Kings Inquire About Sessions

#31
Some of you people are NUTS! Martin????? Give me a break. Sessions is a nice young prospect that we could potentially land on the cheap(MLE - subMLE), but PLEASE, you'd don't trade away the MOST efficient scoring guard in the league for this guy. That's AWFUL.

What the Bucks are looking for is CAP RELIEF. That, we have.

In a sign and trade I can see something like this:

Kings deal: Beno Udih
Bucks deal Bell or Gadz or Ridnour with a signed Session at roughly 5 years 25 million-30 million.

Bucks save some dough over the next season or more, and get a Sessions replacement in Beno who's a savvy vet an ideal back-up PG to a rookie salaried starter(to play behind Jennings - who they're now committed to).

Kings add a PG weapon to complete their main 3 man back-court of Sessions/Evans/Martin(I also think Martin can see 5-10 minutes a game at the 3 spot) to form a solid young backcourt and gain a guiding hand at the 1 in Sessions. The cost is likely taking on Gadz(who could be 6 fouls behind Hawes and fill that need).

Gadz/Session for Beno. I think it makes sense for both sides.
Not much of a deal for the Bucks. Take on 4 yrs of Beno vs 2 yrs of Gadz to save $1M next yr. The Bucks aren't over the lux tax and are going to let Sessions walk anyways so there is no monetary savings in this deal. They receive not talent or picks but have to take on 2 more yrs from Beno's contract.
 
#32
How about this!

Milwaukee wants to save $$ and go a different direction:

They trade Michael Redd and Ramone Sessions

for
Kevin Martin, Nocioni, and Beno


OR

for Kevin Martin, Kenny Thomas, and JT or Hawes or Sergio + Donte.
 
#33
Garcia is a BYC player. The bucks would have to be under the cap to trade for him.
Actually, the Bucks have to send out basically twice as much as Garcia makes, for it to work. Since we're 5+ million under the cap, we have some wiggle room there to make a deal happen with Garcia and his BYC status. With that said, I DO NOT want to move Garcia in this instance. Beno/Nocioni sure. Cap space, FINE. But I think Garcia's role will flourish under Westphal who knows how to use his talent.
 
#34
I'm Not Saying Kevin Needs To Be Traded. All I'm Saying If The Kings Can Get Sessions, Kevin Should Be The Expendable Player Because Of His High Value, And His Flawed Offensive Mindset (Doesnt Care About Defense) He Has. He Can and Only If He Can Net Us A More Promising Future Should Be Traded.
Attach A Bad Contract or Two With The Trade And In Essence You Can Speed Up The Rebuilding Phase... Addressing Cap Space, And Getting a Superstar/Promising Player(s) That Can Effect The Game With More Than Just Scoring.
In The NBA Both Teams Score, Rebound, Get Assists, And Play Defense.
So The Game Shouldnt Be Looked Just For Scoring

Lets Say You Can Get Sessions
And Somehow With A Martin+Pick+Fillers Trade Get Lets Say And This Is Just An Example D.Granger From The Pacers (Someone That Can Rebound, Score, and Defend) You Guys Wouldn't Pull The Trigger On That Trade?
Most of us would... problem is we aren't talking about getting Granger for Martin... were talking about getting Sessions for Martin which is ludicrous. . I don't think the Pacers would be in any hurry to ditch Granger either for Martin either.
 
M

Mohizzle44

Guest
#35
Pass. I'd rather see how Evans does at the point and then draft John Wall. Then we can trade martin for someone that's actually good. My proposal on a Martin trade is Lou Deng from the Bulls. They have really similar contracts!
 
#36
How about this!

Milwaukee wants to save $$ and go a different direction:

They trade Michael Redd and Ramone Sessions

for
Kevin Martin, Nocioni, and Beno


OR

for Kevin Martin, Kenny Thomas, and JT or Hawes or Sergio + Donte.
The first one is alright... definitely not the second one though. Getting rid of Kevin and Thompson or Hawes is a big no no.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#37
How about this!

Milwaukee wants to save $$ and go a different direction:

They trade Michael Redd and Ramone Sessions

for
Kevin Martin, Nocioni, and Beno

Wait, the Bucks are trying to save money so they send out $35M in guaranteed money (over two years) to get back over $88M guaranteed (over four years)? Seriously?

