Kings GM Divac in charge and filling holes

#31
My point......they built a team to make the playoffs and dumped it when the playoffs were in reach. Then the goal was to keep the pick but kept all the expiring vets instead of trading for something of future use. I'd say that Vlade has been very lucky to point. A very poor job in executing each plan. Got fortunate on the second plan.
I'm not sure, this thought may have already been interjected somewhere in this thread. OK, I understand after trading Cousins, who by the way I was a huge fan of, Vlade did not want to do too much of a veteran dump for pieces that would improve our tank prospects. He did just enough of a vet dump, Casspi, Barnes, to almost certainly assure we keep our top 10 protected pick, but not enough to catapult us into one of the worst records. Philli was starting to play well, pre deadline, the last thing Vlade wanted was to have a worse record than Philli, get a top 3 pick and have to swap it for a much lower pick Think I'm giving him too much credit;).
Voisin, did make her usual digs on Cousins in that article, but not to the extent I was accustomed to. I really could not read her anymore with Cuz on this team, not that I'm a fan of hers now.
 
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#32
@Dude 12

It is quite possible when building a roster for a playoff push to expect it to handily make 8th and push for 7th or higher. We were scraping for every win to maybe squeak into 8th in a very down western conrerence lower half.

It is also possible no one wanted the vets we were trying to trade AB (After Boogie). There is no way for us to know. We could call it 50/50 Vlade tried but no takers and 50/50 he didn't try at all. We dont know which is right.

I think with Perry on board now we gain some ground in dealing players due to his experience and connections in basketball circles on all levels.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#33
You defended Cousins right until the end, I'm surprised how easily you have changed your tune ;)
Excuse me? Easily? I resent that. I have loved the game of basketball since 1963. In that whole time, I have truly admired less than a dozen players. I still firmly believe in the talents of DMC but finally came to realize he was not going to ever reach his full potential in Sacramento because of everything that had happened. It was not an easy decision but, after all is said and done and the smoke settles, it is for me about the name on the front and not the name on the back.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#34
Has he really backed off for good though? Sure, he's been fairly silent this past season, who's to say though that he won't get a chance to meddle again? Does a Tiger all of a sudden change his stripes?
Has he backed off? According to just about everyone who has weighed in on the subject, YES. He's not a fool. He didn't become a multi-millionaire by not learning from his mistakes.
 
#37
Let's just always be optimistic and act as if the Universe has rainbows and Unicorns prancing around everywhere.
Never thought I'd be called an optimist around here. I'm not saying don't criticise the guy/ organisation, but i dont see the point if you're going to doubt everything the organisation does just because Vivek is in charge. Is the ownership going to change? How exactly can you possibly be appeased aside from there being a change in ownership?
 
#39
I hate rainbows and unicorns. But the obsessive criticism from "fans" is every bit as excessive. Not saying you are obsessively critical; but some around here might fit in that category.
Who got two thumbs and bashes Vivek at every opportunity?

This guy!

For real though, I get the negativity towards the excessively negative. And as one of those posters who often gripes, I understand that it's got to wear on everyone else, but sometimes I lose myself in the catharsis of complaining.

The funny thing is that I'm a super optimistic person! That's the only reason I'm still around!

But (if I may speak for my fellow negative Nancys) this franchise gives so many opportunities to criticize it's easy to fall into the habit of doing so!

Anyways, I'm just happy that VF21 is back to being the optimistic poster she always was! It was a bummer to see her agree with me so often post Cuz trade.

Here's to Joerger, front office stability, the potential of our youth movement, and Vivek maaaaaaybe being hands off in the near and distant future!

*End ramble*
 
#41
I hate rainbows and unicorns. But the obsessive criticism from "fans" is every bit as excessive. Not saying you are obsessively critical; but some around here might fit in that category.
Excessive or on point? Every time the org starts getting some traction in the right direction, they muck it up. The 3 best players of recent history have been traded for low value or no value in IT's case. Now they have made some good hires recently but how long before they muck it up. I've stuck up for the org most of the time....being optimistic. Criticism is fair.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#42
Never thought I'd be called an optimist around here. I'm not saying don't criticise the guy/ organisation, but i dont see the point if you're going to doubt everything the organisation does just because Vivek is in charge. Is the ownership going to change? How exactly can you possibly be appeased aside from there being a change in ownership?
I understand that Vivek is not going anywhere anytime soon, all I want to point out is that within time, Vlade and his staff field together a winner and in return that will show Vivek that he has a solid front office in place and his place of meddling will diminish. I have yet to believe he won't have a say because he is the owner, but the best I can hope for is that he lets the staff do their homework and make decisions whether it rights the ship in the right direction or not.
 
