Kings having discussions about Marion

well maybe we could send brad to the heat and we could get wally... the heat would then have miller and varaejo at center....
 
Frankly I would rather end up with the Cleveand package (Wally and Varejao) out of the deal. Last thing we need is Marion showing up to steal minutes (he's good enoguh to) and add a few wins we don't need (he may or may not -- been badly exposed since his ego destroyed his career). But Wally is also an ender, and Varejao is young enough to seriously consider as a third big going forward.
 
Frankly I would rather end up with the Cleveand package (Wally and Varejao) out of the deal. Last thing we need is Marion showing up to steal minutes (he's good enoguh to) and add a few wins we don't need (he may or may not -- been badly exposed since his ego destroyed his career). But Wally is also an ender, and Varejao is young enough to seriously consider as a third big going forward.

you really think so? Honestly I need Jason Thompson at near MAX potential is equal to a current Varejao

an energy player who can crash the boards with a decent jumper that can score on put backs.

I don't think JT is ever going to be the 20/10 or even 15/10 type player with a back to the basket game that we will desperately need(especially with Hawes at C)
 
you really think so? Honestly I need Jason Thompson at near MAX potential is equal to a current Varejao

an energy player who can crash the boards with a decent jumper that can score on put backs.

I don't think JT is ever going to be the 20/10 or even 15/10 type player with a back to the basket game that we will desperately need(especially with Hawes at C)

In my opinion, you will eat your words about Jason Thompson at some point.
 
you really think so? Honestly I need Jason Thompson at near MAX potential is equal to a current Varejao

He's basically equivalent to Varejao already, and he has untapped offensive potential that Sideshow Bob does not.
 
Frankly I would rather end up with the Cleveand package (Wally and Varejao) out of the deal. Last thing we need is Marion showing up to steal minutes (he's good enoguh to) and add a few wins we don't need (he may or may not -- been badly exposed since his ego destroyed his career). But Wally is also an ender, and Varejao is young enough to seriously consider as a third big going forward.

The question is, then, would Miami rather have Brad+our filler (KT? Moore? Salmons?) over Wally and Anderson?
 
The question is, then, would Miami rather have Brad+our filler (KT? Moore? Salmons?) over Wally and Anderson?

Miller + Salmons >>>>>>>>>>>> Wally + Anderson. Miller n Salmons would give Miami two Viable starters. A linupe of Miller, Beasley, Salmons, Wade and who ever the got in thier PG by commitee lineup would be decent. Beasley and Marion are basically the same player. However saying that, Im sure theyd rather trade Marion over Beasley regardless of the similarities. :cool:
 
I'm not really sure who Miami would want on TOR?

but between these two trades....

Miller and ?

or

Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak

I'd have to say Miller+whoever is by far the best trade for Miami. Miller is a true center that will spread the floor and set up Beasley/Wade from the high post. Sure hes a defensive mess but hes still a better match up against true centers. Varejao is WAY overrated!

Plus its the EAST! sure the east is better than it used to be but still....
Miller is by far the best option for the Heat.
 
if nothing else Varejao is much more polished and energetic -- his jumper is also notably better.

Varejao has been in the league for 4 years, currently playing in his fifth year. Considering that JT is in his first year, it would be fair to assume that Varejao would, or should be considerably better than Jt. In fact, he's not. He may look better doing what he does, and should, with the experience, but JT is getting better results.

Varejao's lifetime stats are 5.9 ppg and 6.2 rpg. His best rebounding year was last year when he averaged 8.2 rpg. And to add to the equation, he's been injured half of his pro career, including last year when he only played in around 46 or 47 games.

Give JT four years of experience in the league and I'll bet you a meal of your choice that he'll be a remarkably better player than Varejao was at the same four year point. 15 and 10 are not out of the question for JT if he continues to put the work in.
 
15 and 10 are not out of the question for JT if he continues to put the work in.

In fact, just giving him 36 minutes at his current level of production puts him right about there. He also has a lot of the individual tools to be a much better offensive player. He just has to learn to put them together, develop a few supplemental skills, and most of all get comfortable with the speed and physicality of the NBA game.
 
Long time lurker (over a year), first time poster

The trade for Miller I propose is:
Kings Outgoing:
Brad Miller
Beno
Houston 1st

Heat Outgoing:
Marion
Mario Chalmers

Anyone else like this trade? Chalmers is a quick point guard who gets a lot of steals, and can hit the three. With a back court of chalmers/brown we continue to go with the youth movement and trading Miller will open up playing time for Hawes/Thompson.
 
