Bingo. The question is if both Westbrook and Augustin are there at #12, who do we pick? Especially considering that the Kings are apparently interested in Augustin. I think we still pick Westbrook, solely because he isn't undersized like Augustin. But I think it's pretty much a lock that the Pacers take one of these 2 guys. I think the Jamaal Tinsley experiment is over
Kings Select in the 2008 NBA DRAFT??
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
- Start date
My personal opinion, espicially after listening to the interviews at the camp is that neither one will slide to us, and least of all, Westbrook. If I have to choose between a really good pt and a really good PF, I'll take the Pt at this time. But if its a decent to just good pt vrs a really good PF, I'll take the PF. I think that Augustin will be a pretty good player at best and a decent player at worst. I doubt he'll ever be a great player. But here's the rub. I think that Westbrook can be a great player at best, but I'm not really sure that he'll ever be even better than Augustin. I hope that made sense.
I have to think the Pacers take Augustine. They liked Tinsley's style of play, just can't count on him to be healthy. Augustine is more of a true PG, as I wrote in the thread on Westbrook, I just don't have faith in players learning how to be a true PG in the NBA. It gets talked about every year, but never really works out. I see Westbrook's upside as being a bigger, stronger Bobby Jackson. Also, with Augustine's shooting ability, I think he fits in better with O' Neal and Granger. Unless they are blowing everything up, Westbrook is more comfortable with the ball in his hands creating his shot, while Augustine can hit 3s when Granger and O' Neal get doubled.
I have always thought people have been unfair to Pervous. I understand the historic impact of that pick on our franchise. However, I have a hard time labeling someone a bust over injuries.
Pervous' career was crippled by injuries, but at his peak (3rd season) he averaged approximatley 20 pts, 11 rbds, 3 ast, 3 blks and 1 stl per game shooting 54% from the field and 73% from the line. Considering that was only his third season and he already had numerous injuries (even that year he played 66 games), it is probably safe to assume he had at least some room to improve.
I will go ahead and label myself as the one Pervous Ellison defender on this board. I don't think he was a "bust," I think he was a good player severly limited by injuries.
Pervous' career was crippled by injuries, but at his peak (3rd season) he averaged approximatley 20 pts, 11 rbds, 3 ast, 3 blks and 1 stl per game shooting 54% from the field and 73% from the line. Considering that was only his third season and he already had numerous injuries (even that year he played 66 games), it is probably safe to assume he had at least some room to improve.
I will go ahead and label myself as the one Pervous Ellison defender on this board. I don't think he was a "bust," I think he was a good player severly limited by injuries.
I remember that draft very well. All the talk was "lucky" Kings would take the best big man available and there were so few deserving a #1 pick that year (1989). Swingmen Glen Rice (#4) and Sean Elliott (#5) were about the only other players talked about as possible options for Sacramento. 19-year-old Vlade Divac (#26) maybe should have been considered! Basically, it was a below average draft year as only Sean Kemp, Tim Hardaway, a couple other notable first rounders and almost no second rounders making the cut.
The list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_NBA_Draft
The list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_NBA_Draft
I posted most of an article from the pre-draft camp by draftexpress on the Andre Jordan thread. Here is part of the article that I left out:
If a player was able to hurt himself here (a pretty questionable concept considering the setting), it probably would have been JaVale McGee for what he showed. He came out looking like a deer in the headlights, air-balling shots from the perimeter, blowing wide open layups and being stuffed repeatedly by the rim, appearing extremely unconfident and getting down on himself very quickly. This wouldn’t be that much of a concern if these things weren’t already a very big concern considering the way he projects long-term, although you always have to go back to his age, immaturity and overall rawness to begin to explain things. He seems to have added weight to his frame and is incredibly impressive with just how long he is, looking good finishing around the basket when he was able to convert his moves.
