Kings pick up option on G Ben McLemore (The Associated Press)

[206Fan]

Er...people kinda are. But Porter had the excuse of largely missing his first year. And Len flashed some development last year, although I don't like him as much as the other young bigs.

Here's another name BTW: Jared Sullinger. With Lee's arrival in Boston, Sullinger might be on the outs there. And he ALMOST represents a second scoring big with stretch possibilities too (although when you look at the numbers, he's a sub-30% 3pt shooter maybe just shooting them because coaches nowadays are stupid). Lousy defender, but then again I always figured our stretch guy might be, let the other 3 longer guys defend.

But anyway, the thing is that Ben is weak. Nice kid. But weak. His game is limited, but its his inherent timidity that is often the issue. And surprisingly after having seen the team a few times that is looking to me to be more of an issue than I thought it would be. We are going to need a third scorer in that starting lineup, a real one, because we have 2 true roleplayers there who aren't at all, and Cuz and Rudy can't take every shot without spacing help. And Marco seems a good bench fit. I had thought with all the vets that Ben was gravy, but right now its looking like once again we need him to be things he has not shown himself to be. I was hoping maybe Butler could fill that gap, but he might be done. Anderson is just a highly highly mediocre player. Almost like one of those randomly generated fill in players completely average at everything that computer games generate if you are short a player. If you are starting him its a bad sign that you are giving up. The thing we have not seen yet that I was anticipating might buy us 10-15 min a game is Rondo/Collison together in the backcourt -- I was hoping we might only need 36 min of quality SG play because we were going to cheat with 2 PGs for stretches.. But so far that hasn't been out there.

I think I pioneered the Ben for Kevin idea last year. The summer FA haul would have made that less on my mind then it was previously, but it still sits there. It does feel like closing a door. But then again, if the move took us from a 40 win team with a positional./spacing hole and made us a 48 win playoff team with enough spacing/scoring/guard play...maybe its opening a long closed door instead. Of course ironically its Kevin's own mentality, his softness and lack of attention to defense, that keeps him as impactless as any 20pt scorer is ever likely to be. But we don't need an impact guy per say. We need a real shooter, which Kevin is, who can cut/play off the ball, which Kevin can, and who demands teams guard him and tight, which Kevin does. He can score 15ppg in his sleep. In fact only 1 year has he never not, when he averaged 14ppg as an impactless 6th man for OKC. he still averaged 20ppg last season, when available. He's not wildly efficient anymore, but still acceptable. And if the position is just not going to be filled by a quality NBA player with fire in his belly, well maybe Kevin could be our Courtney Lee or Jeff Green. The one extra vet/gun who fills a hole and let's you fly. You would be giving up on the idea of having a backcourt defender, this year at least. But the overall backcourt depth would be some of the best in the league, and Collison/Beli turn into sort of that bench mob pairing.

Cuz 25
Rudy 20
Kevin 15
Rondo 8
WCS 6

Belinelli 12
Collison 10
Koufos 7-8
Omri 7-8

Acy
Butler
Anderson

Moreland
Curry

it would be enough. If Rondo is back to playing defense it would be enough. We'd have solid defensive PGs, strong defensive bigs. We would have a decided defensive hole at the wing, but otherwise that's pretty complete. I would just assume plug an active and engaged and defensive minded Ben in there at 12ppg in place of Kevin, but I'm not going to sit around squelching the best team we have had in a decade's chance while waiting on it. If you win, midlevel FAs will come. You don't have to operate on a scarcity model anymore. Basically if Kevin ages out and you are a 50 win team as he declines, you will have plenty of shots to replace that level player in future free agency.

Porter was limited by his injury, but he spent a sum of games in the DL. We couldn't afford that with Ben because of our lack of depth, but it shows you porter wasn't doing much. He had much more PT in his 2nd year(last year), but he only averaged like 6pts 3rebs. It wasn't until the playoffs that he was given 30mins and a much bigger role.

I agree that we do need a 3rd scorer in our starting lineup. That's problem the biggest hole on this team, however, I think we can get away with it because we have such a loaded bench with Collison, Belinelli, Casspi, and Kofus. All of those guys are proven decent offensive players.

With K-Mart, I just can't overlook his defensive deficiencies. I'd warm up to the idea if Bjelica was included. I think he's the real prize.

Kevin hasn't had the opportunity to face Klay like the kings have the last few years. I just don't know where he currently is...especially if you're benched in favor of LaVine..im not sure where he stands.

 

[KingMilz]

Porter was limited by his injury, but he spent a sum of games in the DL. We couldn't afford that with Ben because of our lack of depth, but it shows you porter wasn't doing much. He had much more PT in his 2nd year(last year), but he only averaged like 6pts 3rebs. It wasn't until the playoffs that he was given 30mins and a much bigger role.

