Kings talking Tyreke trade???
- Thread starter BMiller52
- Start date
I can totally understand what you're saying and a trade like that is a definite risk, but I think if you really want to make something happen, you have to roll the dice a little bit. One thing that you need to come to terms with, is that if Charlotte KNOWS it's the No.1 or No.2 pick , I seriously doubt they would trade that away. Even for Tyreke Evans. Right now, they don't KNOW which pick they are going to end up with. Is it likely a top 5 pick? Absolutely, but it could be No.1 overall, or No.2 or whatever. Charlotte doesn't know for sure right now, and they might be willing to gamble it. If we wait for the offseason, Tyreke will bring even less back. We can't wait that long. (Unless they put him back in as the starting PG, and let him totally dominate the rest of the season, just so we can inflate his value for a trade)
If we are going to try to take some of Charlotte's picks, and possibly Bismack, then we need to strike before the trade deadline. What about a deal like this:
We give up
Tyreke Evans
their choice of Jason Thompson or J.J. Hickson
We get:
2012 1st round pick
2013 1st round pick
Bismack Biyombo
I would be willing to roll the dice on that deal. I know it's risky, but we just might hit the freaking jackpot. Anything is possible. What if Charlotte ends up with the worst record overall in back to back years, and get's the No.1 pick this year, and say the No.2 or No.3 pick next year? Our franchise could be a SIGNIFICANT threat by the time our new Downtown arena is ready. Think about it. Anthony Davis, Harrison Barnes or maybe Drummond this year, and who knows who we end up with in 2013. Also, we get a young prospect in Bismack Biyombo. I doubt that Charlotte would want to give all that up to get Tyreke and either Hickson or Thompson, but I do think that we could trade Reke straight up for either Bismack and one No.1 pick or just two No.1 picks. It would be nice to get 3 talented players for Tyreke.
I think we might get their 2012 first but that'd be about it. No way we'd get anything else out of them. Other teams and their fans don't really see Tyreke in the same light as we do. A lot of people on sites like real gm think he's a chucking black hole with no jumpshot and stuff. Part of that's not true and overly harsh because he's still a young player, but part of it is a legitimate criticism and while he can improve on things there's no guarantee that he ever will. People look at a young player all the time and think about how much better a player can get if they add certain things to their game etc, but in many cases guys stay the same type of player. Look at a guy like Carmelo Anthony, sure his J improved somewhat(and it was still a lot better than Tyreke's is when he first came into the league and such) and he's a slightly better defender, but in the end he's still a high volume shooter who needs a lot of posessions to score a lot of points, slows the game down, doesn't defend very well, and doesn't really make teammates a lot better. So while you can technically build a team around him, those players are really going to have to compliment his skill set and do specific things that he doesn't do, and he's not going to make them play better because they're not going to have the ball most of the time and the ball isn't going to be moving all around the court.
I remember when Larry Hughes signed on to be LeBron's 2nd fiddle in Cleveland and a lot of people said "well if he improves his shooting he can be the perfect compliment to LeBron". His game was actually kind of similar to Reke's, horrible outside game, good slasher, good ball handler, decent passer, pretty good defender when he wanted to be. Instead of taking the next step and being LeBron's Pippen, his game fell off a cliff because Arenas and Jamison really complimented him by spreading the floor and he got to handle the ball. Then he comes to Cleveland and he doesn't have the ball as much and the floor isn't spaced as well, he's a lot less effective and his game rapidly deteriorated. Same with Steve Francis when he lost his boy Cuttino Mobley. I know a lot of people are going to get friggin pissed at me for comparing a 22 year old Tyreke to these guys because in history these guys have ended up not being stars or really top tier players, and turned out to be stereotypes of players you don't want your guy to be, but they were still good players. Those guys both scored 20+ PPG, 5+ RPG, between 4-7 APG(just below 4 PG for Hughes career avg, around 6-7 for Francis), and each made over 80 million dollars(84 for Hughes, 103 for Francis). Also, in Hughes case he was a pretty good defender.
