Kings Franchise best player ever

[=LarryLegend=]

I was bored, i knew O is better than most people that played in the NBA, he is in the top 50, I thought it was a different topic, i was bored at work.

 

[bozzwell]

I'd like to ask anyone who picks Chris Webber over Oscar Robertson to explain why. I'm a really big Webber fan but there's really no comparison.

Because I quickly scanned list for Webber, without even for a moment realizing that THAT Oscar was a King once upon a time. Probably like many recent fans, I assumed that it is by now common knowledge that Webb was the best. Well...oooops.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Bobby Hurley was good. why would you make fun of him?

 

[VF21]

Bobby Hurley was NOT one of the top 9 players to ever play for the Royals/Kings franchise. No way, no how.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Clearly it's Mateen Cleaves.

But seriously, the Big O was at least top 5 all time (for the entire league), and I'd personally put him at number 1. If you're going to pick an NBA player that was seemingly without fault (minus injury problems), it would be Oscar. He was the opposite of a one-trick pony. He could score, rebound, pass, defend, shoot, ect. ect. at a super-star level.

 

[VF21]

Because I quickly scanned list for Webber, without even for a moment realizing that THAT Oscar was a King once upon a time. Probably like many recent fans, I assumed that it is by now common knowledge that Webb was the best. Well...oooops.

That's what I was hoping. I couldn't really imagine someone knowingly picking Webber over OR.

 

[Fear the Putin]

when someone puts up triple doubles night in an night out, there shouldnt even be choices for other players

 

[BMiller52]

Clearly it's Mateen Cleaves.

But seriously, the Big O was at least top 5 all time (for the entire league), and I'd personally put him at number 1. If you're going to pick an NBA player that was seemingly without fault (minus injury problems), it would be Oscar. He was the opposite of a one-trick pony. He could score, rebound, pass, defend, shoot, ect. ect. at a super-star level.

How in the heck can you say he's better than Wilt, Shaq, MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc? There's no way he's top 5 all time.

 

[NK64]

I suppose. It's a shame that our newer fans don't know the history of the franchise more.

We had a Rochestal Royals fan here and NK64 is a fan from back in the Kansas City days. They told some good stories. I don't know if the stories are still there, though, or if they were lost when the board had the catastrophic failure back in 2004.

People need to do some research about Oscar and Nate "Tiny" Archibald. And, while they're at it, they should look up the other guys whose jerseys have been retired.

If I get a bit of time, maybe I'll post some information about each of the numbers hanging in the rafters. The stories behind a couple of them will really surprise and move you.

I never saw The Big O play. As VF said my history with the team started when they had Tiny playing along with the likes of Sam Lacey, Bill Robinzine etc and then came Phil Ford and Otis Birdsong who both contributed way more than bobby hurley ever did to the legacy of the Kings...but there should never be any doubt who the best Kings player of all time is

so i would vote

Oscar Robertson
Nate Archibald
Mitch Richmond
CWebb

 

[VF21]

I just finished posting the first in a series of things I'm writing for the board, titles "The Names in the Rafters." Hopefully it will help some of our younger and/or newer Royals/Kings fans get to know a little about the guys whose jerseys have been retired by the franchise.

Hope you enjoy them.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20842

 

[Bricklayer]

How in the heck can you say he's better than Wilt, Shaq, MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc? There's no way he's top 5 all time.

You average a triple double for a season your name goes right up there. Always was right up there. As an aside, kindly remove Shaq from your pantheon there. He clearly does not belong at that level.

 

[BMiller52]

Dude, I hate Shaq but a lot of people call him the most dominant force ever. How does that not get a mention?

 

[Bricklayer]

Dude, I hate Shaq but a lot of people call him the most dominant force ever. How does that not get a mention?

The most dominant force ever averaged 50pts and 20rebs one season and once scored 100pts in a game.

Shaq topped out at about 30 and 14 and did not sustain. He's no better than the 4th best center, and with Oscar, MJ, Bird and Magic ahead of him, no better than the 8th best overall. Probably one or two below that.

 

[BMiller52]

Dude Oscar's not better than Shaq. Shaq's teams won championships. Oscar never won anything and he played with some hall of famers. He's top 10 all time but I don't think you can say he's top 5, he only has 1 freaking championship and he wasn't even the best player on that team.

 

[hoopsfan]

Dude Oscar's not better than Shaq. Shaq's teams won championships. Oscar never won anything and he played with some hall of famers. He's top 10 all time but I don't think you can say he's top 5, he only has 1 freaking championship and he wasn't even the best player on that team.