I agree that we do need a 3rd scorer in our starting lineup. That's problem the biggest hole on this team, however, I think we can get away with it because we have such a loaded bench with Collison, Belinelli, Casspi, and Kofus. All of those guys are proven decent offensive players.

With K-Mart, I just can't overlook his defensive deficiencies. I'd warm up to the idea if Bjelica was included. I think he's the real prize.

Kevin hasn't had the opportunity to face Klay like the kings have the last few years. I just don't know where he currently is...especially if you're benched in favor of LaVine..im not sure where he stands.

I 100% agree which is why I suggested the Shabazz deal (who imo is better than Ben atm), if a guy like Mritoic can have the impact he did last year than imo Bjelica (who is more passive which is what we need) who is more seasoned/skilled/higher IQ /athletic/better defender with good playing time can really help an NBA team I love his game and the way he plays.

I don't really see Nemaja getting much playing time on the Twolves since they are developing Dieng/Big KAT and they got Pekovic as a main stay and KG as well.

 

[206Fan]

The only message it sends is you better be competent.

We dropped Jimmer, TRob and Nik, and the problem there wasn't us dropping them, it was us drafting them. Jimmer is just about out of the league, TRob has bounced around it like a pinball, and Nik...well I still am going to say Nik might be able to be a roleplayer, but his complete collapse last season was certainly far from encouraging. If we draft Kawhi instead of Jimmer, Drummond instead of TRob, and Payton instead of Nik, I'm guessing those guys are all still here being "developed".

A guy being young means little. You don't double down on draft busts. The key to handling them is just not to draft them in the first place.

Ben's an inbetween case, although maybe only because we've seen worse. WCS looks like he could be the best since the cousins draft.

Who says we wouldn't have ruined Khawi's development? Or Drummonds?

Jimmer was a bust..no question about it. We releases T-Rob unnecessarily early. Not even halfway through his rookie season. Stauskas is still a ?.

Not to mention how we developed Tyreke.

It's just not a good sign to any potential prospects.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Who says we wouldn't have ruined Khawi's development? Or Drummonds?

Jimmer was a bust..no question about it. We releases T-Rob unnecessarily early. Not even halfway through his rookie season. Stauskas is still a ?.

Not to mention how we developed Tyreke.

It's just not a good sign to any potential prospects.

Well, when it comes down to it, they don't have much of a choice

Another point: if you're winning, that atmosphere is much better than a losing one/mediocre one, but filled with a bunch of young guys that are being developed.

 

[Bricklayer]

Who says we wouldn't have ruined Khawi's development? Or Drummonds?

Jimmer was a bust..no question about it. We releases T-Rob unnecessarily early. Not even halfway through his rookie season. Stauskas is still a ?.

Not to mention how we developed Tyreke.

It's just not a good sign to any potential prospects.

we released TRob unnecessarily late. The day after summer league would have been more appropriate.

People get overfascinated by kids. You know what kids do? They suck. The only reason you want to mess with them at all is to go searching for one who one day might be a star, since already realized stars are too expensive to acquire. We've been proven abundantly right in dumping 2 of those 3 kids (and abundantly wrong in drafting them in the first place).

 

[Bricklayer]

Porter was limited by his injury, but he spent a sum of games in the DL. We couldn't afford that with Ben because of our lack of depth, but it shows you porter wasn't doing much. He had much more PT in his 2nd year(last year), but he only averaged like 6pts 3rebs. It wasn't until the playoffs that he was given 30mins and a much bigger role.

I agree that we do need a 3rd scorer in our starting lineup. That's problem the biggest hole on this team, however, I think we can get away with it because we have such a loaded bench with Collison, Belinelli, Casspi, and Kofus. All of those guys are proven decent offensive players.

With K-Mart, I just can't overlook his defensive deficiencies. I'd warm up to the idea if Bjelica was included. I think he's the real prize.

Kevin hasn't had the opportunity to face Klay like the kings have the last few years. I just don't know where he currently is...especially if you're benched in favor of LaVine..im not sure where he stands.

He stands as a player who averaged 20.0ppg jsut last year. 19ppg the year before.

There aren't 20 better scorers in the league, even now. Certainly not even 10 better scoring guards. He just doesn't matter, and never has on a star player scale. Make him just one of the guys, points in a box, a #3 weapon at most, and he's one of the most proven guys in the league., This is an 10yr vet with a career 18.0 scoring average.

