Section 101
All-Star
hmm, TNT just said it was Daniels for cash. And after thinking about it for a min since he's injuried I bet insurance is paying his contract.
Kings get Marquis Daniels?
- Thread starter rainmaker
- Start date
Section 101
All-Star
Just got the Kings email on the trade and was right the first time.
Dr. Spaceman
Bench
I'm not cool with Petrie dangling an asset like our 2017 draft pick like that, but I understand what needed to be done.
That's gotta be a low point for Marquis' career though.
Um, cash moves are what got us into this position - we have two young studs, some good young role players, and more $$$ than anyone else to spend this summer and another high draft pick. Depending on the new CBA, we are sitting in a prime position.
Amory
Bench
Same....interesting.
I'm not cool with Petrie dangling an asset like our 2017 draft pick like that, but I understand what needed to be done.
That's gotta be a low point for Marquis' career though.
It is a protected 2nd round pick. It isn't changing hands at all.
Yeah the number of guys that apparently fit what the Kings were looking for (one year deals, making about 2-3M) wasn't huge. The only other guys that stood out to me are Telfair, Hayes, Azubuke, and Josh Howard and I don't think any of them would have really made a difference. Not that Walking Dead Daniels will either.
My only concern is that Petrie doesn't seem like the most creative GM around. I think there are ways to improve your team without adding long term money but we seem to make 1-2 trades every year that fit in the shoulder shrug category. I think we're getting close to that time frame when the Kings future is settled, the CBA is established and we get to see what he is really capable of.
My only concern is that Petrie doesn't seem like the most creative GM around. I think there are ways to improve your team without adding long term money but we seem to make 1-2 trades every year that fit in the shoulder shrug category. I think we're getting close to that time frame when the Kings future is settled, the CBA is established and we get to see what he is really capable of.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If those Deron williams rumors had any credence then I think that was what we were working on. We make the deal, either in the Cousins or Daly+Casspi + stuff versions, and keep Landry because we need the extra frontcourt depth with one of the big Cs gone. It dind't happen, so Landry to New Orleans for a young SG becomes the main move, but its not because we didn't have chips on the tabel for something much bigger.
This summer has long been the focal point anyway. That's when things will happen.
This summer has long been the focal point anyway. That's when things will happen.
There was a Cousins version? I wouldn't give up Cousins for Deron, especially since chances are he will bail after next season.
bibbinator
Bench
The draft pool in 2017 is predicted to be very deep. There are some extremely talented 6th graders out there right now.
Petrie has screwed us again.
Petrie has screwed us again.
Sources on both sides have said there was no discussion between the kings and jazz on Williams. Doesn't mean there wasn't something else but that potential deal seems unsubstantiated.
So true.
All the trades were mostly anemic and seemed done passively. It's like the other team initiated the trade, then Petrie says "OK, why not. Good for me, I don't have to think or move a bit". And the poor product we've seen on the court for so many years now is the testament of how poorly this team had been managed. And those who wants to defend Petrie, please just see the product on the court.
The product on the court is fine. The problem is that it's being grossly misused by the coach (although I admit it's not as eye-shattering horrendous as it was a couple of months ago anymore). With the right coach, and a couple of acquisitions using our capspace (either through free agency or taking on contracts in trades) we should be headed in the right direction. How far will we go? That will be up to the coach and the players to make things happen, but I think Petrie has done a good job putting a talented young core together.
kingsfan101
Starter
Think the main problem is that we are just not ready to take on any salary, unless someone is paying us to do so. The current situation is possibly the most extreme example of it. We HAD to spend some money to get over the minimum. Some other teams HAD to shed some salary to get under the tax. If we had used our cap to take the salary, we could have gotten picks, instead of cash. OKC got a ton of assets this way.
To be fair, it's very easy for us to say that the Maloofs should do this. It's their money, and not only is it for them to decide how to spend it, only they know their financial situation. Plus, we also don't know if any such deals were on the table, so it's just speculation.
Broadly however, our approach lately (in fact for a few years now) has been to pick cash whenever possible. We did it in the Landry trade, and then again, in Daniels trade. We can't get quality players this way.
For those looking forward to FA, this is not a very good sign. Not only is the class not very good (David West might be the best FA), we don't seem too willing to spend. As for trades, when do top players get traded for cap space unless they demand it? Dwight and CP3 are names people are speculating as stars who might want to relocate in future, but no one has ever attached their names with us (though Hollinger suggested, partly in zest, if we move to Anaheim). Teams don't dump even lower level players for cap space that easily, and will want something in return, which makes huge space redundant.
A new CBA might alter things significantly, but I doubt it shall be so drastic.
mr. moustache
Bench
What's wrong with saving the cap space for our existing players? Also, the space is great for one-sided deals(e.g., Maynor/Collison).
Petrie was KILLING me with the Bibby/Peja/Miller/Artest/Martin teams. Some people are complaining now that he's literally fixed it all up? Crazy.