I mean, trading a chronically-injured Redd and a potenially unsignable Sessions for Martin and Nocioni is probably a step forward, even if you have to eat Beno's contract to do it. But it is in no way a money-saving move.
 
#38
I really dont see us actively seeking to sign Sessions at this point...I agree with the notion that we DID call them, and we DID ask them and tell them about what we were able to offer in a s+t deal, and both sides probably mutually agreed it wasnt right. But no one knows I guess.
 
#39
How about this!

Milwaukee wants to save $$ and go a different direction:

They trade Michael Redd and Ramone Sessions

for
Kevin Martin, Nocioni, and Beno


OR

for Kevin Martin, Kenny Thomas, and JT or Hawes or Sergio + Donte.
I Think Kevin Shouldn't Be In The Equation For This Trade, But One After This How About Future First Round Pick Top Ten Protected, Donte, Sergio And Thomas?
 
#40
I wrote this about Sessions eons ago:

Sessions just has some real defined strengths that I like for a point guard--his ability to pass which of course everyone knows, but also his ability to get to the free throw line (he's fifth among PGs in free throw attempts/field goal attempt). Those two attributes are usually mutually exclusive among point guards, and only Chauncey Billups and Kyle Lowry (explains why I like Lowry) had higher assists/possession and free throw attempts/field goal attempt; that alone makes him very very intriguing. And he's very young (22 years old), has pretty big primacy (as seen by his high usage rate), so needless to say if we get him he would be our point guard of the future, being able to step right up and produce.

I sense that he's becoming more and more scoring oriented (his assists/field goal attempt dropped from 1.09 in his breakout rookie season to 0.58 just last year) as his passing has become more ordinary, but defenses are focusing more on him and he rightfully is diversifying his game as a scorer. That's also consistent with what he did in college. While he can score, his scoring efficiency is quite average overall--he doesn't wow in points/possession, will pretty much never take a three pointer and his mid-range game is not really dependable at all, thus accounting for his average TS%--which is why his PER did not budge much because he traded off some of his great passing for less efficient scoring.

But the reason Sessions can still make an impact offensively is because his game is predicated around attacking the basket, and his ballhandling skill and craftiness allow him to be effective--think early Andre Miller with this guy in that he's not really that athletic, but he just wills himself to success around here. Another reason, like Lowry, his jumpshot has potential is because of what he shoots from the free throw line--80% on a high rate of attempts, and considering that shooting is the easiest thing to learn in the league, that really gives him a good chance to improve the shot and extend the range. But even on the off chance he doesn't develop the range, he can still slash effectively, and the lack of jumpshot will really only affect him once he reaches his 30s.

So he's a ready-made player with unique strengths for a point guard and fairly correctable flaws that don't appear to hinder his game much at all. He's really productive in athletic markers (really good rebounder in addition to the ability to draw fouls) despite not being that athletic, sticks to his strengths in general and passes the ball really well. Think a career trajectory of Andre Miller--besides their similarities in slashing and lack of range/jumper, Miller also traded off his passing for more scoring as his career progressed, and I suspect Sessions might do the same. He's a pure point guard, but he'll start to look to score more.
I was also a fair advocate of bringing Sessions over the offseason, but I really had concerns about Milwaukee trying to match him. They did draft Brandon Jennings, but he's not a guy I would want to throw into the fire right away; they also saved quite a bit by sacking Jefferson and Villanueva. But if past history has any say in this, Milwaukee REALLY hates its productive PGs--they've lost Sam Cassell, TJ Ford, Mo Williams, and now potentially Ramon Sessions; their PG turnover is insane. It's hard to get a read on them, really, because they're saving money and have said that they want to keep Sessions earlier, but then they draft a PG and now don't want to seem to pay much (relatively speaking) to Sessions. Ultimately I think Sessions will leave.

Actually I think we have a better chance of getting him than most might think--we can definitely spend if we so desire, actually can use a pure PG (unlike LAC with BDiddy and Telfair), and don't have any great 2010 LeBron aspirations (unlike NYK). I don't see a sign-and-trade as feasible from a rough scan of our contracts (for one KT makes too much and I can't see any trade getting real complex on Mil's side beyond Sessions), but I can see Sessions signing with us due to opportunity/money (despite us joining the race late) because he's getting frustrated with not getting a contract yet from LAC or NYK. I think he might go to the Clippers (they really seem aggressive) though. But his passing game/slashing game/improving scoring game in combination with youth would make him a bargain for anything around midlevel, and he can be a definite asset for us and relieve Tyreke of greater playmaking duties that he might not be accustomed to handling (yet).
 
