Entity
Hall of Famer
really? Why?
Kings sign Carl Landry
- Thread starter Heuge
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really? Why?
roasthawg
Starter
Reke for Vasquez plus $9mil/yr in capspace. Can't forget that part. We just used $6.5mil of that on Landry... so Reke for Vasquez, Landry, and $2.5mil/yr in caproom.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
And that's the problem with analytics, they only tell half the story. In no way is Landry a better fit next to Cuz than JT or a defensive PF with worse offensive efficiency, but PDA won't see that looking strictly at numbers.
And we don't need scoring. Pointing out Landry can score and do it efficiently just shows how wayward this strategy is. Our cornerstone is a 20/10 center next year and likely a 25/12 center in the not too distant future. We don't need scoring next to him. Not at all.
It's insane after all the scorers we acquired the last few years and the results we saw, that people are bringing up Landry's scoring as a positive.
roasthawg
Starter
This isn't PDA's move... it's Malone's. He knows all about Landry, I really wouldn't worry about a lack on info on Landry here.
Also, most have been panicking that we don't have any scoring now that Reke is gone. Well presto... here's some scoring. And EFFICIENT scoring at that... Landry brings a career 60% ts with him. If you're building an offense focused on the low post game then you NEED more than one guy imo... what happens when Cuz is in foul trouble? Game over???
Entity
Hall of Famer
he got 6 rebounds a game. your excited because thats his best lol. and no he got 6.5 with us. in fact scored his most points and got his most rebound as a king. and it was a terrible fit next to cousins. terrible. didn't work so we traded him out.
Henkel
Starter
Jimmer is making 2.5m and is a complete bust. Salmons is cap relief. Hayes is over payed and a niche player at best. Ppat and JT are decent third bigs that don't contribute much defensively. MT is over payed and one dimensional, plus unlike similar players, like Crawford for example, he hasn't proven the ability to be a good 6th man. Hope I'm wrong, but unless we give up a pick as part of a package I don't see how we turn that into much.
You're just not seeing the big picture o this Landry signing Brick. PDA sees 3,4, maybe 8 steps ahead! We were able to get rid of that nasty ball hogging Reke guy and replace him with Vazquez who is PASS FIRST!!! Now we have Landry to do our low post scoring so we don't have to be tied into extending that cancerous immature Cousins too early! Make him prove he can lead the team to the playoffs before you pay him, because who else would want a guy who throws a temper tantrum now and then even if he is the most well rounded big in the league and under 25... No need to worry about those two guys... I mean they were both on the team that was a loser before so there's clearly no real talent there. Plus, If we don't extend Cousins we can load up with a few more good personality types on long term mid level salaries like Landry, and Vazquez, and Chuck Hayes! I don't want to hear anything about defense, rebounding, or drawing double teams, this is about playing good smart fundamental basketball!
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Coaches make suggestions, GM's sign off, not the other way around. And we know all about Landry as well.
And if you think Landry fills the need of the type of 2nd scorer some have talked about, you haven't grasped that conversation all that well. We need someone who can penetrate, draw doubles, shift defenses, create for himself or others when Cuz is out or loaded up on. Landry does not accomplish that and actually hurts it as we now have less cap space to go out and get that player. And we certainly don't need that 2nd scorer next to Cuz, that's exactly where his defensive sidekick should be located.
agreed, I don't think anyone wants any of those guys, and in a year you ca add Landry to the list of overpaid unwanted trade pieces the Kings own. We need to start thinking about the upcoming rebuild through the draft. I'd like to see us start using our cap space to stockpile picks even if it means eating other team's bad salaries since they probably won't be worse than the ones we seem to sign free agents to and at least we get an asset out of it in the pick.
Henkel
Starter
JT played more. If you look at their Per 36 then you are looking at two very similar players from a statistical perspective.
Says you.
