Kings @ Clippers Game Thread

[VF21]

Good call. If we had inserted the 5 bench enders when the team fell asleep, maybe the message would have been received by the starters. One thing is sure, the result wouldn't have been any worse.

yeah, because everyone knows the best way to get a bunch of guys with egos the size of Texas to play together is to bench them for scrubs when they aren't even being given enough court time together to establish anything even remotely resembling a cohesive team chemistry.

It's the ridiculous substitutions, IMHO, and total lack of any kind of appearance of confidence in the team OR the players that is killing us right now... It won't get better if you just add more inconsistency to the mix.

 

[DaMan]

They are all to blame. This isn't ALL the players fault...or just ALL the coaching staff. Musselman coached the same way in GS.

It's a combo of everything, IMO.

That said, these aren't 12 year old's playing in a rec league. If they can't play with desire, then get some guys that can. These guys take for granted they're in the league...as if they're owed something. You take guys like Ronnie Price, Matt Barnes, Mo Evans, Singelton, etc...and they will lay it on the floor, no matter their coach...every, single, night.

They're hungry. I can't say the same for most of the guys on our roster...which is really sad to me.

I have to agree with u, we can't put all the blame on Muss. I put the blame on everybody frome the owners, the GM, the coach, and the players. The team is just awful and you can't put the blame on just one person.

 

[DaMan]

I like how people used to blame RA for not playing the bench and now people are blameing Muss for playing the bench.

 

[most_casual_observer]

I guess we're gonna be stuck to agree to disagree...I just can't agree to that.

You play every down/play/at-bat like it's your last.

I have no problem losing.

I do have a problem when it looks like their is a lack of desire.

Watching us win 19 games a year was okay...because they tried. They sucked, but, they tried (for the most part). I just don't get that sense with this group, and haven't for a while (even with Adelman running the ship during his last season or so).

Well said Zeke. I have been thinking the same thing all year. I would follow this team without complaint if they lost every game, as long as they showed some smarts and heart while losing. That isn't too much to ask in the pro game, is it? Many high school teams play with more savvy than we've been showing. It is a travesty.

 

[kennadog]

I have to agree with u, we can't put all the blame on Muss. I put the blame on everybody frome the owners, the GM, the coach, and the players. The team is just awful and you can't put the blame on just one person.

Why not? There were an awful lot of people here that thought Adelman was most of the problem.

 

[LMM]

I have to agree with u, we can't put all the blame on Muss. I put the blame on everybody frome the owners, the GM, the coach, and the players. The team is just awful and you can't put the blame on just one person.

If you're talking the whole season, then of course everyone is to blame. You definitely can't just blame one person.

The gripe with Muss is that he can't establish any sort of chemistry on the court because he's so inconsistent with his substitutions and such. I mean, whatever happened to Price? I seriously doubt getting Douby 3 minutes a game can really do much.

Artest has had nights of awful shot selection, off-court drama, etc.

Bibby's shot, until recently, was missing.

Etc.

Everyone on the team has flaws. Can't blame Muss alone, but his coaching is definitely part of the problem.

 

[ezekielbear]

I don't mind losing. It happens. Sometimes, a lot.

But, I just can't accept getting out hustled, out worked, and out desired.

There are going to be teams and players better then you...but...you still go out there, and go punch for punch with them. That's all most of us ask.

 

[fnordius]

I like how people used to blame RA for not playing the bench and now people are blameing Muss for playing the bench.

But Muss doesn't play the bench like most coaches do, he plays them like Russian Roulette.

 

[most_casual_observer]

yeah, because everyone knows the best way to get a bunch of guys with egos the size of Texas to play together is to bench them for scrubs when they aren't even being given enough court time together to establish anything even remotely resembling a cohesive team chemistry.

It's the ridiculous substitutions, IMHO, and total lack of any kind of appearance of confidence in the team OR the players that is killing us right now... It won't get better if you just add more inconsistency to the mix.

You are probably right, VF1, after all you have over 38,000 posts.

I think I may have expressed my intent better by saying Muss needs to take charge, similar to what you have been saying. If Muss can't run the team according to a decent plan, then he is the coach in name only and should leave soon.

 

[kennadog]

Watching us win 19 games a year was okay...because they tried. They sucked, but, they tried (for the most part). I just don't get that sense with this group, and haven't for a while (even with Adelman running the ship during his last season or so).

I think that's a bit romanticized. Are you talking about the teams that used to welcome new Kings players to NBA hell? It was easier to watch, at least in part, because we didn't expect as much. Makes it a lot easier to watch a sucky team.

 

[ezekielbear]

Musselman has always coached this way. He had 8 guys (7 really, but, would have been 8 if not for Speedy's injury) that played in almost all 82 games his first season with the Warriors.

Then had 2-3 that played in about half (say like our Douby/Hart etc roto's)

 

[creAtivetfh]

expectations are a *****

 

[ezekielbear]

I think that's a bit romanticized. Are you talking about the teams that used to welcome new Kings players to NBA hell? It was easier to watch, at least in part, because we didn't expect as much. Makes it a lot easier to watch a sucky team.

I never questioned Waymen, Spud, or Mitch's desire...

They gave it what they had...losing 55 a year or not.

 

[DaMan]

Why not? There were an awful lot of people here that thought Adelman was most of the problem.

I didn't think RA was the whole problem last year, as with muss i think he was part of the problem and needed to go. The difference between RA and Muss is that RA actually had a set rotation and gameplan unlike Muss.

 

[DaMan]

expectations are a *****

I just depends on what your expections where.

 

[VF21]

Musselman has always coached this way. He had 8 guys (7 really, but, would have been 8 if not for Speedy's injury) that played in almost all 82 games his first season with the Warriors.

Then had 2-3 that played in about half (say like our Douby/Hart etc roto's)

that's not the point at all. The point isn't how many players he uses, it's when and how he makes the substitutions. We used Bibby, Martin, Artest, KT, Miller, SAR, Corliss, Cisco, Douby and Salmons tonight. That's 10 players. We didn't use Hart, who may never see court time again after his ill-advised last nano-second three against the Sixers. We didn't see Price who has apparently fallen out of favor for some reason.

So again, it's not about his rotations as much as the total lack of anything even remotely resembling some kind of plan in who he substitutes and when.

 

[kennadog]

I didn't think RA was the whole problem last year, as with muss i think he was part of the problem and needed to go. The difference between RA and Muss is that RA actually had a set rotation and gameplan unlike Muss.

I think most underestimated Adelman's talent for managing people. And that's a huge part of being a successful leader or coach.

 

[kennadog]

that's not the point at all. The point isn't how many players he uses, it's when and how he makes the substitutions. We used Bibby, Martin, Artest, KT, Miller, SAR, Corliss, Cisco, Douby and Salmons tonight. That's 10 players. We didn't use Hart, who may never see court time again after his ill-advised last nano-second three against the Sixers. We didn't see Price who has apparently fallen out of favor for some reason.

So again, it's not about his rotations as much as the total lack of anything even remotely resembling some kind of plan in who he substitutes and when.

Exactly. I don't care if he plays everyone, if it looks well thought out and organized. I get the feeling sometimes that Muss is just making substitutions as a form of grasping at straws.

 

[DaMan]

I think most underestimated Adelman's talent for managing people. And that's a huge part of being a successful leader or coach.

True he was great at managing people such as artest and Bonzi but he was not doing to well until artest came to town.

 

[kennadog]

True he was great at managing people such as artest and Bonzi but he was not doing to well until artest came to town.

Agreed. But Muss has Artest. And Kevin's been pretty good in place of Bonzi. I don't think Muss has a whole lot less talent than RA ended last season with.

On the other hand, Muss is brand new here. Believe it or not, I'm not going to start a "fire Musselman" thread. But the guy just looks clueless and looks like he gives up. I am not happy with that.

 

[ezekielbear]

So again, it's not about his rotations as much as the total lack of anything even remotely resembling some kind of plan in who he substitutes and when.

I think you missed what I was trying to say.

He had his core of 7-8 guys that played in all games, and had a mess of other reserves who played for no given reason.

He coached very similar in GS in terms of roto's and his randomness.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And, unless I'm mistaken, he lost coaching like that in Oakland, too.

What's that definition of crazy? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?

 

[kennadog]

And, unless I'm mistaken, he lost coaching like that in Oakland, too.

What's that definition of crazy? Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?

Its either the definition of crazy or stupid.

 

[gofastws99]

I didn't think RA was the whole problem last year, as with muss i think he was part of the problem and needed to go. The difference between RA and Muss is that RA actually had a set rotation and gameplan unlike Muss.

Yes but RA sometimes used his set rotation and game plan to completly run us out of a game. No rotation or subs, even when guys were wore out. Muss messes up, but to me he is trying to see who fits with who and can play together. Doesn't have alot to play with. Sometimes it fits sometimes it don't. I do agree on his setting there with his head down when he should be chewin on someones a!@. Not good.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Its either the definition of crazy or stupid.

It's the definition of foolishness, actually.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

We didn't use Hart, who may never see court time again after his ill-advised last nano-second

Wow, that's pretty crazy. What happened?

 

[VF21]

There were about 12 seconds left in the game against the Sixers when the Kings inbounded. Hart got the ball to walk out the end of the game. The score was 98-76. As the clock wound down, Hart turned and just before the buzzer shot and made a three-point shot. His own teammates glared at him... having been on the receiving end of something like that not too long ago.