There is a person underneath those uniforms

#1
I have to admit this is a nice article by Ailene Voisin. Normally I don't care for her stuff:

Here are a couple of quotes:

“One thing I’ve learned is that you have to keep your bags packed,” he [George Hill] added. “You never know. If it happens, it happens. But I’ve made great relationships in this locker room and with this club. If I leave, I’ll look them in the face, shake their hand and thank them for the opportunity.”

As he walked out of Golden 1 Center after the latest loss, he forced a smile. He hugged his son and his wife, and then left to make final preparations for the birth of the couple’s first daughter, who is due any day.

“That has me excited,” he said. “Hopefully that can help us start the new year off better.”


Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article192868559.html#storylink=cpy
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#2
The not what I expected part reiterates that the Utah source was probably from Hill about the expecting playoff stuff from the FO..

So, we have a guy who plays half speed, who doesn’t mind throwing the organization under the bus, compared to what he was expected to bring..

First off, it’s a business, and it’s true I only see this type of stuff as a fan.. But I suppose it’s like being employed in any other job, it’s an output driven business. If your half speeding it as a lawyer, lobbyist etc.. nobody is going to take into account your personal situation..

I guess in a way, it is what it is.. If he thought he could be a leader on/off the court here (I think he just took what cash he could), and then subconsciously didn’t have the ability to perform under rebuilding conditions, where does that leave us? I’m sure the conversation with Vlade has been had, both ways - Hill wanting out and Vlade telling him there needs to be a suitable deal. Now that we are in “tank” mode, i don’t mind him being here as much as a negative contributor, but i did mind the Utah article. It was another smear for the franchise
 
#3
The not what I expected part reiterates that the Utah source was probably from Hill about the expecting playoff stuff from the FO..

So, we have a guy who plays half speed, who doesn’t mind throwing the organization under the bus, compared to what he was expected to bring..

First off, it’s a business, and it’s true I only see this type of stuff as a fan.. But I suppose it’s like being employed in any other job, it’s an output driven business. If your half speeding it as a lawyer, lobbyist etc.. nobody is going to take into account your personal situation..

I guess in a way, it is what it is.. If he thought he could be a leader on/off the court here (I think he just took what cash he could), and then subconsciously didn’t have the ability to perform under rebuilding conditions, where does that leave us? I’m sure the conversation with Vlade has been had, both ways - Hill wanting out and Vlade telling him there needs to be a suitable deal. Now that we are in “tank” mode, i don’t mind him being here as much as a negative contributor, but i did mind the Utah article. It was another smear for the franchise
I think the "not what I expected" part comes in ways we may not understand. Here is a guy who played for Pop and with Tim, Tony and Manu. Then with Paul George and then with Gordon Hayward. The common thread was good teams with Playoff plans.

I do not for one second think anyone involved, Vivek, Vlade, Joerger, Hill and the rest of the players, coaches, etc thought the 2017-2018 Kings would make the playoffs. I do believe Hill is an ethical man and took the best financial deal for his family and himself. Knowing he was being told he would be in a rebuild situation and mentoring a bunch of young players.

Even with full disclosure going in Hill could still arrive at a point where the situation is "not what he expected." There is not one player on the Kings that requires a double team consistently. So teams are playing the Kings straight up on defense. The game is harder without a Tim, Manu, Tony, Paul or Gordon. Add in a major personal loss and Hill is possibly contemplating his expectations. There is no conspiracy here. Just a human being with good ethics in a situation that is "not what he expected."
 
#4
I think the "not what I expected" part comes in ways we may not understand. Here is a guy who played for Pop and with Tim, Tony and Manu. Then with Paul George and then with Gordon Hayward. The common thread was good teams with Playoff plans.

I do not for one second think anyone involved, Vivek, Vlade, Joerger, Hill and the rest of the players, coaches, etc thought the 2017-2018 Kings would make the playoffs. I do believe Hill is an ethical man and took the best financial deal for his family and himself. Knowing he was being told he would be in a rebuild situation and mentoring a bunch of young players.