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kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#43
I hate rainbows and unicorns. But the obsessive criticism from "fans" is every bit as excessive. Not saying you are obsessively critical; but some around here might fit in that category.
We invest time, money and emotion into this team. We have every right to be overly obsessive or overly optimistic at our own peril. I'm not here to tell you or anyone else how he/she should act, I have my own way of responding to things and I get flack for it, so be it.
 
#45
Well I must admit, if I have to read an Ailene article it is refreshing that its not a total Cousins dump. It also appears that Sacramento is well on its way to shedding the laughing stock label of the NBA. I don't worry so much about having an "all-star" on the team. I am much happier with a group similar in age that know how to play together and a front office that has some respect around the league. The all-star will come from within the ranks or appear when Sacramento once again becomes an attractive destination.
For what it's worth, I was in Charlotte last week for work and was listening to their local radio show and the hosts were going over young teams and rookies that looked good last year. They mentioned Sacramento and commented on the fact that even though they viewed the Cousins trade as a disaster, that the team looked like a team with a much brighter future going forward. They also said Skal ended the year as a rookie looking like he should have gone in the top 3-4, Hield looking like a solid player going forward, and the great coaching staff around Joerger.

Nothing to write home about or anything, but it was nice to hear a radio show on the other side of the country call the Kings future anything besides bleak and say some nice things about the team in the process.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#47
My point......they built a team to make the playoffs and dumped it when the playoffs were in reach. Then the goal was to keep the pick but kept all the expiring vets instead of trading for something of future use. I'd say that Vlade has been very lucky to point. A very poor job in executing each plan. Got fortunate on the second plan.
If I might suggest, maybe there wern't any trades that sounded appealing to Vlade. Maybe he would rather have the capspace and an entire summer to delve into the free agent market. He could have made a trade, but maybe the player coming back had three more years left on his contract, and Vlade didn't want to commit to that. Right now, other than the fact they're starting over, the Kings are sitting in a decent position. They have a young core, two lottery picks this year, and a ton of cap space.

Now what they do with all that, is the key moving forward. But it's a good starting point to be at. I'm glad we're not the Portland trailblazers this year. We would have suffered the same fate as the Trailblazers, humiliated in four games, and with no first round pick. Sorry, that's not my idea of something to be optimistic about.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#50
Excessive or on point? Every time the org starts getting some traction in the right direction, they muck it up. The 3 best players of recent history have been traded for low value or no value in IT's case. Now they have made some good hires recently but how long before they muck it up. I've stuck up for the org most of the time....being optimistic. Criticism is fair.
You have to separate the issues. It's too dammed easy to generalize when the topic at hand has been Vlade. He had nothing to do with the IT deal, yet you throw it into this conversation, and those less informed just absorb it as one more thing to bash Vlade about. So lets be specific when we talk about these things, and who they're related to. I've heard the word accountable throw around. (not by you) Just what exactly does that mean?

Should Vlade be taken out and horse whipped? It strikes me that he's certainly been held accountable on this forum. He's certainly been held accountable in the national media. Just what the hell else does everyone want? Or should we just continue to rag on Vlade until the world comes to an end. When is enough enough? Sorry, but it gets a little tiresome at times. Right now, I'm looking forward to the draft and going to summer league.
 
#51
#52
You have to separate the issues. It's too dammed easy to generalize when the topic at hand has been Vlade. He had nothing to do with the IT deal, yet you throw it into this conversation, and those less informed just absorb it as one more thing to bash Vlade about. So lets be specific when we talk about these things, and who they're related to. I've heard the word accountable throw around. (not by you) Just what exactly does that mean?

Should Vlade be taken out and horse whipped? It strikes me that he's certainly been held accountable on this forum. He's certainly been held accountable in the national media. Just what the hell else does everyone want? Or should we just continue to rag on Vlade until the world comes to an end. When is enough enough? Sorry, but it gets a little tiresome at times. Right now, I'm looking forward to the draft and going to summer league.
Not to speak on behalf of dude12 but I am pretty sure he was referring to the organization and not Vlade. One constant that has been present throughout the nightmare of last 3-4 years has been Vivek. Every single thing that has gone wrong in that period has had one constant and that is Vivek so while Vlade makes some positive moves, history suggests that Vivek might pull the rug under everyone again.
 
