Kings/Sonics notes: Petrie: Peja has not reiterated his trade request
- Thread starter AleksandarN
- Start date
bigbadred00
Starter
Peja wasn't too bad in the Playoffs this year. Horry is ...over the hill.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
bigbadred00 said:
It was faceitious.
Mentioned before though, that you put me in the 4th quarter of a playoff game and I'd take a young Robert Horry every day over Peja. And that's just wrong.
bigbadred00
Starter
I know. Prime time Players aren't that common in the NBA. Bibby seems to be one, I know Reggie is. Peja isn't. Some players just aren't and you have to accept that. Peja was all you could expect out of a 7-8 million dollar Shooting Forward in the Playoffs. Hell he makes less than A. Foyle on Golden State.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
bigbadred00 said:
Actually he doesn't (Foyle was signed to the extension + maximum raises so probably about $5 mil this year). And as usual I have absolutely no idea what money has to do with it. Next year if he signs a max deal are expectations suddenly doubled? Man will the boos be raining.
bigbadred00
Starter
Sorry AF makes 6.5, and Peja makes 6.9. Point is right now we get a lot of bang per buck even if that means he is only scoring 20 a game in the playoffs. Bang per buck is important in the NBA even if the cap is loose. Expectations are definitely tied in with salaries. Especially for someone in his quote on quote prime. Right now were overpaying Corliss and Ostertag, teams such as the Spurs are very efficient with there dollar and seem to be winning, likewise Detroit is pretty efficient. The only non-efficient winning team seems to be Dallas. 8 of the 10 top teams in salaries, will probally be out of the playoffs after this round of the playoffs.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Money obviously does not make a person's performance better or worse. But I do think it's tied to expectations of the level of performance you get out of a player (same as any employee). I would hope that Shaq is paid more than Shawn Bradley, because you expect a higher level of performance from Shaq, not because the money makes Shaq a better performer than Bradley.
So, in that sense I think it is fair to judge a person's performance against their peers in position and salary. Are we over or under paying for the level of performance we are getting from this employee? You don't rate a secretary's perfomance against the CEO's, because you aren't expecting the secretary to run the business.
Now if you want to discuss whether Peja's living up to his potential or what we hoped for, that's a whole 'nother subject. I think that's where the disagreement is coming in. Maybe what we see is all we're gonna get from Peja, maybe not. Is Peja capable of being a CEO or maybe only a mid-level manager or...? Some people think yes, some no, some are still undecided.
So, in that sense I think it is fair to judge a person's performance against their peers in position and salary. Are we over or under paying for the level of performance we are getting from this employee? You don't rate a secretary's perfomance against the CEO's, because you aren't expecting the secretary to run the business.
Now if you want to discuss whether Peja's living up to his potential or what we hoped for, that's a whole 'nother subject. I think that's where the disagreement is coming in. Maybe what we see is all we're gonna get from Peja, maybe not. Is Peja capable of being a CEO or maybe only a mid-level manager or...? Some people think yes, some no, some are still undecided.
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ReinadelosReys
Starter
starks said:
::scratches head::
What does this have to do with my post?
ultraman206
G-League
Personally, I think next season Peja will be even better then the All-Star version of himself last year. But that's just me... what do I know.
AleksandarN said:
The decision to keep Peja should be made based on what he can do for us in the future, not for what he's meant to the franchise in the past because, quite frankly, there are others who have meant MUCH MORE and they're gone. And it's not just one player I'm referring to.
Peja has used up ALL his good will as far as I'm concerned. Yes, he actually showed up in a playoff game - too little and too late, IMHO.
If he's Petrie's darling and gets a free ride, so be it, but he's not going to get a free ride from me any more than any other player. I want my Kings to give their all every night AND to be willing to go the extra distance, doing whatever they can to improve themselves for the good of the team.
I'm very tired, to be brutally honest, of all the arse kissing that seems to go on in the media over Peja Stojakovic. Yeah, he's good but he's not Michael Jordan or Larry Bird. He's not irreplaceable, especially the 2005 version.
This article, to me, was more of the toadying that's gone on far too long about Peja.
"Oh, we should all be so happy. The mighty Peja is not demanding a trade any longer. Fall down and worship him."
Barf!!!
I like Peja and I like what he brings to the team when he's on, but I don't like the fawning all over him 24/7 by some members of our local media.
I'd like them to be a little more balanced, but maybe I'm still trying to deal with seeing my beloved team blown up in the middle of the year...
It will be an interesting off-season, to be sure.
If the team taking the court next November has Stojakovic on it, I will applaud and cheer him as I've always done and I'll wish him well, and I'll be genuine about it.
