[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
So I don't consider Boogie,Cwebb,Barnes impartial at all, they all had an axe to grind with Grant
As a talk show guy Grant always had to address "Hot topics"
I did not see any negative comments from Peja,Vlade,BobbyJ,Doug,CarmDave,Koz,Katie
But I am sure no one can stick up for Grant without fear of losing their jobs
only Past disgruntled players
I did see a lot of silence from other reporters other than Jason Jones who pulled up as many Past screwups as he could
Given the way Napear went Napear on Bobby Jackson that one time he was injured, I rather doubt that Jackson comes down on the pro-Napear side, regardless of whether he's been publicly "negative," or not.

And you can pretend like only "past disgruntled players" have a problem with Napear, but there's a bunch of ex-Kings who aren't disgruntled, and don't have jobs that they need to worry about losing, and they ain't sticking up for Napear, either.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Given the way Napear went Napear on Bobby Jackson that one time he was injured, I rather doubt that Jackson comes down on the pro-Napear side, regardless of whether he's been publicly "negative," or not.

And you can pretend like only "past disgruntled players" have a problem with Napear, but there's a bunch of ex-Kings who aren't disgruntled, and don't have jobs that they need to worry about losing, and they ain't sticking up for Napear, either.
Jason Jones talked about getting texts from current players over the last couple of days. Certain players from the current team have been conspicuously absent from the guest list on the Grant and Doug show while also appearing on different media with a solo Doug. Not exactly rocket science.
 
Circumstances and personal opinions aside, in just a few years time the Kings have gone from easily a top 3 broadcast duo in the entire NBA to, well, who knows. But probably not. That's a nut you don't crack very often.
 
Given the way Napear went Napear on Bobby Jackson that one time he was injured, I rather doubt that Jackson comes down on the pro-Napear side, regardless of whether he's been publicly "negative," or not.

And you can pretend like only "past disgruntled players" have a problem with Napear, but there's a bunch of ex-Kings who aren't disgruntled, and don't have jobs that they need to worry about losing, and they ain't sticking up for Napear, either.
but that is the thing " the bunch of ex-kings who aren't disgruntled and don't have jobs that they need to worry" they are not saying Positive or Negative on the subject, except Boogie,CWebb,MBarnes and Jason Jones
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
but that is the thing " the bunch of ex-kings who aren't disgruntled and don't have jobs that they need to worry" they are not saying Positive or Negative on the subject, except Boogie,CWebb,MBarnes and Jason Jones
And my point is that that is not an argument in Napear's favor. The fact that Cousins, Barnes and Webber are the only ex-Kings willing to go on the record about their dislike for Napear doesn't mean that the rest were okay with him, or even indifferent to him.

Put it this way: Webber made the claim that all the ex-Kings know that Napear is trash, and I haven't seen a single player refute him on that statement. Not even Napear's co-host.
 
And my point is that that is not an argument in Napear's favor. The fact that Cousins, Barnes and Webber are the only ex-Kings willing to go on the record about their dislike for Napear doesn't mean that the rest were okay with him, or even indifferent to him.

Put it this way: Webber made the claim that all the ex-Kings know that Napear is trash, and I haven't seen a single player refute him on that statement. Not even Napear's co-host.
"Chris Webber: Demarcus we know and have known who grant is. The team knows as well. I’ve told them many times. They’ve seen it. They know who he is" Where is "all ex-Kings" in this Qoute from the twitter text
Yes Demarcus knows, " the team" I am guessing is CWebb complaining to the front Office

I guess we need ananonymous Poll?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Circumstances and personal opinions aside, in just a few years time the Kings have gone from easily a top 3 broadcast duo in the entire NBA to, well, who knows. But probably not. That's a nut you don't crack very often.
They still are a top broadcast team. Gary Gerould is one of best sports broadcasters period and a hell of a nice guy to boot. Doug Christie also an amazing human being and getting better and better as a broadcaster. Jason Ross has been underrated as the ultimate sports broadcasting glue guy for years. Oh and Kayte is as good as ever. And if you don't like that, you don't like Kings Basketball.
 
Top 3? Even acknowledging my antipathy towards Napear, that's a stretch and a half.
As someone who didn't grow up a Kings diehard and who has experienced many, many various broadcast teams over the years I'll just say, you don't know what you got 'till it's gone. They've won an emmy. Grant himself and his slogan have been repeatedly heard in national commercials by the NBA. They topped some contest a few years back by hoopshype or some other leading news site I can't remember exactly. Time will always win out anyway, but it's the end of an era for sure.
 
