[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

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kingsfan101

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This thread is about Kings, but my comments are about Lakers. Since this thread is really long, and has veered off from time to time, taking the liberty to post here. Mods, please move/delete if inappropriate.

I was thinking about the trades at the deadline, and was left wondering how the Lakers were able to retool. They got fairly decent pieces in Russell, Beasely, and Vanderbilt, and they didn't have to give up much. They were even able to trade Russ.

It can be argued that they didn't have much to give, and that they did pay a price in terms of 2027 pick. However, that pick is top-4 protected. I still believe that for a pick that far out, they were able to extract an excellent deal from Utah, who has otherwise been very savvy. Utah ended up giving away Conley and two second round picks. It's possible that Utah decided to play for the ping pong balls, but I'm not sure they can fall enough (currently they have more wins than 14 teams in the league). The Lakers pick could end up being a second round pick, for which they gave up so much.

Perhaps I am overthinking, but was just wondering if agents are forcing the hands of teams to some extent. I guess it's no secret that they will try to help their star clients, and there is probably none bigger than Bron, that too in LA. However, wasn't sure how much squeeze they have over teams. This time, felt it was pretty blatant, though some others might feel that the trade was not as one-sided as I think.
 
SLAB

SLAB

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The_Jamal said:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1629165764518486018

LOL

Gonna be honest, I think you could have thrown darts at a draft board every year with these picks and done better than Vlade did as a talent evaluator, holy crap.

We're not talking like 20 years ago either, WCS was drafted in the 2015-2016.
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I like to rail on Vlade more than most, but it wasn’t just a Vlade problem. Remember the previous years’ picks of Jimmer, TRob, McBen, and Stauskas.

Looking at that list of names picked to play around him, it always blows my mind that people blame Cousins for why the Kings were bad.
 
T

The_Jamal

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SLAB said:
I like to rail on Vlade more than most, but it wasn’t just a Vlade problem. Remember the previous years’ picks of Jimmer, TRob, McBen, and Stauskas.

Looking at that list of names picked to play around him, it always blows my mind that people blame Cousins for why the Kings were bad.
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And on the VERY rare occasion we actually hit on somebody (Tyreke, IT2), we'd let them walk because we didn't want to pay them. IT2 only wanted like another $500k LOL and we didn't pay it.

If the Monte era has shown anything, it's how truly important talent evaluation is. He obviously nailed the Hali pick, Keegan looks like a home-run, Davion up in the air, but also finding undervalued assets at the right times. Huerter for a protected FRP and expiring contracts, Trey Lyles as a throw-in, TD for a 2nd round pick, Metu off the street, etc. And while Hali is a major major piece/player obviously, I think you can probably call Domas undervalued at the time as he's taken his game to a totally different level this season as a King and is on track to be all-NBA 3rd team.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS

QWERTYLICIOUS

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SLAB said:
I like to rail on Vlade more than most, but it wasn’t just a Vlade problem. Remember the previous years’ picks of Jimmer, TRob, McBen, and Stauskas.

Looking at that list of names picked to play around him, it always blows my mind that people blame Cousins for why the Kings were bad.
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For me, it wasn't necessarily his talent that pissed me off (Cousins was one helluva talented player). It was the other things that did me in...The constant meltdowns, the technical fouls, the stupid arguments. It got to the point at which all of those things pretty much managed to take control of his game, and thus made his game non-effective, or it basically canceled out any sort of contribution he made on the court that night.
 
SLAB

SLAB

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QWERTYLICIOUS said:
For me, it wasn't necessarily his talent that pissed me off (Cousins was one helluva talented player). It was the other things that did me in...The constant meltdowns, the technical fouls, the stupid arguments. It got to the point at which all of those things pretty much managed to take control of his game, and thus made his game non-effective, or it basically canceled out any sort of contribution he made on the court that night.
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One of the biggest what-ifs ever to me is “What if prime DMC was ever on a good team”

If the Kings had drafted say … Dame Lillard instead of Thomas Robinson, then Dame and DeMarcus have the Kings as a perennial playoff team is DMC always so salty? And even if he has some of the same tendencies is he then looked at like a FIREY WINNER like Draymond instead of BLACK CLOUD / Cancer?
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

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The_Jamal said:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1628401729485123585

