Kings @ Blazers (Pre-Season) Game Discussion

[Team_Dime]

On another note, boy Meyers Leonard is a very, very solid player. I was very impressed with his play albeit a pre-season game. A nice jumpshot, good size/strength, a high IQ basketball player.

 

[jdbraver]

Two years ago Marco put up 32 points against the Knicks on 12 of 16 shooting and 6 of 9 from deep.

He followed up that game with a 5 point outing. Sure it's 32.5 minutes versus 24.5 minutes but his season average was 25 mpg so clearly he got the extra minutes because he was hot. I think that will be the way he's used with the Kings. He's a big weapon who can get hot and put points on the board in a hurry. But over his career he's been no more consistent than Ben, though I'll concede that he's been a generally more effective player overall.

McLemore III absolutely needs to get more consistent on offense and hit open shots at a higher rate. But what should determine whether or not he should start is whether he can defend at a decent level night in and night out. Belinelli is a poor defender, full stop. He gives effort but he's never even going to be average on that end. If anything he'll decline further over the next few years. So if Ben can up his shooting percentages a bit and make good decisions on offense while providing average or better offense then he should start.

And Marco will determine his own minutes off the bench by how well he's shooting the ball any given night.

Listen to coach Karl he preaches offense. In the post game he mention how good offense leads to good defense. Let's not pretend that if beli consistently hits the three that Bens defense will be a higher priority to the system Karl is implementing:

 

[kingjatt]

Early on Ben was set up by Rondo where proceeded to miss a wide open three that HAS to be knocked down for our offensive system to work. It will basically be the Cuz/Gay ISO show entirely if no one in the starting lineup can make a consistent jumper besides Cuz. Thats why Beli needs to start, with Rondo/Gay having shaky jumpers everything will be clogged up. Sure Beli is a bad defender but he has the ability to make it up consistently on the other end whereas Ben does not. Perhaps if Rondo is healthy he can pick up the other teams playmaker and Beli can be hidden on their 3&D guy.

Ben still appears overwhelmed out there when he is in with the starters, his decision making is not any sharper and he still cant dribble without turning it over.

This stuff either needs to be fixed or he can take a seat because a team that has playoff aspirations and more importantly is on the clock with Cousins contract cannot have a liability out there with the starters.

 

[King Baller]

Listen to coach Karl he preaches offense. In the post game he mention how good offense leads to good defense. Let's not pretend that if beli consistently hits the three that Bens defense will be a higher priority to the system Karl is implementing:

It is always better if the other team has to keep taking it out of the net

 

[Livinthedream]

Listen to coach Karl he preaches offense. In the post game he mention how good offense leads to good defense. Let's not pretend that if beli consistently hits the three that Bens defense will be a higher priority to the system Karl is implementing:

I'm really not clear on what you expect from Marco this year. Is he going to significantly improve on his career averages across the board? 9ppg career avg is going to increase to what in order to make him much more productive than Ben's 12 ppg last year? Shoots 37% from 3 vs. Ben's 36%. Does not rebound better, get more steals or play defense better than Ben right now or at any point in his career. What makes him different this year?

I'm very happy to have Marco and think he upgrades our team. But if Ben improves even slightly, he's the better overall player.

Marco is going to bring veteran play that will come into play at the end of games, which is when the Kings suffered most the last couple years. But he doesn't need to start in order to do that.

 

[jdbraver]

I'm really not clear on what you expect from Marco this year. Is he going to significantly improve on his career averages across the board? 9ppg career avg is going to increase to what in order to make him much more productive than Ben's 12 ppg last year? Shoots 37% from 3 vs. Ben's 36%. Does not rebound better, get more steals or play defense better than Ben right now or at any point in his career. What makes him different this year?

I'm very happy to have Marco and think he upgrades our team. But if Ben improves even slightly, he's the better overall player.

Marco is going to bring veteran play that will come into play at the end of games, which is when the Kings suffered most the last couple years. But he doesn't need to start in order to do that.

You also forgot about Ben's unforced turnovers.

 

[lawlman91]

cousins scored 20, noone bats an eye

 

[Hadlowe]

cousins scored 20, noone bats an eye

Yeah, a bit of a down game for him.

 

[randymoss1881]

We can get away with playing Cousins at the 4 against Memphis, San Antonio, Washington, Chicago, and maybe Milwaukee. That's probably the whole list, though.

Only San Antonio and Memphis.
I wouldn't want cousins defending the 3point line vs Chicago matching up vs Mirotic (when he starts). And Milwaukee starts Jabri Parker at PF.

 

[Livinthedream]

You also forgot about Ben's unforced turnovers.