They still are a top broadcast team. Gary Gerould is one of best sports broadcasters period and a hell of a nice guy to boot. Doug Christie also an amazing human being and getting better and better as a broadcaster. Jason Ross has been underrated as the ultimate sports broadcasting glue guy for years. Oh and Kayte is as good as ever. And if you don't like that, you don't like Kings Basketball.

I was specifically referring to the duo of Grant and Jerry. For sure, there is still a wealth of talent elsewhere. Koz is national level talent as well.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
As someone who didn't grow up a Kings diehard and who has experienced many, many various broadcast teams over the years I'll just say, you don't know what you got 'till it's gone. They've won an emmy. Grant himself and his slogan have been repeatedly heard in national commercials by the NBA. They topped some contest a few years back by hoopshype or some other leading news site I can't remember exactly. Time will always win out anyway, but it's the end of an era for sure.
It was Awful Announcing (not really a "leading" news site), and yes, I remember that "contest." You and them are both wrong about this.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
I listened to a bit of Grants old show on KHTK this afternoon. I heard quite a few people call in to defend Grant and speak well of him. The current Hosts were having none of it and kept changing the subject.

While I was never a huge fan of Grant's style on radio he is a good play by play guy. He and Jerry were a great team.

I don't think Grant should have been fired.
 
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I listened to a bit of Grants old show on KHTK this afternoon. I heard quite a few people call in to defend Grant and speak well of him. The current Hosts were having none of it and kept changing the subject.

While I was never a huge fan of Grant's style on radio he is a good play by play guy. He and Jerry were a great team.

I don't think Grant should have been fired.
For this, no. For past sins, yes.
 
Somehow this thread eluded me (thanks to @VF21 pointing me in the right direction). I'd like to chime in .....

So, it will be interesting to see who our new announcer will be, now that Grant has "resigned".

For me, I'd prefer it if they had G-Man do a simulcast with DC still doing color.

G-Man encompasses SAC and the KINGS to me. He's been with the org from day 1 and has done stints on the TV side. Most KINGS fans seem to revere him and it seems like a home run decision to make.

He is SAC's version of Vin Scully and Chick Hearn. And they did simulcasts.

G-Man is my top choice, by far. But if he didn't want to do it, or if the org decided to go in a different direction on the TV side, then I'd be ok with some of the other suggestions in this thread.


I always found it odd that we kept a guy around who had so clearly aligned himself with the old ownership group that he actively advocated for moving the team to Southern California and has such a toxic relationship with so many former players (while also claiming to be Vlade’s BFF the entire time) that most of them refused to go on his show even after Doug joined him (and EVERYONE loves Doug).

Me too.

Some here may have forgotten, and some here may not be old enough to have experienced all that went on during those early relocation years. But his behavior was very turncoat. It very much rubbed me the wrong way.

Marcos Breton article says it all for me
Best Impartial coverage on this situation I have seen so far

I don't agree with 'impartial' from the standpoint that he's a media member sticking up for a fellow media member. I realize he made it clear they weren't close friends and even had a spat at one point, resulting in only appearing on the radio show once. But I don't believe that completely qualifies him as impartial.

That said, the resounding point Breton is missing IMO is that there have been a myriad of events that have transpired the past 3 decades that almost assuredly played roles as well.

In short, I don't believe this one current mis-step was the sole reason for the end result.


DeMarcus actually did it, he got the final word in that dispute. What an unfathomable plot twist! I've been calling for this for a long time so I'm obviously happy Grant is no longer with the organization but I'm beyond shocked that this is how it happened.

DMC handed him a fuse and GN lit it himself. I'm with you in that this turned out to be a crazy plot twist.
I'd add that CWebb and MattyB also had a part in it.

In the end, the contentious relationship he willingly forged with/against those three players, as well as others, had personal consequences.

It's a reminder to me that, while we have free speech under the constitution and can say most anything we want as long as it doesn't incite violence or create a public safety issue, we are not protected from the personal consequences that can result from of our words and actions toward others.



Just read the Jones Athletic article. thought it was fair and provided good context and history behind all this
The Jason Jones stories and podcast have a little more context than Breton. I’ll leave it at that.

