KINGS PICKING 4TH IN 2022 NBA DRAFT!

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pdxKingsFan said:
yes value, sure, if you can't trade the pick and you go with him and he's not your guy that isn't so good
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Even if the Kings take until the deadline he'll have value because he's clearly viewed the way he is for his upside. Teams won't write him off within 4 months. Monte asked for the moon and so far hasn't gotten it and probably won't considering the teams mentioned don't really have much in the way of game changing pieces. If Monte takes Murray at 4, he'll catch a beating from the media, but it will still be victory but it will be a tainted victory because while the Kings got better, not nearly the way they could have.
 
Tetsujin said:
Givony has Sochan falling to 13, the Hornets' first pick, in his new mock. If the Hayward dump for a pick thing turns out to be a real option, that could be a good swing for the Kings.
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The more I've thought about it the more sense it makes. Yes, it's a bad contract, but it's a bad contract that ends at the same time Sabonis would be due for an extension so other than possibly re-signing Barnes, it shouldn't have much impact.

Hayward and #13 for Holmes, Holiday, Harkless, and Len works and gives Charlotte some cap relief this year and a lot next year, plus a starting center that pairs well with their franchise PG. But I'd love to also squeeze PJ Washington out of them too. Maybe throw in Metu and either a couple 2nd rounders or a lotto protected future 1st round pick.
 
Tetsujin said:
Givony has Sochan falling to 13, the Hornets' first pick, in his new mock. If the Hayward dump for a pick thing turns out to be a real option, that could be a good swing for the Kings.
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The only issue, are Sochan and Hayward worth giving up a potential max slot that at this point might be used in a rebuild? Now, that's a Vlade type of move if there ever was one.
 
SacTownKid said:
And unless Monte absolutely hates Ivey's guts (which I wouldn't understand at all personally) you take him then wait. If he busts you at least took a swing that might change the course of this franchise at some point either via development or trade. The difference to me on Murray is if Murray doesn't change much on his own, which almost NO rookie does, or looks every bit a stretch 4 role guy in this system then this value won't hold up the way an Ivey's will. The plan should be compete this year with as flexible a future cap as you can have. Get into that play in if you can. Develop your chemistry and let your young guys grow within that. If a superstar is there for the taking to add to the core go for it and use these young guys as the bait. If not, use your FA money next season to either land another major piece or build your team completely around your core. Take another step the next year. Then if Ivey did need some development he's likely to have a much higher bump in his 3-4 season than his counterparts. That's when you peak out.

On the other hand, if this is still a disaster by the deadline, you start a rebuild around a nice backcourt and use that space to make some Thunder type moves.
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The argument for drafting Murray is that 3/4 combo forwards who are plus defenders and can also stretch the floor have proved extremely difficult for us to find. His ceiling might be lower than Ivey's (I don't personally think it is) but we'd be filling a hole in the middle or our lineup that has persisted for well over a decade. He also seems extremely coachable and would fit with Mike Brown's desire to increase our paint touches. There may be some opportunities to get a player like that in free agency in a year but we always have to keep in mind that players aren't usually coming to Sacramento unless they've exhausted all other options.
 
Livinthedream said:
The Kings are still searching for a PF and wing defenders. So whatever those 2 are bringing, it aint enough and hasn't equated to more wins.
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Even if true, they are still better and bring more than Bagley ever did.

But I'd argue we haven't seen a large enough sample size to know whether it will elevate to more wins or not.

We've barely seen Domantas Sabonis and Swipa play together, let alone with those guys.

But we saw 3+ seasons of Bagley always missing time and being awful defensively when he did play.

You're fighting a losing battle here.
 
hrdboild said:
The argument for drafting Murray is that 3/4 combo forwards who are plus defenders and can also stretch the floor have proved extremely difficult for us to find. His ceiling might be lower than Ivey's (I don't personally think it is) but we'd be filling a hole in the middle or our lineup that has persisted for well over a decade. He also seems extremely coachable and would fit with Mike Brown's desire to increase our paint touches. There may be some opportunities to get a player like that in free agency in a year but we always have to keep in mind that players aren't usually coming to Sacramento unless they've exhausted all other options.
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And my argument is that he's more a 4 than 3. Which matters. It's the same reason Barnes fizzled in Dallas. Obviously, it's not the biggest deal for Sac but it definitely helps set the value on players like that. The Kings basically got Barnes for free. That's a huge part of the conversation. If they select Murray they better not, by any means, pull a Bagley on him. He needs to play, he needs to score. His value is not going to be based on upside. Give him the Lyles/Metu role and his value will be diminished. If the Kings win, it will be easier to swallow however. I'm totally OK with Murray ending up a King on draft night, always have been, but they better know what to expect.
 