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#53
Not to speak on behalf of dude12 but I am pretty sure he was referring to the organization and not Vlade. One constant that has been present throughout the nightmare of last 3-4 years has been Vivek. Every single thing that has gone wrong in that period has had one constant and that is Vivek so while Vlade makes some positive moves, history suggests that Vivek might pull the rug under everyone again.
Correct
 
#54
You have to separate the issues. It's too dammed easy to generalize when the topic at hand has been Vlade. He had nothing to do with the IT deal, yet you throw it into this conversation, and those less informed just absorb it as one more thing to bash Vlade about. So lets be specific when we talk about these things, and who they're related to. I've heard the word accountable throw around. (not by you) Just what exactly does that mean?

Should Vlade be taken out and horse whipped? It strikes me that he's certainly been held accountable on this forum. He's certainly been held accountable in the national media. Just what the hell else does everyone want? Or should we just continue to rag on Vlade until the world comes to an end. When is enough enough? Sorry, but it gets a little tiresome at times. Right now, I'm looking forward to the draft and going to summer league.
As Carolija pointed out, your off....to be specific. :)
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#55
The much-debated Cousins deal was his trade. The directive to audition the younger players for the final weeks of the season came from his lips. The draft selections and/or draft day swaps – same as they were in 2015 and 2016 – will be his decisions. The hiring last week of Luke Bornn as vice-president of analytics and Scott Perry as executive vice president of basketball operations were his calls.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article146240159.html#storylink=cpy

So does this mean we can put to bed who was responsible for the Cousins deal? This article seems to indicate that Divac is running the show, period, end of story. Doesn't it?
 
#56
The much-debated Cousins deal was his trade. The directive to audition the younger players for the final weeks of the season came from his lips. The draft selections and/or draft day swaps – same as they were in 2015 and 2016 – will be his decisions. The hiring last week of Luke Bornn as vice-president of analytics and Scott Perry as executive vice president of basketball operations were his calls.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article146240159.html#storylink=cpy

So does this mean we can put to bed who was responsible for the Cousins deal? This article seems to indicate that Divac is running the show, period, end of story. Doesn't it?
Yes.........until Vivek makes an executive decision of firing Vlade and or Joerger. If Sac sticks with a plan.....any plan....for a full year, then that would be a record for the new regime. Lets see that through.
 
#57
If I might suggest, maybe there wern't any trades that sounded appealing to Vlade. Maybe he would rather have the capspace and an entire summer to delve into the free agent market. He could have made a trade, but maybe the player coming back had three more years left on his contract, and Vlade didn't want to commit to that. Right now, other than the fact they're starting over, the Kings are sitting in a decent position. They have a young core, two lottery picks this year, and a ton of cap space.

Now what they do with all that, is the key moving forward. But it's a good starting point to be at. I'm glad we're not the Portland trailblazers this year. We would have suffered the same fate as the Trailblazers, humiliated in four games, and with no first round pick. Sorry, that's not my idea of something to be optimistic about.
I think part of the reason why we currently disagree that often about the moves Vlade made and about the outlook of the Kings is because you value draft picks and cap space on a young team way higher than I do. I understand that every player in this league was drafted in the past. I understand that the draft is the best chance of a small market team to add a potential franchise player. But for me the draft is such a crapshoot, that I would always value players, that have already proven to be capable of playing in the NBA on a certain level more than mere draft picks. Bricky always said, that the sole reason of the draft is to find a player like DMC and I tend to agree with that.

What's the cap space going to do for the Kings moving forward? As a young team, we are not in the position to attract big time FA's. So we might go down the Lakers road and throw our money at middle of the pack type vets to squeeze out a few more wins next season. Or we might use our capspace to absorb bad contracts from other teams further along in the development curve and get something useful in return.

All in all I would gladly change places with the Trailblazers. They have 2 very good guards on longterm deals, a handful of solid roleplayers and an up and coming center along with 3 possible first round picks in 2017.
Their salary situation is critical though, because some of the deals they handed out last year turned out to be bad. But guys like Turner, Aminu or Leonard should be moveable with the 3 picks as possible sweeteners in mind, Crabbe and Harkless should have some value aswell and as a team capable of reaching the playoffs, with a good coach, with their two stars locked on deals until 2021 and posting a 17-8 record after the Nurkic deal the Blazers are an attractive destination. I expect another really aggressive offseason from the Blazers, trying to shed salary and trying to get into the Paul George hunt. And if successful the Blazers will be a team to be reckoned with.

