Kings @ Magic Game Thread
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10 years ago our reward for being the 7th seed was to get stomped by orlando in the first round, and I wouldn't have traded it for anything.
Amir has a little too much Stephen Jackson in him for my tastes. I'm hoping he matures and realized he has an incredible future and only he can ruin it.
BTW, you failed to mention Alex Acker, who we sent overseas and has developed into a very good SG, and Chieck Samb, the center we traded Mo Evans for, and is also developing in Spain.
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DaMan
Starter
I wasn't watching the game but the refs where sure on kings side, lol. the magic only took 25 fts compared to the kings 48 fts, and it look like Martain pulled a wade by shooting all most half of the teams free throws with 20. And Martain got 20 points off only one 2 point fg and the rest off free throws, we can't say the ref did not give us this one.
You're probably getting the wrong idea.
This has been a horrific season for us. A good majority of us still haven't gotten over the dismissal of Rick Adelman. We've watched the team we love go from something truly special to a team where the coach gets a DUI before the season even starts, our top defensive player has had a dog taken away because of mistreatment AND is facing domestic violence charges, our point guard has suffered a myriad of injuries AND a slump that have kept him from being the Mike Bibby we've known and loved, we don't have a power forward - and yet the last real power forward we had (the one people swore was all washed up) is now playing center quite successfully back in his home town, our center seems to be the smallest 7 footer in the history of the NBA... and did I mention a great number of us are becoming more and more convinced Bozo the One-Legged Monkey might be able to do a better job of coaching?
A lot of us here are really die-hard Kings fans. We've been around since the 80s. We just can't get real excited after one win that wasn't so much a case of our team winning as the other team losing. If you look at the stats, there's no way we should have won this game. A gimme by the Magic just isn't going to get us all giddy inside...
We want our Kings back. The Kings that took our breath away and had nearly 200 people a night on this board talking about them. We still love the Sacramento Kings; we just don't know who they are any more and, unfortunately, neither do they...
LOL!
You didn't watch the game and so you assume the officials must have given it to us?
Au contraire. The Magic gave it to us. They continually hacked Kevin any time he went near the paint. The Magic took fewer FTs because the Kings didn't do much paint defense. And if you don't foul anyone, he's not going to get to the line.
It's always dangerous to try and judge a game by looking only at the statistics. This was one of those games...
We know that. It's easy for people on the outside to come and tell us what we should or should not feel. It never goes over very well. Misery doesn't always like company. Especially when the company has a team in first place ... and heading deep into the playoffs.
Not telling you how you should feel. Just saying that not making the playoffs can often cause more damage than a 13th or 14th draft pick can help.
I'm more than familiar with being miserable and routinely getting bounced out of the first round, and being miserable and going 20-62 and your season being over mid-april. It's because I'm familiar with both that I have such a strong opinion about the latter.
A winning environment is more important to keep than a slightly more talented player on draft day. Just my opinion. I've seen it turn into disaster so many times and the only thing that people remember is that San Antonio did it and got Tim Duncan.
I'm more than familiar with being miserable and routinely getting bounced out of the first round, and being miserable and going 20-62 and your season being over mid-april. It's because I'm familiar with both that I have such a strong opinion about the latter.
A winning environment is more important to keep than a slightly more talented player on draft day. Just my opinion. I've seen it turn into disaster so many times and the only thing that people remember is that San Antonio did it and got Tim Duncan.
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What will be, will be. Not making the playoffs isn't something we can decide anyway.
Some of us really want to make the playoffs but know it's probably not going to happen so we're trying to minimize the heartache...
Others don't want to make the playoffs if it means facing the Mavericks in the first round because we simply do not want to be ground to dust on national TV by a team owned by Mark Cuban.
These are complex issues for Kings fans, Kstat. A number of the people here now have never seen the Kings not make the playoffs. They came aboard in 1999 and have had a wonderful ride. They don't know what it's like to have the season over in mid-April but they're probably going to find out.
We're trying to find things to be hopeful about. It doesn't mean we would prefer to have our team stink this badly. Sometimes you have to try and make the lemonade, you know?
And no offense meant in any way whatsoever, but we don't care if your team went through the same thing. It's not about your team around here. It's about us...and our Kings.
And no offense meant in any way whatsoever, but we don't care if your team went through the same thing. It's not about your team around here. It's about us...and our Kings.
I'm not asking you to care. You said that I shouldn't tell you how to feel, implying that I didn't understand because my team was winning. I was simply responding by saying that I know very well what it's like to be a fan of a team that is struggling to win games.
The post-bad boy era was an exersize in frustration for us after the team was completely dismantled in 1992.
We were a .500 team in 1993, missing the playoffs by one game. Sucked, but we weren't horrible either. We even got an extra lottery pick for John Salley, so we figured we'd be back in 1994, with the rookie backcourt of lindsey hunter and allan houston behind old Joe and even older Isiah.
