[Game] Kings @ Bulls - Friday, Dec. 1 - 5 PT

#67
ZBo has a serious vendetta against the Lopez twins my lord his stats against them are god mode. Loved watching WCS flying around patrolling the skies on D and making some nifty passes on offense (Stacy King was having Grant Napear type orgasms over his athletic ability).

Bogie off the bench was terrific really have no idea what to make of Buddy/Hill anymore.
 
#68
I think Z-Bo might be the most hated good Kings player of all time going by this forum.

The young players get plenty of minutes and if Z-Bo is soo slow and sooo washed up...Skal and Willie have had and will continue to have ample oppurtunity to take minutes from him but no cigar.

Fox, Mason, Skal, Buddy, Bogdan play a lot of minutes for rookies and second year players who haven’t really discovered themselves yet. They aren’t going to get 48 minutes each and take 48 shots each.

And am I seriously reading people pretty much complaining that the Kings aren’t losing out the rest of their schedule a little over 20 games in?

Just read the box scores to see if the kids played well. Sorry Z-Bo is the only one on the team that can consistently play well. 25 minutes isn’t what I’d call a time hog. Sorry, the Kings aren’t the worst team in the NBA and wouldn’t have been regardless of Z-Bo.

Good win
 
#69
Agreed, rinse, wash, repeat every game. Same bitching and moaning even during wins.
And your post here you think doesnt qualify as "bitching and moaning"?

I think nothing wrong with people expressing their concerns/frustrations about the direction of the team they love. You and a few others instead are "bitching and moaning" about what other posters are saying. Theres a difference there.
 
#70
I think Z-Bo might be the most hated good Kings player of all time going by this forum.
Ramon Sessions/Isaiah Thomas got far more hate on here one for apparently not allowing Cousins to get his numbers and the other for being utter rubbish.

I don't think anyone really hates Z-Bo he's amusing to watch imo but I think some people don't like the fact he's being featured but when he's playing as well as he did tonight can't really say anything the hate towards Z-Bo is more towards Joeger you can't fault Z-Bo for doing what he's done for 15 years when he's put into a position to do it.
 
#71
And your post here you think doesnt qualify as "bitching and moaning"?

I think nothing wrong with people expressing their concerns/frustrations about the direction of the team they love. You and a few others instead are "bitching and moaning" about what other posters are saying. Theres a difference there.
Nice hot take with good insight.
 
#74
ummm what? what're you guys talking about? Bogie was a HUGE part of this win, and Fox and Mason looked really good again as well. Surely these guys are learning from our vets but
if you guys think 9 wins in a season and no experience of winning close games is a great thing, then hey! great.

We definitely wont be good enough to be anything but top 6 in the draft next year IMO anyway, but tanking guarantees NOTHING.
I mean, I wouldn't be so sure. We started out the season in line with Dallas, Atlanta, and Chicago but have slowly pulled away from them in the standings. Memphis and Orlando are in freefall, Clippers are injured, Brooklyn, Lakers, Phoenix, and Charlotte are not good teams to begin with. All of a sudden, we're in the same area as these teams, and that's not even getting into the tanking shenanigans that teams get into post all-star break and that we are notoriously slow to follow. Remember Joerger chasing wins down the stretch of last season half the time while other teams shamelessly tanked ALL the time. We were lucky to get Fox to begin with.

Tanking doesn't guarantee a #1 pick, but being a bottom 2 team this year guarantees you a pick in this year's top heavy draft, it doesn't really matter the exact position as long as we're looking at a Top 5 and are discussing who between Ayton, Doncic, Porter, or Bagley we should pick, rather than Knox, Bridges, Jackson, or Sexton like we're on a path to doing.

And I do think that was the way to go, for just one season. This one. We have no incentive to tank next year, gotta make this one count because it's essentially the last big piece we can add. We don't have a 2019 pick, and it's kind of a big deal. Everyone likes to act like we can take it super slowly, but time's still limited. A couple of things happen the longer we wait. One, these guys have to eventually get paid. Two, prospects will eventually start to lose their shine.

We were in position to do what Chicago was doing this year after the draft and check so many boxes. But then free agency happened and coupling that with this particular coach and his habits and things have become muddled.