 

[Chubbs]

I don't view it the way you do, so you're right we arrive to different conclusions. I think we are focused now on winning and rookies/younger players are generally not as productive or important as the vets, unless they are a high level player (Durants, Kobes, etc). I think we are in need of a SG that allows us to win now, and for all of Martin's deficiencies, the man is a great shooter and can create for himself when needed. If we were a developing team, I would not be as hard on Ben as I am now. In fact, I wasn't this critical of him last season because we were a developing team. However, this off-season we threw developing out the window and went into full vet mode. I won't say much more because I have already said a lot about Ben and contrary to the things I say about him on the court, I think off the court he is a good kid. At this point in time, we simply need more from the SG position. The only differences between myself and others is I don't think Ben can provide us with what we need (currently). Are we willing to live with that? You could also make the case to wait for Martin until next year when he is a free agent and then maybe have the both of them!

Look, here's my point. You've given up on him for this season before there has even been a this season.

I think Ben is serviceable with upside. Sure, we went vets this summer. But they don't last forever. Butler looks like he may have nothing left to even get through this season.

But it's still too early to make any proclamations. We can revisit whether Ben can cut it 10-15 games in and see how this all fits together. I honestly don't think he'll hold this team back and occasionally will be a major contributor. And he'll also occasionally do nothing. I'm just not particularly worried based on preseason production or lack thereof. Rondo is focusing on Rudy and Boogie, developing chemistry. He'll get to Ben. We've gotta trust that the vets know how to prepare for a season.

Who says we wouldn't have ruined Khawi's development? Or Drummonds?

Jimmer was a bust..no question about it. We releases T-Rob unnecessarily early. Not even halfway through his rookie season. Stauskas is still a ?.

Not to mention how we developed Tyreke.

It's just not a good sign to any potential prospects.

I'm unclear why that matters. WE decide who to pick. Draft picks don't pick the team.

EDIT:Sac Kings beat me to it!

 

[206Fan]

He stands as a player who averaged 20.0ppg jsut last year. 19ppg the year before.

There aren't 20 better scorers in the league, even now. Certainly not even 10 better scoring guards. He just doesn't matter, and never has on a star player scale. Make him just one of the guys, points in a box, a #3 weapon at most, and he's one of the most proven guys in the league., This is an 10yr vet with a career 18.0 scoring average.

20pts a game on the worst team in the NBA. His injuries are also going to be another question.

Trade McLemore and filter for Martin and Bjelica..not sure how salaries would work though.

 

[VF21]

20pts a game on the worst team in the NBA. His injuries are also going to be another question.

 

[jdbraver]

....what do you mean? Minnesota would trade Martin for Ben in a freaking instant. They'd probably throw us a few 2nd rounders too.

Really? I think u have beer goggles on. But hey if not I think San Antonio has a Jimmer they could sell ya.

 

[IfAt1st]

I think we need to be patient here.

I've mentioned multiple times that if this team starts winning the way many of us think they can and will, I maintain that there will be a vet SG that will come to us, wanting to fill the starting PG hole we'd have if Ben doesn't step up this year.
It's amazing how up-and-coming and especially established winning teams get players to come to them easily.
Once the team starts winning and showing they are a threat in the Western Conference, then someone will want to come here without giving up Ben prematurely. We'll likely just have to pay a bit of money by picking up their contract (which will be fine with the salary cap going up).

And in the meantime, I really doubt that Ben not stepping up will cost us many games, since he's seldom on the floor at the end of the games.

 

[VF21]

After watching tonight's game, Ben better watch out or he'll lose the majority of his minutes to DC.

 

[Sac.Kings]

After watching tonight's game, Ben better watch out or he'll lose the majority of his minutes to DC.

There's really not much to watch out for. Ben isn't stupid, I am sure he knows he's playing poorly, but it may be what's best for him if we plan on keeping him. He may need a slower approach from the bench. Regain some of his lost confidence.

You all remember this guy? This version of Ben did not lack confidence and he had a chip on his shoulder. I don't know what happened, but I know which version I want!

 

[jdbraver]

There's really not much to watch out for. Ben isn't stupid, I am sure he knows he's playing poorly, but it may be what's best for him if we plan on keeping him. He may need a slower approach from the bench. Regain some of his lost confidence.

You all remember this guy? This version of Ben did not lack confidence and he had a chip on his shoulder. I don't know what happened, but I know which version I want!

If he plays with the starters he has to hit the cold three. It's like if he doesn't get touched he can't heat up. That can't happen w a 3&D

 

[kingsboi]

wouldn't it be nice if the Kings took McCollum...he is improving every year and doesn't have suspect handles either.