Then the bottom dropped out. We hired John Cheaney (who is a worse coach than Muss will EVER be), Laimbeer got fed up and retired in November, Isiah tore his ACL in April, and we promptly went 20-62. Not only did we lose, we lost impressively.
We wound up getting grant hill out of it that summer, and we still sucked in 1995. Finally, after 3 years 9which felt like an eternity), we snuck back into the playoffs in 1996 and got swept/obliterated by orlando in round one. Tell you what though, it was a hell of a lot better feeling than the previous years were we weren't even good enough to get obliterated.
I think from that point on we alternated between getting knocked out of the first round and not making the playoffs altogether until 2002, when we got new management and finally created an environment players could win in, and it wasn't with draft picks.
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I know you like to argue, but this is just silly...
I didn't imply that you didn't understand. I was trying to come right out and say the experiences of a Detroit Piston fan aren't necessarily comparable to a Sacramento Kings fan.
Do you know what it's like to be a fan of the only professional team in your town?
Do you know what it's like to have looming over you constantly the real or imagined fear of the team leaving?
Yes, your Pistons have gone through highs and lows but you have O'Brien trophies on display in your arena. That makes a lot of difference.
Peace.
That enabled you to draft Grant Hill though. And if he wouldn't have been so injury prone and you had kept Allen Houston don't you think that would've turned out pretty well also?
yes. the only team i really ever cared about, anyway, so it's the same thing.
yes. ask any piston fan that was around during the teal era, when the palace was re-nicknamed "the tomb." There was a lot of discussion that the pistons would move because the fanbase had quit on them.
You've got me on the championships, but it's more comparable than you realize.
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The Hammer
All-Star
Oh we know too well what you mean. Trouble for us is, we haven't seen anyone else in our organization (even our beloved gem of a GM) do anything to indicate they know that too. In fact, they seem to be doing every little thing that prevents such a thing from happening, hence the sense of "compounded despair" that you may be sensing here. Can I get a witness?
Maybe, maybe not. Allan left because we had sea monkeys running things upstairs. There was no way we were going to be more than a 1st round exit with them running the show. Even the years we sunk into the lottery after that, we never were able to get any real help.
And yeah, while we got grant hill, it didn't turn into any great fortune for us. We went 28-54 his first year while Joe Dumars was babysitting him, and we never got out of the first round with him once he matured.
The best thing we got out of Grant hill was the rights to ben wallace.
The problem with drafting a superstar at #3 is the fact your team was actually the bad enough to get the #3 pick to begin with. So now you have a young kid being asked to carry a terrible team with little to no floor leadership.
Superstars don't win championships. Teams win championships. And nobody that can be called a missing piece wants to play for a basement lottery team, so it's very hard to improve.
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The Hammer
All-Star
That's cause you were on your way up, and you had unweighted yourself from big contracts.
You have a point, but in retrospect we weren't going to be any better than how we finished in 1996. We actually went downhill a couple times and fell back into the lottery. Looking back on it, I wouldn't have traded those few playoff experiences for a couple more lottery picks. I doubt it would have made a lot of difference.
That was in the era before the "albatross contract" though. We never really had to worry about that. You didn't see guys being signed to the megabuck deals until summertime of that year (Allan Houston being one of them, ironically enough).
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love_them_kings
Starter
It probably is, but I think the championship difference is a big difference. A lot of the despair we have as Kings fans stems from several years of watching a team we loved getting oh, so close, to a championship, just to fall short. Then watching that beloved team torn to pieces, and having been on a downhill slide ever sense, it is just demoralizing.
Watching a team that once flourished suffer is never fun. I'm a big 49er fan and have suffered through their hard times after living through their glory days. But, honestly, the fact that the 49ers did win those SuperBowls makes a huge difference. Goal accomplished, time to rebuild. It's honestly a very different feeling than falling just short, and feeling like you may have lost the opportunity of a lifetime.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
What will be, will be. Not making the playoffs isn't something we can decide anyway.
Some of us really want to make the playoffs but know it's probably not going to happen so we're trying to minimize the heartache...
Others don't want to make the playoffs if it means facing the Mavericks in the first round because we simply do not want to be ground to dust on national TV by a team owned by Mark Cuban.
These are complex issues for Kings fans, Kstat. A number of the people here now have never seen the Kings not make the playoffs. They came aboard in 1999 and have had a wonderful ride. They don't know what it's like to have the season over in mid-April but they're probably going to find out.
We're trying to find things to be hopeful about. It doesn't mean we would prefer to have our team stink this badly. Sometimes you have to try and make the lemonade, you know?
And no offense meant in any way whatsoever, but we don't care if your team went through the same thing. It's not about your team around here. It's about us...and our Kings.
and some of us here realize accurately that a first round exit is valueless while a lottery pick isn't.
