Kings @ Jazz

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I kinda doubt that. He inherited an awful team that was in shambles, has shown some improvement, and this year has lost his two best players from last year (Artest and Martin). A fall in record is to be expected, and in fact beneficial. This years draft could really make or break this team, with a potentially top-5 pick and a second first rounder, potentially more via trade. Theus gets at least one more year to show what he can do once the youngsters come into their own as the bona fide Kings starters. If I'm not mistaken, Hawes Thompson and Martin have yet to start a game together. This year is a throwaway in terms of record, and the front office knows it.

Do they? Also when Matin gets back from the looks of things at the end of the year they will still not have started a game together.
 
This season might be a throwaway as far as record is concerned but this season holds importance in terms of developing young talent. Just because we are rebuilding doesn't mean we should accept any failures in the coach staff towards those efforts.
 
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Are the young guys even learning anything?

I see Hawes (lunging out at shooters, not playing defense with his feet), Thompson (bulldozing on offense), Brown (late clock turnovers) making the SAME mistakes over and over again.

I wonder if the old guys are learning anything? How many times do I have to see Beno "helping" on defense near the paint (with two other King defenders there already) while his man is waiting patiently for the ball to come to him for a WIDE OPEN three pointer? This is getting old, very, very, very old. And what makes it worse is after the mistake when Beno points at whomever or whatever like he's not the one to blame. That is ridiculous.
 
This season might be a throwaway as far as record is concerned but this season holds importance in terms developing young talent. Just because we are rebuilding doesn't mean we should accept any failures in the coach staff towards those efforts.

Exactly!
 
PLAY THE FREAKING KIDS!!! And play them in a combination that at least makes a modicum of sense. I could have come up with better substitutions patterns than what I witnessed tonight. If we're gonna embrace this whole philosophy of rebuilding, we can't keep tiptoeing around the edges. Don't even use the word "try." COMMIT to the plan...or get ready to be in the unemployment line.

I totally agree. A couple of minutes for this guy, a couple for that guy. In - out - in - out with no rationale that I could figure. No flow whatsoever. Why Thompson doesn't start is beyond imagination. It's the continual half A$$ED approach to the rebuild. After the last game that they lost with four vets on the floor I figured they'd finally want to go with the young guys, but that wasn't to be.
 
No, actually a lot of people didn't know... or if they thought they did, they had no idea how truly painful rebuilding can be under the best of conditions. And what we're seeing is FAR from the best of conditions. A commitment to playing the kids and helping them grow and develop into their potential is what rebuiilding is all about. What we're seeing is more like a SNL or MadTV skit, but without the laugh track.
 
Its one thing to get blown off the court, which I don't mind if our young guys learn something from it. Its another to get blown off the court because our vets are outmatched and the young guys are getting spot minutes. If reggie would just let the future of the team (spencer, jt, donte, and b. brown) take there lumps, no matter how tough it might be to watch, we will be much better off within a year. Brad and Moore won't cut it today, tomorrow, next month, or next year. There is noooooooooo reason to get blown out of the gym if the young guys aren't getting their minutes.
 
Well, I didn't get a chance to watch the game but I did observe a few things from the box score:

1. Spence and JT combined for 34 points in 43 minutes!! WOW.

2. Cisco is back. :D

3. John Salmons now has exactly 1 assist in his last 80 minutes of play. :eek: (And yes I am his harshest critic.)

4. Utah shot almost 59% from 3 point range.. (What else is new?)

5. Utah shot 22 more free throws than us...

6. We were outscored 44-17 in the 3rd quarter???!!! What happened???

7. Donte Greene started and by the box, seemed to do a little bit of everything (6 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl) :D but didn't score and had 5 fouls :(

That is all...

What the heck happened in the 3rd quarter???
 
