[Game] Kings @ Mavericks, 3/05/2022 2pm Pacific 5pm Eastern

[hgut]

Dude, he had a .667 TS% for the day on that volume. It's not like he took 52 shots to get 44 points, it was 31 shots (and fouled twice not counting the and-1s, for 33 total "possessions ending in a scoring attempt") .667 is ridiculous efficiency, particularly at that volume, for a guard. League average TS% is about .560. Volume-shooting guards that aren't great at threes don't come close to .667. Kobe never touched .600 for a season. Jordan snuck past .600 four times, never crossed .620. And those guys were averaging low-to-mid 20s in FGA per game - that's high enough volume to start bringing down your efficiency. Your classic volume scoring guard - Allen Iverson - was at .518 TS% for his career. There may be others, but the only guard I can find who has put up .667 TS% for a season is Steph Curry, who has edged past that mark twice (both times he led the whole league in TS%) and that was on 20 or fewer FGA.

Dismissing Fox's DAY - not his season, not his career, but THIS DAY - as "volume scoring" is absolutely comical. Not unexpected, but comical.



You didn't watch the game, did you?

And again, we were playing against a team missing Doncic, THJ, Maxi. Had they played we could have easily lost by 30pt.

I think that in a loss against this Dallas team nobody gets a pass. Even with a .667 TS%.

Then what is the problem? Fox is surrounded with garbage role players? Gentry is a lot worse coach than Kidd? (I don't think that is the case)

What I do believe is that it is very difficult to build a winning team around Fox. Would this team be successful if we could surround Fox with the right players? Probably yes. But that's not the point. We cannot go out there to the market and cherry pick the very very reduced set of players that would make this team succeed with Fox as leader. That's not a realistic strategy.

The difference between a good player and a superstar, is that the superstar can adapt his game to the players in his team in order to succeed. For that reason it is a lot more simple to build winning teams around those kind of players.

Michael Jordan in his prime never missed the playoffs. Was he always surrounded by elite role players? I don't think so. But it was a lot easier to build a team around him because the pool of role players that complemented him was a lot bigger.

 

[EIM86]

And again, we were playing against a team missing Doncic, THJ, Maxi. Had they played we could have easily lost by 30pt.

I think that in a loss against this Dallas team nobody gets a pass. Even with a .667 TS%.

Then what is the problem? Fox is surrounded with garbage role players? Gentry is a lot worse coach than Kidd? (I don't think that is the case)

What I do believe is that it is very difficult to build a winning team around Fox. Would this team be successful if we could surround Fox with the right players? Probably yes. But that's not the point. We cannot go out there to the market and cherry pick the very very reduced set of players that would make this team succeed with Fox as leader. That's not a realistic strategy.

The difference between a good player and a superstar, is that the superstar can adapt his game to the players his team in order to succeed. For that reason it is a lot more simple to build winning teams around those kind of players.

Michael Jordan in his prime never missed the playoffs. Was he always surrounded by elite role players? I don't think so. But it was a lot easier to build a team around him because the pool of role players that complemented him was a lot bigger.

You can go on twitter where everybody will agree with you lol

 

[captain bill]

And again, we were playing against a team missing Doncic, THJ, Maxi. Had they played we could have easily lost by 30pt.

I think that in a loss against this Dallas team nobody gets a pass. Even with a .667 TS%.

Then what is the problem? Fox is surrounded with garbage role players? Gentry is a lot worse coach than Kidd? (I don't think that is the case)

What I do believe is that it is very difficult to build a winning team around Fox. Would this team be successful if we could surround Fox with the right players? Probably yes. But that's not the point. We cannot go out there to the market and cherry pick the very very reduced set of players that would make this team succeed with Fox as leader. That's not a realistic strategy.

The difference between a good player and a superstar, is that the superstar can adapt his game to the players his team in order to succeed. For that reason it is a lot more simple to build winning teams around those kind of players.

Michael Jordan in his prime never missed the playoffs. Was he always surrounded by elite role players? I don't think so. But it was a lot easier to build a team around him because the pool of role players that complemented him was a lot bigger.

i don’t think anyone is comparing Fox to MJ but this is a weird gripe to have after one of Fox’s best games of his career, which included some phenomenal shooting

 

[Tetsujin]

18-31
3-4 from 3
5-6 from FT

If that's not elite scoring/efficiency, literally nothing is.

The guy's averaging 26.7 pts/ 4.3 rbs/ 6.1 asts since the Domantas trade on 50.5/33.3/75.8 shooting splits.

