Kings Per 100 Possessions -- The Point Guards

[Bricklayer]

basketball-reference.com has popped up with a new fun little subsection for player (and team) stats per 100 possessions. The great advantage here being that per 100 possessions corrects for both minutes played and for pace.

I thought a comparison of how our guys look vs. the rest of the league might be in order. So here are all the fulltime starters, with all our guys at the position added in:

Point guards
Westbr 35.7pts (.545TS%) 9.4reb 11.4ast 3.1stl 0.2blk 6.3TO
SCurry 32.8pts (.610TS%) 5.9reb 11.7ast 2.2stl 0.2blk 5.2TO
Kirving 30.5pts (.533TS%) 5.4reb 8.9ast 2.2stl 0.5blk 3.9TO
Thomas 29.8pts (.574TS%) 4.3reb 9.2ast 1.9stl 0.2blk 4.3TO
DLillard 29.0pts (.568TS%) 5.0reb 7.9ast 1.1stl 0.4blk 3.3TO
GDragic 29.2pts (.604TS%) 4.6reb 8.4ast 2.0stl 0.4blk 4.0TO
TParker 28.7pts (.555TS%) 3.9reb 9.8ast 0.9stl 0.2blk 3.8TO
BKnight 28.1pts (.523TS%) 5.6reb 7.7ast 1.5stl 0.4blk 4.1TO
JonWall 27.4pts (.524TS%) 5.8reb 12.5ast 2.6stl 0.7blk 5.1TO
MConley 27.4pts (.545TS%) 4.7reb 9.6ast 2.4stl 0.3blk 3.3TO
ChrPaul 27.3pts (.580TS%) 6.2reb 15.3ast 3.5stl 0.1blk 3.3TO
Bledsoe 27.0pts (.578TS%) 7.2reb 8.3ast 2.4stl 0.5blk 5.1TO
Fredette 26.5pts (.584TS%) 4.9reb 6.7ast 1.5stl 0.3blk 4.8TO
JTeague 26.0pts (.541TS%) 4.2reb 10.5ast 1.8stl 0.3blk 4.6TO
KLowry 25.9pts (.567TS%) 6.7reb 10.7ast 2.2stl 0.4blk 3.5TO
Walker 25.6pts (.499TS%) 6.1reb 8.9ast 1.7stl 0.6blk 3.4TO
Lawson 24.0pts (.554TS%) 4.7reb 12.0ast 2.2stl 0.2blk 4.4TO
Car-Will 23.4pts (.480TS%) 8.8reb 8.8ast 2.6stl 0.9blk 5.0TO
DWilms 23.3pts (.564TS%) 4.3reb 10.0ast 2.4stl 0.3blk 3.6TO
Jennngs 23.0pts (.486TS%) 4.5reb 11.3ast 1.9stl 0.1blk 4.0TO
Vasquez 22.1pts (.537TS%) 5.0reb 9.4ast 0.9stl 0.1blk 3.7TO
JermLin 21.6pts (.572TS%) 4.5reb 7.1ast 1.6stl 0.7blk 4.3TO
TrBurke 20.8pts (.478TS%) 4.8reb 9.2ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 3.0TO
JNelson 19.3pts (.515TS%) 5.4reb 11.2ast 1.2stl 0.1blk 3.9TO
Caldern 19.2pts (.596TS%) 4.0reb 7.8ast 1.4stl 0.2blk 2.1TO
Chalmrs 17.3pts (.567TS%) 5.2reb 8.6ast 2.9stl 0.4blk 3.9TO
GeoHill 16.7pts (.563TS%) 6.0reb 5.7ast 1.6stl 0.5blk 2.0TO
RFelton 16.6pts (.476TS%) 5.2reb 9.6ast 2.1stl 0.7blk 3.4TO
Beverly 16.3pts (.545TS%) 5.6reb 4.3ast 2.2stl 0.7blk 1.9TO
McCall 15.9pts (.439TS%) 4.5reb 6.8ast 1.2stl 0.5blk 2.2TO
RiRubio 14.6pts (.492TS%) 6.4reb 13.2ast 3.6stl 0.2blk 4.1TO [/color]

Two major guys only had part seasons. Both had out of character depressed numbers off of ACL tears:
DeRose 27.2pts (.446TS%) 5.5reb 7.4ast 0.9stl 0.2blk 5.8TO (10 games)
RRondo 18.0pts (.461TS%) 8.5reb 15.2ast 2.1stl 0.1blk 5.1TO (30 games)

-- several teams had no PGs worth listing

 

[The_Jamal]

Pretty good indicator. Although Jimmer is obviously way inflated with his minutes.

Steph is in a tier of his own, but IT is right there in the next tier of offensive PGs.

 

[dude12]

Pretty good indicator. Although Jimmer is obviously way inflated with his minutes.

Steph is in a tier of his own, but IT is right there in the next tier of offensive PGs.

What does it indicate? The best PG in the league is 11th in this list. So what does it indicate.

 

[Siranthony]

The list is sorted by points. But maybe it should combine points and assists and sort it out based on those. CPaul has the most assists. JWall might win best combined.

 

[Bricklayer]

What does it indicate? The best PG in the league is 11th in this list. So what does it indicate.

that's just because I chose to list these things by points. I could have, and did consider, listing it out by assists. You could choose any of the categories really. I just stuck with points to be consistent.

I do think that these numbers are surprisingly revealing in a lot of ways, not least of which as The Jamal notes by revealing the grouping which IT belongs to. But knowing your players/NBA still provides very helpful context.