Kind of insane we're getting the short end of the stick this badly and still off to our best start in 16 years. Not to mention we've had a few games straight up stolen at the buzzer (Klay fouls Huerter for 3 FTA, Herro travel to hit a game-winner and one other I can't remember)
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Also after the NBA basically acknowledged the first dozen or so games we had games blatantly stolen, they did a lot more "judgement call, correct decision" type notes in those L2M reports, often times in direct contradiction with a preceding judgement call or one that followed the one against us. So while not an error, there was more to the story than is now showing up in these reports. The Lakers game we lost on free throws and non-call on Fox is the most blatant example. Read that L2M.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS

QWERTYLICIOUS

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SLAB said:
One of the biggest what-ifs ever to me is “What if prime DMC was ever on a good team”

If the Kings had drafted say … Dame Lillard instead of Thomas Robinson, then Dame and DeMarcus have the Kings as a perennial playoff team is DMC always so salty? And even if he has some of the same tendencies is he then looked at like a FIREY WINNER like Draymond instead of BLACK CLOUD / Cancer?
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Your points are all well-received, Sir. And I agree.

Re: The part of your post/comments that I have bolded...We may have hosted a parade in June as a result (or maybe even a couple of parades).

But, here we are many years later, and we will never know (that's the unfortunate part of this whole thing).
 
hrdboild

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QWERTYLICIOUS said:
For me, it wasn't necessarily his talent that pissed me off (Cousins was one helluva talented player). It was the other things that did me in...The constant meltdowns, the technical fouls, the stupid arguments. It got to the point at which all of those things pretty much managed to take control of his game, and thus made his game non-effective, or it basically canceled out any sort of contribution he made on the court that night.
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DeMarcus certainly didn't do himself any favors with his antics but that was also a known issue coming into the league and why he wasn't taken earlier in the draft. I think if he'd gone to a better run organization with a consistent coaching staff and front office, more accountability, and veteran leadership we'd be talking about him now the same way we talk about Tim Duncan. It's unreal how talented he was.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS

QWERTYLICIOUS

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hrdboild said:
DeMarcus certainly didn't do himself any favors with his antics but that was also a known issue coming into the league and why he wasn't taken earlier in the draft. I think if he'd gone to a better run organization with a consistent coaching staff and front office, more accountability, and veteran leadership we'd be talking about him now the same way we talk about Tim Duncan. It's unreal how talented he was.
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You're most likely correct but, as I said in my post above in response to @SLAB's comments, the unfortunate thing is the simple fact that we will never know...
 
2

206Fan

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hrdboild said:
DeMarcus certainly didn't do himself any favors with his antics but that was also a known issue coming into the league and why he wasn't taken earlier in the draft. I think if he'd gone to a better run organization with a consistent coaching staff and front office, more accountability, and veteran leadership we'd be talking about him now the same way we talk about Tim Duncan. It's unreal how talented he was.
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Prime Cousins 100% paved the way for modern elite Cs.

What he used to do was unheard of... 6'11 270lb guy who could pound you inside... and also shoot mid ranges... and also shoot 3s... and also pass?

And he did all of this with almost 0 help and horrific floor spacing. I don't think he ever really got the credit he deserved. It's a shame his career went the way it did with the injuries.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

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kingsfan101 said:
This thread is about Kings, but my comments are about Lakers. Since this thread is really long, and has veered off from time to time, taking the liberty to post here. Mods, please move/delete if inappropriate.

I was thinking about the trades at the deadline, and was left wondering how the Lakers were able to retool. They got fairly decent pieces in Russell, Beasely, and Vanderbilt, and they didn't have to give up much. They were even able to trade Russ.

It can be argued that they didn't have much to give, and that they did pay a price in terms of 2027 pick. However, that pick is top-4 protected. I still believe that for a pick that far out, they were able to extract an excellent deal from Utah, who has otherwise been very savvy. Utah ended up giving away Conley and two second round picks. It's possible that Utah decided to play for the ping pong balls, but I'm not sure they can fall enough (currently they have more wins than 14 teams in the league). The Lakers pick could end up being a second round pick, for which they gave up so much.