Even with full disclosure going in Hill could still arrive at a point where the situation is "not what he expected." There is not one player on the Kings that requires a double team consistently. So teams are playing the Kings straight up on defense. The game is harder without a Tim, Manu, Tony, Paul or Gordon. Add in a major personal loss and Hill is possibly contemplating his expectations. There is no conspiracy here. Just a human being with good ethics in a situation that is "not what he expected."
He noticeably plays half speed and disengaged to many Kings fans, and to Ailene as she writes the article. That’s hard to empathize with. He’s a good, ethical guy who, subconsciously can’t deal with the situation so he appears to check out? Maybe, but that’s why I think a lot of Kings fans can more readily accept someone who plays hard but it just isn’t coming together for them
 
#5
I think just about all of us at one time or another have entered into a situation with high hopes, that we thought we were prepared for, and later found that it was not what we expected. It happens to people all the time, business deals, relationships, whatever ( I could probably add rebuilds in there, too. I cannot believe the number of people on this forum that apparently thought this team would compete for a playoff spot). Generally, we revise our expectations and try to make the best of it. I think this is where George Hill is at. I do not believe that Hill or any other veteran signee realistically thought for one minute that they were coming to a playoff team knowing what the roster was going to be. I believe that Hill fully understood what his role was (or at least he thought he understood how it would be). The reality is different than what he thought it would be, it's probably harder than he thought it would be to mentor this many young players and to run the team with this many young players. That doesn't mean he has thrown in the towel and isn't working at it. Throw in the fact that he suffered a personal loss and that has to affect his attitude, too.
 
#6
He noticeably plays half speed and disengaged to many Kings fans, and to Ailene as she writes the article. That’s hard to empathize with. He’s a good, ethical guy who, subconsciously can’t deal with the situation so he appears to check out? Maybe, but that’s why I think a lot of Kings fans can more readily accept someone who plays hard but it just isn’t coming together for them
I decided to watch some George Hill highlights on Youtube. So far the results are that I am impressed with Paul George and Myles Turner:)


You guys watch and then tell me what you think:



 
#7
I don't know what he was expecting, but if George Hill actually performed up to what the Kings expected and to the contract that the Kings signed him to, then maybe the Kings would be in the hunt for the playoffs right now. o_O
 
#8
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the dummies in charge thought this team could make the playoffs last offseason and sold Hill on that, as the Utah article hinted.

That Pop quote about Hill being more of a methodical system player was telling. I don't think he's the type of guy who would check out after a payday, Hill's rep around the league poo poos that idea, but he's definitely in a major funk trying to adjust to playing with kids on a garbage roster.

Good luck on getting traded, Hill! I'd rather see Fox and Mason (even Bogs) drive this tank off the cliff.
 
#9
It's kind of funny. We expected Hill to stave off nightly blowouts so that our kids could make gains with confidence. Instead Randolph took that role. Lose some, win some I guess. But fact is, Vlade overpaid for Hill and now his contract is going to be hard to move when it's time to really crank the tank.
 
#11
It's kind of funny. We expected Hill to stave off nightly blowouts so that our kids could make gains with confidence. Instead Randolph took that role. Lose some, win some I guess. But fact is, Vlade overpaid for Hill and now his contract is going to be hard to move when it's time to really crank the tank.
But we are not under any pressure to do so. We are still towards the bottom end as far as team salary so he's not pushing us into a repeater tax or anything like that.
 
#12
I think these quotes are much more telling...

“Very frustrating,” he said. “I’ve never been through anything like this, not ever. It’s not what I expected, a little more difficult than I anticipated. I think as a team we all get along. We like being around each other, like doing things together. But we’re still trying to learn each other, and it’s a different style of play. I’ve just got to figure things out.”

“Whatever they ask me to do is fine,” Hill insists. “We’re trying to develop the young guys, get them on the court. You’re going to have bumps and bruises when you have so many young guys with only one year of experience or less. My thing is, when you play a team like the Spurs, learn to play the right way. They commit, they talk, they screen hard. They get into their man. Become better by learning.”
 