The gap between gunning PGs on losing squads like IT or Kyrie, and gunning PGs on winning teams like Lillard or Parker, may to a large degree be explained by those teams establishing exactly what we again, for the 100th time, gave away when we let Reke go: additional passing posts to make up for the PG being basically selfish. Up in Portland Batum and Mo Williams split duties with Lilllard. In San Antonio Parker is just one of a mob, and multiple members of the mob moves the ball better than he, the PG does. In Cleveland and Sacramento the selfish gunners are exposed as THE ballhandlers/creaters, and there is just a significant gap there between what those players do with that responsibility, and what the John Walls or even Teagues and Lowrys do with it.

Dragic and Bledsoe is a little deceptive for the same reason for instance that Calderon's assist numbers are so low (Monta), and Lin's (Harden). That additional guard/competing passer. It and Kyrie however are the real deal. Given the ball absolutely, no competition, and just choose to shoot it rather than pass it. If we were going to make IT work as the PG, it was going to be by retaining Tyreke, adding a third passer even, and burying IT's unwillingness behind additional options. Instead we completely exposed him by sticking Marcus Thornton and Ben McLemore next to him, then upped the ante further by giving him no backup PGs and iso players are SF.

 

[Jerichoholic]

It's a nice way to compare certain stats among similar players or perhaps to see how a bench player might translate into a starter, but tells very little about the overall impact a player has the game. Also need to be careful about players with little minutes, too much of an inflator.

 

[LPKingsFan]

It's a nice way to compare certain stats among similar players or perhaps to see how a bench player might translate into a starter, but tells very little about the overall impact a player has the game. Also need to be careful about players with little minutes, too much of an inflator.

True, but it also helps point out whose numbers may be inflated because their team plays faster.

 

[The_Jamal]

What does it indicate? The best PG in the league is 11th in this list. So what does it indicate.

Scoring.

 

[Jerichoholic]

It would be a good indicator of teams that play faster for sure. Going along with that I would guess that the top players on this list with the most points per 100 possessions would also have the most shots attempted per 100 possessions and if true we kind of know who those players are anyway.

 

[dude12]

Would be nice somehow to integrate a reliable defensive metric with offensive numbers.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

wow, look how low IT is. we need to get rid of him ASAP.

 

[Npliam]

wow, look how low IT is. we need to get rid of him ASAP.

Oh brother.

 

[kennadog]

If this was by assists numbers IT would be considerably lower. Not trying to knock him, just trying to point out the silliness of the above sarcastic comment. You need to look at all the numbers.

 

[roasthawg]

RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPMWAR
1 Chris Paul LAC 62 35.0 6.03 1.95 7.98 14.47
2 Stephen Curry GS 78 36.5 6.61 -0.38 6.23 15.46
3Russell WestbrookOKC4630.74.820.215.036.88
4Mike ConleyMEM7333.54.290.434.7210.27
5Patrick BeverleyHOU5631.32.971.294.267.26
6Kyle LowryTOR7936.23.840.414.2511.56
7Eric BledsoePHX4332.90.103.964.065.77
8Ricky RubioMIN8232.21.442.463.9010.76
9Patty MillsSA8118.93.170.563.735.81
10Ty LawsonDEN6235.84.38-1.083.308.32
11Deron WilliamsBKN6432.24.88-1.663.226.92
12Tony ParkerSA6829.43.03-0.162.876.60
13Damian LillardPOR8235.84.74-1.962.789.38
14Pablo PrigioniNY6619.41.730.822.553.62
15George HillIND7632.01.930.562.497.03
16Jrue HolidayNO3433.60.422.012.433.35
17 Isaiah Thomas SAC 72 34.7 3.84 -1.63 2.21 7.17
18John WallWSH8236.32.67-0.462.218.29
19Andre MillerDEN/WSH5816.91.850.232.082.58
20Avery BradleyBOS6030.90.771.221.995.06
21Derrick RoseCHI1031.12.70-0.881.820.72
22Reggie JacksonOKC8028.51.030.651.685.81
23Devin HarrisDAL4020.52.01-0.361.651.99
24Kemba WalkerCHA7335.80.800.791.596.13
25Mario ChalmersMIA7329.80.450.901.354.87
26Greivis VasquezSAC/TOR7922.51.40-0.261.143.68
27Raymond FeltonNY6531.02.14-1.230.913.87
28Jameer NelsonORL6832.02.79-1.900.894.29
29Steve NashLAL1520.91.58-1.200.380.58
30Jeremy LinHOU7128.9-0.200.280.083.19

Here's the point guards sorted by real plus minus from espn. If you're looking for a single metric to rate players with rpm might be the best. IT is similar to Deron Williams and Damian Lilard in that he is a plus offensive player (3.84 orpm) and a minus defensive player (-1.63 drpm). He's not quite as talented offensively as Deron or Damian... but at 25 he's not quite yet into his prime either. #17 overall with two part time players ranked ahead of him... a fringe top 15 pg. And possibly still improving... sounds about right to me.

 

[dude12]

Can he improve? Sure. But it just seems physically there has to be limitations to how much he can improve. Defensively, I think his size is going to work against him.

Surprised at Patty Mills' numbers......and I didn't see Kyrie Irving up there

 

[roasthawg]

Can he improve? Sure. But it just seems physically there has to be limitations to how much he can improve. Defensively, I think his size is going to work against him.

Surprised at Patty Mills' numbers......and I didn't see Kyrie Irving up there

Irving, Teague, and Rondo were some of the notable names outside of the top 30 last year. Irving came in 42nd... orpm of 1.99 but a terrible drpm of -3.38 for a total rpm of -1.39.