Chupacabra
Starter
I don't think there are many players in the league that can block the turn around baby hook that JJJ put up. Bagley had to get off the floor quick and time it perfectly.
[Game] Kings @ Grizzlies - Friday, Jan. 25 - 5PT/8ET
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
Chupacabra
Starter
Im with you. I usually hate boasting about a player that seems to be relatively quiet alot of the time, but Bjelica is needed to create space for everyone around the basket. It's not like he can't shoot; one of the best aspects of his game is shooting. I think coach just needs more time to figure out how much he needs to play and how long his stretches of play should be. He's obviously not built for speed, but he definitely has other redeeming qualities. Most importantly, I own his jersey and I wear it around the house.
This was the closest thing to a high school game I have seen in the NBA. Turnovers, people banging into each other, poor shooting and slow pace. The Grizzlies struggle on offense, but their defense really messed with the Kings. We won this game with defense. Fox took over at the end of the game. Very impressive. Bjelica brook loose. Good for him. Buddy put pressure on the defense.
I have never seen the Kings' win the ugly games like this year. Defense and rebounding always gives you a chance.
I have never seen the Kings' win the ugly games like this year. Defense and rebounding always gives you a chance.
Blob
Starter
He signed Ben 2/10 and held onto Conley and Gasol too long. Whomever trades for Conley or Gasol I think is going to regret it. Gasol is a slug. When Willie is eager to attack you and try to go through you, even with his limited success, that doesn't reflect well. Conley is clearly slowed. He doesn't create havoc like he once did getting into the lane. The only team I can see making sense to make a move for Conley is the Pelicans as a last ditch effort to make a run and keep Davis around, moving Holiday to off-guard or more of a combo guard situation, if they prefer Conley over Payton. Certainly the teams that need PG most, the Magic and Suns, would not want Conley. 1-2 years ago the Grizzlies could have gotten much more for both players. We should try to swing a deal sending Z-Bo back to the Grizzlies to finish off his career there and try to acquire JaMychal Green to immediately take the minutes from Goose Egg Jackson who lived up to his moniker last night! Coach Yogurt said Green is possibly playing out of position and envisions him as a small forward. I see him as a defensive minded combo forward, just what we need! More assets would have to be involved, perhaps Mason and Goose Egg to the Grizzlies.
Blob
Starter
You are spot on. It was nice Fox and Bjelica shook off their funk but we are not a playoff team as constructed and need a trade to become viable contenders. Barely squeaking by over the Pistons and Grizzlies reflects that. We are playing tenuous and spotty. We are a team that outperforms our point differential because of our aptitude for late game heroics most recently by Fox and Buddy. This masks our obvious deficiencies. Does anyone think Goose Egg Jackson has more talent Omri? Omri is a journeyman but he flies up and down the court with the leg speed Jackson can only fantasize about.
Omri had more dunks last night in one game than Goose Egg has had in whole career. Let that sink in. And here's another thing. Kings fans are so accustomed to seeing Willie bog down our half court execution with his middling ways it is not even identified as a problem. We are accustomed to the disjointed malaise. The guy is a non-threat at the high post so any sets that place him there are quite stagnant in their unfolding. Whatever happened to throwing your best five out there and allowing them to figure it out?
Our death lineup (Bogs, Buddy Fox, MB3, Giles) has played under 5 minutes all-season. Fine but why not substitute Willie for Giles and see what happens? Coach Yogurt will say he wants to encourage spacing and driving lanes for Fox and this lineup would inhibit that. This may be true but it is rooted in presumption more than a statistically significant sample size. Good players figure it out. Put your best players out there and let them figure it out. Instead we get this stubborn refusal to adjust and reward MB3 for his 22/11. Then he came out last night and pressed. Yogurt is too hung up on combinations instead of putting his players on the floor.
Shump said in the postgame having Harry Giles in the high post brings a calm and confidence to the second unit. He acts as a hub through which the offense can run. There is less frenetic one-on-one when Giles is doing his thing. This is what I see too but apparently this coach would rather hitch his wagon to Goose Egg and Willie than maximize the talent edge we can bring to the fore. Anyone who is not second guessing this coach is not paying attention to history. Then you have Yogurt resting Buddy until there is under 5 minutes left in the game. What are you waiting for, for Shump or Jackson to miss another shot?! Fortunately D-Fox was having none of it, overcoming the inherent flaws of teammates and head coach.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I wonder why no one even mentions Shumpert's name when it comes to creating space. Because he doesn't. Teams are cheating off of him right now, and using his man to clog the lane, or double. Right now, Shumpert is contributing nothing to the team, and for the most part, is hurting the team when he's on the floor. He's shooting 25% overall over the last 10 games. 22% from the three. He's been to the line a total of 6 times in the last 10 games. He over dribbles, and too many times runs down the shot clock to end up taking a contested shot.