Perhaps I am overthinking, but was just wondering if agents are forcing the hands of teams to some extent. I guess it's no secret that they will try to help their star clients, and there is probably none bigger than Bron, that too in LA. However, wasn't sure how much squeeze they have over teams. This time, felt it was pretty blatant, though some others might feel that the trade was not as one-sided as I think.
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Honestly I think Ainge was tasked with getting off money at the start of the season and Conley has another year on his deal. I think most folks around these parts know I spent most of the 90s in Boston and am a fan of their other teams and have the Celtics as a very distant B team. So I know Ainge well, he's really great at moving stars and getting value in return but his lesser trades as well as draft picks are definitely not all hits. So in this case he got rid of money and a vet who would be unhappy on a rebuilding project but I don't think Ainge was going to just intentionally nuke the team for extra ping pong balls. They're ahead of schedule so he's clearing deadweight and letting things fall where they do. He understands if you do what Houston and Detroit are doing (giving OKC a pass right now) you create a deadbeat culture and those young super talents never learn to shake off their bad habits in their key developmental years. And he can watch Minnesota stumble over the next 3-5 years and reap those rewards as he rebuilds without a tank in Utah. But on the other hand, much like the Celtics he may get them past a Process team like Philly but still fall one notch short with this strategy if he can't ultimately land a top 3 pick.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

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QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Your points are all well-received, Sir. And I agree.

Re: The part of your post/comments that I have bolded...We may have hosted a parade in June as a result (or maybe even a couple of parades).

But, here we are many years later, and we will never know (that's the unfortunate part of this whole thing).
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Yeah but at least we got several months of fluff pieces about how T-Rob is a good dude because he raised his little sister after their mom died.
 
L

Livinthedream

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Regarding draft picks, these picks didn't happen in a bubble. This organization has been extremely unstable up until this year. Nobody is going to convince me that WCS wouldn't have been a helluva talent if he had went through the Spurs organization.

As a matter of fact. Give me all those same draft picks and the following conditions since say the draft of Cousins and the Kings would have made the playoffs in the last 16 years. Probably even backed in multiple times.

1. Ownership is not trying to tank so they can move the team more easily.
2. Ownerships management style leans more toward stability than creating chaos and conflict.
3. Have a coach with the competency level of a Joerger or Brown and remains in place for a minimum of 4 years.
 
Warhawk

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Livinthedream said:
Regarding draft picks, these picks didn't happen in a bubble. This organization has been extremely unstable up until this year. Nobody is going to convince me that WCS wouldn't have been a helluva talent if he had went through the Spurs organization.

As a matter of fact. Give me all those same draft picks and the following conditions since say the draft of Cousins and the Kings would have made the playoffs in the last 16 years. Probably even backed in multiple times.

1. Ownership is not trying to tank so they can move the team more easily.
2. Ownerships management style leans more toward stability than creating chaos and conflict.
3. Have a coach with the competency level of a Joerger or Brown and remains in place for a minimum of 4 years.
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Personally, I would probably swap out Malone for Joerger in your third point.
 
9x1x6

9x1x6

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Weekly power rankings from The Athletic

Link: NBA Power Rankings: Celtics, Kings and Lakers rise as final stretch approaches; Reviewing team predictions - The Athletic

7. Sacramento Kings (previously ninth) | 35-25 | +2.5 net rating
Weekly slate: Win over Blazers, Win at Clippers, Win at Thunder

First-quarter grade: A+ | Ranked 14th
Halfway grade: A | Ranked 10th
Third-quarter grade: A-

Admittedly, I don’t know if I truly believe they’re on the brink of contention. I don’t think they have the star power to truly contend, even with as good as Domantas Sabonis and De’Aaron Fox have been this season. Although, if Fox is just this kind of clutch player for the rest of time, then that assertion by me will look absurd in every way. With all that said, the West is so open and the Kings’ offense has been so unstoppable this season, so why couldn’t they get to the conference finals and flirt with upsetting everybody? The Kings still look rough defensively, but their historic offense has negated that so far.

Prediction update: Keegan Murray finishes second in NBA Rookie of the Year voting… Feels like everybody has crowned Bennedict Mathurin as number two in the race and Walker Kessler as the emerging force for finishing top-three. But Murray should still be in the mix for both of those. He’s been incredible.
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iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

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I’m surprised how the Kings Clips game has been kinda glossed over. Almost all the talk I’ve seen on it has been “where was the defense lolz :D:D:D:D“ instead of discussing the greatness of the Board man and the unreal performance by the Kings. We all have talked about it being one of the best games ever but it seems like the NBA community is barely including it in game of the year. It’s easy to assume some of the folks didn’t actually watch the game but I could tell people on a few of the podcasts I listened to actually did and still they didn’t seem impressed
 
pdxKingsFan

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Prediction update: Keegan Murray finishes second in NBA Rookie of the Year voting… Feels like everybody has crowned Bennedict Mathurin as number two in the race and Walker Kessler as the emerging force for finishing top-three. But Murray should still be in the mix for both of those. He’s been incredible.
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Glad someone somewhere outside of Sac is saying it. Unfortunately a lot of people have Keegan hovering below 5. We know what we have though.
 
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