I think Landry will thrive next to Cousins. I do hope to see him in a 6th man role. Dude was a top tier role player last season, 10th in the NBA in efficiency, and did it on role player shots. Outrebounded both JT and Ppat. Not to mention he's a great Vet presence/locker room guy. Also, he knows Malone and will help us transition into his system.
Also, this opens up more trade avenues (some of which might already be in motion). IT, Thornton, JT, Ppat are all players who can help other teams. Package of few of them together and we should be able to plug some of our remaining holes
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No.
It's not even close. Landry dominated JT in every statistical category and out-rebounded him by a solid margin last season. Both are average-poor defensive players.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Ok
Jason Thompson in 28mins per game 6.9 rebounds 10.9points on 50% (70% free throw) shooting on a garbage lottery team
Carl Landry in 23.2 mins 6.0 rebounds 10.8 points on 54% (81% free throw) shooting yet everyone claims Landry is a terrible rebounder and has terrible D. Please JT is so soft he's a pee weak defender people on this forum are way to attached to a at best average player. O yeah he did this on A PLAYOFF TEAM.
Jason Thompson on no planet is better than Landry, what world are you people living in saying JT is better? How does Landry have no post up game do you even watch basketball?
LANDRY>>>>JT
More effective better offensive player and similar in everything else
Entity
Hall of Famer
how is 6 rebounds (landry) more than 6.7 (JT) again he has ALREADY PLAYED NEXT TO COUSINS. Listen to us. it DID NOT work. you keep saying you think he will. He won't he didn't then what has changed. He was actually a better player then than he is now. stop you look insane.
Entity
Hall of Famer
dominated. again less points less rebound less assist less steals less blocks. but somehow this dominates JT?? are you purposly doing this. its as if you don't look these things up
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Well, after reading most of this thread after a long day here is my take:
I like Carl Landry in the role GSW used him. I think that is the role we will use him. He isn't a starter .. surely Michael Malone knows this. I cannot agree with those who said that this was a bad move because 'Carl Landry already failed here' ... The entire team failed here under the older ownership group, coaching staff, and front office. We've seen this happen over and over again. Cisco can't get off the bench here, he leaves and startes in the playoffs for Houston. Carl Landry leaves and becomes way more effective with a team that doesn't try and do too much with him.
Per36, Landry was better than JT in just about every category. Not a perfect stat, but It shows how you can maximize what you get out of a player, and you can also reach a point where you are playing that player too much. We may have hit that with JT last year as a starter. Per36 Carl Landry shot a higher percentage, scored more points, took the same amount of shots, and rebounded better. Yes, rebounded better. (It was a down year in rebounding for JT for some season). The Key is Landry only played 23 minutes a game and came off the bench.
I have to believe in logic. Once you stop believing in that then it doesn't make sense to even talk about this stuff. YES. We have too many bigs and not one defender. YES. We have exactly one starting caliber big man in Cousins, 3 3rd bigs (Landry, Thompson, and Patterson) and one 5th big (Hayes).
Out of those 3, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, and Pattrick Patterson you can make a solid case for Carl Landry as the best player out of the 3. Now, if you tell me our next target is Omer Asik I'll tell you Landry is the best fit hands down. With Asik, you are essentially playing 2 centers in your starting unit, which makes the need for JT's size smaller and the need for bench scoring greater. Landry is a better offensive player. We can all agree on that?
Logic tells me this isn't the crew we will open the season with. Logic tells me a trade is brewing. If this logic doesn't exist than we have major problems. Major.
I will not get worked up over the potential negatives just yet, because if we trade JT and Patterson for Asik tomorrow this all goes away. The Landry signing makes all the sense in the world then. This deal is for a good player and the number isn't outrageous, and under many scenarios a trade or two can be made to make this look much better. Not panicing yet.
If we do nothing else, I'll send Sacramento some pitch forks.
