointer. They make him drive. He drives.....and then he has no idea what to do with the ball after he dribbles a couple of times. He's done. And that's only the offensive end. If Bjelica isn't scoring in big numbers and efficiently he's absolutely killing you because he couldn't guard a garden snail.

Joerger deserves a Medal of the Year for Patience to stick with the guy as long as he has. I hope that the only time we see him from here on out is in garbage time and when he's matched up with somebody as slow as he is, which would be a rare bird indeed.

 

[SacTownKid]

Here's some facts for you:

FIRST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 22.4 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 51%

LAST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 7.5 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 42%.

He's been scouted out of existence. Teams play him for the 3 pointer. They make him drive. He drives.....and then he has no idea what to do with the ball after he dribbles a couple of times. He's done. And that's only the offensive end. If Bjelica isn't scoring in big numbers and efficiently he's absolutely killing you because he couldn't guard a garden snail.

Joerger deserves a Medal of the Year for Patience to stick with the guy as long as he has. I hope that the only time we see him from here on out is in garbage time and when he's matched up with somebody as slow as he is, which would be a rare bird indeed.

With the way so many players have turned down looks from 3 to drive I find it extremely hard to believe that isn't part of the plan. Buddy is doing it more, Bjelica has done it, Barnes is doing it. There's too much smoke there. It sure looks like a don't settle mantra to me. And the Kings 3 point attempts continue to dip.

 

[Kings_of_California]

There's a few things that need to get better, some immediately (Barnes) and a few down the road (Giles):

1) Bogi needs to get it together. Stop playing iso ball. Be more of the playmaker you used to be. Don't try and be a hero all the time. Play your game. He's just trying to do way too much at times. Gather yourself young man.

2) Barnes needs to hit his open looks. His defense is a plus, but he simply has to hit the open shots he gets. You can't play 36 min or whatever he played last night and go 0-4.

3) Fox has consistency issues. He shot terribly last night and has had plenty of other games where his shot has been off, especially from distance.

4) Giles is sort of stagnating. Guy needs to add strength more than I need a new, better paying job.

5) WCS needs to give me a phone call and tell me who he is as a player because I cannot figure out what his true identity is. If someone were to ask me I'd be like, "Well, he kinda does like different stuff".

6) Burks has to do literally anything.

 

[jcwkings]

Rotation should be

Fox
Buddy
Bogi
Barnes
WCS

Yogi
Bogi
Brewer
Bagley
Giles

Cut the rotation down to 9 men. Bagley has been amazing but for THIS season his offensive punch and energy does wonders off the bench. The starting lineup provides great floor spacing for Fox and you can stagger Bogi to have him on the floor with the second unit.

 

[Suicide King]

1) Work on taking care of the ball. High turnovers = we lose every time

2) At least once every game we have two players going for the rebound near out of bounds and it always gets deflected out. It's great they are hustling, but someone call " I got it!" and the other guy back off

3) BIG ONE- As Doug likes to point out often, we have had several quarters where we have the advantage of the opponent being in the penalty, yet we fail to utilize it, like, at all. When opponents are in the penalty we need to go hard and often to the rim.

4) Make your free throws


All that said we are going somewhere good with this group and it is exciting

 

[kingdivac]

This team blew it....wa

Here's some facts for you:

FIRST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 22.4 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 51%

LAST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 7.5 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 42%.

He's been scouted out of existence. Teams play him for the 3 pointer. They make him drive. He drives.....and then he has no idea what to do with the ball after he dribbles a couple of times. He's done. And that's only the offensive end. If Bjelica isn't scoring in big numbers and efficiently he's absolutely killing you because he couldn't guard a garden snail.

Joerger deserves a Medal of the Year for Patience to stick with the guy as long as he has. I hope that the only time we see him from here on out is in garbage time and when he's matched up with somebody as slow as he is, tawhich would be a rare bird indeed.

His offense (read shooting) has certainly fallen off, but he plays defense better than some people are giving him credit; unlike some players, he generally will rotate to help when another player's been beaten. He rebounds the ball well for his size., and knows how to foul hard unlike Bogdan and the guards. He is very slow-a-foot and is not a great defender, but not terrible. When he gets caught on a switch unfortunately his lack of quickness is magnified. BL -- >He has to find his shot again. He may be able to, but he's got to get minutes to do that.