The more that I think about it, the more I think Tyreke is going to kind of struggle to play with Cousins. Tyreke needs the ball a lot to be effective, so does Cousins. Cousins needs a PG/play maker whose main goal is getting him the ball at the elbow or deep in the post, hopefully over time as he adds some skill to his post game we feed him down low more than up high. Cousins also needs a player who spaces the floor well so he has room to operate. Tyreke clogs the floor for Cousins because he's not a threat to hit open shots so his man can come in on Cousins at times. Cousins makes Tyreke's job harder because Tyreke wants to operate the paint, and he needs a 4-5 who isn't going to be spending all his time down low dragging an extra defender to the rim. I don't really see this whole thing getting better between the 2 of them because their games and their goals aren't really complimentary of eachother, and I kind of don't think they ever will be. So then you have to decide, are you better off basing your team around a franchise big man and trying to build a system around him, or are you better off building your team around a guard who has to fight to get in the paint all the time and do it himself and you're going to need shooters and defenders around him. For me the answer is kind of simple, you build around Cuz because franchise big men are simple and 15-20 PPG wing players are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Matter of fact, we have one on our team already besides Tyreke and his name is Marcus Thornton. He actually compliments Cousins a lot better because he spaces the floor.
I would probably try to trade Tyreke for a 3 who fits our team or a really athletic 4 like Josh Smith. Guy would need to be a really good player though, and compliment our team. Wouldn't want another guard back because we have enough of those already. Eventually you need to stop collecting those and make a decision to go with the guys you have. I would trade Tyreke for a top 3 or top 4 pick and nothing less, mainly because I am pretty sure that Barnes, Drummond, Davis, and Kidd Gilchrist will all be better than him. But he is still a good player who you can build a team around, so you don't want to trade him for crappy value. He just might not be a great fit for our team IMO.
btw before anyone calls me out for being a Reke hater, I was the only person yelling his name in the draft party of 2009. Everyone else was on the Rubio band wagon and I was yelling Tyreke's name, I named my realgm.com username after him, and I almost got his jersey. I think he seems like a nice guy and a good player in general, but I also thought he'd have improved his shooting a lot more by now and would have had a post game. So he has kind of dissappointed me, and I'm not blind to where he falls short.
I remember when Larry Hughes signed on to be LeBron's 2nd fiddle in Cleveland and a lot of people said "well if he improves his shooting he can be the perfect compliment to LeBron". His game was actually kind of similar to Reke's, horrible outside game, good slasher, good ball handler, decent passer, pretty good defender when he wanted to be. Instead of taking the next step and being LeBron's Pippen, his game fell off a cliff because Arenas and Jamison really complimented him by spreading the floor and he got to handle the ball. Then he comes to Cleveland and he doesn't have the ball as much and the floor isn't spaced as well, he's a lot less effective and his game rapidly deteriorated. Same with Steve Francis when he lost his boy Cuttino Mobley. I know a lot of people are going to get friggin pissed at me for comparing a 22 year old Tyreke to these guys because in history these guys have ended up not being stars or really top tier players, and turned out to be stereotypes of players you don't want your guy to be, but they were still good players. Those guys both scored 20+ PPG, 5+ RPG, between 4-7 APG(just below 4 PG for Hughes career avg, around 6-7 for Francis), and each made over 80 million dollars(84 for Hughes, 103 for Francis). Also, in Hughes case he was a pretty good defender.
The more that I think about it, the more I think Tyreke is going to kind of struggle to play with Cousins. Tyreke needs the ball a lot to be effective, so does Cousins. Cousins needs a PG/play maker whose main goal is getting him the ball at the elbow or deep in the post, hopefully over time as he adds some skill to his post game we feed him down low more than up high. Cousins also needs a player who spaces the floor well so he has room to operate. Tyreke clogs the floor for Cousins because he's not a threat to hit open shots so his man can come in on Cousins at times. Cousins makes Tyreke's job harder because Tyreke wants to operate the paint, and he needs a 4-5 who isn't going to be spending all his time down low dragging an extra defender to the rim. I don't really see this whole thing getting better between the 2 of them because their games and their goals aren't really complimentary of eachother, and I kind of don't think they ever will be. So then you have to decide, are you better off basing your team around a franchise big man and trying to build a system around him, or are you better off building your team around a guard who has to fight to get in the paint all the time and do it himself and you're going to need shooters and defenders around him. For me the answer is kind of simple, you build around Cuz because franchise big men are simple and 15-20 PPG wing players are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Matter of fact, we have one on our team already besides Tyreke and his name is Marcus Thornton. He actually compliments Cousins a lot better because he spaces the floor.
I would probably try to trade Tyreke for a 3 who fits our team or a really athletic 4 like Josh Smith. Guy would need to be a really good player though, and compliment our team. Wouldn't want another guard back because we have enough of those already. Eventually you need to stop collecting those and make a decision to go with the guys you have. I would trade Tyreke for a top 3 or top 4 pick and nothing less, mainly because I am pretty sure that Barnes, Drummond, Davis, and Kidd Gilchrist will all be better than him. But he is still a good player who you can build a team around, so you don't want to trade him for crappy value. He just might not be a great fit for our team IMO.
btw before anyone calls me out for being a Reke hater, I was the only person yelling his name in the draft party of 2009. Everyone else was on the Rubio band wagon and I was yelling Tyreke's name, I named my realgm.com username after him, and I almost got his jersey. I think he seems like a nice guy and a good player in general, but I also thought he'd have improved his shooting a lot more by now and would have had a post game. So he has kind of dissappointed me, and I'm not blind to where he falls short.