At this point, people are complaining just to complain.

 

[hgut]

The guy's averaging 26.7 pts/ 4.3 rbs/ 6.1 asts since the Domantas trade on 50.5/33.3/75.8 shooting splits.

At this point, people are complaining just to complain.

I complain because we are still loosing.

 

[Tetsujin]

I complain because we are still loosing.

There are plenty of things to complain about but Fox isn’t one of them.


what, pray tell, could Fox have done to help increase this team’s chance of winning today more than he did?

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1500246817690193921

 

[captain bill]

I complain because we are still loosing.

We have 3 players who are legit NBA starters, the third is a wonderful person and great player but frequently disappears altogether, and our fourth best player is a rookie. If you want to complain about anyone today it’d be HB. If he has just an average game today we win

 

[steelevt]

There are plenty of things to complain about but Fox isn’t one of them.


what, pray tell, could Fox have done to help increase this team’s chance of winning today more than he did?

Duh, score 50 points, shoot 100% from the field/3pt/ft have 10 rebounds and 10 assists with no turnovers. I mean that’s not too much to ask for is it?

 

[hrdboild]

And again, we were playing against a team missing Doncic, THJ, Maxi. Had they played we could have easily lost by 30pt.

I think that in a loss against this Dallas team nobody gets a pass. Even with a .667 TS%.

Then what is the problem? Fox is surrounded with garbage role players? Gentry is a lot worse coach than Kidd? (I don't think that is the case)

What I do believe is that it is very difficult to build a winning team around Fox. Would this team be successful if we could surround Fox with the right players? Probably yes. But that's not the point. We cannot go out there to the market and cherry pick the very very reduced set of players that would make this team succeed with Fox as leader. That's not a realistic strategy.

The difference between a good player and a superstar, is that the superstar can adapt his game to the players his team in order to succeed. For that reason it is a lot more simple to build winning teams around those kind of players.

Michael Jordan in his prime never missed the playoffs. Was he always surrounded by elite role players? I don't think so. But it was a lot easier to build a team around him because the pool of role players that complemented him was a lot bigger.

A couple points...

The idea that good NBA teams become terrible when their best player(s) are sitting has been disproven over and over again this season. Their previous game was a win over GS with Doncic playing. They took 85 shots. Their average on the season is 85.7 shots per game. In this game without Doncic they took 84 shots. How are they going to score 30 additional points on one more shot? It's just a lazy argument that ignores the reality of how basketball works. Dallas is one of the hottest teams in the league. They're 22-7 in 2022. Even without Doncic they're not just going to roll over, especially at home.

And secondly, Michael Jordan? Michael Jordan?! If the baseline standard here is the greatest NBA player of all time, what are we even doing? Just close up the arena right now. It is possible for star players to ball out and still lose. The Lakers are nosediving out of the playoffs, that doesn't make Lebron any less incredible as an individual player this season. The Kings are 4-6 since Sabonis started playing and between this game and the second Denver game they came very close to being 5-5. That's better than we've been in a long time. Of course it's a small sample size, but that goes both ways. If you don't think the Kings can win with Fox you might be right but it's waay too early to start saying "I told you so" about the Fox/Sabonis duo being a lost cause.

 

[hgut]

There are plenty of things to complain about but Fox isn’t one of them.


what, pray tell, could Fox have done to help increase this team’s chance of winning today more than he did?

I would like to have seen a player creating easy shoots for his teammates when he was not finishing the plays himself. Most of the 3pt shoots that Holiday or DDV had to take today were very difficult shots.

He could have played more consistent defense during the whole game. (Dinwiddie has scored 36pt on us! A guy averaging less than 14pts this season. And similar for Jalen Brunson). Bricklayer would agree with me.

He could have hit more shots in the fourth quarter when it really matter. Including a critical free throw.

 

[hgut]

A couple points...

The idea that good NBA teams become terrible when their best player(s) are sitting has been disproven over and over again this season. Their previous game was a win over GS with Doncic playing. They took 85 shots. Their average on the season is 85.7 shots per game. In this game without Doncic they took 84 shots. How are they going to score 30 additional points on one more shot? It's just a lazy argument that ignores the reality of how basketball works. Dallas is one of the hottest teams in the league. They're 22-7 in 2022. Even without Doncic they're not just going to roll over, especially at home.