So, me and some others will moan and be negative in the threads because this season seems like we're wasting our time, compounded by the fact that we're already playing against a stacked deck with next year's draft. And then the people who bought the narrative about vet leadership and earning minutes and this and that will snark at us and say we're unpleaseable. I can't speak for everyone, but I can handle 46 point Atlanta losses if we're checking the boxes we should be doing right now. But we're not.

By the 2020 draft we should know who's worthless and who isn't. We may even being starting over again.
 
#75
Skal is a project. We all know that. He will take sometime and who's to say if he will amount to anything. That's beside the point here. The purpose of acquiring all the youth, I thought, is to play the youth, I'm not expecting to play them all but I'd like to see a fair share of them get more minutes than seeing 37 minutes for Temple, 12 minutes for Carter, 32 minutes for slow-bo, Koufos with 14 and then giving Buddy 7 minutes, Skal 15, Mason 16
You forgot the part where Bogie played 30 minutes, and Fox played 28 minutes with WCS adding 24 minutes.
 
#76
Part of the question of whether Joerger is a fit for a rebuilding team isn’t just the minutes allotment, but the importance of winning meaningless games Vs development. Certain coaches understand and play along with the big picture, while others don’t...
Most coaches understand they are judged by wins and losses. No matter the legitimate expectation of the roster or the state of the franchise.

How many Brett Brown situations are there? It’s quite shocking he’s still the coach of Philly, but it’s also rare that a front office makes a vow to intentionally suck for several years.

What makes you think Joerger is in a situation where tanking and calling it player development doesn’t mean he’s not out on his arse when the results are terrible? He’s a coach. His instincts for his nightly goal of winning games and job survival dictates he plays the guys that give him the best chance to win games.

I also don’t see what is wrong with how he’s developing the young players.

If my patience is being tested, it’s at the quality of play from the youngsters most nights..not that I’m not seeing enough of them.
 
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#77
Most coaches understand they are judged by wins and losses. No matter the legitimate expectation of the roster or the state of the franchise.

How many Brett Brown situations are there? It’s quite shocking he’s still the coach of Philly, but it’s also rare that a front office makes a vow to intentionally suck for several years.

What makes you think Joerger is in a situation where tanking and calling it player development doesn’t mean he’s not out on his arse when the results are terrible? He’s a coach. His instincts for his nightly goal of winning games and job survival dictates he plays the guys that give him the best chance to win games.

I also don’t see what is wrong with how he’s developing the young players.
I'll take it a step further. What coach would decide to bench the only guy consistently scoring because he is too old and not part of the youth movement? ZBo was a huge mismatch against the Bulls. There is not a coach in the world who would look at that and say; Hmmm, maybe I should sit him so the other team has a better chance.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#78
can you blame the posters? this is supposed to be a rebuilding phase and you have Joerger playing his favorites a little more than we anticipated and hoped for
Yes, I can blame the posters - which is why I didn't even log on to the board during the game. I simply do not understand the mindset that wants to root for a loss WHILE THE GAME IS UNDERWAY. It's a loser mentality to me.

Having said that, I'm not telling anyone how to root for the team and - with the exception I've mentioned before of people who are simply trolls in fan clothing - I'm not going to step in and be accused of over-moderating. While the game is on, I'm a fan. And as a fan, I never root for my team to lose. I'm actually tempted to have a game thread dedicated to positive vibes. Maybe more of those who just want to enjoy the game and watch the team might be enticed to return.

/endrant
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#79
I suppose it boils down what matters to each individual
No, it actually boils down some people not being able to stand seeing fans actually just having fun in the moment. It always has to be about the big picture and long-term goals for some and it just doesn't go down well with those who figure the future will take care of itself.
 
#80
Skal is a project. We all know that. He will take sometime and who's to say if he will amount to anything. That's beside the point here. The purpose of acquiring all the youth, I thought, is to play the youth, I'm not expecting to play them all but I'd like to see a fair share of them get more minutes than seeing 37 minutes for Temple, 12 minutes for Carter, 32 minutes for slow-bo, Koufos with 14 and then giving Buddy 7 minutes, Skal 15, Mason 16
I'm guessing the minutes distribution had something to do with a game tomorrow night.

I would expect a much different distribution tomorrow, but we'll see.

Plus, the only big minutes you listed there are temple and Zbo. Not ideal, but it is hardly a trend. I think Zbo and temple average mid to low 20 minutes /game.
 