Just picking on your part about needing the ball.. How then did Wade and Shaq or Kobe and Shaq make it work? Both guys needed their touches. One team did it with Fisher as the PG, a guy who could handle the ball but pretty much was assigned to bring the ball u and give it to one of the two stars. Same with Jwill in Miami. Shaq was an inside player, and so are Wade and Kobe to this day, though both have better outside games than Tyreke. Of course, those two guys are also unquestionable superstars, so if Tyreke even makes it to that level we wouldn't need to talk about whether his game complements Cousins'. In fact, I think a guy like Cousins is even better for Reke than someone like Shaq, because DMC has the ability to step outside as well and play pretty effectively from the high post.
The fact is, you need 2 superstars to win. Tyreke is one jumpsuit away from being pretty darn close. Cousins is quite a given. Thornton is never going to be one because he's undersized at the 2 and right now is just as much of a blackhole as people make Tyreke out to be. But again, it all comes down to whether Tyreke can get a consistent jumpshot. If by his 4th or 5th year he doesn't then yeah we can give up on him. Cousins also has a long way to go btw to lead the team to winning.
The fact is, you need 2 superstars to win. Tyreke is one jumpsuit away from being pretty darn close. Cousins is quite a given. Thornton is never going to be one because he's undersized at the 2 and right now is just as much of a blackhole as people make Tyreke out to be. But again, it all comes down to whether Tyreke can get a consistent jumpshot. If by his 4th or 5th year he doesn't then yeah we can give up on him. Cousins also has a long way to go btw to lead the team to winning.
Kobe has always had a way better outside game than Tyreke though. Part of the thing with that is yeah Kobe drove the ball, but he could stroke it deep too so he stilled pulled guys out to the 3 point line to give Shaq room to dominate. Not to mention even if Demarcus becomes an all time great, he and Shaq are just physically different. Shaq could score against double teams by forcing contact and just powering through guys. Cousins has some moves but he's not as big or as athletic as Shaq was, he's going to need room to go 1 on 1.
Wade is so much more athletic than Tyreke. He's been a lot more explosive than Reke, plus a better passer and can actually run an offense rather than just creating for guys. But the main thing is his athleticism and forcing contact with defenders. Tyreke isn't nearly as explosive as Wade and has more of a finesse game. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm not saying to trade him right now or anything unless we get a deal that knocks our socks off or anything, but he's not untouchable to me either.
Wade is so much more athletic than Tyreke. He's been a lot more explosive than Reke, plus a better passer and can actually run an offense rather than just creating for guys. But the main thing is his athleticism and forcing contact with defenders. Tyreke isn't nearly as explosive as Wade and has more of a finesse game. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm not saying to trade him right now or anything unless we get a deal that knocks our socks off or anything, but he's not untouchable to me either.
All excellent points. I just don't know if we don't give the kid one more summer to see if he can get his jump shot much improved. I guess that is the key - can it improve, or can it not improve? That is the question. If the Kings did trade him, I'd have to assume their braintrust figured that it was irreperable. By the way, I too, was clamoring to get this kid in the draft before anybody else on this board, so it's not that I wasn't invested either. But like you say, you can't have blinders on.
All excellent points. I just don't know if we don't give the kid one more summer to see if he can get his jump shot much improved. I guess that is the key - can it improve, or can it not improve? That is the question. If the Kings did trade him, I'd have to assume their braintrust figured that it was irreperable. By the way, I too, was clamoring to get this kid in the draft before anybody else on this board, so it's not that I wasn't invested either. But like you say, you can't have blinders on.
The real question is will he put in the work to make his jumpshot better? Right now, in his 3rd year, he has accomplished nothing in the improvement category. He is happy with working out with a trainer that is out of his league and listening to his brothers about shooting it with confidence, and that is not a winner in my eyes. His rookie year was great, his 2nd a year a disappointment, and the trend continues this season. All of the same weaknesses are still there. I love the kid, but weaknesses will not remedy themselves. I respect those that put in the work simple as that.
Where do people come up with these things? Do they just sit aorund in your room and pretend they hang out with Tyreke? Do they follow twitter reports and presume to know what went on during the summer? Have they ever met his trainer(s)? Do they even know who they are, or know how they rank in the industry?