The Hammer
All-Star
Really? Really. Can you have some vision please? We have quite possibly the best two players from the last two drafts, one of the best defensive bigs in the league, a few other good young players, and the most cap space in the league going into the offseason. If you think our gm hasn't done a good job because we are losing, you have no idea how a rebuild works, how long it takes.
"All the trades"?? What trades? The dally trade? That was insanely good for us. How the hell do you turn Spencer Hawes and a disgruntled overpaid chucker into Dally?
The Landry trade had to happen, and we get a pretty damn exciting young scoring prospect.
kingsfan101
Starter
Nothing wrong. I was responding to another post, and saying that we can use our cap space for something useful, but we need to use some of it. I personally don't think such a huge cap space shall be very useful for us. In fact, I am afraid that we might overspend on someone. Let's see if the CBA brings an early Christmas.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Your worried that they might overspend for someone, and others are critical because they haven't. Its sort of a lose/lose situation with some of the people. Some of the same people that criticized the Kings for constantly using their MLE to sign players, are not be critical of the Kings for not using capspace to sign players. The Maloofs, Petrie, I, Bricky, the Capt, and many other logical thinkers on this fourm, have stated that the Kings will do nothing major until a new CBA is in place, and were in the new freeagency period. Petrie stated publicly that the only major deal he would do at the trade deadline was an absolute no brainer for the Kings. The odd's of that happening were extremely slim.
The Kings have worked hard for the last couple of years to get in this position. Did you expect them to suddenly change course and make some kneejerk deals that might endanger what they plan to do in the offseason. I mean for crying out loud, they've said what they plan to do, and now their doing it, and everyone acts surprised. Can we all engage our brains here, and apply a little logic.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Can anyone see the brilliance of taking our salary down to absolutely pin point minimum to go into the summer with the maximum cap space of any team in the league. To attain more cap space would mean paying penalities which for all I know would count against the cap space.
They must be within a dollar or two of the minum salary allowable. Brilliant!
They must be within a dollar or two of the minum salary allowable. Brilliant!
kennadog
Dog On It!
Considering they lost $9.8 million last year and borrowed from the NBA to boot, I would imagine they are trying to keep the franchise afloat right now. Of course, it would have been nicer if they could have gotten money from more people actually attending the games. More ticket sxales, mmore parking fees, more concession sales.
kennadog
Dog On It!
I'd say picking up cash has been mainly last season and this. Considering the franchise is drowning in red ink, you find that surprising? Besides, I like what's started building on this team. Regardless of cap space, the team has to have enough revenue to pay higher salaries, too. Our "glory" team had one of the top five salaries in the league. So ticket prices went high. And they couldn't lower them until we unburdended outselves of all that accumulated high salary. Unfortuntately, with little corporate base in Sac or enough suites and club seats in the arena, the fans still really have to make up for that in ticket prices.
The big mistake made, was in not just blowing up the team as fast as possible, so we could have started rebuilding much sooner.
I would not presume that just because the Maloofs haven't spent recently, that means they won't spend after the new CBA. Why do people always focus the idea of capspace for free agent.s Cap space is still extremely valuable in buuilding this team. It means we can get a star through a trade and we can take on more salary than we send back in the trade. You no longer have to worry about matching salaries, until you're over the cap again. Remember, Webber didn't want to come here, but he had to, because he was traded to the Kings.
Geez, why are people always so anxious to spread gloom about the King's future as a team?
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Thank you, Baja. Your post here was a breathe of fresh for me after reading the complaints, panic and disgust which proceeded it. The Kings are OK. Not going to beat many right now but, for the most part, they've been playing together, showing good spirit, making some plays, not turning it over more, still rebounding, showing off a better Jason Thompson, getting Casspi more experience, not depending too much on Cousins right now, letting Dalembert show his stuff and seal his future with us. Not too bad.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
yep, i think petrie has done a good job in rebuilding. i would like to see him be a little more aggressive but overall body of work since reke has been solid.
kennadog said:
this is what was so painful. it should have started that year they brought musselman in. they held out and tried to "refurbish" the team through MLE signings. it was clearly not working and should have been blown up.
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You really think overspending kneejerk moves or saving are the only two options? Come on, I know from your posts on this board and from having met you in person that you know hoops. There are a ton of smaller ways to improve your team's positioning without blowing money on the likes of Mikki Moore and John Salmons. Doesn't mean the current strategy can't be successful, its just that there are other ways some posters favor.
I agree the team is in a better position now than they have been in the past, I'm just one of the fans that isn't overly confident that
a. The new CBA is going to be as favorable to our situation as some assume.
b. That the Maloofs are willing or able to spend that available money wisely.
c. That Petrie is as creative and aggressive as he needs to be to complete this rebuild.
Doesn't mean we don't know basketball, are illogical, trolls, fairweather fans or anything else. Not that there isn't a segment of naysayers that unfortunately are some of those things. Just like there are some diehards that are so loyal they overlook anything the team has potentially done incorrectly. There is room on both sides of the spectrum around the team's rebuilding strategy.