 

[IfAt1st]

McCollum looks light-years better than McLemore - looks like yet another whiff by the Kings.

 

[206Fan]

Really? I think u have beer goggles on. But hey if not I think San Antonio has a Jimmer they could sell ya.

Tim Hardaway Jr. Was traded for the 2015 17th overall pick.

Not sure why you wouldn't think he's worth more than THjr

 

[KingsFanGER]

And if the Kings would have picked McCollum he would be labeled as a shot happy, too small combo guard, whose playstyle doesn't translate into wins on this board.
Picking a player is only one part of the job. Developing this player, so that he fits his role with your team is the other and the Kings did a very poor job with that.
In theory having lots of vets sounds promising. But let me add, that you have to get the "right" kind of vets. The proven winners with an unselfish hard working approach and a certain defensive mentality that translates into wins.
It's not about adding every vet you can get and hope it works.
Like already mentioned Marco and Martin are redundant. We already have our clutch, scoring SG on the roster.
And getting vets also has it's downsides. Your only way left to improve the team would be via FA or trades. There is no potential for improvement left in those guys. And to get the "right" vets via FA you have to be a contender. Barely cracking the playoffs is not enough. To get West or Smith on bargain contracts you have to have a legitimate shot at the title.
Basically transforming the Kings into a full veteran team, by adding players like Kmart, is a very risky move with the potential to ruin the short term future of the franchise.

And let me add: there are plenty of young players, who contributed big time in the playoffs. So being a veteran doesn't mean, you automatically will contribute more in certain situations.
Examples? Green, Barnes, Ezeli, Porter, Smart and Rivers.

Trading Ben for a proven 3&D player in the beginning of his prime? I'm all in!

 

[KingMilz]

I think another guy who could certainly be a possibility is one of Karl's former favorites Evan Fournier, while statistically him and Ben look similar Evan brings that certain European type game (he's a solid athlete to) with both the ability to slash well(he's a very solid ball handler) and pass well while shooting solid a bit like a more athletic Marco. As a starter last year Evan did well before Victor came back and Evan got injured which slowed his production.

In 32 games as a starter playing with a poors man version of Cousins/Gay/Rondo (in Vucevic and Harris/Payton) Evan put up 14.2ppg 45%FG 40%3pt 3rpg 2.5apg.

He's also roughly 23/24 years old which means he''s still developing.

 

[ockingsfan]

Ben has the talent. His problem is clearly in his confidence.

When he is on the floor with dmc and gay, he is the 4th or 5th option. He becomes super passive and uninvolved.

When dmc and gay are sitting out due to rest or injury he has had his best games each year (end of the year games).

Ben maybe better suited to be a more primary weapon with the second unit than a starter next to dmc and gay.

When he plays with dmc and gay out, be becomes more aggresive with his play. He is way too timid when he plays next to ball dominant stars.

Bellini should probably start for now, he would also give rondo the lights out shooter next to him in the starting line up.

 

[jdbraver]

Tim Hardaway Jr. Was traded for the 2015 17th overall pick.

Not sure why you wouldn't think he's worth more than THjr

Anthony Bennett was taken with the first pick. Sometimes teams do dumb things.

 

[upinsmoke]

Who says we wouldn't have ruined Khawi's development? Or Drummonds?

Jimmer was a bust..no question about it. We releases T-Rob unnecessarily early. Not even halfway through his rookie season. Stauskas is still a ?.

Not to mention how we developed Tyreke.

It's just not a good sign to any potential prospects.

You can make a strong argument that Evans was never given a talented team to play with but my biggest concern with him was he had so little on court chemistry with DMC. They simply didn't fit right probably because Evans court vision is not his strength and DMC is not an above the rim type of player like the uni brow. As for the Jimmer he's probably in his last few days playing on an nba court.

 

[Chubbs]

I'm still in favor of starting Ben. That's not really an endorsement of Ben. It's just that no one else fits. Bellinelli is good as the shooter off the bench. And he's a sub par defender. Marco couldn't fire away at will playing with Rudy and Boogie and that seems to be how Karl wants him to play. But that only works off the bench. This team's identity should be defense. Ben is better than Marco at defense for sure.

I'm quickly becoming less convinced he actually will start. But I really don't see Anderson or Marco or even DC as really good options. I suspect Karl will come to the same conclusion eventually.

May be a situation where Ben starts but plays less minutes many nights than Marco and DC. But that's ok. Ben should still start. It's nice having a plan B and C on nights he flails (and D and E if including Anderson and Curry).

I think the bench is a real strength with DC/KK/Marco and I think it's best to keep it that way. Last night DC put up numbers as the starter, but with no Rudy.