In the end the Blazers are one major piece away from becoming a force in the league. They have a good age structure and their main guys are there for the longterm. They got humiliated in the Playoffs this year, but their midterm future doesn't look too bad. With the Kings everything is uncertain and entirely dependant on the development of our draftees. We could end up being much better than the Blazers in 4 years. We also could end up much worse.
I guess I'm more of a "the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" type of guy.
 
#58
I think part of the reason why we currently disagree that often about the moves Vlade made and about the outlook of the Kings is because you value draft picks and cap space on a young team way higher than I do. I understand that every player in this league was drafted in the past. I understand that the draft is the best chance of a small market team to add a potential franchise player. But for me the draft is such a crapshoot, that I would always value players, that have already proven to be capable of playing in the NBA on a certain level more than mere draft picks. Bricky always said, that the sole reason of the draft is to find a player like DMC and I tend to agree with that.

What's the cap space going to do for the Kings moving forward? As a young team, we are not in the position to attract big time FA's. So we might go down the Lakers road and throw our money at middle of the pack type vets to squeeze out a few more wins next season. Or we might use our capspace to absorb bad contracts from other teams further along in the development curve and get something useful in return.

All in all I would gladly change places with the Trailblazers. They have 2 very good guards on longterm deals, a handful of solid roleplayers and an up and coming center along with 3 possible first round picks in 2017.
Their salary situation is critical though, because some of the deals they handed out last year turned out to be bad. But guys like Turner, Aminu or Leonard should be moveable with the 3 picks as possible sweeteners in mind, Crabbe and Harkless should have some value aswell and as a team capable of reaching the playoffs, with a good coach, with their two stars locked on deals until 2021 and posting a 17-8 record after the Nurkic deal the Blazers are an attractive destination. I expect another really aggressive offseason from the Blazers, trying to shed salary and trying to get into the Paul George hunt. And if successful the Blazers will be a team to be reckoned with.

In the end the Blazers are one major piece away from becoming a force in the league. They have a good age structure and their main guys are there for the longterm. They got humiliated in the Playoffs this year, but their midterm future doesn't look too bad. With the Kings everything is uncertain and entirely dependant on the development of our draftees. We could end up being much better than the Blazers in 4 years. We also could end up much worse.
I guess I'm more of a "the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" type of guy.
While I can agree with your points made, I can also embellish the negative on the Blazers (Warning dry sarcastic humor to follow):

1A) here are two numbers for you: $119,732,234 $137,343,153. The first is this Blazers team salary this season, 2nd highest in the NBA. 12 million more than the team they could not win one game against in the first round. The second number is next seasons projected team salary:eek: That is 12 million more than any other team in the NBA!!!o_O
1B) Blazers are a very poor defensive team.
2) The one good move they made to improve this season, Nurkic, appears to be injury prone at key times.
3) Their two best guards are midgets.
4) They went well into luxury tax last summer for players that did not perform well enough to even win a Playoff game.
5) Their Salary being maxed out on under performing players has them boxed in on moves to improve their team. All the GM's know the Blazer's situation. Once again Paul Allen must dig into his stack of money to bail out his front office.
6) Even with their All Star being 5 seasons into his career he can't lead the Blazers to a Playoff win against a team with 3 players out including arguably the best player in the NBA. Also that team did not have their Head Coach for some games!

So while I agree Portland has a nice little team, look at the cost!!! The Kings team salary numbers are $95,596,327 $75,418,991. So by spending 24 million more than the Kings this season they got the honor of facing GSW in the First Round. Once there they could not WIN ONE GAME against a team riddled with injuries and missing their Head Coach part of the time!

Neil Oshley just needs Paul Allen to open up his vault and pay some more players:D
 
#59
I watched a lot of Blazers games in 2015-2016 because the gal I was seeing was a big fan. Went to more games that year than I ever do normally (maybe 5). They were a really fun team, all of that was completely gone this past season. They are a bit of a cautionary tale of what happens when you make a nice little run one year without ever being a threat to anyone and over commit to that. Nothing the Blazers did last summer remotely guaranteed them to do anything more than tread water, and they wound up losing ground.