#82
Most coaches understand they are judged by wins and losses. No matter the legitimate expectation of the roster or the state of the franchise.

How many Brett Brown situations are there? It’s quite shocking he’s still the coach of Philly, but it’s also rare that a front office makes a vow to intentionally suck for several years.

What makes you think Joerger is in a situation where tanking and calling it player development doesn’t mean he’s not out on his arse when the results are terrible? He’s a coach. His instincts for his nightly goal of winning games and job survival dictates he plays the guys that give him the best chance to win games.

I also don’t see what is wrong with how he’s developing the young players.

If my patience is being tested, it’s at the quality of play from the youngsters most nights..not that I’m not seeing enough of them.
Wasn’t that the entire reason for picking up his 4th year?

If that hadn’t happened I’d agree, but picking up the fourth year was supposed to be a nod to rebuilding this year with youth and taking the pressure off Joerger to let that happen
 
#84
Hey I'm always happy with a Kings W but if we are on the subject I think all the vets including Garrett Temple are either on the block or will be soon.
 
#85
I mean, I wouldn't be so sure. We started out the season in line with Dallas, Atlanta, and Chicago but have slowly pulled away from them in the standings. Memphis and Orlando are in freefall, Clippers are injured, Brooklyn, Lakers, Phoenix, and Charlotte are not good teams to begin with. All of a sudden, we're in the same area as these teams, and that's not even getting into the tanking shenanigans that teams get into post all-star break and that we are notoriously slow to follow. Remember Joerger chasing wins down the stretch of last season half the time while other teams shamelessly tanked ALL the time. We were lucky to get Fox to begin with.

Tanking doesn't guarantee a #1 pick, but being a bottom 2 team this year guarantees you a pick in this year's top heavy draft, it doesn't really matter the exact position as long as we're looking at a Top 5 and are discussing who between Ayton, Doncic, Porter, or Bagley we should pick, rather than Knox, Bridges, Jackson, or Sexton like we're on a path to doing.

And I do think that was the way to go, for just one season. This one. We have no incentive to tank next year, gotta make this one count because it's essentially the last big piece we can add. We don't have a 2019 pick, and it's kind of a big deal. Everyone likes to act like we can take it super slowly, but time's still limited. A couple of things happen the longer we wait. One, these guys have to eventually get paid. Two, prospects will eventually start to lose their shine.

We were in position to do what Chicago was doing this year after the draft and check so many boxes. But then free agency happened and coupling that with this particular coach and his habits and things have become muddled.

So, me and some others will moan and be negative in the threads because this season seems like we're wasting our time, compounded by the fact that we're already playing against a stacked deck with next year's draft. And then the people who bought the narrative about vet leadership and earning minutes and this and that will snark at us and say we're unpleaseable. I can't speak for everyone, but I can handle 46 point Atlanta losses if we're checking the boxes we should be doing right now. But we're not.

By the 2020 draft we should know who's worthless and who isn't. We may even being starting over again.
Forget about next year’s draft, it only screws up your enjoyment of our team’s progress. How often has a draft worked out to our advantage? Once in a while. We have a team. We have talent. Let us see where it takes us now.
 
#86
Wasn’t that the entire reason for picking up his 4th year?

If that hadn’t happened I’d agree, but picking up the fourth year was supposed to be a nod to rebuilding this year with youth and taking the pressure off Joerger to let that happen
I'm going to go with Joerger actually thinks winning will help this team in the short and long run. I also think Vlade thinks winning is good for the team.

As a fan what can I do but root. And I always feel a little lighter after a win than a loss. And I realize my rooting for a win doesn't change the outcome, so I will continue to root for wins.

For those hoping for loses, don't worry they will likely be crushed tomorrow and we can go back to lamenting how bad they are.
 
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#88
Wasn’t that the entire reason for picking up his 4th year?

If that hadn’t happened I’d agree, but picking up the fourth year was supposed to be a nod to rebuilding this year with youth and taking the pressure off Joerger to let that happen
They picked up his fourth year because he likes to win. And he is good at developing players. Get off it.
 
#89
No, it actually boils down some people not being able to stand seeing fans actually just having fun in the moment. It always has to be about the big picture and long-term goals for some and it just doesn't go down well with those who figure the future will take care of itself.
yea my short term memory is pretty darn good and i remember us winning just 17 games one season, and still coming away with the fourth pick.