Kangztillidie
Bench
Waiting on Bricklayer to humbly come back..
[Grades] Kings @ Hawks (#9) 11/1/18
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I'm trying to do them when I can. I am just super duper busy. It's currently 4 AM here in Tokyo and I haven't slept for 40 hours trying to get some translation work done on a big project.
Games are on at like 12 PM here and it's easy enough to watch them in the background as I get work done but harder to justify blocking out a chunk of my time to write a long grades post.
The Hammer
All-Star
Hey man didn't mean to bust yer balls and I know how much work they take! I kinda like just having the post game discussion and maybe people could toss in a grade for any player they want.
Bit under the radar for Bjelica, but that was a 100% A game he played. Seriously impressed with his defense and his hands.
The Hammer
All-Star
Yeah, that's not happening. haha.
John Galt
Starter
Wonder if he was really saying it tongue in cheek - or everybody is just so much in the habit of ragging on Vlade that they didn't think it through. Fox Bagley Giles = superteam... just young. really young.really super. Those are potentially three giant careers that we're on the ground floor for.
kingsfan101
Starter
If we are nit picking, the bench play is a matter of concern. Granted that things there shall likely improve with the return of Bogi, but we need some more guys to step up and deliver on a more consistent basis. In particular, we need stronger play from Mason/Yogi (else, Fox will wear out by the end of the month), and to some extent, JJ. The latter's role becomes less important once Bogi is back (and if Shump and Troy continue to play well, even more so), so less concerned there.
As for Skal and Giles, they should still be part of our future, but right now, I don't see them getting minutes except in blowouts. So, they should spend some time in Stockton.
Larry89
Disgruntled Kings Fan
Pizzaguy93
G-League
Who needs to give grades when everyone’s getting an A for effort and we’re winning...yayy
The Hammer
All-Star
Can we start talking about how Vlade is perhaps the best drafter of talent in the NBA? Let's start looking at his pics... WCS was his first I believe...
There are virtually no duds.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I'll say that Vlade did a mini version of "The Process" and manufactured quite a few first round draft picks. They weren't all top 5 picks like Philly, but they were all high talent players. Some high risk/high reward. He threw it against the wall and figured some would stick and some wouldn't. If all that works out sticking is Fox, Bagley and WCS, I'd say he did pretty good. Include Hield and Bogdan in the mix of young talent acquisition. Vlade built his core quite quickly and impressively.
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Grades by committee is your best bet. I'd be happy to help for any games that I'm able to watch (which is most of them) and I'm sure we can recruit a few others.
John Galt
Starter
Papagiannis wants a word
The Hammer
All-Star
The word virtually wants a word
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Let's make 46 the Kings mantra and let's go get 46 WINS this season and a PLAYOFF birth!!!
Consider me on board!
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I watched part of the ESPN's Pardon the Interruption today and Bill Plaschke stated that the KINGS are 14th on offense and 15th in defense in a passive aggressive way of saying the team will inevitably come back to earth.
Can anyone tell me what gorilla math analytics he might be using to get those numbers? The defense I can see, but what major stat are the KINGS middle of the road on offensively? Last I checked they were 4th in scoring and top 2 in pace. So they can't be middle of the road in total offensive production.
I'm thinking these guys are either making up their own stats or not keeping them up-to-date.
Can anyone tell me what gorilla math analytics he might be using to get those numbers? The defense I can see, but what major stat are the KINGS middle of the road on offensively? Last I checked they were 4th in scoring and top 2 in pace. So they can't be middle of the road in total offensive production.
I'm thinking these guys are either making up their own stats or not keeping them up-to-date.
6-3>>>any stats
kingsfan101
Starter
I love the way the mood of the board swings. I, who was one of the relative optimist here in a sea of gloom a few weeks back, feel like a party pooper now
This is not to talk disparagingly about you, or any other poster. Just a general observation. However, much as I hate to do it, let me bring a dose of sobriety to the discussion.
To begin with, the hard part begins now. We have played great so far. Most kids have shown growth, they are having fun, playing for each other, the FAs (particularly Beli) have been huge, and most importantly, they are forging an identity. With the return of KK earlier, and Bogi soon, there is still room for improvement. Plus, I expect the backup PG position to produce more and more consistently over time.