I like Carl Landry in the role GSW used him. I think that is the role we will use him. He isn't a starter .. surely Michael Malone knows this. I cannot agree with those who said that this was a bad move because 'Carl Landry already failed here' ... The entire team failed here under the older ownership group, coaching staff, and front office. We've seen this happen over and over again. Cisco can't get off the bench here, he leaves and startes in the playoffs for Houston. Carl Landry leaves and becomes way more effective with a team that doesn't try and do too much with him.
Per36, Landry was better than JT in just about every category. Not a perfect stat, but It shows how you can maximize what you get out of a player, and you can also reach a point where you are playing that player too much. We may have hit that with JT last year as a starter. Per36 Carl Landry shot a higher percentage, scored more points, took the same amount of shots, and rebounded better. Yes, rebounded better. (It was a down year in rebounding for JT for some season). The Key is Landry only played 23 minutes a game and came off the bench.
I have to believe in logic. Once you stop believing in that then it doesn't make sense to even talk about this stuff. YES. We have too many bigs and not one defender. YES. We have exactly one starting caliber big man in Cousins, 3 3rd bigs (Landry, Thompson, and Patterson) and one 5th big (Hayes).
Out of those 3, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, and Pattrick Patterson you can make a solid case for Carl Landry as the best player out of the 3. Now, if you tell me our next target is Omer Asik I'll tell you Landry is the best fit hands down. With Asik, you are essentially playing 2 centers in your starting unit, which makes the need for JT's size smaller and the need for bench scoring greater. Landry is a better offensive player. We can all agree on that?
Logic tells me this isn't the crew we will open the season with. Logic tells me a trade is brewing. If this logic doesn't exist than we have major problems. Major.
I will not get worked up over the potential negatives just yet, because if we trade JT and Patterson for Asik tomorrow this all goes away. The Landry signing makes all the sense in the world then. This deal is for a good player and the number isn't outrageous, and under many scenarios a trade or two can be made to make this look much better. Not panicing yet.
If we do nothing else, I'll send Sacramento some pitch forks.
Explain why the Clippers were after him then? If he's not good.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Per36 means more for rebounds than most other stats. JT played more minutes. More minutes = More rebounds.
K
KingMilz
Guest
JT played like 5 more mins per game....
You need a crash course of how statistics work, my friend. And 2010-2011 was actually THE WORST season of Landry's career.
Sooo.
Yea
Henkel
Starter
Yeah I was looking at the wrong stats for Landry, my bad. I wouldn't say dominated though, both are about even on the assist, steal, block front. Landry was the slightly better rebounding last season while JT has the better career numbers. Biggest difference is the scoring, both percent and total are clearly in Landry favor. Agreed that both are poor defenders.
MizzouKing
Starter
Culture Club
I think this is the key. For a coach trying to change the culture, Landry is a known quantity, a "consummate professional," and a exactly the veteran presence Malone needs in the locker room. I hope his production in Malone's system is an excellent fit, because 22 million is a big chunk of cap space.
I'm still supportive of the new regime, but a little more nervous than I was a week ago.
Mizzou King
I think this is the key. For a coach trying to change the culture, Landry is a known quantity, a "consummate professional," and a exactly the veteran presence Malone needs in the locker room. I hope his production in Malone's system is an excellent fit, because 22 million is a big chunk of cap space.
I'm still supportive of the new regime, but a little more nervous than I was a week ago.
Mizzou King
K
KingMilz
Guest
The team so far has upgraded the PF, PG positions by a lot and got a very good talent (Big Mac) to replace Tyreke and still have tradable assets for a SF that's all that matters people are acting like they are doing a horrible job but no they are not and there's more moves to be made and we have upgraded in 2 positions while having a downgrade in 1 (which could turn into a upgrade in a year or two).
Landry and Vasquez bring fire, smarts and toughness that's what this team needs, we had far to many passive soft players on the floor to often who simply didn't give a ****.
Landry and Vasquez bring fire, smarts and toughness that's what this team needs, we had far to many passive soft players on the floor to often who simply didn't give a ****.
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