SacTownKid said:
And for the record, IF Monte and the Kings are supposedly attempting to do the win now thing, they are losing most of the only pieces out there to actually do it to a competitor doing the same thing. This could put the BS stamp on the Kings looking to sell off for middling vets.
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Hopefully Monte isn't making this more difficult than it has to be. If you like a guy and it will help the team turn the corner, just go get him.
 
SacTownKid said:
The only issue, are Sochan and Hayward worth giving up a potential max slot that at this point might be used in a rebuild? Now, that's a Vlade type of move if there ever was one.
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It doesn't close our max contract window completely, it just pushes it back a year. I think the 2024 FA class is better anyway. But we are cutting it close at that point with convincing Sabonis to stay. Hayward needs to transform himself into a consistent (40% or better) spot-up shooting threat for the next two years and our two rookies need to hit right away. It's a gamble that might pay off. I'm not sure that I would risk it, but I'm tempted.
 
SacTownKid said:
The only issue, are Sochan and Hayward worth giving up a potential max slot that at this point might be used in a rebuild? Now, that's a Vlade type of move if there ever was one.
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If Hayward is healthy enough to at least give us 50 games a season? Maybe. The guy's still a solid player though he's not the same level he was prior to horrifying ankle injury.

Sabonis/(Jones?)/Queta
Collins/Lyles/Metu
Hayward/(Otto Porter?)/Sochan/
Ivey/DDV
Fox/Mitchell

is maybe not the most exciting team potential-wise but would probably be a playoff team at the very least with Ivey+Sochan+Davion being potential moveable young assets in a bigger trade for a star. Given another year or two, Collins's salary won't be a huge albatross what with the cap rising and the Kings not being achingly desperate to move him like the Hawks are. And Hayward's salary comes off the books the same year Sabonis is a free agent, giving us maneuverability to sign another big piece in conjunction with Domas.
 
Tetsujin said:
Givony has Sochan falling to 13, the Hornets' first pick, in his new mock. If the Hayward dump for a pick thing turns out to be a real option, that could be a good swing for the Kings.
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As far as I'm concerned, it has to be either or with the Hayward dump and the Collins deal. Get both and this team is starting to look mighty expensive.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Even if true, they are still better and bring more than Bagley ever did.

But I'd argue we haven't seen a large enough sample size to know whether it will elevate to more wins or not.

We've barely seen Domantas Sabonis and Swipa play together, let alone with those guys.

But we saw 3+ seasons of Bagley always missing time and being awful defensively when he did play.

You're fighting a losing battle here.
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I'm not fighting a battle. I enjoy the discussion and that's all.

Without getting deep in it and derailing the thread further, my only argument about Bagley has been how they used him and how they didn't do what any team with a #2 pick should do.

As far as Lyles and DDV. I like both players. My only gripe is that Lyles should shoot more (a lot more) and DDV should shoot less.
 
hrdboild said:
It doesn't close our max contract window completely, it just pushes it back a year. I think the 2024 FA class is better anyway. But we are cutting it close at that point with convincing Sabonis to stay. Hayward needs to transform himself into a consistent (40% or better) spot-up shooting threat for the next two years and our two rookies need to hit right away. It's a gamble that might pay off. I'm not sure that I would risk it, but I'm tempted.
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It's too much of a gamble IMO. Sochan is a decent prospect defensive role guy, and Hayward would provide some things, but that year being pushed off could potentially cement your team so that Sabonis doesn't come back. If this team is a disaster 4 months into next year it would make it very difficult to either fix things in the interim around Fox/Sabonis or kick off a rebuild. Those expirings could be very valuable. I can kind of see the Collins thing, but Hayward is a 50/50 bet.
 