Dude...The Big O was one of the key players, (along with Alcindor), on the the Bucks championship team in 1971.

 

[BMiller52]

Yeah but he couldn't win anything as the best player on a team despite having 2 HOF teammates.

 

[VF21]

Wow.... just wow.

Oscar Robertson AVERAGED a triple-double for an entire season. And came very close to doing it at least two more times. Think about that a moment. He AVERAGED something most players are lucky to have a few times in their careers. It's not just about the rings, BMiller. It's about overall contributions to the game.

Check out his lifetime stats:

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=ROBEROS01

 

[BMiller52]

Yeah but big men win games, guards don't. If I'm starting a franchise I take the dominant big man 9/10 times, the only time I don't is if we're talking about Michael Jordan.

 

[VF21]

Yeah but big men win games, guards don't. If I'm starting a franchise I take the dominant big man 9/10 times, the only time I don't is if we're talking about Michael Jordan.

This isn't about starting a franchise. It isn't even about big men vs. guards. It's about the careers of Oscar Robertson and Shaquille O"Neal. Yes, Shaq has been dominant and a big influence. BUT he is not anything close to the caliber of player Oscar Robertson was. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

 

[BMiller52]

Ok so he's better than Shaq. Where do you think he is all time and who is he above?

 

[allrightythen]

Its hard to compare bigs to guards to swing players etc.. but historically when you say all around player, Oscar Robertson is the first guy on the list. Granted I can't say any of this from what I've seen, I'm no where near old enough to have watched him, but I've talked a lot of basketball and read a lot of basketball and that seems to be a pretty commonly held belief.

Personally I get too confused when talking "best player ever" with all the different roles guys played and arguments to ever come to a decision. The Big-O is one of those names in basketball lore that does and probably always will make my eyes wide and my ears perk up when I hear those who saw him tell about it.

 

[kupman]

Not only did the Big O average a triple double for an entire season, check out his stats for his rookie year:

30.5 pts, 10.1 rbs. and 9.7 assists (leading the league)

- nearly a triple double his rookie year. Unbelievable

If he played in this day and age, I can only imagine how over the top the Nike add campaign would be.


How in the world can 25% of the votes be going to CWebb? It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Yeah but he couldn't win anything as the best player on a team despite having 2 HOF teammates.

By that measuring stick Wilt wasn't very good either, and Bill Russell is just about the best player to ever suit up (which may be true).

In his third season, the Royals beat the Chamberlain led 76ers in the playoffs, but got steam-rolled by the Celtics (the Celtics won 11 championships between 1957-1969). His last season, 1973-74 paired along side Kareem, his team made it to the NBA Finals, after his retirement, they didn't even make the playoffs.

Robertson is universally regarded as one of the greatest players in NBA history, a triple threat who could score inside, outside and also was a stellar playmaker. His rookie scoring average of 30.5 points per game is the third highest of any rookie in NBA history, and Robertson averaged more than 30 points per game in six of his first seven seasons.[1] Only two other players in the NBA have had more 30+ point per game seasons in their career. Robertson was the first player to average more than 10 assists per game, doing so at a time when the criteria for assists were more stringent than today.[3] Furthermore, Robertson is the only guard in NBA history to ever average more than 10 rebounds per game, doing so three times. In addition to his 1964 regular season MVP award, Robertson won three All-Star Game MVPs in his career (in 1961, 1964, and 1969). He has the all-time highest scoring average in the All-Star Game for players participating in four or more games (the league standard for the record) at 20.5 points per game. He ended his career with 26,710 points (25.7 per game, eighth-best all time), 9,887 assists (9.5 per game) and 7,804 rebounds (7.5 per game).[1]
Robertson also set yardsticks in versatility. If his first five seasons are strung together, Robertson averaged a triple-double over these 400+ games, averaging an incredible 30.3 points, 10.4 rebounds and 10.6 assists.[15] For his career, Robertson had 181 triple-doubles, a record that has never been approached.[16] These numbers are even more astonishing if it is taken into account that the three-point shot did not exist when he played, which was introduced by the NBA in the 1979-80 season and benefits sharpshooting backcourt players. In 1967-68, Robertson also became the first of only two players in NBA history to lead the league in both scoring average and assists per game in the same season. The official scoring and assist titles went to other players that season, however, because the NBA based the titles on point and assist totals (not averages) prior to the 1969-70 season. Robertson did, however, win a total of six NBA assist titles during his career. For his career, Robertson shot a high .485 field goal average and led the league in free-throw percentage twice — in the 1963-64 and 1967-68 seasons.[1]