Kings Go All-In (w/ IND & TOR)

[twslam07]

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IND Gets: Davion Mitchell, Terence Davis, Alex Len, & Chimezie Metu
IND Gives: Malcolm Brogdon
Why for IND? The Pacers move their 29 year old, win-now guard to further lean into the rebuild. They pick up Mitchell as another asset who has shown to be a solid complement next to Haliburton.

PG - Mitchell / McConnell / Sykes
SG - Haliburton / Davis
SF - Duarte / Hield
PF - Brissett / Metu
C - Turner / Jackson / Bitadze / Len

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TOR Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Richaun Holmes, Mo Harkless, Trey Lyles, 2022 SAC 1st (currently #5), 2023 SAC 1st (Unprotected), & 2025 SAC 1st (Unprotected)
TOR Gives: Pascal Siakam & Fred VanVleet
Why for TOR? They move on from their 27 & 28 year old, win-now vets to retool around their promising young pieces (Trent - 23, Anunoby - 24, Barnes - 20, Achiuwa - 22). Fox at 24 years old would align with their young core's timeline and give them a replacement go-to scorer & PG. Holmes gives them an upgrade at C to help them in the interim. Lastly, they get a top 5 pick in the draft to potentially add another young star as well as two unprotected future 1st round picks (the contracts for VanVleet, Barnes, Siakam, & Sabonis all expire before the the 2024 offseason meaning the 2025 unprotected 1st could be pretty darn valuable depending on if the Kings can retain their talent)

PG - Fox / Banton / Flynn
SG - Trent / Mykhailiuk
SF - Anunoby / Watanabe
PF - Barnes / Lyles / Harkless
C - Holmes / Achiuwa / Birch

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SAC Gets: Pascal Siakam, Malcolm Brogdon, & Fred VanVleet
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Richaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell, Mo Harkless, Terence Davis, Alex Len, Trey Lyles, Chimezie Metu, 2022 SAC 1st (currently #5), 2023 SAC 1st (Unprotected), & 2025 SAC 1st (Unprotected)
Why for SAC? Kings go all in and add some excellent fits around Sabonis who are in their prime. Siakam gives us a great defensive PF to help cover for Sabonis defensive deficiencies while also being a solid scorer, passer, & shooter. VanVleet & Brogdon give them a backcourt who can both defend, shoot, score, and pass at a high level. VanVleet-Brogdon-Barnes-Siakam-Sabonis would be a very high IQ team with a lot of shooting, defense, playmaking, & versatility. We'd still have Holiday & DiVincenzo (assuming we match his offer sheet) to be our 6th & 7th men off the bench.

PG - VanVleet / DiVincenzo
SG - Brogdon
SF - Barnes / Holiday
PF - Siakam
C - Sabonis

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[The_Jamal]

I mean yeah, I'd do this, but why would the Raptors reset? Siakam and FVV are all-stars already and they still have a ton of upside with OG only being 24, Gary Trent only 23 and Scottie Barnes a ROY candidate. They're already good and they have the young assets to potentially push their upside into being a top 3 east team in a few years.

I wouldn't trade Davion for Brog either. Brog headed for UFA, while I think Davion has a pretty great chance to be Brog level in a few years. Just an unnecessary all-in move that removes a big chunk of the Kings future upside.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Brogdon is an interesting trade candidate as he is a bit redundant with Ty. I wonder how he would fit with Fox? I still think Id take a look at Davis, DDV and Mitchell first and look for my starter among that group and make a big upgrade at the 3/4

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Since we'd have to pick for anyone we traded with in this scenario, I'd hope we had better trades on the table and at least waited to know we didn't like the guy available at our spot.

I'd also just like to see this crew plus a pick and a smaller trade (assume Holmes) rounding out the roster with a good coach and a proper offseason to get the system going.

This is way too radical an overhaul all at once for my tastes.

 

[twslam07]

I mean yeah, I'd do this, but why would the Raptors reset? Siakam and FVV are all-stars already and they still have a ton of upside with OG only being 24, Gary Trent only 23 and Scottie Barnes a ROY candidate. They're already good and they have the young assets to potentially push their upside into being a top 3 east team in a few years.

I wouldn't trade Davion for Brog either. Brog headed for UFA, while I think Davion has a pretty great chance to be Brog level in a few years. Just an unnecessary all-in move that removes a big chunk of the Kings future upside.

Brogdon has 3 more years on his contract. He signed an extension with them this last offseason for $67.6 mil over 3 years.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

OK, well maybe I'm a homer, but to start with, if you asked me if I would trade Fox and Davion for Brogdon and VanVleet straight up, I'd say no. We get a lot older (30/28 next year vs. 25/24 next year), and I'm not convinced we get significantly better. Looking at how the Fox/Davion PG tandem is working right now, I'm pretty happy with the fit and chemistry, it's sustainable relatively long term in terms of salary and age, and both players are still at an age where they are getting better. What we have at PG looks like it's working, and I have no interest in trying to start that over.

That means that in effect, in addition to a PG tandem swap I don't like, we're trading six players and three *unprotected* FRPs for two years (age 28/29) of Siakam. Siakam is good, but that's a massive overpay.

Does that team make the playoffs? Probably. But that team has a hard, hard window of two years, and year 1 is all "getting to know you" again. I don't think that team gels enough to be championship worthy by year 2, and then three of your top four players are free agents and all want $30M+. I don't think we can build like that in Sacramento.

 

[The_Jamal]

Brogdon has 3 more years on his contract. He signed an extension with them this last offseason for $67.6 mil over 3 years.

Ah, I missed this. But still, I think you invest in the Fox/DDV/Mitchell guard trio and continue to develop that upside and invest in some long-term solutions at the 3/4. Brog would be great at the 2, but you're using one of your best assets (Davion) to make a strength just a better strength while still ignoring the big holes on the team.