Ben needs to improve on his turnovers. He needs to make sure that he doesn't disappear from games when he's not scoring. Make his presence felt in other ways. Needs to improve his ball handling. I think Ben needs to take responsibility for getting himself involved in the offense if he's not getting his shot as much as he needs.

Yet he is still putting up average SG numbers with room to grow. If he doesn't realize his potential, then that is on him. But he's 22 and it remains to be seen.

I'll give WCS the same leeway because of his potential.

 

[Bricklayer]

cousins scored 20, noone bats an eye

22, in 23 minutes.

And the Portland announcers then chose to take Darren and Marco's hot steak as an opportunity to suggest that maybe Cuz was holding them back. noted 20ppg scorers that they are.

 

[Hadlowe]

Last year, the Kings had a really effective starting five. Statistically, they were solid defensively and one of the top efficiency units on the offensive end. The bench was a train wreck. They couldn't score, couldn't defend, and the lack of a backup center meant that they couldn't rebound and close out the few defensive possessions that resulted in a missed shot.

I think this year they have the balance to put out a strong starting five with a competitive bench. Moving Bellinelli to the starting five MIGHT have a slight statistical improvement due to better spacing for Cousins, but it takes a creator and decent PnR shooter from the bench and puts him on the floor with two shot-hungry stars and a ball-pounding PG in Rondo. You're sacrificing significant bench firepower for a marginal increase in offensive effectiveness in the starting unit, and that's only looking at the offensive side of the court.

Ben is already a better defender than Marco, he shoots almost as well and is lightning in the fast break. Let Marco come off the bench where he can actually get shots up instead of making him play 3rd (or 4th, depending on Rondo) fiddle on offense with the starters.

 

[Guy Larboni]

That was so much fun watching Marco-Polo go to work out there, just like against Spain when he exploded at the 2nd half.
Well, pre-season, but it felt so good to get that comeback win, it's a pleasure to watch WCS play defense and just the amount of effort he's playing with, I wish he's going to improve his rebounding during the season, but then again, we have Kosta who's probably the one who's going to start.

I want to see Marco and Casspi playing together along with DC, WCS and Acy. Sheesh... talk about hige tempo game.

 

[Livinthedream]

Only San Antonio and Memphis.
I wouldn't want cousins defending the 3point line vs Chicago matching up vs Mirotic (when he starts). And Milwaukee starts Jabri Parker at PF.

I think I'm in the start WCS camp simply for this reason. But Karl prefers to play vets.

Starting Cousins and 2K only works if your plan is to pound your smaller opponents in the paint ala Memphis. But if you start floating Cousins around the 3pt line, you've taken away any advantage you could've had.

 

[swisshh]

I imagine we'll see different starting line-ups in the first few preseason games, so I'm waiting to see how each lineup rotation does before making proclamations.

I would like to see a Rondo/Marco backcourt, a WCS/Boogie combo, a Darren/McLemore combo, and a Boogie/Gay/Casspi frontline tried at some point.

 

[Hadlowe]

I think I'm in the start WCS camp simply for this reason. But Karl prefers to play vets.

Starting Cousins and 2K only works if your plan is to pound your smaller opponents in the paint ala Memphis. But if you start floating Cousins around the 3pt line, you've taken away any advantage you could've had.

Cousins is really good at the left elbow. Kosta is a scrapper with some touch around the rim, but he doesn't have nearly the polish on his offensive game as Gasol or Randolph. It's tough to run a Memphis style high-low game without two polished offensive bigs.

The problem is that WCS is also a non-factor on offense. He got his shots sent back a few times last night by mediocre rim protectors just because he doesn't have a feel for the game around the basket. His game is currently Deandre Jordan without the rebounding. If he can show me some of those mid-range jumpers we were hearing about in training camp, then maybe he is a better fit than Koufos.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Much ado about starters, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Rondo, Collison, Bellinelli, Gay, and Cousins out there to finish games.

In particular, that's the lineup I envision in crunch time against Paul, Crawford, Redick, Pierce, and Griffin in Game 7 of the second round

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Only San Antonio and Memphis.
I wouldn't want cousins defending the 3point line vs Chicago matching up vs Mirotic (when he starts). And Milwaukee starts Jabri Parker at PF.

Mirotic is not going to start, unless someone is injured. Not at PF, anyway.

 

[Livinthedream]

Cousins is really good at the left elbow. Kosta is a scrapper with some touch around the rim, but he doesn't have nearly the polish on his offensive game as Gasol or Randolph. It's tough to run a Memphis style high-low game without two polished offensive bigs.

The problem is that WCS is also a non-factor on offense. He got his shots sent back a few times last night by mediocre rim protectors just because he doesn't have a feel for the game around the basket. His game is currently Deandre Jordan without the rebounding. If he can show me some of those mid-range jumpers we were hearing about in training camp, then maybe he is a better fit than Koufos.