#41
I Think Kevin Shouldn't Be In The Equation For This Trade, But One After This How About Future First Round Pick Top Ten Protected, Donte, Sergio And Thomas?
Bro. Or sis. Whatever. I can't read your posts in one pass. Every single word has the same inflection sound in my brain when you capitalize them all. Gives me a headache.

And you're right, you can probably get him for less than Martin.
 
#42
Sure Ramon Sessions is a quality player, but i wouldnt want to make any kind of a move to acquire ANOTHER point guard. I wouldnt even think about point guards until I see how Evans plays.
 
#43
Sessions will be a great pickup if somehow we can also snag with him either Elson/Gadzuric who will fill-up our backup C nicely. But it wont be great unless we can also rid Udrih and probably Sessions only signing like 5M per year and not like an increasing salary like Udrihs
 
#44
Bro. Or sis. Whatever. I can't read your posts in one pass. Every single word has the same inflection sound in my brain when you capitalize them all. Gives me a headache.

And you're right, you can probably get him for less than Martin.
I second the motion.

I don't know what's up with the capital letters of NOMOR3. It's kinda bit stylish, but also very hard to read. So, I just skipped reading every post he made and spared me from having more headache.:p

Back to the topic. If there is a way of bringing in Sessions without giving up one of our best players ( Evans, Martin, Thompson, and Hawes ), then I'll go for that route. It would be best if we can get rid of Beno's contract ( or Sergio ) in the process. But if getting Sessions means giving up one of our best players, then I would suggest that we give up the "weakest link in defense" ( Martin ) amongst the four and not/never Evans, Thompson, or Hawes.

Martin just sucks terribly in defense, that it seems to negate whatever he contributes in offense. That is not the kind of player you want in the future if your eyes is on the Championship trophy. Yes, he scores that much, but he also gives up that much at the other end. And what is terrible is that - the other young players seem to be copying his terrible example of effort in defense. Just not a good veteran starter-role-model for the other young pieces of this team to learn from.
 
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#45
I want to see what Tyreke can do at the 1 before I give up on that notion...if Petrie thinks he'd be a good PG and would create mismatches, then I want to see, if he's not producing in a good way after about 10-20 games, then we'll see. I wouldnt normally be in favor of the 'SG-PG' experiment, but he's 6-5 and athletic, and would create mismatches against alot of opposing PG's if so.
Mismatches went both ways if you watched Memphis ball this year. Evans wasn't his strongest guarding the 6'1 speedster. But they had players to match up. Right now the Kings don't... Sessions would be that guy, and Evans could still play a distributing role like Roy or Wade. It would make our back court a hell of a lot tougher...

But then again Martin is my favorite player so unless somehow we get more then I say no.
 
#46
Force of habit with the caps I'll try to make my post less distracting ..... funny thing is I had to go back and take the caps out while saying I'm Goin to stop.

Some of you are saying, instead of stocking piling on a promising pg that can be had for almost nothing you rather wait on what Evans brings to the table. I just don't see the logic in being so patient. Finally after Yrs of slowly sinking, we finally can get another promising prospect that shows that he can preform with room to grow & without damaging the core we have now (Martin, Evans, Hawes, JT) . If we can attain Sessions we can then be bigger players in trade discussions. Because Martin Becomes A Viable Trading Option
 
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#47
Force of habit with the caps I'll try to make my post less distracting ..... funny thing is I had to go back and take the caps out while saying I'm Goin to stop.

Some of you are saying, instead of stocking piling on a promising pg that can be had for almost nothing you rather wait on what Evans brings to the table. I just don't see the logic in being so patient. Finally after Yrs of slowly sinking, we finally can get another promising prospect that shows that he can preform with room to grow & without damaging the core we have now (Martin, Evans, Hawes, JT) . If we can attain Sessions we can then be bigger players in trade discussions. Because Martin Becomes A Viable Trading Option
I agree, I don't see the point of letting a quality PG go to waste if we can obtain him for a decent rate pretty easily right now. Doesn't even have to lead to a KMart trade but it will give us more options and more talent on our team overall...
 