Well he still works out with Lamont Peterson, but the man has never trained anyone in the NBA before. It is a different ball game. If Tyreke had another trainer, I suspect we would have heard about it in 2+ years. Yes, he attends sessions with D-Rose and Westbrook, but those don't ever really last that long. I would love to see Tyreke hire a real shooting coach. Smart is working with him in that regard, but Smart is a coach and has other duties to do as well. In regards to his brothers, I remember reading something that someone posted that stated that his brothers told him to shoot with confidence like he did in high school.
A few opinions:
* I am totally open to trading Tyreke. I think he doesn't have the right attitude to win in the NBA, and has proven he is not motivated to add to his game. If he doesn't add a jumpshot to his game, his career will be crippled.
* Having said that, if the Kings don't get a GREAT player by trading Tyreke, than it's not worth it currently. You don't give Tyreke up for a roleplayer, or for someone who needs to get better to succeed.
There is still the chance that if Tyreke can add a jumpshot to his game, he can be a great player. You simply don't give up on that promise without getting properly compensated.
* I'm shocked to hear everyone here mentioning Trading Tyreke for a younger player (or draft pick).
Unless it's for a #1 (won't happen), the odds aren't with you that the player will be as good as Tyreke is (even with his limitations).
* I'm shocked people here are saying the Kings couldn't get a proven All-Star by trading Tyreke.
I don't follow NBA trade rumors much, but there are teams that are shopping their All-Stars: Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Derron Williams, etc
I know the Kings were reported to have a good shot this past summer at Parker with primarily the #7 pick as the trade.
I believe the Kings could get a game-changer with Tyreke + other stuff (like a high draft pick), and I think the Kings would be a much better team with a player like Rondo or Parker than with Tyreke.
The Kings NEED to top stockpiling young "talent" and get a proven vet winner, NOW.
* I am totally open to trading Tyreke. I think he doesn't have the right attitude to win in the NBA, and has proven he is not motivated to add to his game. If he doesn't add a jumpshot to his game, his career will be crippled.
* Having said that, if the Kings don't get a GREAT player by trading Tyreke, than it's not worth it currently. You don't give Tyreke up for a roleplayer, or for someone who needs to get better to succeed.
There is still the chance that if Tyreke can add a jumpshot to his game, he can be a great player. You simply don't give up on that promise without getting properly compensated.
* I'm shocked to hear everyone here mentioning Trading Tyreke for a younger player (or draft pick).
Unless it's for a #1 (won't happen), the odds aren't with you that the player will be as good as Tyreke is (even with his limitations).
* I'm shocked people here are saying the Kings couldn't get a proven All-Star by trading Tyreke.
I don't follow NBA trade rumors much, but there are teams that are shopping their All-Stars: Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Derron Williams, etc
I know the Kings were reported to have a good shot this past summer at Parker with primarily the #7 pick as the trade.
I believe the Kings could get a game-changer with Tyreke + other stuff (like a high draft pick), and I think the Kings would be a much better team with a player like Rondo or Parker than with Tyreke.
The Kings NEED to top stockpiling young "talent" and get a proven vet winner, NOW.
I don't think Lamont Peterson is one of the top trainers in the country. A guy like that is Rob McClanahan or Tim Grover, top places to train are places like ATTACK in Chicago. Not a big fan of Tyreke being trained by LaMont Peterson, even though I follow Lamont on twitter.But yeah, as far as I know he's not really training with the guys Kobe or Wade train with.
Yet another reason why it showed how many Kings fans don't know what this team needs.
There were SO many fans that didn't want to trade for PArker when it was reported that Tony PArker (with or without Richard Jefferson) could be traded for (IIRC) #7 pick (+ Cisco) + small piece.
What would this team be like if they had spent the money and pulled the trigger on a deal like that with the Spurs, as rumored?
There were SO many fans that didn't want to trade for PArker when it was reported that Tony PArker (with or without Richard Jefferson) could be traded for (IIRC) #7 pick (+ Cisco) + small piece.
What would this team be like if they had spent the money and pulled the trigger on a deal like that with the Spurs, as rumored?
Is there anything to indicate that the trade was close enough to being a done deal that we rejected it? Not to mention, a lot of Parker's success can be attributed to playing on a hyper-established team (I'm pretty sure Duncan's been around since the Stone Age by this point) with, by all accounts, one of the top coaches in all of sports today.
Couldn't the reverse also hold true though? You could say that people want the trade because they're more concerned about one player than the team. Saying that Tyreke is the team's biggest problem at this point is kind of like saying that Whitney Houston's biggest problem was the fact that her records weren't selling.