On a side note, after a decade of no rim protection (or just one in boogie) now there are 3! The basketball gods have smiled upon us.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I understand the frustration with Ben. But I don't understand the idea of replacing him with Kevin Martin. We have our Kevin Martin, and his name is Marco Belinelli. I'm not sure the starting lineup needs more scoring (shooting, yes, but Martin's strength is not exactly catching and shooting as much as it is creating for himself, from what I remember). We need a 3-and-D guy, and I still think we're more likely to get that from Ben than Kevin.

And it's not like the Kings have been hurting because of Ben! He was part of the starting lineup that fared quite well when healthy last season. Does that mean we can't improve it? No. Obviously, we wanted to improve at PF, and did so. But we got guys in WCS and Koufos who took what JT gave (defense, rebounding, hustle) and did that even better. (Also if you look at 82games, Thompson appeared to be more of a drag on the team than McLemore). If we want to improve the SG role, we need a more consistent 3-and-D guy. Martin may bring the former, but not the latter.

And until we see Rondo playing D again like he did in the good ol' days, I'm not sure you can say "well Rondo will cover Kevin's defensive deficiencies" either.

I was somewhat amenable to adding Martin when we needed an offensive boost at the wing and had contracts to spare (and I of course appreciate the sentimental value, for what it's worth). But I'm not sure either of those two things are the case anymore.

 

[andjel]

Here is where coach comes into play.

We are blessed with style flexibility, fast pace-grind it up and everything in between is possible with this team.

Rondo-Ben-Guy-WCS-Cousins best fits in grind it up Memphis style, inside play to cover lack of outside shooting. Slow things down.

Replace Ben and play whatever is this speedy stuff Karl insists on (if we have to play that way).

It is time for Karl to show his value.

 

[jdbraver]

Here is where coach comes into play.

We are blessed with style flexibility, fast pace-grind it up and everything in between is possible with this team.

Rondo-Ben-Guy-WCS-Cousins best fits in grind it up Memphis style, inside play to cover lack of outside shooting. Slow things down.

Replace Ben and play whatever is this speedy stuff Karl insists on (if we have to play that way).

It is time for Karl to show his value.

Are you joking? Can't you see the difference in ball movement? True some is because of the players but mostly it's Karl's system.

 

[andjel]

Are you joking? Can't you see the difference in ball movement? True some is because of the players but mostly it's Karl's system.

Joking about what specifically?

 

[jdbraver]

Joking about what specifically?

That Karl hasn't begun to show his value.

 

[andjel]

That was not my point.
You can tell that we have the best coach since Adelman (and maybe ever), did not need preseason for that.
My point was that Ben with current personnel fits to style that is not what typically Karl prefers (very fast paced, lot of ball movement, 3pts, less post-ups...).

I believe that Karl is still at learning stage with his players, and hope that he will be willing and knowledgeable to tweak little bit his preferred style to the personnel he has.
That would separate Karl as a very good coach and Karl as an elite coach... which might be the difference whether Kings will be in the playoff this year or not.

 

[The_Jamal]

I'm still in favor of starting Ben. That's not really an endorsement of Ben. It's just that no one else fits. Bellinelli is good as the shooter off the bench. And he's a sub par defender. Marco couldn't fire away at will playing with Rudy and Boogie and that seems to be how Karl wants him to play. But that only works off the bench. This team's identity should be defense. Ben is better than Marco at defense for sure.

I'm quickly becoming less convinced he actually will start. But I really don't see Anderson or Marco or even DC as really good options. I suspect Karl will come to the same conclusion eventually.

May be a situation where Ben starts but plays less minutes many nights than Marco and DC. But that's ok. Ben should still start. It's nice having a plan B and C on nights he flails (and D and E if including Anderson and Curry).

I think the bench is a real strength with DC/KK/Marco and I think it's best to keep it that way. Last night DC put up numbers as the starter, but with no Rudy.

On a side note, after a decade of no rim protection (or just one in boogie) now there are 3! The basketball gods have smiled upon us.

That's exactly why it makes zero sense to make a deal for someone like Kevin Martin. The last 2 seasons, we basically had no other option to turn to if Ben struggled, so he needed to be on the floor for 30+ MPG. Now, we have 2 excellent options to turn to for basically the entire game if Ben isn't getting it done. That's huge and puts us in a great position to continue to develop Ben without necessarily needing him to be a major contributor every game. The player situation we're in now is what he needed the first 2 seasons

The short-term gain isn't enough in a deal for a vet like Kmart. He doesn't win us a title, nor does he add more than a win or 2 to this team, if that. That's also assuming Ben doesn't take a leap this season, which many are already writing him off of.