I could live with that if he was playing 12 mpg, but he's playing 25 mpg. I might add, he's not rebounding the ball either.
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
They’re cheating off him right now as he is in a long shooting slump but he was hitting the three consistently enough over a greater stretch of the season not to be written off by his recent struggles. It’s pretty telling that he has a 10 game stretch of 20 percent from three but it has only dipped to 36 percent for the season. He was hanging around at 40 percent. That says he’s been pretty solid as a floor spacer for long enough to have an opportunity to play through a shooting slump.
Kings_of_California
Starter
We can talk about Shumpert and his shooting woes, which have been well documented throughout his career. But isn't he supposed to be a good defender? Doesn't he bring some value on that end? I don't get to watch games often so I truly don't know.
Not sure that makes up for his issues on the offensive end either way. He can't possibly be good enough to tolerate like a Tony Allen.
Not sure that makes up for his issues on the offensive end either way. He can't possibly be good enough to tolerate like a Tony Allen.
Agree. I like shumpert's personslality. And his output was > expectations at the start of the year. But SF still remains our biggest weakness.
Livinthedream
All-Star
All we're really saying is we need one more consistent scorer to go with Buddy. Someone who can stop an opponents run. Marvin will be that, but he's not polished yet. Shump and Bjelica will give it to you on occasion. So we're still 1 or 2 pieces away. Good news is trade deadline is almost here.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
My problem with that is that he has never been a good shooter. Historically, his averages are poor, and that's based on a fairly large sampling. Is it possible that a player fixed his shooting problems after 6 or 7 years in the league? Yeah, it's possible, but not likely. What's more likely is that his good shooting at the beginning of the year is an aberration, and what your seeing now is the real Shumpert.
I wouldn't hold my breath for any problem-solving trades at this point. i strongly suspect we're gonna sit tight until free agency unless somebody drops a "too good to be true" deal in our laps. Vlade has worked hard and we've got a lot to offer free agents. No need to make a trade just to make a trade, especially if it doesn't address our future.
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
I’d say both are aberrations to different degrees. One is a huge aberration, the other is slight. You chose the huge aberration and said that it was the real thing.
Going by career numbers Shumpert’s recent stretch is by far a bigger aberration than the first half the season. So no, what we’re seeing now is not even close to the real Shumpert in any sense. I’m not arguing him as some sharp shooter or the long term answer at the 3, but when he’s right he’ll hit a some open threes, some nights get scorching hot and play good defense.
People act like Shumpert played out of his head but he pretty much played on par to seasons he had on New York and Cleveland. Just those 8-9 points and good defense, along with his communication and leadership are a huge boost to the team. Like i said, he’s earned the right to get right just as Bjeli has
Livinthedream
All-Star
Not suggesting a trade just to make one. I'm saying a trade is how you stay in the playoff hunt this season. Unless you expect Shump and Beli to start playing well again and consistently. That I'm not holding my breath on. If it happened, then I'd be more than happy to be wrong.
As far as attracting key free agents, I'll again be pleasantly surprised if it happened, but wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket.
I'm saying I don't think they're going to put the playoff hunt ahead of long-term growth and success. No more bandaids.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Kings have two starters that can't spread the floor in Shump and Willie, Bjelica does it sometimes and Fox is too streaky so the only real reliable threat from deep is Buddy. There are three starters for the Kings right now who should not be starting but Joerger is always going to go with experience over youth so that's what the case is for the time being.
Kangztillidie
Bench
Which if you think about it only makes Buddys season look that much more incredible. To be the only threat to shoot, at the shooting guard spot, and have a suspect dribble yet still do what he does, makes the acquisition of Buddy look hindsight 20/20. Hes a prototypical 2 guard today.
Fox is a prototypical point, adequate from deep, finds players, and a threat to score from 3 levels. As long as Bagley and Giles develop according to plan....its a super team, just young. You only need a solid backup center and a starting SF to contend at that point as Fox is WELL ahead of the curve due to his amazing personality, IQ and growth.
Kangztillidie
Bench
Oh and btw, not enough is being made of Fox taking the team upon his young yet sturdy shoulders and winning this game on both ends. He made an extremely tough defensive possession turn into an extremely smart and tough offensive possession against what was the highest paid player 2 years ago. Dude is a sophomore battling the second year wall. One more offseason and he will be a top 3 player at his position and a top 20 player in the league. In his THIRD SEASON.
Not sure about you, but that crap excites me!!!