If a player was able to hurt himself here (a pretty questionable concept considering the setting), it probably would have been JaVale McGee for what he showed. He came out looking like a deer in the headlights, air-balling shots from the perimeter, blowing wide open layups and being stuffed repeatedly by the rim, appearing extremely unconfident and getting down on himself very quickly. This wouldn’t be that much of a concern if these things weren’t already a very big concern considering the way he projects long-term, although you always have to go back to his age, immaturity and overall rawness to begin to explain things. He seems to have added weight to his frame and is incredibly impressive with just how long he is, looking good finishing around the basket when he was able to convert his moves.
Fair enough. I will fully admit that I made a point that has been brooding inside me for a long time over your fairly innoucuous post.
Long story short, when I look at draft busts, I do not include any players who were injury prone in the NBA but healthy in college. If they were injury prone in college then I feel their current team is taking a risk. If not than injuries are a random factor that teams cannot control.
Long story short, when I look at draft busts, I do not include any players who were injury prone in the NBA but healthy in college. If they were injury prone in college then I feel their current team is taking a risk. If not than injuries are a random factor that teams cannot control.
All the measurements haven't been posted yet, but a couple have leaked out on the draftexpress fourms board.
Beasley measured out at 6'7 3/4" in bare feet and 6'9" in shoes. He even stated that he was surprised at the measurement. He thought he was 6'10".
Love measured out at 6'8 1/4" in bare feet, and 6'9 1/2" in shoes. It will be interesting to see what their wingspan is.
Love's measurements are almost the same as Al Holford's from last year and Nick Collison, who plays center most of the time.
Beasley measured out at 6'7 3/4" in bare feet and 6'9" in shoes. He even stated that he was surprised at the measurement. He thought he was 6'10".
Love measured out at 6'8 1/4" in bare feet, and 6'9 1/2" in shoes. It will be interesting to see what their wingspan is.
Love's measurements are almost the same as Al Holford's from last year and Nick Collison, who plays center most of the time.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3421253&name=katz_andy
We'll work out George Hill.
We'll work out George Hill.
Some partial measuement info from the camp:
Partial Measurements and Combine Results Releasedby: DraftExpress June 3, 2008We’ll be posting the entire spreadsheet shortly, but here are some of the most interesting results. Keep in mind that this is hardly the holy grail in regards to talent evaluation. But people definitely love to look, which is why we rushed out the first results.
Michael Beasley measured at 6-7 without shoes, and 6-8 ¼ with. His wingspan in 7-0 ¼ and his standing reach is 8-11. He did fairly well in the combine, lifting the 185 bar 19 times, jumping 35 inches on the max vert, but measuring a slightly high body fat at 7.7%
Derrick Rose came out a bit shorter than advertised, at just 6-1 ½ in shoes and 6-2 ½ in. He has a 6-8 wingspan, a 40 inch vertical and ran the 3/4 court sprint very fast at 3.05.
Brook Lopez is a legit 7-footer in shoes. He also has a phenomenal 7-5 ½ wingspan and an outrageous 9-5 standing reach. He did not do very well at all in the combine though, jumping just 30 inches in the max vert and coming dead last in the lane agility drill at 12.77.
Jerryd Bayless is a legit 6-3 in shoes, and he has expected has a very poor wingspan at 6-3 ½. He did well in the combine, though, jumping 38 inches, lifting the 185 bar 10 times, running 11.26 in the lane agility drills, and sprinting ¾ court in 3.07 seconds.
Kevin Love measured out reasonably well—6-9 ½ in shoes (6-7 ¾ without), with a 6-11 ¼ wingspan and an 8-10 standing reach. His body fat is still very high at 12.9%, but in the combine he jumped 35 inches, lifted the 185 bar 18 times, and ran very well (11.17, 3.22)
O.J. Mayo is 6-3 ¼ without shoes, 6-4 ½ with, with a 6-6 wingspan and 8-3 standing reach. He had the second best vertical leap at 41 inches and ran 11.04 and 3.14.
