Kings coaching prospects (Merged)

[Kings113]

I still quite like Mario Elie... especially after watching the Spurs 1999 documentary.

 

[D-Mass]

I was thinking assistants eg PJC or Terry Porter

gotcha...makes sense!

 

[Bricklayer]

Larry Brown terrifies me, because he is exactly the sort of turd the Maloofs might go for on name value, and he could really **** things up.

I'm in NY, the job he did here this year -- it was beyond awful. He absolutely ripped apart the team with his insufferable ego. Used dozens of different starting lineups. Bashed players in the media, benched guys who were starting, started 12th men, yanked minutes all over the place, got into public spt with player after player, whined and bitched to the media -- it might have been, no exaggerating, the single most disastrous job of "coaching" I have ever seen in the NBA.

Larry Brown brings name recognition, defensive focus, and the proven ability to coach into the playoffs. Sometimes.

But Larry Brown also brings whiny manipulatrive bull****, media bashing, power plays, and the ability to undermine both his players and his GM. There is simply not enough room in a franchise for any ego but Larry's. Maybe it works, but if it doesn't, Larry has the potential to alienate and cause chaos on his own team, chase Petrie out of town, and then preen and strut his own way onto the next destination in a couple of years leaving behind a mess. The Pistons let him go after a couple of years that would otherwise be deemed damn successful for one reason -- he's an insufferable egomanical *******. The Knicks are trying to let him go for the same reason. No matter what his name is, when a coach gets let go by one of the best teams, and then one of the worst (thanks to him) in back to back years, amidst all kinds of drama and controversy, you better stand up and take notice.

 

[Kings113]

Indeed Brick, almost everyday it was something going on in the media with Brown.

I'm mixed on him coming to Sac.

 

[Padrino]

i'm also very mixed on bringing brown in. i don't think he would necessarily have the problems in sac that he did in new york. i think artest would respond to his defense-first approach, but i don't know how well their egos would mix. bonzi would probably also respond well to brown's hard-nosed style, and there are enough veterans on the kings to ease brown's mind when it comes to rotations, but i'd also be afraid of kevin martin and/or francisco garcia taking steps back under brown because of his coaching style. brown is a great teacher of the game, but it could go 50/50 in sac. it could be a disaster, though i can't see it going as bad as it has in new york. it could also be genius, if brown decides to actually coach properly next season.

i've always found brown to be highly overrated, and while i wouldn't be entirely opposed to him coming to sac, he does frighten me. he's as volatile--if not more so--than ron artest. he'll assert his willpower on the franchise in a manner much more aggressive than, for example, the way the maloofs took the reigns this season. if everything doesn't pass his inspection, there's gonna be a lotta tension. the more i think about it, the more likely it seems (even though he hasn't actually been fired yet in new york), and the more scared it makes me.

if larry brown does waltz into town, people are going to begin to miss adelman's quiet and reserved demeanor, that much i can guarantee.

 

[BigWaxer]

Well lets go to the stats and see. Hard to negate 24 years worth of success at the pro level and his success of a 177-61 record at the college level.

The Good:
Larry Brown - 24 Years 8 teams(this part is the bad)
Regular Season W/L 1010/800 .589 win %
Playoffs W/L 100/89 .529 win%
Out of 24 years only 4 were losing seasons.

One more interesting note:
The eight different pro teams that Brown coached prior to coming to New York averaged an improvement of 8.9 wins over the season prior to his arrival.

He also won at the NCAA level with 1 championship and another title game appearence.

Known for being a "teacher" "densive minded" and a "motivator"

The Bad:
Will criticize/bash players in the media
Has clashed with certain types of players (see below - he will not clash with Ron)
Longest stint was Philly for 6 years but avg is 3
Latest season (knicks) was a complete debacle
Wants to be in control of everything.

The Middle:
Loves himself and the media - That doesn't bother me if he keeps players names out of it.
2 of his 4 loosing seasons were in the first year 2 were in the last year at a team.

Personal opinions aside that is one HELL of a resume. Actually think RA will have a similar one at the same point in his career if he chooses to coach 24 years.

My opinion on RON - Bonzi. Larry has always had problems with STAR players that had poor work ethics. He is known for loving players that work hard and practice even harder. Ron Ron is KNOWN for working hard, working late after practices on his game. He rewards players that work hard and we have a lot of them, Ron, Bonzi, Martin...(hmm wonder if he could turn Brad back to the old diving everywhere crazy Brad) Larry has also openly expressed love for Bibby on more then one occasion and as recently as the prior season with Detriot. When Bibby was asked why he played Defense for Larry for the olympic team the quote from Mike was "BECAUSE HE DEMANDS IT"

I have openly and always said I like Larry a LOT. He is a proven winner, but he is also a proven EGO maniac. Not sure he is the right coach for us and I don't like the fact he would most likely be here for only a few years. I don't see it turning into a disaster if he does come here and considering who is out there, he by far has one of the most impressive resumes. He is exactly the splash both local and national that the Maloofs are looking for. Talk about changing the subject on RA in an instant. That will be an after thought if Larry comes to town.

The Knicks sucked the year before and sucked even worse last year. MBury has just as big an ego as Larry. Other recent player clashes are the well known AI clash. Again someone that didn't want to "practice" which of course yeilded another classic all time quote.

Conspiracy theory time: Very odd that NY would pay 40mil to get rid of him. but that may also tell you something else. To me LB is not a NY guy and everyone knew ahead of time that was going to be a bad situation for him.

I would assume Larry is going to command Phil Jackson type money. Well he is going to be about 40mil heavier in the wallet, maybe he will take less.

 

[nbrans]

Larry Brown terrifies me, because he is exactly the sort of turd the Maloofs might go for on name value, and he could really **** things up.

I'm in NY, the job he did here this year -- it was beyond awful. He absolutely ripped apart the team with his insufferable ego. Used dozens of different starting lineups. Bashed players in the media, benched guys who were starting, started 12th men, yanked minutes all over the place, got into public spt with player after player, whined and bitched to the media -- it might have been, no exaggerating, the single most disastrous job of "coaching" I have ever seen in the NBA.

Larry Brown brings name recognition, defensive focus, and the proven ability to coach into the playoffs. Sometimes.

But Larry Brown also brings whiny manipulatrive bull****, media bashing, power plays, and the ability to undermine both his players and his GM. There is simply not enough room in a franchise for any ego but Larry's. Maybe it works, but if it doesn't, Larry has the potential to alienate and cause chaos on his own team, chase Petrie out of town, and then preen and strut his own way onto the next destination in a couple of years leaving behind a mess. The Pistons let him go after a couple of years that would otherwise be deemed damn successful for one reason -- he's an insufferable egomanical *******. The Knicks are trying to let him go for the same reason. No matter what his name is, when a coach gets let go by one of the best teams, and then one of the worst (thanks to him) in back to back years, amidst all kinds of drama and controversy, you better stand up and take notice.

I agree 110%.

And yet.... I find myself talking myself into LB. Maybe Artest will respect him because of his success and "genius" reputation... Maybe he'll get Bibby and Miller to play defense...

It's amazing how a lack of coaching options will mess with your head. I hate the guy. And yet there's not much better out there.

 

[stevetaebo]

I dont think anyone could have won with that NY Knick Team especially with the electron microscope known as the NY media. With the foundation Layden/Zeke put up, that house of cards would have fallen(or stay fallen) regardless of who was coaching it.

With that said though,I think LB still has the ability to thrive even if it is for 1-2 years. He has the Bill Parcells type of infusion to make good teams great. I think the man has a record here that speaks for itself.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I think we probably have our new coach ladies and gents...and his name is of course, Larry Brown. Once I heard last night that he was getting bought out, I said...'Done deal, he's coming here'. Lets just hope he has one more title run in him, and isnt too old or tired.

 

[Bricklayer]

I dont think anyone could have won with that NY Knick Team especially with the electron microscope known as the NY media. With the foundation Layden/Zeke put up, that house of cards would have fallen(or stay fallen) regardless of who was coaching it.

With that said though,I think LB still has the ability to thrive even if it is for 1-2 years. He has the Bill Parcells type of infusion to make good teams great. I think the man has a record here that speaks for itself.

Oh no, that was the worst part -- this years team was clearly BETTER than the one last year, which was coached by nobody, and then your wonderful "HOF coach" comes in and just obliterates it. The man should just be shot, not given another job. But not the way it works when you've got a name. If he comes just hope he doesn't turn out to be Dick Motta II (Dick had also won a title and was a "name coach" before we hired him).

 

[BigWaxer]

Clearly better? on what paper?

We were CLEARLY better at the start of this season then last and we saw what happened. ?????? Your a stats man prove it to me because personal likes/dislikes does not make LB a bad coach.

Knicks previous years - Hardly a team "CLEARLY" on the "RISE"
23-59 05-06
33-49 04-05
39-43 03-04
37-45 02-03
30-52 01-02


So a coach on a bad team does a bad job and there is no argueing that he did do a horrible job this year. LB was brought in to win but given his past history I think 1 year is not long enough to give LB to work when given a bad team. This year he was horrible no doubt.

For every Motta story there is also a success story. I would have to dig but I can find them

As many difficult players that you say he has clashed with I can name far more difficult players that he has got along with and helped bring their careers to another level.

If I see a Ron/Larry clash its going to be practice. It was reported before the trade that Ron on a regular basis clashed with Carlise because he didn't want to practice D all the time.

 

[Kings113]

think he meant at the start of the season or the roster they had. It just didn't fit brown, and the roster had flaws itself.

c1985, I wouldn't be too surprised if you're right.

 

[bozzwell]

LB after Rick would be some "change of direction". As much as I can't stand insufferable, whiny little ***** that is LB I'd give him a chance. Our team, with minor tweaks would be much more of an LB team than Zeke's NYN could ever be. If he stays the right side of Ron-Ron we could even return to Rick years - 55 wins, WCF berth?

But if you're really talking about taking risks, as in mortgaging your whole franchise on a roll of dice, then LB is clearly your man: you can win or lose everything in the record time. He could kill the franchise, but he could get us to beat SA/Suns and Dallas, too.

Win or lose, I'd still love the Kings and _still_ hate LB's guts.

 

[Viking]

Larry Brown terrifies me, because he is exactly the sort of turd the Maloofs might go for on name value, and he could really **** things up.

Hello signature.

For the record, I'd love the Kings if Larry Brown, or even a blind, deaf, incapacitated giraffe for that matter, were coaching the kings.

I just don't like Brown's style.

 

[BigWaxer]

I know and like I said we were better also. Most were predicting us to finish at the top of our division. So does that make RA a bad coach? I think most of us knew it wasn't RA but the players/mix of players we had didn't work.

I will agree that Larry was "part" of the problem I won't dispute that.

Like RON people have strong feelings about Larry. On Ron I was mixed but leaning towards mostly bad feelings about him. I have very strong pro feelings for Larry as he is one of the few coaches I have followed since I started watching the NBA. And all I have seen is a coach that wins (when given more then 1 year) every where he has been. Undisputed fact

To be fair I will add he has usually left every stop on bad terms. Which I acknowledge is one of the knocks on him. To me, short term its worth the risk but I go in knowing long term 4 years from now we are going to be addressing the coaching issue again.

 

[stevetaebo]

LB was brought in to win but given his past history I think 1 year is not long enough to give LB to work when given a bad team. .

Exactly, it was only a 1 season. It's hard to realize that one season ago, LB was a couple robert horry shots away from winning his 2nd consecutive title. I dont think it would be fair to criticize him and say he's lost his marbles and doesn't have it anymore. I dont think he's a Dick Motta/Lenny Wilkins since his only bad season was last year on one of the most hardest places to coach in the NBA.

 

[BigWaxer]

Well he has had 4 bad losing seasons in 24 years so last year was not his only one. There are others I could point to also were they had winning records but didn't perform to expectations. Usually this was the last year he was at a team

I seen you mentioned Parcells and if there is any coach similar to Larry Brown that is the one. Same SAME exact superego, inability to stay at one place, clashes with strong ego players but is known for similar things. Like LB he wants people that work hard and All he does is win, granted he is having a harder time at it right now in Dallas but jury is still out.

 

[rings4Kings]

I think one of the biggest concerns about LB has to be his health, is he going to be able to coach a complete season? Another thing to consider is if he doesn't win a championship in the next year or two, would we look back and wish we went a different direction? Knowing that he will only be here for a short period of time, he may be a good bridge between the present and the future. I'm definitely leaning towards LB (if he is in fact available), but I just wish a long term option was out there. The one thing this team needs at this point is some stability (and a center who can rebound!).

 

[Padrino]

as interesting as all this talk has become...we should probably stall this conversation and store it for another date. LB hasn't been bought out by the knicks yet, and it is unclear as to whether or not he would want another job immediately after such an embarassing season. maybe he takes a year off and hangs out in hawaii a la don nelson. he does have health issues. maybe he'd like to take enough time off to continue to resolve them (while still earning a fat paycheck, i might add).

i do agree, though, that if he were in fact available, he would be the guy that the maloofs pursue the most. the maloofs would throw everything they've got to get larry brown in sacramento. he's the defensive teacher that they want. he's a big name. a ron/brown pairing would attract further national spotlight. he's their man......if he's available.

 

[SacKings384]

Larry Brown and Ron Artest will NOT get along.

 

[Fillmoe]

LB is not the coach for the Kings! he doesnt like playing young kids and criticizes his players in the media..... thats not gonna work out too good with Ron Artest on the team.....

 

[thenbakings]

Larry Brown would destroy this team. He has always had conflicts with his players. He would not be good for Artest. That would probably set him off. Please no LB!

 

[Viking]

he doesnt like playing young kids

I hadn't thought about this but it is true... Just imagine all of Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia's progress going down the drain

 

[Kings113]

Larry Brown and Ron Artest will NOT get along.

Yeah, a lot are saying this - but not why. Because of 3-4 questionable/forced shots in games (not in every one)? Both are defensive-minded, and Ron hasn't been a wild child for a year and a half (off and on the court). I don't consider the trade demand crazy based on the reasons and situation, and the little elbow on Manu is nothing that hasn't been seen before. Brown also had Rasheed Wallace on his team.

I think it'd be alright.

 

[Bricklayer]

I know and like I said we were better also. Most were predicting us to finish at the top of our division. So does that make RA a bad coach? I think most of us knew it wasn't RA but the players/mix of players we had didn't work.

I will agree that Larry was "part" of the problem I won't dispute that.

Like RON people have strong feelings about Larry. On Ron I was mixed but leaning towards mostly bad feelings about him. I have very strong pro feelings for Larry as he is one of the few coaches I have followed since I started watching the NBA. And all I have seen is a coach that wins (when given more then 1 year) every where he has been. Undisputed fact

To be fair I will add he has usually left every stop on bad terms. Which I acknowledge is one of the knocks on him. To me, short term its worth the risk but I go in knowing long term 4 years from now we are going to be addressing the coaching issue again.

Before being handed a largely prebuilt Detroit team, he was also the guy you hired to make a bad team good, but never a good team great. Better at building than closing the deal. And almost as good at bleeding the franchises he was in control of of talent, especially young talent, as he was at winning. The ultimate old roleplayer = better than young talent coach.

If he comes...well, you can't jump up and down in protest ebcause he is one of the few coaches who can match or exceed Rick's record. But people are increasingly fed up with his ****, he's getting older, crankier, even more full of himself, and its not a no brainer. There are significant risks.

 

[SacTownKid]

Larry Brown terrifies me, because he is exactly the sort of turd the Maloofs might go for on name value, and he could really **** things up.

I'm in NY, the job he did here this year -- it was beyond awful. He absolutely ripped apart the team with his insufferable ego. Used dozens of different starting lineups. Bashed players in the media, benched guys who were starting, started 12th men, yanked minutes all over the place, got into public spt with player after player, whined and bitched to the media -- it might have been, no exaggerating, the single most disastrous job of "coaching" I have ever seen in the NBA.

Larry Brown brings name recognition, defensive focus, and the proven ability to coach into the playoffs. Sometimes.

But Larry Brown also brings whiny manipulatrive bull****, media bashing, power plays, and the ability to undermine both his players and his GM. There is simply not enough room in a franchise for any ego but Larry's. Maybe it works, but if it doesn't, Larry has the potential to alienate and cause chaos on his own team, chase Petrie out of town, and then preen and strut his own way onto the next destination in a couple of years leaving behind a mess. The Pistons let him go after a couple of years that would otherwise be deemed damn successful for one reason -- he's an insufferable egomanical *******. The Knicks are trying to let him go for the same reason. No matter what his name is, when a coach gets let go by one of the best teams, and then one of the worst (thanks to him) in back to back years, amidst all kinds of drama and controversy, you better stand up and take notice.

