SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
So do a ton of bigs it's a bad habit but far from fatal. Do you think spacing plays a part in the negative result?
[Game] Kings @ Rockets, 12/31/2020 4PM PST, 7PM EST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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So do a ton of bigs it's a bad habit but far from fatal. Do you think spacing plays a part in the negative result?
Can't wait to see Barnes and Halliburton get more time together. Both play very savvy without-the-ball games - Ty as a facilitator, HB as a receiver. HB is the King's most versatile shooter - 3-ball, midrange, low-post, drive, even the occasional alley-oop. He's also a much underrated passer. But he doesn't have anyone, except now w/Halliburton, w/the recognition and skills to get him the ball at the right time on a backdoor or slash into the lane. Those two will do some good things together.
King Baller
All-Star
Damn it Harden, damn it Refs. That is all.
rhythmless
Starter
You asked what he's doing that's on him. I listed a crap ton of things that are on him. I'm not talking about other people. He needs to fix himself or the rapping is all that he's going to be able to do.
I think he is one of the worst perpetrators of spacing. He moves into clogged space. He gets guarded by association.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He moves into clogged space? Exactly my point. So does Fox. So does Holmes. So does Buddy. There is a reason for that and largely a fixable one. He's not blameless but this is what coaching and gameplanning is for. The team Monte described is the one we see at the end of games and only in live or die by everything situations. We are seeing a clear window of opportunity here when playing small in high middle pick and roll. Rather than continuing to ride the things you know the wheels come off of at some point, why not try the thing that looks to have some very favorable aspects to the players your franchise is riding on to be your future? It might fail long term too. It's better to know that now rather than later though.
rhythmless
Starter
Ok if you're playing ball and you tell the point that you're setting a screen and come over, you don't dive into a space that's already filled with a defender, with no angle for you or an entry pass. If youre watching the game it becomes apparent that he doens't see this. You think coach is telling him to slip every screen and dive from said screen straight towards the basket no matter waht? Come on.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It's apparent to me that the middle is rarely clear for he and Holmes. Bagley is going to run the offense if pick and roll is that offense and obviously they aren't calling for pick and pop, they want rollers since it's the same thing he did last year too. Tonight the issue was mostly trying to power over the defense which isn't really his game anyway. The last game he had more space by default because the opponent was entirely different than both the Suns and the Rockets and you saw what he did in the first half. Malone played to the middle too but he stays big, if not huge, and isn't going to be able to clamp down the middle and switch like small ball teams do. It's just a fact, if you are playing Bagley at the 4 with no space next to him you are playing him out of position. At least once teams take the middle away as every team eventually does. This is why I couldn't understand how Malone didn't try zone D since he rarely plays small. So far Bagley and Holmes are somewhat able to make up for it with some defense here and some athletic offense plays there, but it seems to crash back down without fail. The first game against the Suns we saw him with the smalls and the spacing negated a ton of the mistakes you brought up.
reptilexcq2
Bench
Marvin Bagley's defense leave a lot to be desired. How can you let Eric Gordon bully you? You're freaking 6'9 and he's shorty.. He bullied you inside the paint and create a ton of space in front of him to get an easy bucket? Really? I was surprise to see that. And sometimes, there are certain layups that he wouldn't even challenge. I don't care how strong Eric Gordon is....no way!
You can't really expect anyone to try and offer even a balanced take on MBIII as anything that comes across as slightly supportive or optimistic for MBIII here is met by an ongoing chorus of negativity, which is occasionally tempered by claims that the negative bunch are just 'more discerning'.
He's a young guy and he's learning to play at the NBA level. I'm pleased he's putting some games together and expect he will be better at the end of the season. Does he have as much talent as the internet has cynics? No. But who does?
kb02
All-Star
The list is long. Here are the most obvious ones:
1. He has Harden guarding him in the paint, he’s a foot away and he short arms the shot. James no defense Harden. How’s that on the coach?
2. He tries to back down Gordon, gets the ball almost stripped. Recovers. Then instead of passing the ball out to a guard, he tries backing him down again and gets the ball stripped. How’s that on the coach?
3. He grabs a board and tries to go coast to coast. Almost gets it stripped. Later in the game, does the same thing, the Rockets rookie jumps him and he gets the ball stripped. Bags did have one coast to coast assist which was nice early in the game. How’s that on the coach?
4. Bags is defending in the paint and gets bullied by a parade of 6’4 rockets. Dude’s 6’10. They use the same move. Bump into Bags, he goes flying, score an easy lay up. A decent IQ player would play lower, waiting for the bump. Instead, dude still plays too high, inviting a bump. How’s that on the coach?
These are ALL between the ears mistakes. Haliburton makes a mistake and corrects it in game. It’s taken Bags three years and counting. At what point is it on the player to fix them? The coaching excuses and the playing time excuses are getting old.
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SLAB
Hall of Famer
I’ve noticed he “plays” defense like WCS. He shies from all contact and moves away from the play. When you’re that tall and lanky and athletic there’s no reason not to be ... at least passable.