Eric Gordon is 6-3 ¼ in shoes, with a terrific 6-9 wingspan. He jumped 40 inches, lifted the bar 15 times, and ran 10.81 and 3.01. He plays like a great athlete, and tested out well too.
Anthony Randolph is 6-10 ¼ in shoes, with a freakish 7-3 wingspan and 9-1 standing reach. He is skinny as expected at 4.7% body fat, jumped 35 inches on the max vert, and ran just OK at 11.86 and 3.26.
DeAndre Jordan came in an inch short at 6-11, but has an outrageous 7-6 wingspan and 9-5 ½ standing reach that more than compensates. He jumped poorly at 30.5 inches, lifted the bar 8 times, and ran the drills in 12.3 and 3.27 seconds.
The biggest wingspan: John Riek at 7-8 ¾. His standing reach was N/A. Probably too long to believe. We’re told its 9-10, and certainly believe that.
Biggest standing reach: JaVale McGee- 9-6 ½.
Lightest Player: Mike Taylor- 166 pounds, followed by D.J. Augustin at 171.
Heaviest Player: Kentrell Gransberry- 290 pounds
Lowest Body Fat: Lester Hudson- 3.4%
Highest Body Fat: Kentrell Gransberry -17.4% body fat
Best no-step vertical: Patrick Ewing- 35 inches
Best Max-Step Vertical: O.J. Mayo- 42 inches (tied with Ewing)
Bench Press: Josh Duncan 26 reps
Fastest Lane Agility: Sonny Weems- 10.58 seconds
Fastest ¾ Court Sprint: Sonny Weems- 2.96, (Joe Alexander 2.99)
Others:
Joey Dorsey measured in at only 6’6.25 without shoes, and 6’7.25 with shoes, but had a +7.5 wingspan and managed a very respectable 19 reps off 185 on the bench.
DeVon Hardin stands 6’10.75 in shoes with a 7’3 wingspan, he had 20 reps on the bench and recorded a 32” max vertical leap.
Josh Duncan put up 26 reps of 185 on the bench, recorded a 32” max vertical leap, is 6’8 without shoes, and recorded a body far percentage of only 5.4%.
Patrick Ewing Jr. recorded the highest max vertical leap on the day recording 42”, but struggled on the bench, finishing with only 2 reps. His is 9.4% body fat was surprising for a player of his build as well. At only 6’6 without shoes, he’s between positions with his measurables and game very much in conflict.
Richard Hendrix tested out very well. He is a hair under 6-9 in shoes, has a 7-3 wingspan, a 9-0 standing reach, and ran a 10.62 and 3.27. He jumped just 28 inches in the max vert. Discuss This Article in our Forums
Unfortunally, nothing on Westbrook yet..
Partial Measurements and Combine Results Releasedby: DraftExpress June 3, 2008We’ll be posting the entire spreadsheet shortly, but here are some of the most interesting results. Keep in mind that this is hardly the holy grail in regards to talent evaluation. But people definitely love to look, which is why we rushed out the first results.
Michael Beasley measured at 6-7 without shoes, and 6-8 ¼ with. His wingspan in 7-0 ¼ and his standing reach is 8-11. He did fairly well in the combine, lifting the 185 bar 19 times, jumping 35 inches on the max vert, but measuring a slightly high body fat at 7.7%
Derrick Rose came out a bit shorter than advertised, at just 6-1 ½ in shoes and 6-2 ½ in. He has a 6-8 wingspan, a 40 inch vertical and ran the 3/4 court sprint very fast at 3.05.
Brook Lopez is a legit 7-footer in shoes. He also has a phenomenal 7-5 ½ wingspan and an outrageous 9-5 standing reach. He did not do very well at all in the combine though, jumping just 30 inches in the max vert and coming dead last in the lane agility drill at 12.77.
Jerryd Bayless is a legit 6-3 in shoes, and he has expected has a very poor wingspan at 6-3 ½. He did well in the combine, though, jumping 38 inches, lifting the 185 bar 10 times, running 11.26 in the lane agility drills, and sprinting ¾ court in 3.07 seconds.