With all that, we are not sneaking up on teams anymore. Starting with the Bucks game, our upcoming schedule is brutal. We'll be playing teams that will plan for us, that will frustrate our kids, and will have stars and coaches, that will get away with it. As much as the return of Bogi will help, integrating him will likely take some time, and our own pace might start catching up with us as the season progresses, and the kids get tired. So, let's not just hand out EOY and COY to Vlade/Dave yet.
As for drafting, I think he has been decent. Papa pick was certainly a blot, but it's not as if that class is tearing it up. MR didn't pan out too, but I still think his injury came at the wrong time, and it's just too tough to develop too many kids at the same time.
I think more than Papa/MR, Vlade will be judged on last year's draft (and to some extent on Doncic/Bagley. Both have the makings of a star, but if Doncic has a much better career, it will be brought up). He did pass up on Mitchell, Kuzma, OG, and went with JJ and Giles. If either of them turn out to be good (I still think Giles can be special), it was a good move. Else!!!
Overall, I think he has been a good GM (at least after his initial mistakes). He has not handed out bloated contracts, or signed people to atrocious deals. He has been able to convert draft picks into multiple ones, and get useful/excellent players out of it (hello Bogi). He has waited patiently and got FAs that actually fit the team.
Equally important, he has stuck to a plan. He brought in vets when people thought it was a bad idea. However, we see most kids playing better this year, and Fox in particular, talking how Temple helped him. He (and Dave) had the team playing hard even at the potential cost of draft position, again, a move I think is helping now.
The team is well positioned to jump to the next level. We have our core in place, might see a big jump from Giles next year (or hopefully, even this year), and we have tons of cap space. With improved play, we might even be an attractive FA destination.
And if we get some good development from JJ/Gabriel/Williams, then wow!
I don't have the bandwidth for PTI these days but when I did watch years and years ago Plaschke was far and away the biggest moron to be featured regularly on the show.
Speaking only for myself, I feel like I was just so fatigued by the idea of starting another rebuild that it became impossible for me to look past Cousins as the centerpiece of the team. Cutting him loose was stepping into the abyss and that initial negative reaction extended to Buddy -- who was having a pretty underwhelming rookie campaign before the trade happened -- and all the guys Vlade spent that initial batch of first round picks on. It started to feel like we were wasting our picks if we weren't finding someone who could potentially replace Cousins which is an impossible standard to hold anyone to. Fox and Buddy might end up being a more potent pairing than anything else dreamed up by a Kings front-office throughout all those years of futility. Which just goes to show that chasing "what's worked in the past" is often not the best course of action.
Hindsight being 20-20, it's hard to fault a management group for looking to acquire rotation players who compliment one another in the draft. Nobody has a 100% success rate with the draft anyway. Even 50% is probably better than average. Now that this is clearly Vlade's team from top to bottom and they're winning -- all the credit goes to him. For the players he targeted, for the team culture he and Coach Joerger were able to establish. Even Vivek seems to have been right in his prediction that position-less basketball and fast-paced offense were going to be the new norm -- though he may still be wrong about firing Coach Malone who looks like a Coach of the Year candidate this season. In any case, I'm happy to say my own personal brand of doom and gloom has appeared to be very wrong. So keep on running and gunning guys! Can you imagine the stories we'll see coming out of ESPN if Vlade gets votes for Executive of the Year? Heads may explode!
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought PDA fired him. Vivek hired Coach Malone before he hired the GM -- which is a big no-no but something he hadn't learned yet. It became an issue of the GM not being on board because the coach wasn't 'his guy'. Vivek made the next mistake of choosing the GM over the coach, whom he ended up firing anyway.
parker
Bench
If you look at these ratings, the Kings are 12th in offense efficiency and 17th in defense efficiency. https://www.numberfire.com/nba/teams/power-rankings
Even given those rankings, I don't see how that is the Kings coming back to earth. Those are average numbers and average in the NBA is much better than the Kings have been in a long time.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
every single GM has their duds, even the great ones. Vlade has had Papa, Malachi & Skal so far until Skal proves otherwise, Jackson too doesn't look like a good pick to me but it's still early on that front
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Color me skeptical over how those ranking are figured. But at least you cited something that they might have been looking at. As I said, he wasn't specific as to what they were ranked 14th in. Because if it was scoring, they are much higher than that.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I love the way the mood of the board swings. I, who was one of the relative optimist here in a sea of gloom a few weeks back, feel like a party pooper now
This is not to talk disparagingly about you, or any other poster. Just a general observation. However, much as I hate to do it, let me bring a dose of sobriety to the discussion.
