Kings & Sonics - same level of talent?
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Ray Allen34
Bench
we lost AD, James and Nate
but we gained a very good promising talent in Petro who has been very impressive, added mikki moore and brought back everyone else
kings gained a few nice talented guys but also lost a few..mobley and evans.
the kings starting 5 looks purely offense...only guy who can even play anything close to defense is bonzi wells. we weren't prefect defensively last year but we were ok. defense is going to be the kings main problem. bonzi wells could go either way, he has alot to prove this year as does SAR who has not proved he can do anything but send teams to the lottery
but we gained a very good promising talent in Petro who has been very impressive, added mikki moore and brought back everyone else
kings gained a few nice talented guys but also lost a few..mobley and evans.
the kings starting 5 looks purely offense...only guy who can even play anything close to defense is bonzi wells. we weren't prefect defensively last year but we were ok. defense is going to be the kings main problem. bonzi wells could go either way, he has alot to prove this year as does SAR who has not proved he can do anything but send teams to the lottery
No. They're a pretty good team, that will still be competitive, but I wouldn't say on the Kings level. Ray/Lewis/Ridnour/Vlad/Evans/Collison.
They better not let Radmanovic get his way and start him. After reading he still wants to start.
Yeah that's who they lost.
Potapenko could be lost to injury again (hamstring), and like last season he was supposed to be the starting center, but got hurt before the season started.
Mikki Moore (tall, lanky center from Clippers, got injured in camp), Rick Brunson (combo guard journey man from Clippers, not what they expected so far at all, brought in to back-up Ridnour), Johan Petro (R1 pick center, has shown he can block shots and get some boards so far, I'm intrigued by him).
One of the camp guys, Alex Scales (combo guard) or Noel Felix (PF) could get signed, as they like both.
They better not let Radmanovic get his way and start him. After reading he still wants to start.
nebs said:
Yeah that's who they lost.
Potapenko could be lost to injury again (hamstring), and like last season he was supposed to be the starting center, but got hurt before the season started.
Mikki Moore (tall, lanky center from Clippers, got injured in camp), Rick Brunson (combo guard journey man from Clippers, not what they expected so far at all, brought in to back-up Ridnour), Johan Petro (R1 pick center, has shown he can block shots and get some boards so far, I'm intrigued by him).
One of the camp guys, Alex Scales (combo guard) or Noel Felix (PF) could get signed, as they like both.
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Ray Allen34 said:
Considering Mobley never really fit into our scheme of things, "losing" him isn't really that big of a deal. Bonzi is a definite step up in that he has already shown he can fit into our mode of play better than Cat did, and it's still just the pre-season.
As far as Reef goes, he doesn't have to be the main man around here. What he is already showing is that he can be a contributing team player, which is what we look for more anyway.
Saying SAR sends teams to the lottery is without basis in fact IMHO since one player cannot have that much influence on a well-balanced team.
Time and time again, Petrie has brought players to our team that have stepped up and played their best ball ever while wearing Kings purple. I think Bonzi and SAR could well be the two latest to add their names to the list.
Ray Allen34
Bench
Yoda said:
pure garbage
no team with two all-stars, a good young PG and great depth will be in the lottery.
Yoda
Bench
Hey now...watch it...Ray Allen34 said:
1 boarderline allstar (who shouldnt have been)- very inconsistent. Lets see what Ray Allen does now that it is not a contract year.
Luke is a below average NBA point guard
That depth you are talking about is a pipe dream.
McMillan meant more to this team then you I think you realize. He made something out of nothing last year.
Rosters:
Bibby
Bonzi
Peja
SAR
Miller
-----(going by position)
Hart
Price (DL)
Martin
Garcia
Corliss
Thomas
Skinner
Sampson
Ridnour
Ray
Rashard
Evans (how it should be anyways)
Petro/Mikki Moore
-----
Rick Brunson
Flip Murray
Damien Wilkins
Vlad Radmanovic
Nick Collison
Danny Fortson
Petro/Moore (Moore injured, not sure how long he's out)
Robert Swift
Vitaly Potapenko (injured)
Cleaves or Scales or Felix? (camp invitees)
Kings only want to have 13 players.
Bibby
Bonzi
Peja
SAR
Miller
-----(going by position)
Hart
Price (DL)
Martin
Garcia
Corliss
Thomas
Skinner
Sampson
Ridnour
Ray
Rashard
Evans (how it should be anyways)
Petro/Mikki Moore
-----
Rick Brunson
Flip Murray
Damien Wilkins
Vlad Radmanovic
Nick Collison
Danny Fortson
Petro/Moore (Moore injured, not sure how long he's out)
Robert Swift
Vitaly Potapenko (injured)
Cleaves or Scales or Felix? (camp invitees)
Kings only want to have 13 players.