#13
What I took from hills quotes is this:

He knew what he was getting into and he was still shocked at how incompetent this organization is. It's not gonna take long for us to hear from other players at what a sh** show this franchise really is. Personally, watching this team and how the players are being used, I'm surprised hill is the only one who has voiced that they are not happy.
 
#14
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the dummies in charge thought this team could make the playoffs last offseason and sold Hill on that, as the Utah article hinted.

That Pop quote about Hill being more of a methodical system player was telling. I don't think he's the type of guy who would check out after a payday, Hill's rep around the league poo poos that idea, but he's definitely in a major funk trying to adjust to playing with kids on a garbage roster.

Good luck on getting traded, Hill! I'd rather see Fox and Mason (even Bogs) drive this tank off the cliff.
Maybe we can work out a deal somehow with the Spurs and Pop and get a late 1st round draft pick in the process. Hill is one of Pop's all time favorites! ;)
 
#15
When he says, “I’ve never been through anything like this, not ever. It’s not what I expected, a little more difficult than I anticipated"

I don't read that as just ... I thought we'd have 5 more wins and be chasing the 8 seed (the mission). But, also the conditions of working toward that mission (the dysfunction and playing with guys that don't play the right way" (the conditions)

When you take a job that's not great, here preparing to hold your nose regarding both the conditions and the mission because the pay is good, it's often the day to day conditions that drive you nuts more than disagreeing with the mission. When he says they play the right way, they commit, they talk, they actually set me screens, he's not bitching about the 24 minutes he sits in games they don't win because the kids are getting time. He's bitching about the 24 minutes be plays because the other players are making it miserable out there for him (at least in his mind). This guy flat out hates playing here.

I read this story as George Hill flat out saying "Man, I too the money knowing it would kinda suck here, but I had no idea how much it would totally suck here."
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#16
I don't know what he was expecting, but if George Hill actually performed up to what the Kings expected and to the contract that the Kings signed him to, then maybe the Kings would be in the hunt for the playoffs right now. o_O
Really? I just don't see George Hill as the difference maker, the one guy that could turn it all around.

I honestly think people are being way too hard on Hill. It's all to easy to use him as the scapegoat for a lot of problems.
 
#17
Really? I just don't see George Hill as the difference maker, the one guy that could turn it all around.

I honestly think people are being way too hard on Hill. It's all to easy to use him as the scapegoat for a lot of problems.
I think when Vlade signed him, he was expecting a 16 pts/ 6 assists / 4 reb type of player with that $20 million contract.

If he was a legitimate threat, like he was in Utah and Indiana, the Kings would probably have a few more wins and be in around the 16 win mark right now. Close enough to at least talk making a run for the playoffs.

As it is, if he was not ready to mentor a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players, his interviews right after he signed his contract, seems to contradict that. I remember there was one interview where he was at the airport (I believe) and he said he was excited to mentor these young kids.

At this point, I think Hill is just a bad fit. I remember during the summer, the young kids like Fox was talking about how much running and gunning this team was going to do this season. You can still here coach Joeger telling his players to go faster in their sets.

But, the two veterans that "anchor" this team (Hill and ZBo) are not equipped to run with the young guys. As it is, that is on Vlade to find pieces that fit what they are trying to do.

Hopefully, we are able to move Hill to a team that can better utilize his skill set and we get something worthwhile back in return. This would open some valuable playing time for our young back court players too.
 
Last edited:
#18
When he says, “I’ve never been through anything like this, not ever. It’s not what I expected, a little more difficult than I anticipated"

I don't read that as just ... I thought we'd have 5 more wins and be chasing the 8 seed (the mission). But, also the conditions of working toward that mission (the dysfunction and playing with guys that don't play the right way" (the conditions)

When you take a job that's not great, here preparing to hold your nose regarding both the conditions and the mission because the pay is good, it's often the day to day conditions that drive you nuts more than disagreeing with the mission. When he says they play the right way, they commit, they talk, they actually set me screens, he's not bitching about the 24 minutes he sits in games they don't win because the kids are getting time. He's bitching about the 24 minutes be plays because the other players are making it miserable out there for him (at least in his mind). This guy flat out hates playing here.