#48
Sign him already. I bet he'd sign a 3 year deal(so he can get a bigger pay day later) for about 4-6 million a year.

3 years for 12-18 million dollar range. SIGN ME UP. Look to move Beno to a team like the bobcats who need guard depth and have 4 centers on their roster. TWO of which make near identical money to Beno(Diop - exactly identical and Mohammed - same $$$ with 2 less year, which Nazr is my preference).
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#49
I wrote this about Sessions eons ago:



I was also a fair advocate of bringing Sessions over the offseason, but I really had concerns about Milwaukee trying to match him. They did draft Brandon Jennings, but he's not a guy I would want to throw into the fire right away; they also saved quite a bit by sacking Jefferson and Villanueva. But if past history has any say in this, Milwaukee REALLY hates its productive PGs--they've lost Sam Cassell, TJ Ford, Mo Williams, and now potentially Ramon Sessions; their PG turnover is insane. It's hard to get a read on them, really, because they're saving money and have said that they want to keep Sessions earlier, but then they draft a PG and now don't want to seem to pay much (relatively speaking) to Sessions. Ultimately I think Sessions will leave.

Actually I think we have a better chance of getting him than most might think--we can definitely spend if we so desire, actually can use a pure PG (unlike LAC with BDiddy and Telfair), and don't have any great 2010 LeBron aspirations (unlike NYK). I don't see a sign-and-trade as feasible from a rough scan of our contracts (for one KT makes too much and I can't see any trade getting real complex on Mil's side beyond Sessions), but I can see Sessions signing with us due to opportunity/money (despite us joining the race late) because he's getting frustrated with not getting a contract yet from LAC or NYK. I think he might go to the Clippers (they really seem aggressive) though. But his passing game/slashing game/improving scoring game in combination with youth would make him a bargain for anything around midlevel, and he can be a definite asset for us and relieve Tyreke of greater playmaking duties that he might not be accustomed to handling (yet).
I think Sessions and Evans would be a good fit together. But aside from that, Sessions is a talented player thats just starting to come into his own. In the last half of last season he was as good as any point guard in the league. He's a tough kid. A scrapper who's only going to get better.

So if you have a chance to pick up a player like him at a time like this, then you go for it. You figure out the rest later. This team is a work in progress, and the more good parts you can give Westphal to work with the better. If some players slide to the bottom, then so be it. The way I look at it, is that, if the guy you had projected as your starter, gets beat out by a new addition, thats a good thing. That means you now have someone starting thats better. It also means you have more depth on the bench. Unhappy though they may be.

I don't know how much truth there is to any of this. But I agree that if were not going to be active in the freeagent market to any extent next year, why no strike while the iron is hot. What ever the hell that means?:confused:
 
#50
I'm sorry, I'm just not ready to toss Martin to the side for unproven talent and any old trade. True, Sessions has potential...but so did Derek Smith when we traded alot of our heart and soul in Mike Woodson away for him. Ramon Sessions would be a nice addition, but not at the expense of a proven 24pt scorer in Kevin Martin.
 
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#51
I'm sorry, I'm just not ready to toss Martin to the side for unproven talent and any old trade. True, Sessions has potential...but so did Derek Smith when we traded alot of our heart and soul in Mike Woodson away for him. Ramon Sessions would be a nice addition, but not at the expense of a proven 24pt scorer in Kevin Martin.
No one is saying trade Martin for scraps, the perceived ability/potential for both Sessions and Evans is that of affecting the game on both ends of the floor. Let's face it Kevin's only an offensive player, that affects the game with only his scoring, and if he comes into the upcoming season with a mindset that slacking off on defense and scoring is all he has to do, then as a player his overall growth wouldn't increase.

IF Sessions is acquired Evans can come off the bench until the trade deadline or next year. And during that time we can see if Evans and Sessions work well together or not. If They do the Kings just got a starting backcourt of players that can handle the rock, create shots, and make their teammates better. If not we can still trade Sessions and someone else other than Martin.

To me is about stock piling on talented players and seeing who works best with who, and who affects the game on more than one level.

Kevin is a good player no one is denying that, however as i stated the game is more than just scoring... Hopefully Kevin can come into the new season with defense as his new commitment.
 