And it pisses Laker fans off enough to make me wanna gloat. All I hear from them is Fox will leave after his rookie contract for the Lakers anyway(if they only had smarts and understood the details of resigning rookies to a second contract is why they kicked tires about Durant and pretty much everyone and ended up empty handed lmao). Only society prevents me from placing a kick where its deserved to them. Too bad they drafted Lonzo Bust!
Not sure about you, but that crap excites me!!!
And it pisses Laker fans off enough to make me wanna gloat. All I hear from them is Fox will leave after his rookie contract for the Lakers anyway(if they only had smarts and understood the details of resigning rookies to a second contract is why they kicked tires about Durant and pretty much everyone and ended up empty handed lmao). Only society prevents me from placing a kick where its deserved to them. Too bad they drafted Lonzo Bust!
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Good point on Buddy. Buddy may never develop great handles but he is a hard worker and he does work on his craft so how much more he improves will be telling. Fox needs to continue to put up jumpshots, the form is there, it just needs consistency. Bagley too has good form on his jumpers so I have no doubt he will develop a respectable J.
Ron
Starter
Ron
Starter
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well first, I said that it's likely to be the real thing, and I based that on him having played 8 full seasons prior to this one. I'm not saying that we need to get rid of Shumpert, I'm saying his shouldn't be starting, if everything was ideal, which is isn't. Look, I'm more of an eyeball guy than I'am a stats guy, but I do use stats to convince myself that what I'm seeing is correct. What I know is that right now the league has adjusted to what the Kings are doing. Other teams are cheating off of Shumpert to double down, or clog the lane, making it difficult for Fox to create his usual chaos.
In 8 seasons Shumpert has shot 36% or over in just two of them, and in those seasons he averaged around 2 three pt attempts a game. This season he's averaging almost 5 attempts a game. 58% of all his shots are three's. Only 11% of his shots are within 3 feet of the basket. 3% of his shots are between 3 feet and 10 feet, and 7 % of his shots are between 10 feet and 16 feet. I won't bore you with all his stats from those distances, but he's not very efficient from any distance except withing 3 feet of the basket, where he seldom takes a shot.
Then there's the other side of the coin. His calling card is supposed to be defense, and we've all seen him play solid defense at times, but overall his defensive rating is 112, which is not very good, while his offensive rating is 103. That's a 9 pt difference to the negative. If you go back to early in his career he sported a defensive rating of 101, which is very good. I will concede that when your playing on a poor defensive team, it will affect your personal defensive rating. So I'll cut him some slack there.
Then there's the part that causes me to scream at my TV on a regular basis, and he's not the only culprit, but he's the most consistent one. Shumpert tends to be a ball stopper at times. It's as though he thinks to himself, it's my turn to take a shot, and he'll burn 10 to 15 seconds off the shot clock over dribbling the ball, and follow that by taking a highly contested shot, that he usually misses. He, like Bjelica at times is also guilty of passing up wide open three's, putting the ball on the floor, and driving into traffic for a more contested shot, or perhaps a turnover.
Little things either win or lose you games. One little mistake never seems like much at the time, in the heat of battle, but at the end of the day, when you've lost the game by one or two points, those little mistakes that compound as the game goes on, are what really lost the game for you. Those little mistakes are what stops your momentum at a crucial part of the game when your about to put the other team away, but instead, let them back into the game. Now I'm not blaming all of that on Shumpert. Buddy has made his share of bonehead turnovers at the wrong time. The difference is, Buddy will at least make up for it with his offense, so you can live with it. Shumpert won't/can't!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I tend to agree with you about making a trade that in any way might interfere with the teams long term growth and success. I have no idea if the Kings will make a trade, but logic tells me, that because of their current situation, they probably will. The Kings have worked hard to put themselves in their current situation, and for that reason, I can't see them blowing the opportunity to cash in on it.
The Kings are the only team in the NBA that is under the cap, and they're under the cap to the tune of 11 million dollars. Which means they can do what no other team can do, which is take on a player that makes 11 mil or less, and not have to send anything back in return, giving that other team the ability to save themselves up to 11 mil this year. This is very attractive to any team that is currently over the luxury tax threshold.
The question is, what's in it for the Kings. What asset can the other team offer that's attractive enough to get us to bite. Basically that puts the Kings in the driver seat. The team isn't desperate to make a deal, so the offer would have to be a good one, depending on how much the Kings are being asked to absorb.
My point is, I'll be surprised if the Kings don't make a trade. They haven't been sitting on that 11 mil all year for nothing. Once we get to free agency, there'll be a lot of teams under the cap, and the Kings will just be another player. Right now, the Kings are the only player, so hopefully they'll be able to take advantage of that.
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