JT is already way better than Varejao. If you look at statistical trends, Varejao already exhausted all of his potential by his third year in the league (when he was 24/25 years old)--and because his game is predicated around generating energy both offensively and defensively and not really developing any sort of skillset, you already know what you're going to get. Another relatively interesting tidbit is that in terms of physical tools for a big man, he's pretty good in the league--but he doesn't rise up above the clouds with his abilities. For someone with pretty good mobility, he doesn't rack up too many steals. For someone who jumps pretty well and has a constant motor, he doesn't get too many blocks.

Instead, five years into the league, he's still a foul maniac, and when you're that age and still essentially the same player as you were in your rookie year, just scaled to minutes accordingly, you can pretty much say that player won't ever improve again. He never had much of an offensive game, nor had the ballhandling abilities and controlled game to really develop any post moves; only once in a blue moon can hit a jumper. Came into the league as a surprise considering where he was drafted and because he was an unknown entity, but time has exposed his sameness and he's become yesterday's news--hence the Cavs want to trade him.

Jason is active and will fight for balls, but already at age 22 he was better than Varejao has ever been; Varejao put up 6.7 ppg and 8.3 rpg in his best year, but Jason already is putting up 9.9 rpg and 6.6 rpg--#'s I will definitely prefer, because showing offensive potential is as key as showing rebounding potential. Jason at times doesn't know how to adjust to the speed of the game yet, but he's only a rookie, and he's already intriguing as a guy who can really rebound, hustle and score both inside and out intermittently. Varejao only did the two first things well, but the offense is the key here in separating a hustling role player to someone who can do much more. By getting minutes this year Jason's only learning more, and at age 22 with his hustle-rebound-offense combination as opposed to Varejao's at age 26 and only hustle-rebound combination, we surely know we've got the better player. And this is coming from a guy who was drawn into real athletic freaks like Anthony Randolph and JaVale McGee on draft day.
 
I'm not really sure who Miami would want on TOR?

but between these two trades....

Miller and ?

or

Anderson Varejao and Wally Szczerbiak

I'd have to say Miller+whoever is by far the best trade for Miami. Miller is a true center that will spread the floor and set up Beasley/Wade from the high post. Sure hes a defensive mess but hes still a better match up against true centers. Varejao is WAY overrated!

Plus its the EAST! sure the east is better than it used to be but still....
Miller is by far the best option for the Heat
.

I understand what you mean, because the West has better post players, but I'd like to point out that statistically, the East right now is the better conference. Not only does the East have 3 of the top 4 teams in the league (record wise), the East only has 3 teams with single digit wins. As for the West...there's 6.
 
JT is already way better than Varejao. If you look at statistical trends, Varejao already exhausted all of his potential by his third year in the league (when he was 24/25 years old)--and because his game is predicated around generating energy both offensively and defensively and not really developing any sort of skillset, you already know what you're going to get. Another relatively interesting tidbit is that in terms of physical tools for a big man, he's pretty good in the league--but he doesn't rise up above the clouds with his abilities. For someone with pretty good mobility, he doesn't rack up too many steals. For someone who jumps pretty well and has a constant motor, he doesn't get too many blocks.

Instead, five years into the league, he's still a foul maniac, and when you're that age and still essentially the same player as you were in your rookie year, just scaled to minutes accordingly, you can pretty much say that player won't ever improve again. He never had much of an offensive game, nor had the ballhandling abilities and controlled game to really develop any post moves; only once in a blue moon can hit a jumper. Came into the league as a surprise considering where he was drafted and because he was an unknown entity, but time has exposed his sameness and he's become yesterday's news--hence the Cavs want to trade him.

Jason is active and will fight for balls, but already at age 22 he was better than Varejao has ever been; Varejao put up 6.7 ppg and 8.3 rpg in his best year, but Jason already is putting up 9.9 rpg and 6.6 rpg--#'s I will definitely prefer, because showing offensive potential is as key as showing rebounding potential. Jason at times doesn't know how to adjust to the speed of the game yet, but he's only a rookie, and he's already intriguing as a guy who can really rebound, hustle and score both inside and out intermittently. Varejao only did the two first things well, but the offense is the key here in separating a hustling role player to someone who can do much more. By getting minutes this year Jason's only learning more, and at age 22 with his hustle-rebound-offense combination as opposed to Varejao's at age 26 and only hustle-rebound combination, we surely know we've got the better player. And this is coming from a guy who was drawn into real athletic freaks like Anthony Randolph and JaVale McGee on draft day.