Well, I didn't get a chance to watch the game but I did observe a few things from the box score:

1. Spence and JT combined for 34 points in 43 minutes!! WOW.

2. Cisco is back. :D

3. John Salmons now has exactly 1 assist in his last 80 minutes of play. (And yes I am his harshest critic.)

4. Utah shot almost 59% from 3 point range.. (What else is new?)

5. Utah shot 22 more free throws than us...

6. We were outscored 44-17 in the 3rd quarter???!!! What happened???

7. Donte Greene started and by the box, seemed to do a little bit of everything (6 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl) but didn't score and had 5 fouls

That is all...

What the heck happened in the 3rd quarter???

Just a couple of comments:

2. I agree with :D.

3. No, I am his harshest critic. Ask anyone who knows me. :p

4. Yeah, our opponents 3 pt shooting % has gotten really old.

8. Cisco had 2 blocked shots in only 12 1/2 min of play. :eek:
 
Wow. Two kings teams. First half then second half. The coach speaks and directs at half-time. But the rotation is a mystery if Kings are rebuilding. Are they rebuilding with Jello Hands Mikki? I don't think so.

The only way for Hawes and JT to learn how to defend with their feet and stop reaching so much is to get playing time and bench coaching. Put JT in there and if he gets 3 fouls in the 1st Q so be it. Sub late in first Q then put him back in 3-5 min into the 2nd Q. If he has 5 fouls at half time, so be it.

Show him game tape at half time and have some one in practice show him how to move to defend. Besides as a rookie he won't get marginal calls anyway. But hustling with his feet and staying in front of his man will get rewarded. So if he fouls out in the 3rd Q is he learning? Are the coaches coaching? We know he has the tools, abilities and moves but now needs coaching help.

Beno does throw a bit too many wild passes (2-3 a game) that turn into TOs. Work with him not to get into those situations. 1 or 2 max we can live with. He is learning but it takes time especially rebuilding.

John "Thumper" Salmons scores a lot but eats up a lot of clock doing so and makes it harder than necessary on the "kids" to keep moving when John has the ball. Again coaching. Why not install the 3 bounce rule? IF you dribble the ball 3 times you have to pass it. Not do that twice and you get replaced with someone who will. If the player or players are not moving to open up the offense, replace them with someone who will. Even if its Douby or Williams.

I sense a theme here in my own thread. Smell the same thing in quite a number of others now too.

What good is a big time trade if the coaching is not there?

Do you ever watch the PG play? Whether it's Beno or Brown, they bring the ball over the center court line, stop and dribble the ball, and wait until one of the bigs comes all the way out to the 3 pt line, and they dribble toward the paint before the screen is set. There's usually only 10-12 sec left on the 24 sec clock. Half the time the entire offense is standing around. At least Salmons can gererate some offense off his dribble, certainly no one else can.

And look who he's playing with. Would you rather he pass the ball to Mikki, he of the bad hands and no offense. How about BJax the ultimater chucker, the worst 3pt shooter in basketball. Maybe he should give the ball back to Beno so he can try and dribble through another double team or make another bad pass into a big double covered in the paint.

If dribbling the ball for 5 sec help set up his offense, I'll live with it because without Salmons this team couldn't score 60 pts a game.
 
Theres that nostalgia thread going on about old Kings moments ranging from the awesome to the horrific. Someone posted two vids of the Lakers 40-4 demolishment of a first quarter against the Kings in '87.

Watching the 3rd quarter tonight reminded me a lot of that...
 
A few more things:

Theus said a while back that for someone to replace Moore in the starting lineup, he will have to performance "above and beyond" (or something like that). So, my advice to Thompson - next time you throw down a monster dunk, tear off your uniform to reveal a superman outfit. Then scream something like "up, up and awaaayyy!" (you can ad-lib, but don't forget the red cape - very important).

Jerry Sloan > 20+ coaches we have. He looks like he actually knows what he's doing.