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Ray Allen34
Bench
Yoda said:
lewis may of been inconsistant a few years ago but he wasn't last year. he was a 20 and 5 guy all year
ray allen puts up the same numbers even in non contract years. your knowledge about ray allen is clearly not very high if you think he put those numbers up just because it was a contract year. infact he had better overall numbers two years ago..he just got more credit due to the wins
luke is a below average PG? please..luke was great last year and was a big reason why we won the divison. him running the point and his overall game was why we improved so much.
the depth we have is one of the best in the NBA...pipe dream? please..it's clear you are a hater
nate two years ago was close to getting fired, it was more about the team knowing their roles and playing as a team..nate will be missed but not that much
Ray Allen34
Bench
Yoda said:
that bench has at least 4 guys who can come in and give you anywhere from 10-20 points on any given night
yet it sucks? riight
are you new to the NBA?
Ray Allen34
Bench
flip murray was a 20 point scorer during ray's injury
radman could of won 6th man of the year had he not got injured
wilkins proved when lewis was out he could score and do other things....think he averaged around 10-13 a game during that time
fortson had a habit of getting 10-12 a game off the bench..sometimes maybe more.
radman could of won 6th man of the year had he not got injured
wilkins proved when lewis was out he could score and do other things....think he averaged around 10-13 a game during that time
fortson had a habit of getting 10-12 a game off the bench..sometimes maybe more.
Ray Allen34 said:
Radmanovic, yes, Flip (depends how Weiss likes him in how he doesn't play d though), yes, Wilkins, maybe (still has to prove himself, more than a handful of nice games, and a whole season playing behind Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen, and next to Radmanovic).
Brunson hasn't proven anything with the Sonics yet, and from what I've read they're disappointed with him so far. I expect that to change though, but who knows what his role will be other than playmaking and some d.
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mr. moustache
Bench
A little cocky eh? that team tore us up. Luke is a good PG. Losing daniels will be big. James is a dog, he only played well against us.
Yoda said:
Gary
All-Star
The Sonics are no where near the Kings this year.
Bibby >> Luke
Wells << Allen
Peja = Lewis
SAR > Evans
Miller >> (whoever goes here)
Coaching of course going to the Kings
Chemistry going to the Kings
Bench going to the Kings
Playoff exp going to the Kings
Clearly Sac is going to be a better team this year. If there was a way to bet on who would be better, I would bet the house on the Kings. That's how confident I am.
Bibby >> Luke
Wells << Allen
Peja = Lewis
SAR > Evans
Miller >> (whoever goes here)
Coaching of course going to the Kings
Chemistry going to the Kings
Bench going to the Kings
Playoff exp going to the Kings
Clearly Sac is going to be a better team this year. If there was a way to bet on who would be better, I would bet the house on the Kings. That's how confident I am.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Sonics should be a good team this year. But if this is a question of talent, plain and simple, then we dominate over the Sonics. But this game isn't always about talent, we have to see how we match up against the Sonics with our new team. May be a bad matchup, may not be.
I don't expect the Sonics to completely fall off the map this year. Then again, they could, and then again so could we.
I don't expect the Sonics to completely fall off the map this year. Then again, they could, and then again so could we.
Sonics played so well against us because we were together as a team for the first time at the start of the playoffs, had 20 different starting line-ups on the year (maybe more), injuries to many or coming off them, 3 big trades. Not much chemistry.
Had we been near or at full strength it would of been a different series, simple as that. Many said similar things after that series also.
As far as how I think the Sonics will be, I've already stated that.
Had we been near or at full strength it would of been a different series, simple as that. Many said similar things after that series also.
As far as how I think the Sonics will be, I've already stated that.
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I'm not at all convinced that Sacramento is "clearly better" than Seattle. They have a superstar player in Ray Allen, whom I'd rather have than any player currently on the Kings roster, and a team that well constructed to compliment him. They play better defense, and have players who aren't afraid of contact. Their bench may be suspect, but it's hardly worthless. Barring an unprecedented meltdown, or inept coaching of epic proportions, I don't see any way that Seattle doesn't make the playoffs.
And neither do I see any indication that the Kings are "clearly" better. We may, in fact, be better, but it's not like there's the kind of separation between us and them that there is between San Antonio and us...
And neither do I see any indication that the Kings are "clearly" better. We may, in fact, be better, but it's not like there's the kind of separation between us and them that there is between San Antonio and us...