If, on the other hand, the team taking the court next November has someone else starting as small forward, I will applaud and cheer them, too.
It's about the name on the front...not the name on the back. And I want the guys whose names are on the back to think the same way.
kennadog
Dog On It!
While I've seen and heard what your talking about, I'm not sure I would include this particular "note" (not really an article). Let's face it, the story was made a big deal last summer and some reporter asked this question since we're done for the season and reported the answer from GP. It's quite possible that some Kings fans were wondering at this point. You (I'm guessingVF21 said:
) and I weren't interested in the answer to this particular question.
AleksandarN
Starter
VF21 said:
What do you mean he has used up all of his goodwill? I do not understand how people can fault Pedja for the attention he is recieveing from the local media. I think alot of the media said that everyone is tradeable. Maybe because I do not live in Sacramento I do not know. It is somewhat similiar to what Webber was going through. Having people like and dislike the player it seems like it is a polar division that was going on with Webber. It also seems like people want Pedja go through what Webber went through with the fans. What is going to happen next if Pedja getts traded are fans going to turn on Bibby next? It has to stop sometime or we will turn into Philly fans who turn against thier players left, right and center.
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He's used up all his goodwill with me.
And it has nothing to do with Webber and it has nothing to do with Philly...
I have certain expectations from the starting small forward for the Sacramento Kings, whether his name is Peja Stojakovic or Fred Flintstone. At this point in time, with our team undergoing major changes, one has to look at EACH position and see if the current occupant is meeting the team's needs and, if not, can a better player be found or is the deficiency something we can live with.
In the case of the 3, we need a shooter who can also rebound AND defend. Our current occupant hasn't been hitting shots, rebounds only if the ball hits him in the hands and is probably adequate to good at defense. That is not good enough for me.
I am very careful about the words I post on this board. I am articulate and educated. I am able to express my opinions without resorting to name calling or profanity and I seem to be able to make myself understood. If my perceptions of Peja do not agree with yours, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. I am not going to refrain from posting justifiable criticisms about ANY player because that's one of the reasons I come here. My feelings about Peja are solely concerned with how they intertwine with the Sacramento Kings.
And it has nothing to do with Webber and it has nothing to do with Philly...
I have certain expectations from the starting small forward for the Sacramento Kings, whether his name is Peja Stojakovic or Fred Flintstone. At this point in time, with our team undergoing major changes, one has to look at EACH position and see if the current occupant is meeting the team's needs and, if not, can a better player be found or is the deficiency something we can live with.
In the case of the 3, we need a shooter who can also rebound AND defend. Our current occupant hasn't been hitting shots, rebounds only if the ball hits him in the hands and is probably adequate to good at defense. That is not good enough for me.
I am very careful about the words I post on this board. I am articulate and educated. I am able to express my opinions without resorting to name calling or profanity and I seem to be able to make myself understood. If my perceptions of Peja do not agree with yours, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. I am not going to refrain from posting justifiable criticisms about ANY player because that's one of the reasons I come here. My feelings about Peja are solely concerned with how they intertwine with the Sacramento Kings.
El Duque
G-League
Well, VF21, I would respectfully disagree with some of what you said. I feel as harshly as you do about ANY player demanding a trade, but I mean, Peja has been absolutely integral to the Kings' success in recent years. He hasn't been the man in the playoffs, obviously, but we might not even be talking playoffs the past few years without Peja. In my opinion, Peja showed a lot of heart in our last game, even if it was "too little, too late". Yeah, it was inopportune, but at least he showed that he was not ready to go home for the summer. I can't blame him or anyone else for mailing it in in this series; we pretty much lost to a better team. I still think he can improve as a player, and I hope that he does so in a Sacramento Kings uniform.
AleksandarN
Starter
VF21 said:
I have never asked you and implied that you refrain from posting you opinions actually I quite enjoy you posts and banter. My favourite player on the Kings is Pedja but I love the Kings more(heck even wanted to trade Pedja myself this year because of his attitude in the beggining of the season). I get upset when they lose and estatic when they win. Heck I was heart broken the last couple of years when we were so close. The point being I love the Kings and every player on the team. If you look back at my history being on the site you see that clearly. Let me tell you this though I love debating and talking to you and I want you to know that I would never want you refrain from posting criticisms wheather I aggree with them or not and I hope you feel the same.
Londonking
Believer
I'm with El Duque on this one...lack of rebounding capability runs through the team and i dont think we can single out Peja there. I perceive him as one of the best natural shooters in the nba who can find the basket with a hand in his face and draws plenty of double team from our opponents....surely evidence of his merit.