 

[reptilexcq2]

If the Warriors applied this logic, Klay would come off the bench. With the Sixers, Jimmy Butler or Harris come off the bench.

Bagley is our only low post threat and complements Fox and Hield well. The problem with today is WCS got into early foul trouble and came back in with the second unit that he rarely sees the floor with. That Buddy/Ferrell/Bjelica/Burks/WCS lineup was absolutely brutal

I am not saying he shouldn't start. There IS a logic for having him coming off the bench. He provides a spark for the bench with the flow and he keeps building the lead and he is going against a weaker player instead of the opponent's starter. If you want to talk about logic...that makes more logical sense if you want to exploit the other team. You see, there is only one ball to go around and it's either Hield, Bogi Barnes or Fox shooting and Bagley could potentially tire himself running up and down.

 

[Kingster]

With the way so many players have turned down looks from 3 to drive I find it extremely hard to believe that isn't part of the plan. Buddy is doing it more, Bjelica has done it, Barnes is doing it. There's too much smoke there. It sure looks like a don't settle mantra to me. And the Kings 3 point attempts continue to dip.

In part I do think it's part of the plan. No doubt Joerger wants to get to the line more, but not at the cost of having good shooters turning down good open shots. But you don't improve in getting to the line without bumps in the road. There's jagged progress until the team reaches a kind of equilibrium and at that point open three point shots aren't sacrificed, nor good 2 point shots for that matter. You can see this process going on with all the players, including Fox and Hield. It just takes time for them to know when and where to drive and when not to drive. The only way they learn is through game experience. They both will be better for it down the line.

The newer guys are in their own little learning process. I'm expecting/hoping this is the case with the new Kings players. What gets me is that Burks was four out of five from the field when he played against Miami, his first game as a King. He was the most efficient player on the floor! And then he starts learning the system and getting coached up and you can just see the gears whirring in his head and he becomes the Invisible Man out on the floor. And Barnes seems just as uncomfortable on the offensive end. (Hopefully, Brewer doesn't go down the same rabbit hole). Part of you just wants to say, forget about our system and go jack up some shots! But that's a short term view. Eventually, I think it will come together for them.

 

[reptilexcq2]

In today's NBA, the most lethal lineup is a lineup that involve a center that can dribble, run fastbreak, drive, shoot and rebound. That is why the Golden State Death Lineup is the best line up in today's game. Willie Cauley-Stein does not fit that bill. He can't shoot, can't run fast break and can't pass...that is a red flag in forming a Death Lineup. I say this is what we should do:

Start: Fox, Hield, Bogi, Barnes and Bagley.
All 5 can shoot, run fast break and pass. This is our Death Lineup. So if you're going to start Bagley, that's what we should do, play him at center imo. This is going to create havoc for the other team and I predict it is even harder to guard than the Golden State Death Lineup simply because we're the fastest team in the NBA!!

Average players like Cauley-Stein should be coming off the bench. Him and Giles should be good. You rest Fox, Bogi or Hield and Barnes and you put in Cauley-Stein, Giles, Corey (Burk sucks), Hield and Yogi. Cauley-Stein is the traditional center that doesn't work in today's NBA. That's why teams constantly looking to exploit him with pick n roll because they know he can't guard and also since he can't shoot, his man can just leave him and cheat or double other players.

 

[sactowndog]

Here's some facts for you:

FIRST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 22.4 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 51%

LAST 20 GAMES PLAYED FOR BJELICA: He averages 7.5 points a game with an aggregate average field goal percentage of 42%.

He's been scouted out of existence. Teams play him for the 3 pointer. They make him drive. He drives.....and then he has no idea what to do with the ball after he dribbles a couple of times. He's done. And that's only the offensive end. If Bjelica isn't scoring in big numbers and efficiently he's absolutely killing you because he couldn't guard a garden snail.

Joerger deserves a Medal of the Year for Patience to stick with the guy as long as he has. I hope that the only time we see him from here on out is in garbage time and when he's matched up with somebody as slow as he is, which would be a rare bird indeed.