#52
why no strike while the iron is hot. What ever the hell that means?:confused:
Striking while the iron is hot is a term used in blacksmithing. To strike at a rod of iron after it has been inserted into a stove filled with white hot coals deposits thin bands of carbon onto the iron, thus creating steel. Not to mention: Striking at something while it is hot enables you to form it into whatever your heart desires.

Class dismissed.;)
 
#53
Striking while the iron is hot is a term used in blacksmithing. To strike at a rod of iron after it has been inserted into a stove filled with white hot coals deposits thin bands of carbon onto the iron, thus creating steel. Not to mention: Striking at something while it is hot enables you to form it into whatever your heart desires.

Class dismissed.;)
lmao :eek:
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#54
I'm sorry, I'm just not ready to toss Martin to the side for unproven talent and any old trade. True, Sessions has potential...but so did Derek Smith when we traded alot of our heart and soul in Mike Woodson away for him. Ramon Sessions would be a nice addition, but not at the expense of a proven 24pt scorer in Kevin Martin.
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm certainly not endorsing the idea of trading Martin. I would just make Sessions a three year offer of whatever amount of our cap space we think he's worth. The Bucks have threatened to match any offer. Lets call their bluff and see. If they do, then see if they would do a sign and trade. But not for Martin. I want to add to the talent pool, not add and then subtract.
 
#55
I still dont understand why youd pick a player out of the draft with the #4 pick that you expect to play point guard and then go use what cap space you have to acquire another point guard. I say save the money, get rid of some contracts by either letting them expire or trading them away to clear up a nice amount of cap space so you can give someone all star money. On one hand you have "sign a point guard after you just used the #4 pick to get one" and on the other hand you have " sign one big name player to a large contract or a couple of nice players in the future and see how your draft pick fairs".
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#56
I dont think Reke is going to be a PG long term. I think the Kings FO is just saying he's going to be a PG to kind of sell the pick, as we are hurting at that position and they passed on Rubio. Thats why you get Sessions, who has already had some HUUUUUGE games in his young career.

Personally I think Sessions/Reke is better then Reke/Martin. And yes, I would give up Martin for Sessions (although they'd have to throw in an expiring and/or draft picks as well).
 
#57
I still dont understand why youd pick a player out of the draft with the #4 pick that you expect to play point guard and then go use what cap space you have to acquire another point guard. I say save the money, get rid of some contracts by either letting them expire or trading them away to clear up a nice amount of cap space so you can give someone all star money. On one hand you have "sign a point guard after you just used the #4 pick to get one" and on the other hand you have " sign one big name player to a large contract or a couple of nice players in the future and see how your draft pick fairs".
Simple. Remember how Douby was going to play PG for us? Sometimes these things work out, sometimes they don't. Some posters here would rather play it safe.

As for saving up for a major star, it's hardly a sure thing that they'd want to come to Sac over someplace like Miami, LA or NYC. Some of us are feeling cautious in that regard, too, and wondering why we should wait, save up cap space, and put all of our hopes on a deal that might never happen. If we spend a little money prudently, we may be able to make the team quite a bit more attractive. Then, if we want to pursue a star, they might actually be interested. And, if they're not, we still have a better team.

I've read enough of your posts that I don't expect you to agree with any of the above at this stage, but surely you can understand it without agreeing. It's not that difficult to grasp.
 
#58
We would have the toughest back court with Evans and Sessions, but where would our 3pt shooting come from? Just realized they both suck.. Clog the middle and you got our back court solved :)
 
#59
We would have the toughest back court with Evans and Sessions, but where would our 3pt shooting come from? Just realized they both suck.. Clog the middle and you got our back court solved :)
Lets acquire JJ Reddick and play him as back up center
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#60
We would have the toughest back court with Evans and Sessions, but where would our 3pt shooting come from? Just realized they both suck.. Clog the middle and you got our back court solved :)
Well Evans and Sessions are both young, and shooting is one thing that can be improved. At least enough to keep the other team honest. As one thats never been a big fan of the three point shot rule, I could care less. Basketball managed just fine for an awful long time without the three point shot. And the shooting percentages were higher across the league. Kudo's to those players that know their limitations and don't shoot a three every time they get the ball. Besides, Spence will keep them honest. :eek: