[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
What did you expect?

They took Bagley because they evaluated Bagley very closely and thought Bagley was the best player (for what it's worth, so did I). From the moment that they took Bagley over Doncic, I could have told you the thought process was substantially what Dave laid out there. So what's the surprise?
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
It's good to see someone holding them accountable! Keep it coming Carmichael Dave!
What, the entire front office who made the decision being replaced doesn't qualify as "holding somebody accountable"? It's not about holding anybody accountable anymore. It's about being able to say you were right, over and over and over, and it has been tiresome for two years. I expect it will be tiresome for about 30 more years, but it is what it is.

Didn't we famously bring none of the top 10 prospects in for workouts that year besides Bagley? Sounds like they made up their mind in January and didn't really bother checking on anyone else.
Ayton refused to work out for anybody but Phoenix. Doncic didn't do workouts at all - he didn't even come to the U.S. (but we did visit him in Europe). Porter was hurt. Young was a poor fit with Fox. I don't know if Jackson worked out with us or not, but he's really the only question mark, and it's possible he declined us as well.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
What did you expect?

They took Bagley because they evaluated Bagley very closely and thought Bagley was the best player (for what it's worth, so did I). From the moment that they took Bagley over Doncic, I could have told you the thought process was substantially what Dave laid out there. So what's the surprise?
Between the hilariously wrong scouting (GOOD PASSER! GREAT LATERAL QUICKNESS!) to the hilarious reasoning “HE JUMPS HIGHER THAN A KNEELESS HARRY GILES!” to the calling and arguing with a radio host who’s rightfully bashing the potential pick, it’s just an utter bleepshow that deserves to get put out there again.

This is a top-3 worst miss ever; the discussion is never going away.
 
What, the entire front office who made the decision being replaced doesn't qualify as "holding somebody accountable"? It's not about holding anybody accountable anymore. It's about being able to say you were right, over and over and over, and it has been tiresome for two years. I expect it will be tiresome for about 30 more years, but it is what it is.



Ayton refused to work out for anybody but Phoenix. Doncic didn't do workouts at all - he didn't even come to the U.S. (but we did visit him in Europe). Porter was hurt. Young was a poor fit with Fox. I don't know if Jackson worked out with us or not, but he's really the only question mark, and it's possible he declined us as well.
Hot take! Kings stay at 9 and draft Jalen Johnson despite the warning signs. He doesnt get another nba contract after his rookie deal expires.
 
What, the entire front office who made the decision being replaced doesn't qualify as "holding somebody accountable"? It's not about holding anybody accountable anymore. It's about being able to say you were right, over and over and over, and it has been tiresome for two years. I expect it will be tiresome for about 30 more years, but it is what it is.

Ayton refused to work out for anybody but Phoenix. Doncic didn't do workouts at all - he didn't even come to the U.S. (but we did visit him in Europe). Porter was hurt. Young was a poor fit with Fox. I don't know if Jackson worked out with us or not, but he's really the only question mark, and it's possible he declined us as well.
I understand that's what you think this is about but from day one we've been sold a line that we need to trust the front office and be patient. Vivek has acted like he's some kind of basketball savant who's smarter than the fanbase and most front offices while everything he's done has shown exactly the opposite. There were some legitimate reasons to value Bagley but that rambling mess of a justification outlined in Carmichael Dave's post is so wrong-headed I hope that person never gets an NBA job again. I don't care how many hours they spent evaluating Bagley because they clearly didn't understand what they were watching. And ultimately somebody has to read this analysis and make a decision to take it seriously or not.

I know that Ayton wouldn't work out with us (nor should he have) and Doncic was busy winning the Euroleague but there's no excuse for failing to bring in Jaren Jackson, Trae Young, Mo Bamba, Colin Sexton, Miles Bridges, Mikal Bridges, Wendell Carter, Kevin Knox, or Shai Gilgeous-Alexander for workouts. They didn't work out anybody for the #2 pick except Bagley. So here we are 3 years later and almost everyone in that top 10 has outperformed Bagley and we're supposed to ignore the fact that they didn't do their homework? It's clear from these notes that the workout was a factor but how can anyone take that report seriously when they didn't even bring in anybody else to compare him to?

They've changed some of the front office, not all of it. The main guy making the decisions is still there. Trying to act like this is all in the past and he's learned his lesson this time is how nothing changes. It's why we've had 5 head coaches and 3 GMs since he took over. No I don't think firing everybody means the right people were held accountable. The rationale used to make the decisions is flawed and needs to be exposed. As a fan of this team of course I'm pissed off that they whiffed on the highest draft pick the franchise has had in the 27 years I've been watching them. How are you not pissed off about it too?
 
Even though I agree with 99% of what you just wrote @hrdboild, and I am pissed... at some point you have to move on for your own mental sanity. I wanted to punch a hole through my dashboard when I heard the pick announced and it became real. This was the biggest layup/no brainer and we airballed it.

And yes, not working out anybody else simply showed that the team put blinders on with the most significant pick we've had in a generation. Considering how awful the 1989 NBA draft turned out in hindsight while the 2018 was projected as one of the best top 5 of the decade, well it shows an absolute unwillingness to do due diligence. The fact that the coach was also overruled shows a FO completely out of sync. And yes, I have lots of problems with Joerger, but why they would ignore the pleadings of the coach to pick the best player in the draft instead of going for fit is beyond me.

Incidentally, I do believe Vivek was talked out of the "correct" pick in this draft by the idiots that are all gone. I still have a lot of questions about Vivek and since we're going into another season with Walton despite the fact that he apparently wants playoffs at all costs, I am completely dumbfounded. But at least we know with some degree of certainty that Vivek's kid was all on the Luka train but apparently dad listened to the smart people in the room.

And while I don't want to defend the pick in any way, I have to at least point out Bagley's biggest issue has been staying healthy and on the floor. And I really don't think anyone could have predicted that was going to be the downfall of this pick. The absolute biggest concern with cutting bait is that he finally stops getting hurt and blows up. Hell we've got a thread about how we should unload Bagley and Buddy AND our #9 to pick a guy who was a nothing in this league for 5 seasons, who played less games than Bagley has his first 3 seasons, who is now suddenly the answer to our problems at the same position. But most people weren't even willing to give Bagley 2-3 years.

So yeah, it was a huge blunder, everyone should be upset the question is how long? Because if its going to be the entirety of Doncic's career in the NBA, may as well pick another sport.
 
Even though I agree with 99% of what you just wrote @hrdboild, and I am pissed... at some point you have to move on for your own mental sanity. I wanted to punch a hole through my dashboard when I heard the pick announced and it became real. This was the biggest layup/no brainer and we airballed it.

And yes, not working out anybody else simply showed that the team put blinders on with the most significant pick we've had in a generation. Considering how awful the 1989 NBA draft turned out in hindsight while the 2018 was projected as one of the best top 5 of the decade, well it shows an absolute unwillingness to do due diligence. The fact that the coach was also overruled shows a FO completely out of sync. And yes, I have lots of problems with Joerger, but why they would ignore the pleadings of the coach to pick the best player in the draft instead of going for fit is beyond me.

Incidentally, I do believe Vivek was talked out of the "correct" pick in this draft by the idiots that are all gone. I still have a lot of questions about Vivek and since we're going into another season with Walton despite the fact that he apparently wants playoffs at all costs, I am completely dumbfounded. But at least we know with some degree of certainty that Vivek's kid was all on the Luka train but apparently dad listened to the smart people in the room.

And while I don't want to defend the pick in any way, I have to at least point out Bagley's biggest issue has been staying healthy and on the floor. And I really don't think anyone could have predicted that was going to be the downfall of this pick. The absolute biggest concern with cutting bait is that he finally stops getting hurt and blows up. Hell we've got a thread about how we should unload Bagley and Buddy AND our #9 to pick a guy who was a nothing in this league for 5 seasons, who played less games than Bagley has his first 3 seasons, who is now suddenly the answer to our problems at the same position. But most people weren't even willing to give Bagley 2-3 years.

So yeah, it was a huge blunder, everyone should be upset the question is how long? Because if its going to be the entirety of Doncic's career in the NBA, may as well pick another sport.
The Kings have made many poor choices with personnel and life goes on. At some point this decision will also be forgotten but that point has not arrived yet for me. When someone makes that big of a mistake they need to wear the shame of it long enough to change their thinking. Forgiveness comes in time but only when there's genuine remorse. The last interview I saw with Vlade he still thinks Marvin was the better pick. I don't think Vivek has said anything publicly about it and the one guy in the organization who openly expressed regret over it (Dave Joerger) was promptly fired.

But more to the point for me is that I don't understand why there's so much hostility directed at the fans for simply pointing out the obvious and attempting to commiserate with each other. 2-3 years is not enough time to fairly evaluate Bagley but it's supposed to be enough time for me to get over the front office passing on drafting a superstar? I don't think it will take me the entirety of Doncic's career to get over it. It's probably going to take at least 1 playoff series win though and I don't think that's unreasonable.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
They've changed some of the front office, not all of it. The main guy making the decisions is still there. Trying to act like this is all in the past and he's learned his lesson this time is how nothing changes.
I'm no fan of Vivek, but to his credit he has certainly taken much more of a backseat on basketball operations than he did when he came in. So, perhaps he has learned a lesson or two.

But the bottom line is, "the main guy" owns the team. He hasn't shown any inclination to sell it. You can't make him sell it by pressuring anybody else - there is nobody left to pressure. He can learn 100 lessons or no lessons for the rest of his life and it's not going to change that. And I can guarantee you he's not going around internet message boards to read fans still yelling at him for a decision made by his basketball people three years ago, basketball people that are no longer with the team largely because of that particular decision.

Vivek is in the position where y'all yelled at him for two years about firing Vlade. Finally, he fired Vlade, and you stopped yelling at him. Oh, no, wait, that's not right. You're still yelling at him. He did what you wanted him to do, and instead of saying thank you and letting bygones be bygones, you keep yelling at him. He knows the game now. You think he hasn't tuned your point of view out? Because it's tuned out, I guarantee it.

I'm pissed off that they whiffed on the highest draft pick the franchise has had in the 27 years I've been watching them. How are you not pissed off about it too?
Because it's over. Because it's over and being pissed would do literally nothing except raise my blood pressure. Because dwelling on the mistakes and failures of the past seems to me to be a sure way to do only one thing: make yourself miserable.

We have De'Aaron Fox. We have Tyrese Haliburton. We have a likely #9 pick this year. We have Marvin Bagley, who despite a worrisome injury history is more talented than people give him credit for (and I think we both know why that is), is still 22 years old and has a lot of room for growth. We have solid vets in Barnes and Hield who can contribute for us now, and may turn into trade assets in the future. We have several interesting young players whose careers will be fun to follow. I guess I'm just wired to focus on what we do have rather than what we don't have. It's not such a bad ride, if you'd care to try it.
 
Not sure how the franchise is supposed to correct what some perceive as a huge blunder (I don't think that's what this was). Fire the guy who made the decision? Done. The best possible outcome after that is for the guy that WAS picked to grow to his highest potential. Driving Bagley out of town fixes nothing. Trading Bagley doesn't get the Kings Doncic in return. So I just don't get why the hostilities towards any Kings players or even current management are as strong as they are.

There are 19 teams without Luka that made the post season. Why is he the only player that Kings fans think has the ability to lead us to the promise land of the 8th seed. Or that it would even been a foregone conclusion with him? There are much more factors at play that have kept this franchise out of the playoffs for 15 years than this one draft pick.
 
I'm no fan of Vivek, but to his credit he has certainly taken much more of a backseat on basketball operations than he did when he came in. So, perhaps he has learned a lesson or two.

But the bottom line is, "the main guy" owns the team. He hasn't shown any inclination to sell it. You can't make him sell it by pressuring anybody else - there is nobody left to pressure. He can learn 100 lessons or no lessons for the rest of his life and it's not going to change that. And I can guarantee you he's not going around internet message boards to read fans still yelling at him for a decision made by his basketball people three years ago, basketball people that are no longer with the team largely because of that particular decision.

Vivek is in the position where y'all yelled at him for two years about firing Vlade. Finally, he fired Vlade, and you stopped yelling at him. Oh, no, wait, that's not right. You're still yelling at him. He did what you wanted him to do, and instead of saying thank you and letting bygones be bygones, you keep yelling at him. He knows the game now. You think he hasn't tuned your point of view out? Because it's tuned out, I guarantee it.



Because it's over. Because it's over and being pissed would do literally nothing except raise my blood pressure. Because dwelling on the mistakes and failures of the past seems to me to be a sure way to do only one thing: make yourself miserable.

We have De'Aaron Fox. We have Tyrese Haliburton. We have a likely #9 pick this year. We have Marvin Bagley, who despite a worrisome injury history is more talented than people give him credit for (and I think we both know why that is), is still 22 years old and has a lot of room for growth. We have solid vets in Barnes and Hield who can contribute for us now, and may turn into trade assets in the future. We have several interesting young players whose careers will be fun to follow. I guess I'm just wired to focus on what we do have rather than what we don't have. It's not such a bad ride, if you'd care to try it.
:D Vivek has never and will never care about my point of view. Of course I know that. Even if I lived in Sacramento and went to every Kings home game he still wouldn't care about my point of view because I mostly keep it to myself. Carmichael Dave raising a stink on social media could get through to him though so I hope he keeps it up. And as long as he's the main guy I don't want him to take a backseat on basketball operations I want him to hire people who know what they're doing and give them the resources necessary to be competitive. I'm hopeful he's done that when he hired Monte McNair but it remains to be seen.

I've also done everything I can to move on. I'm busier these days but I made time to watch a lot of Kings basketball this season anyway and there were plenty of things to be hopeful about. I'll just have to agree to disagree on Bagley who I soured on in college and aside from a few brief moments hasn't shown me a lot of growth since then. I didn't bring up Doncic -- you could probably count on one hand the amount of comments I've made about him on this forum in the last year -- and I'm not watching the playoffs other than checking out box scores and highlights once in awhile. I've never been able to casually watch the playoffs in any sport if I don't have a team to root for. Trust me, the state of the Kings has nothing to do with my mental state whatsoever because I have no say in anything they do.

To answer your original question though, the surprise for me about that post is that they apparently put more effort into trying to control the narrative vis-a-vis persuading Carmichael Dave that they weren't making a terrible mistake than they put into actually scouting the top prospects in the 2018 NBA draft which is shocking for a professional sports franchise whose bottom line is directly tied to their ability to acquire top-end talent to generate interest and raise the value of their product.

With as much time as we spend talking about draft prospects on this forum I'm also surprised the extent to which post-mortem is discouraged. Isn't looking at what you got right and wrong in the past just as important as how you project the latest crop of talent? The way I see it, few fanbases have the acquired knowledge in losing that we have which gives us unique insight into the draft process that fans of lesser teams like the Lakers could only dream of. Sure we could move on and never talk about the past but isn't that a massive missed opportunity? I want Vivek to reckon with the 2018 draft for the same reason I want Kings fans to reckon with that draft and the 10 that came before it. Because there's a mystery to solve here -- how does a franchise like the Kings fail to make the playoffs for 15 years straight in a sport that actively rewards losing? And I like trying to solve mysteries.
 
We have De'Aaron Fox. We have Tyrese Haliburton. We have a likely #9 pick this year. We have Marvin Bagley, who despite a worrisome injury history is more talented than people give him credit for (and I think we both know why that is), is still 22 years old and has a lot of room for growth. We have solid vets in Barnes and Hield who can contribute for us now, and may turn into trade assets in the future. We have several interesting young players whose careers will be fun to follow. I guess I'm just wired to focus on what we do have rather than what we don't have. It's not such a bad ride, if you'd care to try it.
So much this. Which is why I'm dumbfounded we're giving Walton another year. But anyways...

If Bagley can finally stay healthy, which unfortunately seems a rather big if, there is maybe some sunlight at the end of this saga.

And even if we're overpaying for Hield, the guy earned his contract. He had a less than stellar campaign last season, doesn't mean he's done.

Am I sometimes guilty of cheerleading a sinking ship. Goddamnned right I am, because otherwise I just have better stuff to do with my time. I'm not going to let this team make me miserable in any way that is harmful. Which is why I cheap out on league pass and ultimately stop looking for ways to watch every night mid-way through the season the last 2 years.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
I didn't bring up Doncic -- you could probably count on one hand the amount of comments I've made about him on this forum in the last year
Fair enough. Except for those most vocal I don't do a great job of associating positions with posters (too many positions, too many posters). You jumped in on the Doncic thing here and I lumped you in with a group you don't ride with. My bad.

To answer your original question though, the surprise for me about that post is that they apparently put more effort into trying to control the narrative vis-a-vis persuading Carmichael Dave that they weren't making a terrible mistake than they put into actually scouting the top prospects in the 2018 NBA draft which is shocking for a professional sports franchise whose bottom line is directly tied to their ability to acquire top-end talent to generate interest and raise the value of their product.
That seems to be quite the exaggeration. We know Dave was on the radio, complaining about Bagley over Doncic, and he was complaining hard. He has a pretty big megaphone, and the Kings are a franchise who can't really afford to lose fans because their own sports talk radio guys are dissing the team. So an anonymous front office guy calls up CD with a list of reasons why the team made the decision that they did, trying to get CD to back down. Probably took all of ten minutes. I'm pretty sure the front office put about four orders of magnitude more time into scouting the 2018 draft than that.

I don't think that having limited workouts for the #2 slot when most of the players truly in contention for #2 either didn't accept an invite or didn't fit the team reflects on how much effort they put in. I don't think working out Mikal Bridges and Kevin Knox at #2 just to look busy makes any sense if you already know there's no chance you're going to TAKE them at #2. The workout is just the test drive, after all the research has been done. If you've been on the car blogs for months and are deciding between a high-end BMW and a high-end Mercedes, you're not going to test drive a Toyota Camry just in case.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
What did Dave say? The tweet is gone
Evidently after CD spent some radio time getting at the Kings for picking Bagley on draft day, somebody from the front office phoned him to explain the pick. He took notes during the conversation, and he Tweeted the notes. I don't think there was much in them that you haven't already heard or wouldn't have expected to hear from front office personnel defending their decision.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
What did Dave say? The tweet is gone
The discussion was described as “Heated” and the notes of the convo read almost like a parody including just straight up wrong scouting views of Marvin, (they watched every game and came away with him being a good passer (lol), and having great lateral movement). In a follow-up tweet, Dave then said he tried to argue back to the person on the other line Coach K had to change his entire defensive scheme to cover for lack of lateral movement.

Also jumping higher than Harry Giles was listed as a reason for being so absurdly high on him.
 
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Fair enough. Except for those most vocal I don't do a great job of associating positions with posters (too many positions, too many posters). You jumped in on the Doncic thing here and I lumped you in with a group you don't ride with. My bad.

That seems to be quite the exaggeration. We know Dave was on the radio, complaining about Bagley over Doncic, and he was complaining hard. He has a pretty big megaphone, and the Kings are a franchise who can't really afford to lose fans because their own sports talk radio guys are dissing the team. So an anonymous front office guy calls up CD with a list of reasons why the team made the decision that they did, trying to get CD to back down. Probably took all of ten minutes. I'm pretty sure the front office put about four orders of magnitude more time into scouting the 2018 draft than that.

I don't think that having limited workouts for the #2 slot when most of the players truly in contention for #2 either didn't accept an invite or didn't fit the team reflects on how much effort they put in. I don't think working out Mikal Bridges and Kevin Knox at #2 just to look busy makes any sense if you already know there's no chance you're going to TAKE them at #2. The workout is just the test drive, after all the research has been done. If you've been on the car blogs for months and are deciding between a high-end BMW and a high-end Mercedes, you're not going to test drive a Toyota Camry just in case.
This is what I mean about priorities though. However many hypothetical fans they would lose due to Carmichael Dave running his mouth that is nothing compared to how many fans they've lost by mismanaging the team into endless irrelevance. If they just handle their business appropriately it shouldn't matter what anyone says on the radio. Dave would be on board with whatever decision they made if it led to the team winning. I feel like a good number of us are more upset when the local media personalities disingenuously toe the company line regardless of whether they've earned that level of trust or not (they haven't). If they were that certain that Bagley was the right pick, why not just let his play speak for itself?

Sure that was an exaggeration about them spending more effort trying to convince Dave than actually scouting the draft but not by much based on everything that has come out about their evaluation process. They needed to have someone at every one of Doncic's games. They didn't need to work out every player in the top 10 but they did need to work out more than 1 of them. Maybe they would have taken a beating in the press if they picked say Miles Bridges or Colin Sexton at #2 instead of one of the consensus top 3 guys but who cares about that? Mock drafts are always wrong. Franchise talents get passed over and can't miss prospects bust pretty much every year. That's why you look at everybody multiple times. Get the pick right and the fans will eventually get on board.

To borrow your analogy, maybe what you ultimately need isn't the BMW, the Mercedes, or the Camry but some other car you would have liked better than all 3 if you'd expanded your field of view enough to consider it. It's not even a black and white thing with me. They've missed on multiple players every year. It'd be nice if they managed to just get a top 5 player from the draft (like Haliburton last year and Fox in 2017) cause adding a player like that at least gives us some reason to continue hoping that a brighter future is coming.
 
It'd be nice if they managed to just get a top 5 player from the draft (like Haliburton last year and Fox in 2017) cause adding a player like that at least gives us some reason to continue hoping that a brighter future is coming.
This is where I think the issue lies, there's no reason that even if let's say Doncic is a first ballot hall of famer and wins 9 rings (I doubt he will do the latter in Dallas but hey let's reach for the stars here) that Bagley still can't wind up being a top 3 pick from that draft, IF he stays healthy and we put him in the position to succeed.

The biggest barrier to his success, besides injuries, is that in at least 2 of his 3 seasons, the #1 goal was playoffs/win games at all costs, including developing the guy you just bet the farm on. The coach has almost always been on the hotseat, so hasn't exactly had the luxury of trying to get Bagley

ALL OF THAT OF COURSE WAS ALWAYS THE #1 ARGUMENT WHY YOU GO WITH THE 5 YEAR PRO READY FOR NBA ON DAY ONE NO DEVELOPMENT NEEDED PLAYER BANGS HEAD AGAINST THE WALL ARRRRGGGGH NOW I'M DOING IT!!!!

but hey. we really do need to separate how we move forward from what we passed up because we still have a young player that has far more potential than many want to give him any credit for but he needs to be put in position to reach it.
 
This is where I think the issue lies, there's no reason that even if let's say Doncic is a first ballot hall of famer and wins 9 rings (I doubt he will do the latter in Dallas but hey let's reach for the stars here) that Bagley still can't wind up being a top 3 pick from that draft, IF he stays healthy and we put him in the position to succeed.

The biggest barrier to his success, besides injuries, is that in at least 2 of his 3 seasons, the #1 goal was playoffs/win games at all costs, including developing the guy you just bet the farm on. The coach has almost always been on the hotseat, so hasn't exactly had the luxury of trying to get Bagley

ALL OF THAT OF COURSE WAS ALWAYS THE #1 ARGUMENT WHY YOU GO WITH THE 5 YEAR PRO READY FOR NBA ON DAY ONE NO DEVELOPMENT NEEDED PLAYER BANGS HEAD AGAINST THE WALL ARRRRGGGGH NOW I'M DOING IT!!!!

but hey. we really do need to separate how we move forward from what we passed up because we still have a young player that has far more potential than many want to give him any credit for but he needs to be put in position to reach it.
I agree that it's too early to write Bagley off as a bust. He's shown flashes and he's only 22. It's also clear that coaching and injuries have played a role in his stalled development. On the other hand, he is three years into his NBA career now and if you compare his three seasons the only area he's shown any measurable improvement is 3pt shooting. At this point his growth curve is going to have to take an irregular jump for him to ascend to star status. It could happen, but it would be a statistical anomaly if it did. Also, we're bringing back Luke Walton next season and the new front office is somehow still talking playoffs coming off a season where we couldn't even make an expanded 20 team playoff. So for next season at least the deck is going to be stacked against him. The most we seem capable of year to year is incremental improvement and that just doesn't cut it in the Western Conference.

I was optimistic about this team 3 months ago but that was before a 9 game losing streak followed by a flurry of pointless late season winning landed us in a 3 way tie with the last teams to get eliminated from the playoffs and Luke Walton was bafflingly given the vote of confidence for next season anyway. As a result of those two developments and the way this team played after the trade deadline I have less confidence in this team going into the new season than I've had at any point in the last 10 years. If we trade our lotto pick in the 2021 draft I'll probably just spare myself the anguish of watching any Kings basketball in 2022. If we don't hit a home run in the draft this year and/or lure an elite coach to turn this around we're probably going to be talking about trading Fox for draft picks in about 4 years. The NBA is ruthless to teams who can't honestly evaluate their own situation and act accordingly. Maybe my lack of optimism is out of fashion around here with the last of the diehards but y'all have to admit, the pessimists are batting 1.000 in Kingsfan-land for the last decade plus.
 
I agree that it's too early to write Bagley off as a bust. He's shown flashes and he's only 22. It's also clear that coaching and injuries have played a role in his stalled development. On the other hand, he is three years into his NBA career now and if you compare his three seasons the only area he's shown any measurable improvement is 3pt shooting. At this point his growth curve is going to have to take an irregular jump for him to ascend to star status. It could happen, but it would be a statistical anomaly if it did. Also, we're bringing back Luke Walton next season and the new front office is somehow still talking playoffs coming off a season where we couldn't even make an expanded 20 team playoff. So for next season at least the deck is going to be stacked against him. The most we seem capable of year to year is incremental improvement and that just doesn't cut it in the Western Conference.

I was optimistic about this team 3 months ago but that was before a 9 game losing streak followed by a flurry of pointless late season winning landed us in a 3 way tie with the last teams to get eliminated from the playoffs and Luke Walton was bafflingly given the vote of confidence for next season anyway. As a result of those two developments and the way this team played after the trade deadline I have less confidence in this team going into the new season than I've had at any point in the last 10 years. If we trade our lotto pick in the 2021 draft I'll probably just spare myself the anguish of watching any Kings basketball in 2022. If we don't hit a home run in the draft this year and/or lure an elite coach to turn this around we're probably going to be talking about trading Fox for draft picks in about 4 years. The NBA is ruthless to teams who can't honestly evaluate their own situation and act accordingly. Maybe my lack of optimism is out of fashion around here with the last of the diehards but y'all have to admit, the pessimists are batting 1.000 in Kingsfan-land for the last decade plus.
Retaining Luke has pretty much given me no hopeful outlook for 21-22. We went all in on playoffs (or play in, with it's very low barrier to entry) and failed. We have gotten worse. I'm not sure how he helps us evaluate how to move forward or fit Bagley in when he is going to be in job protection mode on top of make the playoffs mode. This is nuts. I feel so bad for people with season tickets that have no hope in sight.