I REALLY didn't like it when the Jazz starting taunting us (remember that circus backboard slam dunk - and the subsequent laughter from the Jazz players? Grrr.). I hope there will be payback time in the future.

I'm happy Cisco's back. He plays with heart and fire.

Ok, I feel better now. :)
 
A few more things:

Theus said a while back that for someone to replace Moore in the starting lineup, he will have to performance "above and beyond" (or something like that). So, my advice to Thompson - next time you throw down a monster dunk, tear off your uniform to reveal a superman outfit. Then scream something like "up, up and awaaayyy!" (you can ad-lib, but don't forget the red cape - very important).

Jerry Sloan > 20+ coaches we have. He looks like he actually knows what he's doing.

I REALLY didn't like it when the Jazz starting taunting us (remember that circus backboard slam dunk - and the subsequent laughter from the Jazz players? Grrr.). I hope there will be payback time in the future.

I'm happy Cisco's back. He plays with heart and fire.

Ok, I feel better now. :)

there will be pay back... when we pry boozer from their hands lol

lets see how the remaining games of the november and december months pan out its not fair to pass judgment with a injury plagued line up
 
high % shot hmmm what is that

Jump shots r great there are some pretty good shooters on the team, but there comes a time when u gotta take highier % shots( spencer, or thompson in the post) get in the paint be aggressive draw a foul something, not just jumper after jumper. Obviously beno could not take williams out of his rythm(tough for anyone) but make a switch on d hes throwing rolls of quarters for crying out loud!!!!!! We go through scoring droughts, and i ask my self to questions, whos gonna get to the line, and why is mikki moore on the floor when we r down big we need points...........

i can honestly say this is the 1st kings game i didnt watch in full in years, normally ill c if douby or another young player can do sumn, but the utah game was unwatchable for a kings fan.
 
Guys, is this not the slowly but surely way of developing the young kids?

The mentality that some of us have embraced before?

Now, what happened?

Why suddenly almost everyone ( including those who laughed at me for calling for the fast tracking of developing the kids, because we don't have a bright future with our veterans anyways ) is against that traditional way of development? :o

What happened to patience?
 
its okay to lose but some people do not like losing THAT WAY.....

for a boxer its okay to lose in a close fight.. hey you still get paid.. but when your pumelled to the point your wife calls the cops when you come home thinking your a stranger is something anybody wont take in lightly

simply put
were losing not because we play the youngs
we are playing the vets
 
I kinda doubt that. He inherited an awful team that was in shambles, has shown some improvement, and this year has lost his two best players from last year (Artest and Martin). A fall in record is to be expected, and in fact beneficial. This years draft could really make or break this team, with a potentially top-5 pick and a second first rounder, potentially more via trade. Theus gets at least one more year to show what he can do once the youngsters come into their own as the bona fide Kings starters. If I'm not mistaken, Hawes Thompson and Martin have yet to start a game together. This year is a throwaway in terms of record, and the front office knows it.


The Maloofs won't tolerate it. They may not tolerate it if we do "well" and skate on in there with a 12-20 record (requiring us to play unlikely .500 ball). But 8-24? And with an empty arena and season ticket renewals up in a couple of months? And after they were once again destroying their franchise by talking playoffs (one of the most idiotic fallacies in all sports -- that you should lie to fans so that they will be disappointed in you year after year)?

That's classic axe falling time, and scapegoating time, and Reggie did everything possible to alienate everybody above him last year so he has no good will to fall back on. The Maloofs already fired a shot across his bow. If we collapse, the next one will be a direct hit.
 
Theres that nostalgia thread going on about old Kings moments ranging from the awesome to the horrific. Someone posted two vids of the Lakers 40-4 demolishment of a first quarter against the Kings in '87.

Watching the 3rd quarter tonight reminded me a lot of that...

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing.

For anyone not around for that previous game (and didn't watch the posted videos), just picture something similar to last night's 3rd Q but with no shots made at all and only 4 FT. There you go.
 
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