Kevin Love measured out reasonably well—6-9 ½ in shoes (6-7 ¾ without), with a 6-11 ¼ wingspan and an 8-10 standing reach. His body fat is still very high at 12.9%, but in the combine he jumped 35 inches, lifted the 185 bar 18 times, and ran very well (11.17, 3.22)
O.J. Mayo is 6-3 ¼ without shoes, 6-4 ½ with, with a 6-6 wingspan and 8-3 standing reach. He had the second best vertical leap at 41 inches and ran 11.04 and 3.14.
Eric Gordon is 6-3 ¼ in shoes, with a terrific 6-9 wingspan. He jumped 40 inches, lifted the bar 15 times, and ran 10.81 and 3.01. He plays like a great athlete, and tested out well too.
Anthony Randolph is 6-10 ¼ in shoes, with a freakish 7-3 wingspan and 9-1 standing reach. He is skinny as expected at 4.7% body fat, jumped 35 inches on the max vert, and ran just OK at 11.86 and 3.26.
DeAndre Jordan came in an inch short at 6-11, but has an outrageous 7-6 wingspan and 9-5 ½ standing reach that more than compensates. He jumped poorly at 30.5 inches, lifted the bar 8 times, and ran the drills in 12.3 and 3.27 seconds.
The biggest wingspan: John Riek at 7-8 ¾. His standing reach was N/A. Probably too long to believe. We’re told its 9-10, and certainly believe that.
Biggest standing reach: JaVale McGee- 9-6 ½.
Lightest Player: Mike Taylor- 166 pounds, followed by D.J. Augustin at 171.
Heaviest Player: Kentrell Gransberry- 290 pounds
Lowest Body Fat: Lester Hudson- 3.4%
Highest Body Fat: Kentrell Gransberry -17.4% body fat
Best no-step vertical: Patrick Ewing- 35 inches
Best Max-Step Vertical: O.J. Mayo- 42 inches (tied with Ewing)
Bench Press: Josh Duncan 26 reps
Fastest Lane Agility: Sonny Weems- 10.58 seconds
Fastest ¾ Court Sprint: Sonny Weems- 2.96, (Joe Alexander 2.99)
Others:
Joey Dorsey measured in at only 6’6.25 without shoes, and 6’7.25 with shoes, but had a +7.5 wingspan and managed a very respectable 19 reps off 185 on the bench.
DeVon Hardin stands 6’10.75 in shoes with a 7’3 wingspan, he had 20 reps on the bench and recorded a 32” max vertical leap.
Josh Duncan put up 26 reps of 185 on the bench, recorded a 32” max vertical leap, is 6’8 without shoes, and recorded a body far percentage of only 5.4%.
Patrick Ewing Jr. recorded the highest max vertical leap on the day recording 42”, but struggled on the bench, finishing with only 2 reps. His is 9.4% body fat was surprising for a player of his build as well. At only 6’6 without shoes, he’s between positions with his measurables and game very much in conflict.
Richard Hendrix tested out very well. He is a hair under 6-9 in shoes, has a 7-3 wingspan, a 9-0 standing reach, and ran a 10.62 and 3.27. He jumped just 28 inches in the max vert. Discuss This Article in our Forums
Unfortunally, nothing on Westbrook yet..