In order to rip apart a team there has to have been one there in the first place. I personally don't see LB being bought out this summer, maybe next year if they struggle, but I heard that Thomas just isn't bringing in those LB type of players. There are plenty here, he loves Bibby, would love Artest and Bonzi, Brad would be as good as gone.

I think it would be very interesting to see LB as the coach, he is obviously one of the few guys that you could replace Adelman with who is more defensive minded and has a better resume.

Might be worth it to see Bibby called out by the coach for his bad D on some nights.

 

[Bricklayer]

In order to rip apart a team there has to have been one there in the first place. I personally don't see LB being bought out this summer, maybe next year if they struggle, but I heard that Thomas just isn't bringing in those LB type of players. There are plenty here, he loves Bibby, would love Artest and Bonzi, Brad would be as good as gone.

Took a bad situation and made it much much worse. Its hard to even describe how ugly it got for people not in the NY area. Roster was clearly upgraded, but from the very beginning of the season Larry did the "me" thing and within 3 months it was absolutely embarrassing. Not only bad, but not even really a team. Sabotaged, IMHO almost on purpose, by their own coach. I've seen this play out first hand (well, in the city), and am completely uninterested in seeing a replay in Sacto.

BTW, Ron/Larry would be questionable. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Remember, Larry was NOT amused by the brawl and is big into his players being quiet humble pros (as opposed to Larry himself). Larry and Bibby would probably not last -- Larry has spent his entire career lusitng for what he does not have, but in the end a shooting PG who doesn't play defense is complete anathema for Larry.

The kids would be in real danger -- anyone see what Larry did to Okur and Darko in Detroit? How he jerked around and ultimately lost the Knicks rooks? Kevin might, MIGHT have established himself enough to be entitled to a little respect. But you think Rick is bad wiht young players, wait till you get a load of Larry, who not only hates playing them, but seems to delight in crushing their confidence along the way.

The Petrie/Maloofs power relationship would also get a major test, maybe its final test, because just as he's done in every stop, Larry would start trying to muscle into the front office decisions. Want his guys, try to reduce Geoff to a service provider for Larry's wants. And Larry's wants are often quite stupid over time to -- trading away young talent for old creaky vets, getting disappointed with them, and bringing inthe next set of creakky vets. And if Larry is hired, he'll be the Maloof's guy. The question is not if, but when he tries to go over Geoff's head, and how the Maloofs will respond. And of course how Geoff will respond to being caught in the middle of all the egos.

 

[zeke04]

Brick do you think Brown is a bad coach or just not a good fit for the kings?

 

[Sirius]

I look at it this way...who is available out there that's as qualified as Brown? I can't think of anyone, except maybe the guy the Maloofs fired...

 

[SacKings384]

Took a bad situationa nd made it much much worse. Its hard to even describe how ugly it got for people not in the NY area. Roster was clearly upgraded, but from the very beginning of the season Larry did the "me" thing and within 3 months it was absolutely embarrassing. Not only bad, but not even really a team. Sabotaged, IMHO almost on purpose, by their own coach.

Exactly, Larry Brown was in the media and in the eyes of the people "The Savior" He left the Pistons, because he had made his mark, gotten all of the gratification, and now he moves on to "save another team with his genious" When he realized he couldn't pull it off, he was the first person to point the finger at his players. Sort of as a "Don't blame me, it's their fault" By doing that, you lose the respect of your players. He wanted all the credit if they won, but none of the blame if they lost (which they did). Sorry, Larry Brown would NOT be a good fit here in Sacramento. Him and Ron will bump heads just like Ron and Carlile did in Indiana. Brad will probably not take too kindly to what will probably be public criticism for his lack of conditioning. But unfrotunately if Larry is available, the Maloofs will undoubtedly be ooh'd and ah'd by the big name, instead of really analyzing how good of a fit he is. Not only that, but Larry will NOT come cheap. Even though it doesn't count against the cap, it's still a huge chunk that the Maloofs might not want to spend elsewhere.