I fully agree. Unlike Breton, JJ recognized and acknowledged that there is more to this story than just the most recent incident. Kudos to him for that.

For the most part, I didn't dislike GN the TV guy. I thought he was a very good PbP announcer.

That said, I didn't like when he allowed his personal agendas to bleed over into that role. For example, he'd often poke at DMC during live game broadcasts. From little passive aggressive comments that a fan outside the SAC market might not catch to going overboard in admonishing him for his on court behavior. Calling attention to it was ok IMO, but not letting it go was over-the-top. Also, hated when he would say things like "you can't allow a 3 here..." but I digress. On the whole he was good.

The radio guy was another thing altogether. He always defended his shtick and behavior on radio by separating the two jobs. Some fans bought it. Some didn't.

I haven't listed to his show religiously in years. But for much of the past 26 years, I did. Mostly because I could at various jobs and such. And on the whole, I found his show to be the best way to get KINGS related info. The participation on other topics was also fairly good.

But like many others, I didn't care for his NY tough guy persona or his rudeness toward fans that didn't deserve it. Most of all, I didn't care for his combativeness toward certain KINGS players over the years. They've mostly all been named here. CWebb, BoJax, MattyB, Boogie.

It was ok to disagree with them. But I just feel he helped take things to an overly personal level. And, again, it bled over into arenas it shouldn't have. IMO that's what invariably came back to bite him in the you-know-what.

Lastly, I also feel it's important to stipulate that it wasn't just ONE player that this happened with. I get that some of these players, and possibly all of them, can be considered combative and sensitive themselves. But GN is still a common thread among them. And as a professional radio and TV guy, it should be incumbent upon him not to allow it to bleed into his work. That's just how I see it, anyway.


I don't think this was about one comment. That was just the catalyst to act on what has probably been brewing for awhile.

Again, I fully agree. To me, this is the resounding, most important point to keep in mind. It's easy to get swept up in the moment, but there were decades of words, behavior, and relationships that came into play.

I might very well be wrong about this, but if it had been G-Man that made the same comment -- I'm not so sure the reaction and result would have been quite the same.

For one, notice DMC didn't ask the same question of G-Man. Nobody was trying to bait him, likely, because of how they know and feel about him. But if G-Man had somehow volunteered the comment, I don't believe numerous former players would have jumped in to react as harshly as they did to GN.

When relationships and past behavior are considered good, most people tend to be more forgiving of perceived mistakes.
 
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Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Somehow this thread eluded me (thanks to @VF21 pointing me in the right direction). I'd like to chime in .....



For one, notice DMC didn't ask the same question of G-Man. Nobody was trying to bait him, likely, because of how they know and feel about him. But if G-Man had somehow volunteered the comment, I don't believe numerous former players would have jumped in to react as harshly as they did to GN.

When relationships and past behavior are considered good, most people tend to be more forgiving of perceived mistakes.
Look at G-Man's twitter compared to Grant's. He'd never drive himself into the stupid stupid corner Grant did (i.e. not being Elmer Fudd in a Looey Tunes cartoon following Bugs into an obvious trap.
 
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Look at G-Man's twitter compared to Grant's. He'd never drive himself into the stupid stupid corner Grant did (i.e. not being Elmer Fudd in a Looey Tunes cartoon following Bugs into an obvious trap.
Absolutely right. He wouldn't.

But my point was more about how his track record the past 30 years (and longer) would likely afford him a bit more margin for error. As would the relationships he's built with those same players, along with all the others that have passed through SAC -- either a KINGS player or an opponent.

However, just as I say that, we're now seeing Drew Brees get into hot water over comments he made, so we'll see that notion get put to the test. I don't recall Brees having a negative track record or a history of contentious relationships, but I also haven't deep dived into it.

One thing that seems sure to me is that sensitivity (and lack there of) is reaching all new highs, so there might not be much margin for error or forgiveness even for those that a spotless past.
 
Assuming that Damien Barling's comment is 100% accurate, and I have no reason to suspect that it isn't, it's yet another layer to this onion. And quite upsetting. A lot of signs seemed to be apparent over the decades, but nothing was done. Instead, excuses were made for the behavior and it was further tolerated.

Pretty ironic considering how GN criticized those around DMC of doing the same thing. But I digress.