Jordan's offensive game is the pick and roll. Or back door oop. If that is worked into the offense for WCS to give the defense something to worry about, then it may work.

I haven't studied the dribble drive offense to see how that comes into play, but WCS survived in this offense at KY.

 

[Gliesian]

I didn't see the Cousins from last year- the unstoppable force inside that often demanded triple treams. I want to make that the norm, and I don't trust 2K or WCS to nail an outside shot... so I think the best option is Rudy at PF.
Hopefully this Cousins shooting 3's nonsense will stop. If we're going to start two centers we might as well start both our point guards too.
Honestly, I feel like we're missing a starting PF.
Other than that, very exciting to see us get the win!

 

[206Fan]

Yeah, I've really come around to the idea of Cauley-Stein starting. It seems like a terrible idea for a team with playoff aspirations to have a rookie in the starting lineup but unless Karl wants to flip-flop lineups a lot to have Gay starting at PF with Cuz at C or Boogie starting at PF with Koufos at C depending on matchups then I don't see a great alternative.

Gay will struggle against a lot of big/post up PFs. So against Griffin, Aldridge, Randolph, Sullinger, Nene, Gasol, Millsap and Anthony Davis it'd be a tough thing to start Rudy at the four.

Likewise against George (if he really does play a lot of PF for IND), Love, Nowitzki, Green, Faried, Morris, Parker, Patterson, Ilyasova, etc Cousins is going to have a very tough time chasing guys around the perimeter. And while he'll have a huge advantage in the post against all of those guys, having Koufos at C means a more clogged paint and likely fewer post up touches because of it.

Cauley-Stein has the length to defend tall/power players and the quickness to guard perimeter oriented PFs. I expect him to struggle against talented veterans like Blake and LMA and the Brow but he's the best defensive option IMO. And perhaps more importantly we saw that if Koufos starts our second unit is very weak on the boards. Cousins can cover for WCS not being a strong rebounder and Koufos can help the fact that Acy also isn't great on the glass (or aid Gay if he shifts to the 4) giving more balance.

I'm a big Koufos fan and I think he should get a ton of minutes but without too much of a kneejerk reaction based on one preseason game I have to say I'm not a huge fan of starting DeMarcus and Kosta together.

Cauley-Stein still wouldn't play huge minutes or likely be in at the end of games (likely logging the fewest minutes among the starters) but he's a very good option to start games and feel out the pace and style of play before making substitutions.

My $0.02

I don't want WCS. A lot of people who are asking for him completely ignore the offense.

His offense is worse than Kofus. Not a knock on Willie, but it's true. That starting unit had absolutely no floor space whatsoever.

We need to move Rudy to PF, but let WCS/Kofus start in case of a bad mismatch for Rudy.

We need to a promote a stretch SG/SF to the starting lineup. Someone who can at least knock down 3's and defend the opposing SF. I think that player can be James Anderson. He played really really solid D last night, and only had about 1-2 shot attempts. I wouldn't play him a ton, but I'd let him start in order to space the floor a lot more. You can't have Casspi start because that guy is indecisive as hell. He'll pass up a wide open 3 to drive in a lane full of defenders. I'm pretty sure he takes a few extra steps in the mix too. He's just best suited as the spark guy from the bench until he shows that he can improve his 3pt shooting.

Belinelli would be another interesting option, but he can't guard SFs.

Butler would be another interesting option, but I have doubts about his defense.

Ben can't guard SFs either.

All points to James Anderson if we want to spread the floor.

 

[206Fan]

I didn't see the Cousins from last year- the unstoppable force inside that often demanded triple treams. I want to make that the norm, and I don't trust 2K or WCS to nail an outside shot... so I think the best option is Rudy at PF.
Hopefully this Cousins shooting 3's nonsense will stop. If we're going to start two centers we might as well start both our point guards too.
Honestly, I feel like we're missing a starting PF.
Other than that, very exciting to see us get the win!

Agree with you 100%. I think we need to start Rudy at PF. He doesn't look comfortable in playing out in the perimeter anymore. We need to let him play PF in order to suit his game a lot more. His current game fits more of the new generation PF anyways.

 

[ESP47]

So 1 preseason game erases his entire career at SF? Rudy should be used exactly the way he has been with us since he got here. He's having career years in Sacramento. He can play PF for small stretches but the man is a beast at the SF position.

 

[Hadlowe]

Jordan's offensive game is the pick and roll. Or back door oop. If that is worked into the offense for WCS to give the defense something to worry about, then it may work.

I haven't studied the dribble drive offense to see how that comes into play, but WCS survived in this offense at KY.

I'm pretty sure that WCS could adequately fill the same role as Jordan on the Clippers.