And secondly, Michael Jordan? Michael Jordan?! If the baseline standard here is the greatest NBA player of all time, what are we even doing? Just close up the arena right now. It is possible for star players to ball out and still lose. The Lakers are nosediving out of the playoffs, that doesn't make Lebron any less incredible as an individual player this season. The Kings are 4-6 since Sabonis started playing and between this game and the second Denver game they came very close to being 5-5. That's better than we've been in a long time. Of course it's a small sample size, but that goes both ways. If you don't think the Kings can win with Fox you might be right but it's waay too early to start saying "I told you so" about the Fox/Sabonis duo being a lost cause.

Jordan is just an example to illustrate the point.

It can be Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Kawhi Leonard, Steph Curry, ....

 

[SLAB]

Worth noting that today was loss 42, clinching our 15th straight losing season. Go Kings!

I LOVE MY TEAM!

 

[The_Jamal]

And again, we were playing against a team missing Doncic, THJ, Maxi. Had they played we could have easily lost by 30pt.

I think that in a loss against this Dallas team nobody gets a pass. Even with a .667 TS%.

Then what is the problem? Fox is surrounded with garbage role players? Gentry is a lot worse coach than Kidd? (I don't think that is the case)

What I do believe is that it is very difficult to build a winning team around Fox. Would this team be successful if we could surround Fox with the right players? Probably yes. But that's not the point. We cannot go out there to the market and cherry pick the very very reduced set of players that would make this team succeed with Fox as leader. That's not a realistic strategy.

The difference between a good player and a superstar, is that the superstar can adapt his game to the players in his team in order to succeed. For that reason it is a lot more simple to build winning teams around those kind of players.

Michael Jordan in his prime never missed the playoffs. Was he always surrounded by elite role players? I don't think so. But it was a lot easier to build a team around him because the pool of role players that complemented him was a lot bigger.

You trying to tell me Fox isn't MJ in his prime?


nooooooooooooooo waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[hgut]

You trying to tell me Fox isn't MJ in his prime?


nooooooooooooooo waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Well, thank you! At least I get that!

 

[The_Jamal]

I complain because we are still loosing.

I'll be griping right there with you if this isn't fixed next season. After a coach, another (hopefully good) FRP and a few good off-season acquisitions through FA and a Holmes deal. McNair clearly put this team on a 2 year timeline; if it's not shaping up around game 40-50 next year, we're in serious trouble. That's the risk he took by dealing Hali; he said Fox+Sabonis+Barnes+his coach can be a playoff winner in 1 and a half seasons.

I just don't get why people care about W/L's this year. It's never been about that. McNair told us that himself in his pressers and showed us by holding on to his future draft capital.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Jordan is just an example to illustrate the point.

It can be Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber, Kawhi Leonard, Steph Curry, ....

Is "the point" that De'Aaron Fox isn't a Hall of Famer?

 

[kingsfan101]

And again, we were playing against a team missing Doncic, THJ, Maxi. Had they played we could have easily lost by 30pt.

I think that in a loss against this Dallas team nobody gets a pass. Even with a .667 TS%.

Then what is the problem? Fox is surrounded with garbage role players? Gentry is a lot worse coach than Kidd? (I don't think that is the case)

What I do believe is that it is very difficult to build a winning team around Fox. Would this team be successful if we could surround Fox with the right players? Probably yes. But that's not the point. We cannot go out there to the market and cherry pick the very very reduced set of players that would make this team succeed with Fox as leader. That's not a realistic strategy.

The difference between a good player and a superstar, is that the superstar can adapt his game to the players in his team in order to succeed. For that reason it is a lot more simple to build winning teams around those kind of players.

Michael Jordan in his prime never missed the playoffs. Was he always surrounded by elite role players? I don't think so. But it was a lot easier to build a team around him because the pool of role players that complemented him was a lot bigger.

I didn't watch the game, and haven't bothered to read the discussion, but based on the scoreboard, it's ridiculous to blame Fox for this loss. These "you can't build a winning team around Fox" kind of statements are absolutely worthless. There have been absolutely great players in the league, who won nothing, and didn't even sniff the playoffs without a solid team and structure around them (think McGrady had a 19 games losing streak once. Am sure there will be other examples if we search). And no, I am not saying that the team around Fox is as bad/worse than what McGrady had. We are likely better, but we are also talking about a 19 games losing streak for one of the greatest scorers ever.

I have been making a case for the team playing hard and not tank for a higher pick for a while now, primarily with the idea that winning is a "habit" and a system helps. It's not that I am discounting talent, but you can collect great pieces, but regularly fall short if you don't embellish them with good habits/system, particularly a young team. Winning teams will find ways to win even with a depleted roster, while bad teams will find ways to lose even from a position of strength.