Actually, we were quite aware of that, but since we were in line for the 9th draft pick before this game, and hoping for about 6th, 13th/14th was not the issue. If, with the help of ugly and pointless "wins" like today's, we get 14th pick, this season will have been an absolute, unmitigated disaster.
Now that I'll agree with you on. The Pistons went their first 30 years in Detroit without even coming close, and thankfully I was only around to see a little of it. The Pistons of the late 80's were a lot like the 2000-2003 Kings, except the Kings never got the happy ending. The bitter heartbreaks of 1987 and 1988 still leave a bitter taste in my stomach even today.
I do think everyone deserves to see their team win it all once in everyone's lifetime. There really is no feeling like it as a fan. Your team can win 15 titles and none of them will ever compare to the first one. So yes, I'll agree that it a difference.
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I think it's some of both. I mean over the last 8 years(I think), the Heat have won once, the pistons have won once, the lakers won three times, and the spurs won 3 times.
The Heat had a lot of contributions from their role players like Payton, Zo, even Walker in the second round. But their superstars were the guys who carried them, especially in the ECF and in the Finals.
The Pistons were a team. They didn't really have any superstars, they won because of their D, but Billups/Rip could get 20 on any given night and Ben won DPOY like 4 times so I guess you could even say he was a super star(defensively). He just didn't get in the way of their team play.
The Spurs played like a team even though they have 1 super star and 2 all stars. Parker and Floppo can get 20 or 30 on any night but Duncan is the guy who makes that team work because he's a super star. Sure he isn't flashy but in his prime he gets you 25/13/3/3 or even now he'll get you 20/10/3/2 with great defense and points in the post when you need it. Of course they still got contributions from their role players like Bowen, Whorry, Mohammed when he was with them, etc.
The Lakers? I don't really think they played like a team. But they had 2 super stars who were almost beaten by a team. And eventually a real team beat them in 2004 and 2003. I guess you could say they were a team because their role players helped them a lot but I don't like to think of them as a team.
Actually thinking about it the one thing those teams all had in common was a go-to-guy or 2. Even Billups wasn't a superstar he was still clutch and could be counted on for big shots.
Yeah, but in all of those examples, there were key role players that came up big when called upon.
You can say that LA was just the sahq and Kobe show, but they wouldn't have made it to the finals in 2002 without robert horry. The Spurs wouldnt have won the title in 2005 without horry either.
Rick Fox's defense on Peja the year before also comes to mind. Jordan had to rely on guys like Steve Kerr and John Paxon to deliver a championship-clinching basket when he was triple-teamed.
one guy can't do everything by himself. Eventually, even the superstars need help.
I'm not saying superstars can't be on a championship-winning team, I'm saying they can't go anywhere by themselves, without the right pieces around them.
You can say that LA was just the sahq and Kobe show, but they wouldn't have made it to the finals in 2002 without robert horry. The Spurs wouldnt have won the title in 2005 without horry either.
Rick Fox's defense on Peja the year before also comes to mind. Jordan had to rely on guys like Steve Kerr and John Paxon to deliver a championship-clinching basket when he was triple-teamed.
one guy can't do everything by himself. Eventually, even the superstars need help.
I'm not saying superstars can't be on a championship-winning team, I'm saying they can't go anywhere by themselves, without the right pieces around them.
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So wouldn't you agree with me that it's some of both?
The main reason we want the Kings in the lottery though is because this draft has a ton of good big man in it and our frontcourt is maybe the worst in the league. We have no shotblocking at all. Never will be a contender without it either.
The main reason we want the Kings in the lottery though is because this draft has a ton of good big man in it and our frontcourt is maybe the worst in the league. We have no shotblocking at all. Never will be a contender without it either.
It's the worst defensive frontcourt in the league. Brad Miller and Shareef are hardly terrible offensive players and plenty of teams would love to have them.
The kings need a shot blocker in the worst way, but there are other ways to get one aside from the lottery.
The franchise has to decide what kind of a team it wants to put together. That's the most important thing, by far. Defense, passing, shooting, size, pick one. There has to be a core theme to build on. Once you have that, stockpiling talent isn't as important, because you can pick up lesser players that fit your system.
The Kings look (at least to me) like a team that isn't sure how it wants to dominate a game. Bibby and Martin want to shoot, Ron and corliss want to bruise, Miller and Shareef want to play finesse...
It just seems like Sacramento has some good players, but their skills don't complement each other.
The kings need a shot blocker in the worst way, but there are other ways to get one aside from the lottery.
The franchise has to decide what kind of a team it wants to put together. That's the most important thing, by far. Defense, passing, shooting, size, pick one. There has to be a core theme to build on. Once you have that, stockpiling talent isn't as important, because you can pick up lesser players that fit your system.
The Kings look (at least to me) like a team that isn't sure how it wants to dominate a game. Bibby and Martin want to shoot, Ron and corliss want to bruise, Miller and Shareef want to play finesse...
It just seems like Sacramento has some good players, but their skills don't complement each other.
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