There is a logic that says if we had an alternative who would shoot like Peja and mix that up with agressive drives inside then that would be a better package and i would go with that, but i cant think of who that would be......
There is a logic that says if we had an alternative who would shoot like Peja and mix that up with agressive drives inside then that would be a better package and i would go with that, but i cant think of who that would be......
El Duque said:
Peja has been integral in the past, but this year - for who knows exactly what reasons - he was either ineffective or injured with a plethora of various ailments. Yes, he did show a lot of heart in the last game but where was that heart earlier? I am still torn about him. One part of me is admittedly still carrying a grudge for his trade request/demand and the comments he apparently made to the Serbian press. The other part of me loves watching him when he's on, when his rainbow three from somewhere near the popcorn stand goes swish and you can hear the sound of 17,317 fans having their breath taken away at the same time. I'm really trying to be as fair as I can. I can't help how I feel but I'm trying to be objective as much as possible.
Look at all the game grades from this past season. Peja has been all over the map. IF we're going to rebuild a team, and it seems likely at least some remodeling is going to take place, then I think we have to look at consistency at least in part. I can accept stellar performance; I can deal with mediocrity; I can even learn to live with sub-par performances. What I cannot reconcile is the player whose performance is all over the map. There are certain things players should be able to bring to the table almost every game. (Everyone has off nights.) This last season, the only thing you could predict about Peja's game is that it was unpredictable.
El Duque
G-League
VF21, great points. I guess I am guilty of a little nostalgia, but hey, after "Zebragate" in the WC Finals and the "knee heard 'round the world", my sanity is dependent upon looking at the bright side 
. I know that we can both agree that he needs a swift kick in the ***, because he is a tremendous talent that is not living up to his ability. I just hope that his last game is the start of a new day for him.
Ultimately, the Kings are more important than any one player, and if he is still in a Kings uniform next year, I believe that it will truly be his "make or break" year. He will have to put up or shut up, because if he's around, the spotlight will be his and his alone (underestimating Petrie; I just know that two months from now I will be eating those words). He has the ability to be "that" kind of player, but he needs to really dedicate himself and "grow up", to put it politically. Now, if we're having this same discussion again next year, you'll have to save some room for me on the Peja-pile.
. I know that we can both agree that he needs a swift kick in the ***, because he is a tremendous talent that is not living up to his ability. I just hope that his last game is the start of a new day for him. Ultimately, the Kings are more important than any one player, and if he is still in a Kings uniform next year, I believe that it will truly be his "make or break" year. He will have to put up or shut up, because if he's around, the spotlight will be his and his alone (underestimating Petrie; I just know that two months from now I will be eating those words). He has the ability to be "that" kind of player, but he needs to really dedicate himself and "grow up", to put it politically. Now, if we're having this same discussion again next year, you'll have to save some room for me on the Peja-pile.
AleksandarN
Starter
^^^^^I aggree 100%. If he still on the team next and does not live up to expectations then trade do not settle for the status quo. I would hate for Petrie to make the choice to keep Pedja this offseason and then find out he is not producing next year and still not trade him. I think if he is still on the team at the start of season does not mean he will still be on the team at years end. It going to be a wild ride next year up untill the trade deadline. VF21 are you up for it since they will be tons of trade talk leading up to the deadline
Londonking
Believer
I accept that consistency is crucial when playing at this level and this past season doesnt rank as Peja's best (on many measures) given the 'star' tag we apply to expectations from him. I remember the season before when CWebb was out Peja stepped up and was a key component in our regular season record. I cant account for why its been different from him this year.
If we accept it is not a lack of desire then maybe in a game where 'mental' strength is so important he just hasnt had the the belief in himself to deliver on a consistant basis.
I worry that if we let him go then the replacement may be less capable. Something i remember reading posted by 6th springs to mind, where the crux of her message was the style (ball movement, unselfish play, shot selection) was such an attractive and key feature of the 'old Kings'. I suppose i just want whoever plays SF to ring those attributes to the game, and i think Peja could.
If we accept it is not a lack of desire then maybe in a game where 'mental' strength is so important he just hasnt had the the belief in himself to deliver on a consistant basis.
I worry that if we let him go then the replacement may be less capable. Something i remember reading posted by 6th springs to mind, where the crux of her message was the style (ball movement, unselfish play, shot selection) was such an attractive and key feature of the 'old Kings'. I suppose i just want whoever plays SF to ring those attributes to the game, and i think Peja could.