Varejao's contributions don't always show up on the stat sheet. He's a guy that plays with hustle and heart every night, and that's not something you can teach. Everyone needs to give the guy a break just because he isn't putting up outstanding numbers every night. I'd like him on my team any day of the week.
 
Long time lurker (over a year), first time poster

The trade for Miller I propose is:
Kings Outgoing:
Brad Miller
Beno
Houston 1st

Heat Outgoing:
Marion
Mario Chalmers

Anyone else like this trade? Chalmers is a quick point guard who gets a lot of steals, and can hit the three. With a back court of chalmers/brown we continue to go with the youth movement and trading Miller will open up playing time for Hawes/Thompson.

I don't mind the idea of trading Beno, but giving up the first in this scenario is pretty steep. Chalmers is ok, but really only a backup PG. If they are going to trade Brad and Beno I think the Kings could do better.
 
Miami got Chalmers for 2 future second round picks and a little cash. In my opinion, that's what we should have done. Geoff sucks with second rounders anyway, so giving them up doesn't hurt much.

Having blown our chance, I think Miami's going to want to keep him. And parting wih a first is a lot harder.
 
Varejao's contributions don't always show up on the stat sheet. He's a guy that plays with hustle and heart every night, and that's not something you can teach. Everyone needs to give the guy a break just because he isn't putting up outstanding numbers every night. I'd like him on my team any day of the week.
i dont think anyone is hating on Verejao necessarily, just trying to point out that he and Thompson are very different players. Specifically, Verejao is a proven hustle role player and Thompson has potential to be much more.
 
i dont think anyone is hating on Verejao necessarily, just trying to point out that he and Thompson are very different players. Specifically, Verejao is a proven hustle role player and Thompson has potential to be much more.

Yeah... I just think some people on this board rely too much on stats when clearly stats don't always tell the whole story
 
Miami got Chalmers for 2 future second round picks and a little cash. In my opinion, that's what we should have done. Geoff sucks with second rounders anyway, so giving them up doesn't hurt much.

Having blown our chance, I think Miami's going to want to keep him. And parting wih a first is a lot harder.

I don't believe Miami wants to get rid of Chalmers, that is why I included Houston's first rounder (it is top 15 protected anyway, right?), it will be the incentive for them to actually do the deal that I proposed. With that said, I would go as far as to try to package Salmons/Moore for Ben Gordon/Tyrus Thomas. We clear more cap space and get a half year to see if we would like to resign either Gordon or Thomas. I believe the Chicago organization have had it with Thomas and his work ethic, or lack thereof, and would part with him. Everyone knows Gordon's situation with the Bulls.

New Team with proposed trades:
Chalmers/Brown/Jackson
Martin/Gordon/Cisco/Marion/Douby
Thompson/Greene/Thomas/Hawes

New young/athletic team that can run and the team will have significant cap space in the future.
 
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Yeah... I just think some people on this board rely too much on stats when clearly stats don't always tell the whole story

My response was in comparison to JT's and Varejao's games...and I was trying to shed JT in a positive light instead of purposely denigrating Varejao's game. I recognize his value; he is a great hustler, has a great motor, will fight for the ball, plays infectious defense, and does a lot of things with intangibles that will never be shown on the stat sheet. But at the same time, he's awfully limited, and hasn't grown much at all. He is still what he was perceived as a rookie--a great role player, a cog player--I said that in my initial post. Anything more is not taking account Varejao's limitations.
 
My response was in comparison to JT's and Varejao's games...and I was trying to shed JT in a positive light instead of purposely denigrating Varejao's game. I recognize his value; he is a great hustler, has a great motor, will fight for the ball, plays infectious defense, and does a lot of things with intangibles that will never be shown on the stat sheet. But at the same time, he's awfully limited, and hasn't grown much at all. He is still what he was perceived as a rookie--a great role player, a cog player--I said that in my initial post. Anything more is not taking account Varejao's limitations.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade JT for him or anything. He is just an excellent role player in a desired position. Which is why I think Miami could really benefit from having him. They don't need another star (per se), they have Wade, and Beasley is waiting in the wings.

But back on topic, I'm confused as to why Cleveland would do that trade, especially since Wally is also a huge expiring. Sure, Marion has more star power, but do they really wanna ship Varejao off for a possible rental of Marion??
 
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