Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
We’d probably have to take one of their bad contracts back.
KINGS PICKING 4TH IN 2022 NBA DRAFT!
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As long as it doesn't cost us a chance to keep our good players in the future, then I don't mind.
It's not like our cap space usually goes toward much value anyway when it comes to the FA market.
That would be ok….I absolutely do not want Brogdon. I also think Duarte is meh, doesn’t suck, but we would be banking on the rookies and Mike Brown pushing us over the top to the playoffs. Just not sure about that
Why not just roll the whole thing into one deal, so that the Pacers have to take the bad contract? If the Knicks are willing to structure a deal around #11 and Brogdon, then something like this would work capwise (looks like Duarte and Reddish would juuuust slide in based on next year's salaries, and would work a bit easier based on this year's salaries):
Kings give:
#4
Holiday (1/$6.2)
Kings get:
#6
#11
Duarte (3/$3.9)
Reddish (1/$6)
Pacers give:
#6
Brogdon (3/$22.6)
Duarte (3/$3.9)
Pacers get:
#4
Rose (1/$14.5)
Holiday (1/$6.2)
Knicks give:
#11
Reddish (1/$6)
Rose (1/$14.5)
Knicks get:
Brogdon (3/$22.6)
Of course, given the fact that we're picking up two additional players, it might be better for us to send out more players (like say Harkless/Lyles/Metu) to alleviate the roster crunch rather than Holiday.
This deal would track with some of the scuttlebutt going around, and seems kind of fair on all sides. Indiana pays to move up for Ivey, the Knicks get a reasonable price on a PG they covet, and the Kings get a lot of stuff.
Löwenherz
Starter
What I meant, and perhaps I should have been more explicit, regardless of whether Ivey should be the pick or not, one of the big issues with taking him is his questionable fit with Fox.
So if the Kings are to trade down, why bring in someone who presents the same problem, but is older, has a history of injuries, and is on a multi-million contract?
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This fixes the issue I've had with a trade back involving the Pacers - I don't have any interest in Brogdon. He's a good player, but a bit off the Fox/Sabonis timeline, ball dominant, and has generally missed 20+ games a season the last few years. Indy is open to moving him because he and Haliburton aren't complimentary and he and Fox would likely be a worse fit.
But if the Kings could land #6, #11, Duarte and change I'd jump at that.
Duarte is a great fit with Fox & Sabonis. He's the right age, locked in at a bargain rate, and is a floor spacer, and good team defender, who also has more ability to create his own shot than most give him credit for. He's essentially a cheaper, better defending Buddy Hield. Between he and DiVincenzo (assuming he's re-signed), we'd have a very solid SG rotation.
At #6 either Murray or Daniels would be available and possibly both if Indiana takes Ivey and the Pistons decide to go with someone like Sharpe or Mathurin instead of Keegan.
At 11 there would still be a few interesting options. Some guys that could be available there would be Griffin, Sochan, Davis, Duren, Eason, Branham, Agbaji, Liddell, possibly even Mathurin.
Sabonis
Barnes/Lyles
Daniels or Murray (Daniels would likely have to start at SF while Murray would start at the 4 with Barnes sliding down to SF)
DiVincenzo/Duarte
Fox/Mitchell
plus whoever they get at #11 and #37 (assuming #49 gets a 2 way deal) and any other FA signings and whatever they can get for Holmes, would be a big improvement to the roster.
kb02
All-Star
Yea, I'm with you. They'd have to reroute him. Otherwise, it'll likely just rehash the same issues.
I wasn't sold on Trae but I had Bagley ahead of only Bamba, and much preferred JJJ to both.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I didn't know that Murray was a 20 year old freshman. Good point. If Murray is really no better than Barnes, I see no reason to take him. What's the point? We don't need two Barnes's. Heck, we don't need one Barnes. Again: trade the pick. And while McNair is at it, trade Barnes.
Were we talking to Duarte at all last year? He seems very much like a player that Monte covets in terms of style of play. But the more I think about it, my guess is that's the starting point we're asking for from Indy: 6+Duarte. I'd love that pairing with him and DDV- a whole ton of good bball IQ and perimeter defense.
And the interesting thing about that deal is we'd still have future cap flexibility for 2023, but adding a real infusion of youth with the 2 picks and Duarte. I'm not sure what a Kings "cash" splash would look like, but they'd have a pretty great young core to add some vet talent to.