AleksandarN said:
Brace yourself... I agree with your comments as quoted above. That's one for the record books, I believe.
I'm not sure but I'm already starting to train. I'm going to make sure I focus on the important things during TDOS, and I just might surprise everyone with improved performance in trade discussions, since I'm well aware of my deficiencies (including a total lack of patience) in that area.
Londonking
Believer
Yes Kennadog, and that what's so tantalising and enthrawling about the trade talk and possibilities. Is the grass on the other side of the fence greener ?
The only thing we know is that we wont know without the bebefit of hindsight !!
The only thing we know is that we wont know without the bebefit of hindsight !!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Here is the problem -- if you delay once again in moving Peja, his trade value goes south even further and the list of prospective teams to trade him to gets even more limited.
As a star level player entering the final year of his contract, he still has a lot of value right now. But next year that value deteriorates, and hanging over our head will be the possibility of him leaving with no compensation at all at the end of the season. That's just silly. It backs us into a major corner. We are stuck dealing with a limited number of teams midseason, many of whom will be reluctant to do what we did last year and seriously disrupt the team, and most of whom will likely need to be assured that Peja will resign with them before making the trade. It also means seriously disrupting our own team next year, and thereby maybe scuttling our chances again as well.
Remember, Peja can sign with ANY team for the same amount of money next year. His max contract is not like Webber's -- it will be the same amount of money no matter who signs him. We will have no financial advantage, no restricted free agency. He could easily walk. And if KMart got offered a max contract, you have to imagine some GM somewhere would offer Peja that much money. Puts us over the barrel to either overpay him or lose him for nothing.
If I'm the GM of the Kings the last thing in the world I want to do is enter next season with Peja not under contract beyond the end of the year. To put the franchise in the position of having dwindling alternativesto being held hostage at the end of the season. If I'm planning on keeping him, I want to extend him THIS summer -- keeps me in control. If I'm not, then trade him and let the other team worry about it. But bringing Peja back for an 8th year of tryouts, at the end of which some fool is probably going to offer him a max deal anyway and pin me does not make sense. Peja will be 28, an 8 yr pro in the same system and with the same coach. Tryouts are over. Now we need to be absolutely 100% sure that we either keep him or end up with equal or better value.
As a star level player entering the final year of his contract, he still has a lot of value right now. But next year that value deteriorates, and hanging over our head will be the possibility of him leaving with no compensation at all at the end of the season. That's just silly. It backs us into a major corner. We are stuck dealing with a limited number of teams midseason, many of whom will be reluctant to do what we did last year and seriously disrupt the team, and most of whom will likely need to be assured that Peja will resign with them before making the trade. It also means seriously disrupting our own team next year, and thereby maybe scuttling our chances again as well.
Remember, Peja can sign with ANY team for the same amount of money next year. His max contract is not like Webber's -- it will be the same amount of money no matter who signs him. We will have no financial advantage, no restricted free agency. He could easily walk. And if KMart got offered a max contract, you have to imagine some GM somewhere would offer Peja that much money. Puts us over the barrel to either overpay him or lose him for nothing.
If I'm the GM of the Kings the last thing in the world I want to do is enter next season with Peja not under contract beyond the end of the year. To put the franchise in the position of having dwindling alternativesto being held hostage at the end of the season. If I'm planning on keeping him, I want to extend him THIS summer -- keeps me in control. If I'm not, then trade him and let the other team worry about it. But bringing Peja back for an 8th year of tryouts, at the end of which some fool is probably going to offer him a max deal anyway and pin me does not make sense. Peja will be 28, an 8 yr pro in the same system and with the same coach. Tryouts are over. Now we need to be absolutely 100% sure that we either keep him or end up with equal or better value.
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Londonking
Believer
Bricklayer, i appreciate the valid reference you make to the financials re Peja.....and its clear (to me) that from the divided views of the fans on this site,(which ought to be a representative sample) that we cannot draw the conclusion that he is the best SF we could field.
This is where my lack of depth of knowledge on the abilities of the other SF's out there invalidates a sensible discussion from me. I will look closely at the suggest trade threads and see if i can get a feel for who the consensus candidate might be !
This is where my lack of depth of knowledge on the abilities of the other SF's out there invalidates a sensible discussion from me. I will look closely at the suggest trade threads and see if i can get a feel for who the consensus candidate might be !
AleksandarN
Starter
VF21 said:Brace yourself... I agree with your comments as quoted above. That's one for the record books, I believe.
Are you feeling ok? Has the world come to an end? And does that mean you finally see the light. I am waiting for you to aggree with me about Kobe then the transformation is complete
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