I've seen a lot of talk lately about a certain type of 'privilege', but, to me, this falls more under 'celebrity privilege' than anything else. Celebrities come in all different shapes, sizes, cultures, etc. If we compiled a list of celebrities that have abused their position and/or were perceived to have been absolved of the consequences stemming from their boorish or illicit behavior, we'd probably never finish the list.

GN was no doubt a local celebrity and a cash cow for at least one of the employers he worked for. His show generated huge ratings, comparatively, in the area. IMO, that factor, along with his local celebrity status, is what enabled the situation to last as long as it did. Value to the employer superseded his treatment of some of those that worked with him, his callers and some of the athletes he interviewed.

Now, I acknowledge that not all of those that worked with or around GN will feel the same way as Damien Barling, DMC, Chris Webber, Matt Barnes, and others. I haven't read their comments since this all heated up, but I'm fairly sure the likes of G-Man, Jason Ross, Carmichael Dave, Dave Mason, Scott Marsh, etc. will have a much different view. And likely will defend GN. Their personal experience could be drastically different.

And I'm by no means stating that my POV or the POV of others are 100% accurate. I didn't know GN. I only knew him from afar and called into his show a handful of times, mostly back 15+ years ago.

My first real interaction with GN was back during the late 80's when my family held season tickets in section 101 row Z of the 2nd ARCO arena. Our row was the last row of the section thus we were right in front of GN -- who worked for, then, KRBK Channel 31. He would do live in-game reports right from the station's suite. My father and I used to converse with him now and then about how nervous he always looked just before he'd go on air but then turn on the switch where you'd never know it. And about other things.

But I didn't really know him, of course. Aside from some of our interactions at games, I only knew GN the radio host and PbP announcer just like most every other fan. So my POV is merely an accumulation of everything I've witnessed, read or heard over the decades -- from that vantage point -- along with the accounts of others, such as DMC and Damien Barling.

As the old saying goes, perception becomes reality to many. So for the other radio/media guys I mentioned, I expect they'll be upset by what many are saying in the aftermath and will undoubtedly have a different POV than the rest of us. I fully understand and empathize with that.

It's just my feeling that GN's ego and past behavior toward select others finally caught up with him. To me, it's both upsetting and understandable.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Look, if race was the issue in the Napear firing, then would it be surprising if the Kings hired a black man to do the broadcasts? That seems to be the direction they're going.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Somehow this thread eluded me (thanks to @VF21 pointing me in the right direction). I'd like to chime in .....




For me, I'd prefer it if they had G-Man do a simulcast with DC still doing color.

G-Man encompasses SAC and the KINGS to me. He's been with the org from day 1 and has done stints on the TV side. Most KINGS fans seem to revere him and it seems like a home run decision to make.

He is SAC's version of Vin Scully and Chick Hearn. And they did simulcasts.

G-Man is my top choice, by far. But if he didn't want to do it, or if the org decided to go in a different direction on the TV side, then I'd be ok with some of the other suggestions in this thread.





Me too.

Some here may have forgotten, and some here may not be old enough to have experienced all that went on during those early relocation years. But his behavior was very turncoat. It very much rubbed me the wrong way.




I don't agree with 'impartial' from the standpoint that he's a media member sticking up for a fellow media member. I realize he made it clear they weren't close friends and even had a spat at one point, resulting in only appearing on the radio show once. But I don't believe that completely qualifies him as impartial.

That said, the resounding point Breton is missing IMO is that there have been a myriad of events that have transpired the past 3 decades that almost assuredly played roles as well.

In short, I don't believe this one current mis-step was the sole reason for the end result.





DMC handed him a fuse and GN lit it himself. I'm with you in that this turned out to be a crazy plot twist.
I'd add that CWebb and MattyB also had a part in it.

In the end, the contentious relationship he willingly forged with/against those three players, as well as others, had personal consequences.

It's a reminder to me that, while we have free speech under the constitution and can say most anything we want as long as it doesn't incite violence or create a public safety issue, we are not protected from the personal consequences that can result from of our words and actions toward others.







I fully agree. Unlike Breton, JJ recognized and acknowledged that there is more to this story than just the most recent incident. Kudos to him for that.

For the most part, I didn't dislike GN the TV guy. I thought he was a very good PbP announcer.

That said, I didn't like when he allowed his personal agendas to bleed over into that role. For example, he'd often poke at DMC during live game broadcasts. From little passive aggressive comments that a fan outside the SAC market might not catch to going overboard in admonishing him for his on court behavior. Calling attention to it was ok IMO, but not letting it go was over-the-top. Also, hated when he would say things like "you can't allow a 3 here..." but I digress. On the whole he was good.