Lastly, as a counter to my own point, I think we are at a stage, where tanking for position is now a reasonable option. We have a very poor chance of making the playins, and an extremely poor chance of making the PO. I would rather the team mailed some in and get a good position. It's contrary to what I have been saying the whole season, but the roster and coaching staff will likely see a big churn this summer. We might as well get a high pick, and hope we have three solid pieces, along with hopefully improved performances from Davion and Donte to have a solid 5 men core, and some vets like Barnes, TD, Holmes, Metu. Depending on where we draft and whom we land as a coach, this has the potential of a strong nucleus.

 

[hgut]

Is "the point" that De'Aaron Fox isn't a Hall of Famer?

Yes, that could be the point.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yes, that could be the point.

Well, if that's the point, it gets a big fat "So what?" out of me... Is that where the line is?

 

[hgut]

Well, if that's the point, it gets a big fat "So what?" out of me... Is that where the line is?

If we ever want to win a championship probably yes.

 

[sactowndog]

Who cares. I’ve stopped watching and have mostly stopped caring. The Kings will likely finish in the 8-9 draft spot because that is the one thing at which this team excels.

It’s takes a special talent to be this bad this long and the Kings excel at it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If we ever want to win a championship probably yes.

If you say so. I don't have any emotional investment in the Kings winning a championship, so I don't need Fox to be "best player on a championship team" good. If he's "best player on a playoff team" good, then that's good enough for me, and I'm of the opinion that he is that good. Only time will tell, I suppose.

 

[EIM86]

I complain because we are still loosing.

if you’re expecting instant success, Sacramento is not the right franchise to be a fan of LOL

 

[Tetsujin]

Like, I’m not even down on the discussion of whether Fox is our franchise player or whatever. I’m just wondering why this game in particular is the one you’d point to.

 

[SacTownKid]

We have 3 players who are legit NBA starters, the third is a wonderful person and great player but frequently disappears altogether, and our fourth best player is a rookie. If you want to complain about anyone today it’d be HB. If he has just an average game today we win

Yeah I think it's becoming clear the Kings are going to have to find a third alpha to go along with Fox and Sabonis and Barnes is already fitting right in as a system sidekick. Could Davis, Barnes, and a top 10 pick be enough depth? Maybe. There was supposedly interest in Julius Randle at the deadline If you could add him to Fox and Sabonis you might have something very interesting. Two 5 apg bruising bigs and a star scoring PG. Hmmm....

 

[Tetsujin]

Yeah I think it's becoming clear the Kings are going to have to find a third alpha to go along with Fox and Sabonis and Barnes is already fitting right in as a system sidekick. Could Davis, Barnes, and a top 10 pick be enough depth? Maybe. There was supposedly interest in Julius Randle at the deadline If you could add him to Fox and Sabonis you might have something very interesting. Two 5 apg bruising bigs and a star scoring PG. Hmmm....

Not for nothing but at this point, the Knicks are so down on Randle that you could probably convince them to send you a pick back just for taking him off their hands.

 

[serbiangoat]

Was Sabonis often in foul trouble for the Pacers..or is this a new tax for being on the Kings?

Yes the guy plays as physical as anyone in the NBA and fights on every possession he's bound to every other game pick up a couple cheapies it just goes with his style, but I don't think it was anywhere near as bad as Cousins was for his first 4-5 seasons.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Welp!!!

Not only do we lose this game, but we also get "roasted" on national television by Jeff Van Gundy, who, during the Warriors-Fakers game tonight, made sure that those of us who were watching knew that, in the 36 season history of SACRAMENTO Kings basketball, only 8 of those saw us finishing with a winning record. To make things worse? He also went on to mention that our coach during those 8 seasons of winning SACRAMENTO Kings basketball was, you guessed it, RICK ADELMAN!!!

In other words, folks, Jeff Van Gundy pretty much said that WE (the SACRAMENTO Kings FRANCHISE) SUCK.

And, to be very perfectly honest with you...Until we right this wronged ship, I am going to actually agree with the dude.

Welp!!!

 

[206Fan]

I'm becoming less and less of a DDV fan. He's an absolute chucker with really poor shooting % this year. Anytime he launches a 3pt shot, I expect nothing less than a long rebound for the other team. He does so many great things, but I can't look past his chucking tendencies.