I meant exactly what I said; Seattle plays better defense. You're free to stick your head in the sand and claim "who knows" if you wish, but we have have few (if any) defensive-minded personnel, we don't have a defensive-oriented system, and we have a head coach who's track record has already shown that not only does he not teach and emphasize a defensive philosophy, but that he does not even utilize defensive players, unless they are also talented offensively. We have a a bunch of pretty-boy offensive stars, that don't like to get their hands dirty with defensive effort.
Seattle is better defensively. I didn't say that they were great defensively, or even very good. But they're better than us.
Seattle is better defensively. I didn't say that they were great defensively, or even very good. But they're better than us.
Stick my head in the sand? The season hasn't even started yet and the two teams have changed, especially the Kings.
Who's defensive minded on the Sonics other than Fortson/Evans (I thought his defense isn't good, other than having a big body and hustling)/Brunson/Collison? The last line goes with Bibby, and Peja not being very physical (which I think is exaggerated sometimes, yep), but don't know after.
Sonics having a defensive-minded team is TBD.
This isn't a shot or anything, but why do you even post here? You pretty much wrote off and bashed the Sacramento Kings.
Who's defensive minded on the Sonics other than Fortson/Evans (I thought his defense isn't good, other than having a big body and hustling)/Brunson/Collison? The last line goes with Bibby, and Peja not being very physical (which I think is exaggerated sometimes, yep), but don't know after.
Sonics having a defensive-minded team is TBD.
This isn't a shot or anything, but why do you even post here? You pretty much wrote off and bashed the Sacramento Kings.
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I think the debate here really illustrates how fans tend to overrate their own role players. I think RayAllen has overrated a lot of his bench players by saying that the Sonics have one of the deepest benches in the league. But, this is the same thing that Kings fans tend to do all the time. If you read some of the comments on the board this past summer you would develop these beliefs about some of our role players...
Daruis Songalia is one of the best bench big men in the league- will easily average 10 and 6 off the bench over the course of a seasron, and could start for 12-15 teams- REALITY: Darius is a very nice player, but probably no better than a 4th big man on any serious team. Nice jumper, tough player...
Mo Evans is capable of starting for a team serious about contending- after seeing Mo play off the bench last year and play one half against Allen in Game 5, many were ready to label him our starter at OG. REALITY- Evans is a great athlete and solid NBA bencher, but no playoff team would start him.
Jason Hart- "should the Kings start him and trade Bibby?" Even that comment aside, people seem to think he is going to single handedly bring defensive presence and run the offense flawlessly- REALITY- the BOBCATS let him go for nothing. Granted that is probably a mistake, but hart is going to have plenty of games where he does next to nothing. I think he will fit well, but I am not as optimistic as some people who think he is the second coming of BJax.
And the examples can go on and on. I love Kevin and Cisco, but it seems like people tend to look at them through blinders as well- these are very young players who will struggle at times and make bone-headed plays. There will be games where neither one of these guys should be in, and they won't play, and people will holler for Adelman's head for sitting the young guys.
The point of all of this is that fans often get enamored with their bench and role players and love them in a way that only a mother can love an ugly child. So asking Kings fans and Sonic fans to debate who has the better bench is going to result in people basically saying things like "damien Wilkins could average 20 points a game in this league if we let him start," and boy- "I could see Jason Hart as our starter..."
Daruis Songalia is one of the best bench big men in the league- will easily average 10 and 6 off the bench over the course of a seasron, and could start for 12-15 teams- REALITY: Darius is a very nice player, but probably no better than a 4th big man on any serious team. Nice jumper, tough player...
Mo Evans is capable of starting for a team serious about contending- after seeing Mo play off the bench last year and play one half against Allen in Game 5, many were ready to label him our starter at OG. REALITY- Evans is a great athlete and solid NBA bencher, but no playoff team would start him.
Jason Hart- "should the Kings start him and trade Bibby?" Even that comment aside, people seem to think he is going to single handedly bring defensive presence and run the offense flawlessly- REALITY- the BOBCATS let him go for nothing. Granted that is probably a mistake, but hart is going to have plenty of games where he does next to nothing. I think he will fit well, but I am not as optimistic as some people who think he is the second coming of BJax.
And the examples can go on and on. I love Kevin and Cisco, but it seems like people tend to look at them through blinders as well- these are very young players who will struggle at times and make bone-headed plays. There will be games where neither one of these guys should be in, and they won't play, and people will holler for Adelman's head for sitting the young guys.
The point of all of this is that fans often get enamored with their bench and role players and love them in a way that only a mother can love an ugly child. So asking Kings fans and Sonic fans to debate who has the better bench is going to result in people basically saying things like "damien Wilkins could average 20 points a game in this league if we let him start," and boy- "I could see Jason Hart as our starter..."