More detailed info, this time including Westbrook:
Year: All 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 Sort: ASCDESC Min Draft Position: AnyTop 15Top 30DraftedUndrafted Average measurements by height
Name Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank Drafted
Joe Alexander 6' 7.25" 6' 8.25" 220 6' 11.5" 8' 10" 5.8 32.5 36.5 24 11.33 2.99 N/A No
Darrell Arthur 66' 3" 6' 8.5" 216 6' 10.75" 8' 11" 7.3 28.5 30 12 12.18 3.14 N/A No
DJ Augustin 5' 10" 5' 11.5" 172 6' 3.5" 7' 10.5" 8.1 28.5 35 2 11.27 37 N/A No
Jerryd Bayless 6' 1.75" 6' 3" 204 6' 3.5" 8' 1" 4.7 31 38 10 11.26 37 N/A No
Michael Beasley 6' 7" 6' 8.25" 239 7' 0.25" 8' 11" 7.7 30 35 19 116 3.24 N/A No
Eric Gordon 6' 2" 6' 3.25" 222 6' 9" 8' 3" 8.2 32 40 15 10.81 31 N/A No
Donte Greene 6' 8.25" 6' 9" 221 6' 10" 8' 0" 7.6 27.5 31.5 2 11.21 3.20 N/A No
Devon Hardin 6' 9.5" 6' 10.75" 235 7' 3" 7' 3.5" 5.8 29.5 32 20 11.49 3.33 N/A No
DeAndre Jordan 6' 9.75" 6' 11" 250 7' 6" 9' 5.5" 7.5 26 30.5 8 12.30 3.27 N/A No
Ty Lawson 5' 10.75" 5' 11.75" 195 6' 1" 7' 9.5" 5.6 28.5 35.5 14 N/A N/A N/A No
Brook Lopez 6' 11.25" 7' 0.5" 256 7' 5.5" 9' 5" 6.3 27.5 30.5 7 12.77 3.57 N/A No
Kevin Love 6' 7.75" 6' 9.5" 255 6' 11.25" 8' 10" 12.9 29.5 35 18 11.17 3.22 N/A No
O.J. Mayo 6' 3.25" 6' 4.25" 200 6' 6" 8' 3.5" 6.3 30.5 41 7 114 3.14 N/A No
JaVale McGee 6' 11" 7' 0" 241 7' 6" 9' 6.5" 5.3 27 32.5 7 12.75 3.25 N/A No
Anthony Randolph 6' 9" 6' 10.25" 197 7' 3" 8' 1" 4.7 29 35 7 11.86 3.26 N/A No
Derrick Rose 6' 1.5" 6' 2.5" 196 6' 8" 8' 0.25" 4.6 34.5 40 10 11.69 35 N/A No
Russell Westbrook 6' 2.25" 6' 3.5" 192 6' 7.75" 8' 4" 4.8 30 36.5 12 10.98 38 N/A No
* players marked with an * have an unofficial measurement that look reasonable.
+ Players marked with a + have an unofficial measurement that looks to possibly be inflated.
In the case of averages, private measurements are not included regardless of listed category.
In either case, non-official measurements should be viewed as such.
Year: All 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 Sort: ASCDESC Min Draft Position: AnyTop 15Top 30DraftedUndrafted Average measurements by height
Name Height w/o Shoes Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank Drafted
Joe Alexander 6' 7.25" 6' 8.25" 220 6' 11.5" 8' 10" 5.8 32.5 36.5 24 11.33 2.99 N/A No
Darrell Arthur 66' 3" 6' 8.5" 216 6' 10.75" 8' 11" 7.3 28.5 30 12 12.18 3.14 N/A No
DJ Augustin 5' 10" 5' 11.5" 172 6' 3.5" 7' 10.5" 8.1 28.5 35 2 11.27 37 N/A No
Jerryd Bayless 6' 1.75" 6' 3" 204 6' 3.5" 8' 1" 4.7 31 38 10 11.26 37 N/A No
Michael Beasley 6' 7" 6' 8.25" 239 7' 0.25" 8' 11" 7.7 30 35 19 116 3.24 N/A No
Eric Gordon 6' 2" 6' 3.25" 222 6' 9" 8' 3" 8.2 32 40 15 10.81 31 N/A No
Donte Greene 6' 8.25" 6' 9" 221 6' 10" 8' 0" 7.6 27.5 31.5 2 11.21 3.20 N/A No
Devon Hardin 6' 9.5" 6' 10.75" 235 7' 3" 7' 3.5" 5.8 29.5 32 20 11.49 3.33 N/A No
DeAndre Jordan 6' 9.75" 6' 11" 250 7' 6" 9' 5.5" 7.5 26 30.5 8 12.30 3.27 N/A No
Ty Lawson 5' 10.75" 5' 11.75" 195 6' 1" 7' 9.5" 5.6 28.5 35.5 14 N/A N/A N/A No
Brook Lopez 6' 11.25" 7' 0.5" 256 7' 5.5" 9' 5" 6.3 27.5 30.5 7 12.77 3.57 N/A No
Kevin Love 6' 7.75" 6' 9.5" 255 6' 11.25" 8' 10" 12.9 29.5 35 18 11.17 3.22 N/A No
O.J. Mayo 6' 3.25" 6' 4.25" 200 6' 6" 8' 3.5" 6.3 30.5 41 7 114 3.14 N/A No