I read this story as George Hill flat out saying "Man, I too the money knowing it would kinda suck here, but I had no idea how much it would totally suck here."
Doesn't that fall back on coaching though?

Joerger can't be blamed for some of the guys not knowing where to be on the court. The game is probably moving much too fast for them at the moment. But not talking and not setting hard screens? That's all on the coach right there. Those are two very simple things that should be a complete non issue for the team. If you can't talk on defense, you don't play. If you can't set hard screens, then I have a guy in Reno named Jack Cooley who can. It's not rocket surgery to at least have the minimal basics down.
 
#19
Doesn't that fall back on coaching though?
If a mediocre chef works at a restaurant where the ceiling is often falling in and he's got mostly dog food to work with as ingredients ... that the chef is mediocre isn't helpful ... but isn't primarily why the restaurant is going to fail.
 
#20
I think the "not what I expected" part comes in ways we may not understand. Here is a guy who played for Pop and with Tim, Tony and Manu. Then with Paul George and then with Gordon Hayward. The common thread was good teams with Playoff plans.

I do not for one second think anyone involved, Vivek, Vlade, Joerger, Hill and the rest of the players, coaches, etc thought the 2017-2018 Kings would make the playoffs. I do believe Hill is an ethical man and took the best financial deal for his family and himself. Knowing he was being told he would be in a rebuild situation and mentoring a bunch of young players.

Even with full disclosure going in Hill could still arrive at a point where the situation is "not what he expected." There is not one player on the Kings that requires a double team consistently. So teams are playing the Kings straight up on defense. The game is harder without a Tim, Manu, Tony, Paul or Gordon. Add in a major personal loss and Hill is possibly contemplating his expectations. There is no conspiracy here. Just a human being with good ethics in a situation that is "not what he expected."
It wasn't enough to just 'like' your post. I just wanted to say I really liked your post. ;-)
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#21
Hill has been in the league long enough to know it's a business at the end of the day and that loyalty doesn't exist, you make moves for the betterment of the franchise and I still believe he will be here at the very least until the off season but I'd love to be wrong.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#22
If a mediocre chef works at a restaurant where the ceiling is often falling in and he's got mostly dog food to work with as ingredients ... that the chef is mediocre isn't helpful ... but isn't primarily why the restaurant is going to fail.
I may not agree with the "mediocre" part, but the imagery is interesting to say the least. :)
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#23
I've been wondering lately if this plunge against bad competition is due to players talking with agents about trades that might be coming up and the fact that the Kings are shopping them. This post makes me wonder that much more.
 
#24
One thing that stood out was the implication that the team chemistry simply isn't good on the court. They get along with each other, but haven't been able to build basketball chemistry. Part of that is youth I'm sure, but I don't think Joerger is doing the team any favours playing 11 guys in different roles and lineups every single game. He keeps saying that he's waiting for 8 guys to step up consistently and secure their spots but I wonder if at some point he needs to just let them grow into those roles. Consistency breeds consistency
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#25
One reminder: This is Ailene Voisin we're talking about. I'd be careful about drawing too much from her implications. Just sayin'
 
#28
I personally thought Joerger was losing the team a month or so ago and Hill's quotes kind of make me wonder if that's whats happening. There was a noticeable difference in the way these guys looked stepping on to the floor, coming out of the huddles and how they speak to the media post game. I didn't say anything because it could just be because they are getting either tired of or just used to losing but my gut says that they're tired of playing in quicksand in this offense. Seems like the players all like Joerger on a personal level but just because you like your boss, it doesn't mean you like how they supervise you.
 
#29
One reminder: This is Ailene Voisin we're talking about. I'd be careful about drawing too much from her implications. Just sayin'
Not sure if you meant me, but I was drawing an implication directly from what she quoted Hill saying