The problem is that Rondo is a different creature than Paul on the pick and roll. Paul is a scoring threat anywhere in the half-court. You have to pick him up at the three point line, which means either you give Jordan a diving lane or you rotate to cover and leave a shooter open on the perimeter somewhere. Rondo's lack of a shot means he has to drive inside after the pick to be a scoring threat, which really means he needs a pick and pop big man to be really effective. Cousins is decent there. WCS is not (yet.)

The best option would be to implement a good motion offense that let WCS focus on screening Ben and Rudy off-ball while Rondo and Cousins play a two-man game. Let everyone play to their strengths.

 

[pshn80]

Not might, will. We already know who Marco is as a player; lights out shooter, good bball IQ, can be a playmaker, bad defender. He's shown he can be a highly successful rotational player in 20-25 MPG off the bench and being the "lead option" type of guy for the second unit for multiple teams. Why take a guy out of a role he's already comfortable in?

Ben made significant strides from year 1 to year 2 and he's significantly more qualified to keep up with the Harden/Monta/Wade/Dipo type of SG's than Belli is. Don't send him to the bench unless he gives us a reason to do so.

If what you say about Bellinelli being mor can't mor table off the bench then I would consider starting James Anderson. Ben needs the prove he myself off the bench. I defer to th coaching staff and their choice for starting and minutes.

 

[IfAt1st]

I don't want WCS. A lot of people who are asking for him completely ignore the offense.

His offense is worse than Kofus. Not a knock on Willie, but it's true. That starting unit had absolutely no floor space whatsoever.

We need to move Rudy to PF, but let WCS/Kofus start in case of a bad mismatch for Rudy.

We need to a promote a stretch SG/SF to the starting lineup. Someone who can at least knock down 3's and defend the opposing SF. I think that player can be James Anderson. He played really really solid D last night, and only had about 1-2 shot attempts. I wouldn't play him a ton, but I'd let him start in order to space the floor a lot more. You can't have Casspi start because that guy is indecisive as hell. He'll pass up a wide open 3 to drive in a lane full of defenders. I'm pretty sure he takes a few extra steps in the mix too. He's just best suited as the spark guy from the bench until he shows that he can improve his 3pt shooting.

Belinelli would be another interesting option, but he can't guard SFs.

Butler would be another interesting option, but I have doubts about his defense.

Ben can't guard SFs either.

All points to James Anderson if we want to spread the floor.

You know, recently every time I read a post that sounds crazy to me - a post that just smacks me upside the head with how it seems out-of-touch with the Kings team I know.....

....every time that happens, I look to the left and see it's your name posting it.

Gotta work on that.

 

[lawlman91]

Starting Cousins and 2K only works if your plan is to pound your smaller opponents in the paint ala Memphis. But if you start floating Cousins around the 3pt line, you've taken away any advantage you could've had.

I disagree if you are implying that DMC is at his best when he is posted up. He is best at the high post/mid range area where he can either drive or shoot the mid-range J.

 

[miltonap]

Move WCS to the starting line-up. That's all that needs to be done imo. Leave Bellinelli on the bench.

 

[Gliesian]

So 1 preseason game erases his entire career at SF? Rudy should be used exactly the way he has been with us since he got here. He's having career years in Sacramento. He can play PF for small stretches but the man is a beast at the SF position.

Don't know where you got that from, but it doesn't take one preseason game to think that our PF spot might be a problem. Last night's game only highlights the problem. Just look at the roster- JT is no longer here! Rudy is a beast at SF and I would love to keep him there, but if it means we put Cousins back in his most effective spot, then I'd rather go small. The cost of this is then having a problem at SF b/c Casspi is not a starter.

I give the Cousins experiment a third of our season, and if it fails we should make one more trade to get a PF, then all will be right. Unfortunately, it will have to be WCS and that could end up ruining chemistry, especially since he is Kentucky blood.

 

[VF21]

Don't know where you got that from, but it doesn't take one preseason game to think that our PF spot might be a problem. Last night's game only highlights the problem. Just look at the roster- JT is no longer here! Rudy is a beast at SF and I would love to keep him there, but if it means we put Cousins back in his most effective spot, then I'd rather go small. The cost of this is then having a problem at SF b/c Casspi is not a starter.

I give the Cousins experiment a third of our season, and if it fails we should make one more trade to get a PF, then all will be right. Unfortunately, it will have to be WCS and that could end up ruining chemistry, especially since he is Kentucky blood.

The solution to our problem at PF is not to move a natural SF into the role. We're still a work in progress. We need to keep Cousins where he does best, Rudy where he does best, and we need to keep working on finding a legitimate 4 (if we don't already have one on the roster).

It's been one pre-season game. As much as I love to see people so excited about the Kings again, I don't like to see us falling back into the bad habit of suggesting we play good players out of position to solve a deficiency.