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Big Cuz 15
All-Star
the draft pool in 2017 is predicted to be very deep. there are some extremely talented 6th graders out there right now.
petrie has screwed us again.
lolol
Section 101
All-Star
Sam Amick said in his chat yesterday that figure is incorrect from forbes. The didn't lose money last year.
kingsfan101
Starter
There were multiple responses to my post, and was planning to respond individually. Thought it shall be easier and probably more coherent to put my thoughts in a single post.
To begin with, I don't think that our future is bad, nor am I anxious to spread gloom. Quite the contrary. With Reke and DMC, I think our future is quite bright. Nor I am surprised that the team is trying to pick up cash. As I said earlier, it's the Maloofs' money, and their team. They get to decide how to run it. And yes, the money shall be needed to give raise to our own players in future, so they have to consider that, along with revenues, while signing new players.
I also don't think it was advisable to spend lot of cap space now on some knee jerk deal.
The only points I am trying to make are
1. I don't think the huge cap space is as beneficial as some fans think it is.
2. If we had decided to spend some of the cap space, we could have picked some
assets on the cheap.
Let's tackle 1 first. Some people think that we can get a star using cap space, since we don't have to match salaries. I believe that is not possible. We shall need to give some major assets if we want to get a star. No team trades its star, unless he demands it. And often, it comes with a desire for a specific city. So, even if D12 or CP3 want to come here, we are not getting them, without giving up one of Reke/DMC and much more.
I guess all of us shall willingly give up half our roster including DMC for D12, but that's a pipe dream. More realistic are players like David West, Gerald Wallace, etc. In fact, if Reke and DMC both turn out to be studs, we shall need similar players around them, and not stars (I have in mind players like Ibaka, Noah), etc. These are guys who are excellent, shall command good money, but are not franchise guys (though some people think Noah is). You don't need max for them.
Again, teams shall not just give us guys like these. They'll again demand some assets in return. However, they shall settle for a much lower price, if we can get them under the tax (say Donte/Casspi, and sometimes even much much less than that. Spurs gave up Scola to Rockets for next to nothing).
This is what brings me to the second point. We gave up Landry for Thornton and cash. We took on Daniels and Boston paid us to do so. Fine. While I don't know the deals that were on the table (if any), we could have picked some assets like draft picks/prospect, if we had decided to take on some money. OKC got multiple picks out of Suns this way, they got Maynor from Jazz this way, Rockets got Scola from Spurs, etc.
Finally, a new CBA might alter things significantly (like a lower cap, LT threshold), which might improve our position significantly. I very much doubt that it shall be huge and sudden. Lot of owners who have spent money, or given up future assets to try and win now, shall not go along with this approach. You think Orlando shall like if its LT goes up drastically, forcing its owner to either shell out lot of money, or gut the roster, making D12 unhappy? Changes are more likely to be integrated slowly.
To begin with, I don't think that our future is bad, nor am I anxious to spread gloom. Quite the contrary. With Reke and DMC, I think our future is quite bright. Nor I am surprised that the team is trying to pick up cash. As I said earlier, it's the Maloofs' money, and their team. They get to decide how to run it. And yes, the money shall be needed to give raise to our own players in future, so they have to consider that, along with revenues, while signing new players.
I also don't think it was advisable to spend lot of cap space now on some knee jerk deal.
The only points I am trying to make are
1. I don't think the huge cap space is as beneficial as some fans think it is.
2. If we had decided to spend some of the cap space, we could have picked some
assets on the cheap.
Let's tackle 1 first. Some people think that we can get a star using cap space, since we don't have to match salaries. I believe that is not possible. We shall need to give some major assets if we want to get a star. No team trades its star, unless he demands it. And often, it comes with a desire for a specific city. So, even if D12 or CP3 want to come here, we are not getting them, without giving up one of Reke/DMC and much more.
I guess all of us shall willingly give up half our roster including DMC for D12, but that's a pipe dream. More realistic are players like David West, Gerald Wallace, etc. In fact, if Reke and DMC both turn out to be studs, we shall need similar players around them, and not stars (I have in mind players like Ibaka, Noah), etc. These are guys who are excellent, shall command good money, but are not franchise guys (though some people think Noah is). You don't need max for them.
Again, teams shall not just give us guys like these. They'll again demand some assets in return. However, they shall settle for a much lower price, if we can get them under the tax (say Donte/Casspi, and sometimes even much much less than that. Spurs gave up Scola to Rockets for next to nothing).
This is what brings me to the second point. We gave up Landry for Thornton and cash. We took on Daniels and Boston paid us to do so. Fine. While I don't know the deals that were on the table (if any), we could have picked some assets like draft picks/prospect, if we had decided to take on some money. OKC got multiple picks out of Suns this way, they got Maynor from Jazz this way, Rockets got Scola from Spurs, etc.
Finally, a new CBA might alter things significantly (like a lower cap, LT threshold), which might improve our position significantly. I very much doubt that it shall be huge and sudden. Lot of owners who have spent money, or given up future assets to try and win now, shall not go along with this approach. You think Orlando shall like if its LT goes up drastically, forcing its owner to either shell out lot of money, or gut the roster, making D12 unhappy? Changes are more likely to be integrated slowly.
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