Do you want to put that into context by dividing by minutes? And yes he had a cold streak but in the last 10 he is shooting 40.7 from 3 with a TS of 59.3.

 

[sactowndog]

In part I do think it's part of the plan. No doubt Joerger wants to get to the line more, but not at the cost of having good shooters turning down good open shots. But you don't improve in getting to the line without bumps in the road. There's jagged progress until the team reaches a kind of equilibrium and at that point open three point shots aren't sacrificed, nor good 2 point shots for that matter. You can see this process going on with all the players, including Fox and Hield. It just takes time for them to know when and where to drive and when not to drive. The only way they learn is through game experience. They both will be better for it down the line.

The newer guys are in their own little learning process. I'm expecting/hoping this is the case with the new Kings players. What gets me is that Burks was four out of five from the field when he played against Miami, his first game as a King. He was the most efficient player on the floor! And then he starts learning the system and getting coached up and you can just see the gears whirring in his head and he becomes the Invisible Man out on the floor. And Barnes seems just as uncomfortable on the offensive end. (Hopefully, Brewer doesn't go down the same rabbit hole). Part of you just wants to say, forget about our system and go jack up some shots! But that's a short term view. Eventually, I think it will come together for them.

Unfortunately Barnes was struggling from 3 before he got to the Kings. I don’t think this problem is just a Kings system thing.

 

[sactowndog]

In today's NBA, the most lethal lineup is a lineup that involve a center that can dribble, run fastbreak, drive, shoot and rebound. That is why the Golden State Death Lineup is the best line up in today's game. Willie Cauley-Stein does not fit that bill. He can't shoot, can't run fast break and can't pass...that is a red flag in forming a Death Lineup. I say this is what we should do:

Start: Fox, Hield, Bogi, Barnes and Bagley.
All 5 can shoot, run fast break and pass. This is our Death Lineup. So if you're going to start Bagley, that's what we should do, play him at center imo. This is going to create havoc for the other team and I predict it is even harder to guard than the Golden State Death Lineup simply because we're the fastest team in the NBA!!

Average players like Cauley-Stein should be coming off the bench. Him and Giles should be good. You rest Fox, Bogi or Hield and Barnes and you put in Cauley-Stein, Giles, Corey (Burk sucks), Hield and Yogi. Cauley-Stein is the traditional center that doesn't work in today's NBA. That's why teams constantly looking to exploit him with pick n roll because they know he can't guard and also since he can't shoot, his man can just leave him and cheat or double other players.

True shooting percentage last 10 games

Your starters who can shoot?
Barnes 44.5 NBA rank 354
Bogdanovic 47.7 NBA rank 335
Fox 50.4. NBA Rank 299
Bagley 56.3 NBA Rank 200
Hield 60.1. NBA Rank 134


Other Kings
Giles. 60.1. NBA Rank 136
WCS. 59.6. NBA Rank 148
Brewer 58.2 NBA Rank 168
Ferrell 58.5 NBA Rank 163
Bjelicia 59.3 NBA Rank 151

In the last 10 games Bogi and Barnes are among the worst shooters percentage wise in the NBA not just on the Kings. Playing both lots of minutes together is our death line-up. Death to our playoff chances.

 

[dude12]

The starting lineup and rotation should be:
Whatever Joerger says it should be.....data heads are drowning in numbers. Data doesn’t take into account who you are going up against, does it? Data is not the end all. Who you matchup against is rather an important piece to the puzzle. For some of these players, there is no rhyme or reason why they have a good game or bad game......WCS is a coin flip, Bogi has been somewhat of a mystery on performance, etc, etc

 

[Kingster]

Unfortunately Barnes was struggling from 3 before he got to the Kings. I don’t think this problem is just a Kings system thing.

It may be a combination of a shooting slump and a system thing.

 

[Kingster]

Do you want to put that into context by dividing by minutes? And yes he had a cold streak but in the last 10 he is shooting 40.7 from 3 with a TS of 59.3.

No, I don't. The minutes have been reduced because of the decrease in productivity of Bjelica; Bjelica's decrease in productivity is not caused by reduced minutes.