Murray took a post-grad year after high school when he had essentially no offers for college and used that time to build up his skills and body after his late growth spurt. The hope with Murray is that because he's been a late bloomer at every stage, that he still has the capability to take a larger than normal leap for a player his age. I don't know if I fully buy in to that, but he has made huge strides the last few years so it's certainly a possibility.
kb02
All-Star
A lot of his scoring was on the inside and of the grind and grit your way to a bucket type of variety. Imagine how Horford scores in the paint. That's Murray. I'm doubtful he'll be able to score at an elite level like that in the NBA.
He also doesn't have Barnes' face up, drive, and score/create ability. Not right now, at least. Maybe later? I think he's a four more than a three, so I'm a little doubtful.
What I do like about him is his shooting from range. The efficiency of his stroke and how he moves to get in position. Hence why I'm okay with him, but I guess this is a long winded way of saying I wouldn't expect Barnes level production from him next year--if he is, indeed, the pick.
"Outrageous asking price"
Suck my ___ random beat writer. Vlade ain't running the ship.
One future 1st for every spot we move down. Seems fair to me.
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I've seen the Horford comp a few places, what do you think about it for Murray? Similar demeanor on the court, does basically everything well with high impact. Murray walking in a much better spacer, but Horf walked into the NBA as an impactful defender and developed as a playmaker pretty early.
That seems very much not "win now" so if this is the asking price I actually like it. Also it's really about all I'd want from Indy being real. We already took Sabonis. If Monte liked anything else I am sure it would have been discussed then.
Trading to 6 from 4 in a 4 player draft sure seems worth two picks to me, especially if it came before draft day when there is a chance one of the big guys falls.
If teams really believe Ivey is (or could be) the best player from this draft, then you absolutely ask for a ransom to move down and let another team draft him. This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Either McNair stays put and just drafts Ivey himself or he gets a huge deal.
There's no reason to settle for a mediocre haul to move down. And that's from someone who isn't nearly as high as consensus on Ivey.
There's no reason to settle for a mediocre haul to move down. And that's from someone who isn't nearly as high as consensus on Ivey.
I agree but not so much if that pick is murray
kb02
All-Star
It’ll come down to whether he can play 5/4 like Horford on defense. I’m doubtful.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Let's be real, no team is giving up two future 1sts to move up a couple spots. We'd be laughing at the proposal if it was the other way around. That said, I have no problem with Monte pushing for an overpay. Set the price extremely high so that the starting price is so high that any negotiation still gets us a good haul.
gunks
Hall of Famer
You know what gang? I'm on the Daniels bandwagon, especially since we can probably drop all the way to 6 and get him from Indy along with a win now piece or future picks.
Ivey could be a stud scorer, but I'm sick of this franchise chasing points above everything else. What's that gotten us? Bupkiss!
DD brings smarts and potentially elite multi positional defense. For all those who wanted Ben Simmons, this guy is in that mold!
Our shooting will be horrendous without improvement from Fox + some trades/FA signings, but we could really put the clamps on opponents, something I haven't seen since that first season with Artest.
Ivey could be a stud scorer, but I'm sick of this franchise chasing points above everything else. What's that gotten us? Bupkiss!
DD brings smarts and potentially elite multi positional defense. For all those who wanted Ben Simmons, this guy is in that mold!
Our shooting will be horrendous without improvement from Fox + some trades/FA signings, but we could really put the clamps on opponents, something I haven't seen since that first season with Artest.
From Capt's proposed SAC/IND/NYK deal we'd land #6, #11, Duarte and change.
Daniels, Sochan or Eason, and Duarte would be a nice haul and definitely help improve the team defense.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I like it. No, I love it. But are the Knicks that much in love with Brogdan to give up Reddish? I sure hope so.
Depends on a lot, including protections. It's a 4 player draft and the player we are most linked with right now is squarely #5, so moving to 6 is a lot riskier than the Luka for Trae swap that was one unprotected pick. Maybe there are protections? Other teams are supposedly also offering multiple picks which makes it more interesting. Again with Luka for Trae one pick was what ATL was going to get because they could not make that deal with anyone else.
I don't think Ivey is a generational talent and I wouldn't pay more than one FRP to move up for any of the other 3, but moving down should cost more because the perception is there is a drop after 4.
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