For all the talk about how the Kings “hold the keys to the draft” and everybody being so high on Ivey…

I find it somewhat interesting that in a guard driven league there hasn’t even been a hint that he could dislodge just one of the three bigs projected ahead of him. Especially considering that none of those three bigs except maybe Smith are considered slam dunks themselves.

I just find that surprising. Maybe it’s about the particular teams picking in the top 3.
 
SacTownKid said:
It's too much of a gamble IMO. Sochan is a decent prospect defensive role guy, and Hayward would provide some things, but that year being pushed off could potentially cement your team so that Sabonis doesn't come back. If this team is a disaster 4 months into next year it would make it very difficult to either fix things in the interim around Fox/Sabonis or kick off a rebuild. Those expirings could be very valuable. I can kind of see the Collins thing, but Hayward is a 50/50 bet.
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I realize I'm in the minority here but I think Sochan has as much star potential as Ivey does. Kid's shooting percentages aren't great but his shot's not broken and he's got creation ability. On defense he can guard 1-5. He's this year's Scottie Barnes in my opinion.
 
Tetsujin said:
If Hayward is healthy enough to at least give us 50 games a season? Maybe. The guy's still a solid player though he's not the same level he was prior to horrifying ankle injury.

Sabonis/(Jones?)/Queta
Collins/Lyles/Metu
Hayward/(Otto Porter?)/Sochan/
Ivey/DDV
Fox/Mitchell

is maybe not the most exciting team potential-wise but would probably be a playoff team at the very least with Ivey+Sochan+Davion being potential moveable young assets in a bigger trade for a star. Given another year or two, Collins's salary won't be a huge albatross what with the cap rising and the Kings not being achingly desperate to move him like the Hawks are. And Hayward's salary comes off the books the same year Sabonis is a free agent, giving us maneuverability to sign another big piece in conjunction with Domas.
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I know, haha, it looks right but if it doesn't work it's a scary thought. This is a total "all in" move. We've heard, "get to the play in", not this. This would put Vlades ballsy moves to shame haha. If it worked yeah, it would be interesting but holy cow.
 
Spike said:
So do all 2s.
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Lies, Curry 3s, break spirits. Barnes 3s do nothing but say, bet he will miss the next one. Even buddies 3s where somewhat special. You can deny a specialist doing what they do best has a impact then some random 3. Same with a monster dunk. Don't give me that old school, just lay it up and save energy garbage!
 
SacTownKid said:
I know, haha, it looks right but if it doesn't work it's a scary thought. This is a total "all in" move. We've heard, "get to the play in", not this. This would put Vlades ballsy moves to shame haha. If it worked yeah, it would be interesting but holy cow.
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If anything, it's the years of Vlade-induced trauma that is clouding all of our judgements. If Geoff Petrie were the one pulling off these moves, we'd be throwing him a parade down Capitol Mall haha
 
Still not clear on how anyone having a problem drafting Ivey thinking he's a bad fit. Not sure how his camp hinted to this either.
Are some people thinking Davion is gonna be starting at pg next year and Fox is somehow our SG now?
Ivey is a 2.

It's funny cause on trade boards most of the teams licking their chops to move up and grab him have a starting PG already in place. ie; Pacers, Hawks, Detroit.... Heck even OKC just picking him.
How come when it comes to us people don't think he fits?? :rolleyes:
 
Sam0ah said:
We got to just draft at 4. We were lucky enough to move up. It would be a crime to not take BPA here. Don't overthink it.......
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I agree completely.

If I was in charge, I'm making a pick at 4 unless some gm REALLY gets desperate and offers something I just can't refuse. Which to me means a DRASTIC overpay. Something even a near brain dead fan couldn't turn down.

Assuming that doesn't happen, I'm taking best talent available regardless of fit.

I'm not big on Banchero myself, but if either Jabari Smith or Chet Holmgren inexplicably fall to 4 -- I accept the gift and don't think twice.

If neither fall, I think I take Jaden Ivey and figure things out later.

If they take Keegan Murray at 4, I won't be upset but I will wonder if we made the same mistake as 2018 until proven otherwise.

I won't go as far as saying I'll be upset if Banchero, Mathurin, Sharpe or Daniels is selected at 4 but I will be far less thrilled until proven otherwise.
 
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