Kings played hard, fell behind but came back to take the lead with some great defense from Hali/Bjeli/CoJo and timely shooting from Buddy. Bagley sucked bad and ultimately Rockets won on some favourable calls/non-calls from refs. Not a pretty game but we were very much in it, if Buddy or Fox hits one or two more threes or Bagley doesn't go 1-9 we win
Well problem is this time next year we're going to have had to decide whether we're gonna pay him the big bucks or not. It's on him to come out and prove himself. Injuries derailed his playing time, but tough luck and sucks to be us.
kb02
All-Star
Yea, it's simple: he's soft.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
1. He missed easy shots, it happens when you're struggling. The part that is on the coach is everything described in the posts above and brought up during the game, why are you pounding it inside to begin with? And BTW, Harden is known for his post D on bigs. So is Tucker. That isn't a weakness for them. Just like post play other than selectively isn't a strength for this team and certainly doesn't make Fox any better or more dangerous.
2. Again, what part of posting up is the identity of a Fox at PG and Holmes at C unit? NONE. It might get them once and awhile but it's not an identity.
3. Where did I bring up open court broken plays as being on the coach? He wants them to run and get the ball up from any position. He's said that. The overbearing issues I see are in the half court with spacing. And for the record, relative to the rest of the league at this point the Kings aren't the PACE team Monte wanted. I'm not sure how up to date they are but the Kings are tied for 23rd in PACE right now so they ARE mostly a half court team. He got stripped but he has run coast to coast with success at times too as you said so it goes both ways. Players make mistakes, coaches have to negate the mistakes by putting them in a position to succeed elsewhere so the mistakes aren't the only imprint they leave on the game.
4. Bags bullying people won't be his calling card on his best day and yes, the Rockets are capable of stuffing bigs like Bagley. It's one of their calling cards. Learn the lessons and draw up some other plays if it ain't working. If Bagley is freelancing, stop him.
Remember Jerry Reynolds. Young bigs take time. Haliburton is a different player and rare but pick and roll guards have a huge advantage in todays game so the transition should be easier. Bagley needs to improve and the smalls again look like the calling card of this team just like last year and there are a ton of reasons for hope as to how that will help Bagley have an easier time in his own right sooner than later. This isn't the team Monte wanted to see even if they've been competitive against the Nuggets. There is still more time and perhaps they develop some unreal chemistry as a big team but so far it's 1 - 2 against your prototypical small ball teams.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
kb02
All-Star
They were pounding it inside, because the Rockets were playing the lanes and getting handsy. The Kings came back by throwing the ball inside on switches. It worked when Barnes and to a lesser extent Holmes was in the paint against a smaller Rockets player. it failed miserably when Bags was the big inside.
Yes, players make mistakes. But it's year three. A third year player should not be making those types of mistakes.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And in the process of doing it they ended up down nearly double digits. The thing that really worked was high middle pick and roll. The thing that will work is that. It's the only thing that utilizes the talent they have while creating spacing. They can post up certainly at times, but again, they need to find an identity. Overall the one they are finding with the players getting the most minutes together is as a half court hustle team. Not what we heard being sold at all.
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
It's honestly disgusting and I find it extremely disheartening as a fan. I don't even know why they do it. It makes for a poorer game. Why do they make the favoritism so incredibly obvious? And why do all the announcers excuse it? This game was 100% given to the Rockets because of Harden.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
There were some iffy calls but I don't believe the game came down to the Refs. There were a couple times where we were up 5 with less than five minutes to go and we missed open 3s that would have made it 8. I believe Fox took two of them and Buddy one. That probably would have sealed it. We then were not able to deny the ball to Harden and ended up having to foul one of the best free throw shooters in the game. Finally we missed the two shots that would have sent the game to overtime. Plenty of opportunities we just came up a bit short.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Game was called nice until the last 5:00. Defense was played the same then bam all of sudden everything harden does gets foul same with wall.
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
I have never understood this logic. These things have zero bearing on the refs behavior. The fact is that in the last half of the fourth quarter, every call was given to Harden, and almost no calls were given to the Kings. I don't even know how you can defend that. Guess what? We could have also shot 60% from three and won the game. We also could have had five more steals. None of this has anything to do with the fact that the refs handed the game to the Rockets on a silver platter. Do you like getting mugged, too? You could have just stayed home you know. You knew that was a dangerous neighborhood.
TaxMan
Starter
Unfortunately, he looked more impressive to me in his rookie year. I do realize there must be progression with his skill set and he is very likely working hard on his game, but outside of the second quarter of the Denver game I’m just not seeing it translate on the floor. I’m very curious what is going through monte’s mind.
kb02
All-Star
95% of his mistakes tonight were between the ears. They're fixable, but I'm starting to seriously doubt he'll fix them during his first contract in the NBA. And I'm starting question whether he'll be with the Kings on his second contract.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I just rewatched the last 5 minutes. Here is the breakdown
-Fox drives to the basket and gets fouled but its not called
-Harden drives to the basket and gets fouled and its called
-Fox takes a short shot near the rim and a foul is called. Replay showed it was either not a foul or a ticky tack foul at best
-Harden gets the ball after a turnover by Holmes. Buddy sticks his leg out into Harden on the drive. Foul is called. It's close but id say correct call
-Harden gets trapped near the sideline. Fox tries to strip the ball but hits Harden's arm. Foul is called. Correct call
-Harden is fouled intentionally.
Harden went to the free throw line 4 times in the last 5 minutes. One call was probably not correct or ticky tack at best, 2 calls were correct and one was intentional.
John Wall had no free throw trips in the last 5 minutes.
The bottom line is the Kings missed 4 or 5 big shots in that time frame and had the really costly turnover by holmes after the defensive rebound.
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