To begin with, the hard part begins now. We have played great so far. Most kids have shown growth, they are having fun, playing for each other, the FAs (particularly Beli) have been huge, and most importantly, they are forging an identity. With the return of KK earlier, and Bogi soon, there is still room for improvement. Plus, I expect the backup PG position to produce more and more consistently over time.
With all that, we are not sneaking up on teams anymore. Starting with the Bucks game, our upcoming schedule is brutal. We'll be playing teams that will plan for us, that will frustrate our kids, and will have stars and coaches, that will get away with it. As much as the return of Bogi will help, integrating him will likely take some time, and our own pace might start catching up with us as the season progresses, and the kids get tired. So, let's not just hand out EOY and COY to Vlade/Dave yet.
As for drafting, I think he has been decent. Papa pick was certainly a blot, but it's not as if that class is tearing it up. MR didn't pan out too, but I still think his injury came at the wrong time, and it's just too tough to develop too many kids at the same time.
I think more than Papa/MR, Vlade will be judged on last year's draft (and to some extent on Doncic/Bagley. Both have the makings of a star, but if Doncic has a much better career, it will be brought up). He did pass up on Mitchell, Kuzma, OG, and went with JJ and Giles. If either of them turn out to be good (I still think Giles can be special), it was a good move. Else!!!
Overall, I think he has been a good GM (at least after his initial mistakes). He has not handed out bloated contracts, or signed people to atrocious deals. He has been able to convert draft picks into multiple ones, and get useful/excellent players out of it (hello Bogi). He has waited patiently and got FAs that actually fit the team.
Equally important, he has stuck to a plan. He brought in vets when people thought it was a bad idea. However, we see most kids playing better this year, and Fox in particular, talking how Temple helped him. He (and Dave) had the team playing hard even at the potential cost of draft position, again, a move I think is helping now.
The team is well positioned to jump to the next level. We have our core in place, might see a big jump from Giles next year (or hopefully, even this year), and we have tons of cap space. With improved play, we might even be an attractive FA destination.
And if we get some good development from JJ/Gabriel/Williams, then wow!
I'll just throw a few counter points to the narrative that we should show caution because our schedule gets tough.
It is true that our upcoming schedule is brutal. But
1. The Kings won't be a pushover and teams can't bring their B game and automatically expect to walk out with a win. Doesn't matter if we sneak up on them or not. Have a bad night and the Kings will beat you.
2. Kings have nothing to apologize for for who've they've played. All the good teams fatten up their record by beating up on the lower level teams.
3. The Kings have showed enough promise in the first few games that I won't be surprised if they leave November a few games below .500. It will mean they have a good chance of winning 40 games this year and that was unthinkable before the season started.
My optimism comes from the fact that teams must adjust to the Kings style. Defensive teams have to score against the Kings to win. If they can, more power to them. But teams will be uncomfortable playing that style. Atlanta was the #1 team in pace and still couldn't keep up with the Kings. And every game or youngsters gain experience and get a little better.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Assuming those stats are correct, then the Kings are a .500 team and will win 41 games this year. I'm down with that.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
But instead Magic Johnson is going after Luke Walton, the coach. That's not a class act, at all.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
And he actually plays defense!
Larry89
Disgruntled Kings Fan
I looked everywhere else at espn, nba.com, basketball reference, and the Kings are basically top 3 in fg% top 10 in offensive effeciency #2 in pace.
Which is interesting, the Kings are top 3 in 3pt%, but are bottom 8 in 3 point attempts. Our 3pt% is only beaten by the Warriors and Indiana, total fg% as well.
Maybe not a class act but pretty predictable.
I've known some Laker fans for years. Without exception, NONE of them are happy with what's going on right now. They would much rather go forward without Lebron than witness the train wreck rapidly approaching on the horizon.
Walton will get fired and nothing will get better. I don't want to sound shallow, but a part of me has to keep from dancing in the streets.
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