The radio guy was another thing altogether. He always defended his shtick and behavior on radio by separating the two jobs. Some fans bought it. Some didn't.

I haven't listed to his show religiously in years. But for much of the past 26 years, I did. Mostly because I could at various jobs and such. And on the whole, I found his show to be the best way to get KINGS related info. The participation on other topics was also fairly good.

But like many others, I didn't care for his NY tough guy persona or his rudeness toward fans that didn't deserve it. Most of all, I didn't care for his combativeness toward certain KINGS players over the years. They've mostly all been named here. CWebb, BoJax, MattyB, Boogie.

It was ok to disagree with them. But I just feel he helped take things to an overly personal level. And, again, it bled over into arenas it shouldn't have. IMO that's what invariably came back to bite him in the you-know-what.

Lastly, I also feel it's important to stipulate that it wasn't just ONE player that this happened with. I get that some of these players, and possibly all of them, can be considered combative and sensitive themselves. But GN is still a common thread among them. And as a professional radio and TV guy, it should be incumbent upon him not to allow it to bleed into his work. That's just how I see it, anyway.





Again, I fully agree. To me, this is the resounding, most important point to keep in mind. It's easy to get swept up in the moment, but there were decades of words, behavior, and relationships that came into play.

I might very well be wrong about this, but if it had been G-Man that made the same comment -- I'm not so sure the reaction and result would have been quite the same.

For one, notice DMC didn't ask the same question of G-Man. Nobody was trying to bait him, likely, because of how they know and feel about him. But if G-Man had somehow volunteered the comment, I don't believe numerous former players would have jumped in to react as harshly as they did to GN.

When relationships and past behavior are considered good, most people tend to be more forgiving of perceived mistakes.
The most resounding point that I keep in mind is that Napear was an opinionated, acerbic talk show host. Smoothness was not his strong suit. The most resounding point is that race was used as the dagger because he hurt the feelings of those he criticized, not because of his racism. In other words, the race card was played. His criticisms of Cousins and Webber had to do with the content of their character, not the melanin content of their skin, and were very well deserved, imo.
 
The most resounding point that I keep in mind is that Napear was an opinionated, acerbic talk show host. Smoothness was not his strong suit. The most resounding point is that race was used as the dagger because he hurt the feelings of those he criticized, not because of his racism. In other words, the race card was played. His criticisms of Cousins and Webber had to do with the content of their character, not the melanin content of their skin, and were very well deserved, imo.
Not during live game broadcasts, it certainly wasn't.
Nor was his turncoat behavior 'deserved' by the fans or the city of SAC during the Magoof relocation saga.

As I stated already, GN did plenty of boorish things over the past 3 decades to warrant release. He's actually fortunate it didn't happen much sooner -- like, say during the ownership change.

I for one won't miss his personal agendas bleeding over into game broadcasts and attemtping to run players out of town utilizing the power of his dual roles to sway public opinion.

If he hadn't ever sunk to those unprofessional levels, I'd be a lot more upset over his departure.
 
... Unless you believe that Napear's opinion of the "content of their character" was informed by the "melanin content" of their skin.
I clearly have no first person experience in the matter, but I do find it curious that, not one, but several different players and even a former KHTK employee ALL felt he was a closet racist. That doesn't make it true, of course, but it surely does make me wonder about behind the scenes behavior we fans didn't see or hear over the decades.
 
I clearly have no first person experience in the matter, but I do find it curious that, not one, but several different players and even a former KHTK employee ALL felt he was a closet racist. That doesn't make it true, of course, but it surely does make me wonder about behind the scenes behavior we fans didn't see or hear over the decades.
I mean the vast majority of NBA players are black so if a white commentator is going to have a problem with a few players, then the odds are in favor of the players being black. I thought he went way overboard with Cousins but Cousins, Barnes and Webber all had character issues so it's not like he just randomly picked them out because of their skin color. He just annoyed everyone because he wouldn't shut up about them.

Was he racist or was he just an old white guy that didn't like hip hop culture? The two are not the same in the same way that an old white guy isn't racist against white people because he doesn't like white kids wearing skinny jeans with feminine shirts and goofy haircuts. For many people, once you reach a certain age, a vast majority of younger people look and act like a bunch of goofs.