JaVale McGee 6' 11" 7' 0" 241 7' 6" 9' 6.5" 5.3 27 32.5 7 12.75 3.25 N/A No
Anthony Randolph 6' 9" 6' 10.25" 197 7' 3" 8' 1" 4.7 29 35 7 11.86 3.26 N/A No
Derrick Rose 6' 1.5" 6' 2.5" 196 6' 8" 8' 0.25" 4.6 34.5 40 10 11.69 35 N/A No
Russell Westbrook 6' 2.25" 6' 3.5" 192 6' 7.75" 8' 4" 4.8 30 36.5 12 10.98 38 N/A No
* players marked with an * have an unofficial measurement that look reasonable.
+ Players marked with a + have an unofficial measurement that looks to possibly be inflated.
In the case of averages, private measurements are not included regardless of listed category.
In either case, non-official measurements should be viewed as such.
Sorry for that last post. It didn't come through in its entirety, so its a little confusing. Go to Draftexpress mock draft page and click on freatures, and then measurement's history. I was surprised by Love's 35" verticle leap, and his results in the lateral drill and 3/4 court speed. Better athlete than I thought.
Here it is. According to the measurements Love WITH shoes is taller than Arthur by an inch, but Arthur's w/o shoes measurement is messed up. I'm guessing I'll still lose on that though.
I'm pretty sure I lose for sure on the Arthur=6'8'' w/o shoes part though unless his shoes are only 1/2 an inch of extra height.
Yup. Oh well, to be fair I gave Love a lot of crap and he proved a lot of people wrong. I'm still not completely off Arthur's bandwagon even though he did dissapoint but I don't think the combine's everything.
We're going to work out Nathan Jawai btw: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-workouts.php
Well even though I liked Arthur he was already moving down my list anyways. The combines are not the end all be all, not by a long shot but the measurements don't do him any favors. He's too much of a project at this point and he really doesn't have the measurements to make taking on that project worthwhile. Would much rather go with Speights or McGee for project big men.
As far as Love goes, while the combines are impressive and it definitely raises his value in my eyes, the combines still don't account for a lot of things and for the stuff it does supposedly count for those measurements aren't always the most telling.
I'm curious whether you still like Augustin. I'm not as high on him as I used to be. His combine results didn't really hurt or help his stock, right about where you'd expect him to be. I was hoping for an outside shot at him pulling out to be a legit 6'0 but it wasn't to be. I wouldn't be upset if we took him, I just prefer we got someone at the PG spot that had a little higher upside.
As far as Love goes, while the combines are impressive and it definitely raises his value in my eyes, the combines still don't account for a lot of things and for the stuff it does supposedly count for those measurements aren't always the most telling.
I'm curious whether you still like Augustin. I'm not as high on him as I used to be. His combine results didn't really hurt or help his stock, right about where you'd expect him to be. I was hoping for an outside shot at him pulling out to be a legit 6'0 but it wasn't to be. I wouldn't be upset if we took him, I just prefer we got someone at the PG spot that had a little higher upside.