I don't think the Kings need to anything totally drastic/all-in this off-season. Get the HC right, get the top 8 (hopefully) pick right, spend your MLE and get a return on Richaun Holmes. With TD coming back next year, that gives you 4 spots of talent infusion around Fox/DDV/Mitchell/Barnes/Sabonis. Lyles, Jones, Holiday give you additional decent depth that's been playing well this year.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't think the Kings need to anything totally drastic/all-in this off-season. Get the HC right, get the top 8 (hopefully) pick right, spend your MLE and get a return on Richaun Holmes. With TD coming back next year, that gives you 4 spots of talent infusion around Fox/DDV/Mitchell/Barnes/Sabonis. Lyles, Jones, Holiday give you additional decent depth that's been playing well this year.

I admit to having complete rose colored glasses but I do have faith in Monte to at least draft well and make a good coaching hire. Tell me that doesn't look 100x more promising than anything we've seen outside of the first two month's of Malone's final season or 2018-2019 right up until the Barnes trade cratered the season since the drought began.

 

[macadocious]

Ah, I missed this. But still, I think you invest in the Fox/DDV/Mitchell guard trio and continue to develop that upside and invest in some long-term solutions at the 3/4. Brog would be great at the 2, but you're using one of your best assets (Davion) to make a strength just a better strength while still ignoring the big holes on the team.

I don't think the Kings need to anything totally drastic/all-in this off-season. Get the HC right, get the top 8 (hopefully) pick right, spend your MLE and get a return on Richaun Holmes. With TD coming back next year, that gives you 4 spots of talent infusion around Fox/DDV/Mitchell/Barnes/Sabonis. Lyles, Jones, Holiday give you additional decent depth that's been playing well this year.

Devils advocate here...


DDV is not a starter
TD is a 6th man type player
Mitchel is not currently a starter
Holmes is a marginal starter only with the exact right fit
Lyles has almost been out of the league multiple times. He's barely a top 10 player on a good team...and we are starting him
Holiday is a decent deep bench 3 and D player
Jones is not proven enough to rely on for anything, although he is showing promise.


If we go into next year with what you said above, we may be 3-5 wins better than this year assuming good health.

So 9/10 seed play in team...maybe.


So we need

Fox/Mitchell
Starting SG/DDV/TD
Starting SF/Holiday/Metu
Barnes/Decent backup/Lyles
Sabonis/Holmes/

 

[The_Jamal]

Devils advocate here...


DDV is not a starter
TD is a 6th man type player
Mitchel is not currently a starter
Holmes is a marginal starter only with the exact right fit
Lyles has almost been out of the league multiple times. He's barely a top 10 player on a good team...and we are starting him
Holiday is a decent deep bench 3 and D player
Jones is not proven enough to rely on for anything, although he is showing promise.


If we go into next year with what you said above, we may be 3-5 wins better than this year assuming good health.

So 9/10 seed play in team...maybe.


So we need

Fox/Mitchell
Starting SG/DDV/TD
Starting SF/Holiday/Metu
Barnes/Decent backup/Lyles
Sabonis/Holmes/

-I'm well on record here I strongly disagree with this sentiment. He's pretty quickly getting back to his old form and he's a year (albeit with a major injury too) removed from being the 4th best player and starter on the championship Bucks. You gamble he can find that form (which is starting to show through the last few weeks)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1505779897133776896

Put him where he should be as a support player and not a launcher off the bench and you'll get the results. Some positive signs the shot is returning.

-Mitchell hasn't been a starter, but perhaps he should be:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1505739290432528388

But instead we throw out Holiday for whatever reason.

-Holmes is your best trade asset this off-season. Not entirely sure what his market will be after a down year and injuries, but I anticipate teams will jump at his contract. I expect we can get a similar type talent at a different position to balance the roster (somewhere in the PJ Washington type range)

-No question the Kings need to upgrade the Lyles starter spot, but I don't think anyone expected for him to play as well as he has with us:

316 minutes
9.6 PPG
5.3 RPG
1.1 APG
.141 WS/48
66% TS (41% from 3)
13.8% TRB
16.3% USG
10% TOV

Basically just a really well-executed "role player" role next to a bunch of higher USG guys. And he's only 26, so it's not unreasonable to expect him to continue playing well. He was pretty decent with DET this season as well.

-Holiday is fine as your 8/9 man with some 2-3 positional flexibility and shooting. He's also played pretty poorly with us, so our view on him is going to be a little skewed.

-What more do you want from your back-up C than what Damian Jones has been this year? With Sabonis at the position, you don't want to spend your resources on any sort of "expensive" back-up like Richaun Holmes. Jones should be able to be resigned cheaply this off-season and we have Queta waiting in the wings to come up as the 3rd C. Sabonis/Jones/Queta can cover the C position and you have Lyles with some small-ball 5 in emergency situations. Spend the resources elsewhere.

 

[SacTownKid]

Nah, I can't get behind a Fox, Davion, DDV lineup being a major minute unit. We've already seen legit sized teams shooting over the top of them. Also, when we've seen it it was no different than with Haliburton except DDV is stronger and a much better defender. However Fox eventually found his way into having to guard the bigger wing just like before. You don't want someone so reliant for your offensive abilities to have players 20-30 pounds heavier physically weighing on them on the other end. That will wear him out quicker and quicker as the season goes on.

Depending on the draft it makes me wonder what the value is on Donte. How much can you really afford to pay him? Will he become another Holmes contract? If the Kings trade that pick for someone like Randle or Collins I think he should be a lock to return but if they draft a SG then his value to this team goes down immensely.