theclash4u5
Starter
Remind me again, what spot were the Bulls when they won the draft?
Kings and free agency - part 2
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
Remind me again, what spot were the Bulls when they won the draft?
Then other teams won't make deals with Vlade. I guess it's always possible that we fail to land a big FA and so we ask to sweeten or modify it slightly in terms of the picks in play. Though I still think we are better off for it. Even JT who I like and think has a role as a 3rd big on this team as assembled has been a huge cry baby over his career.
The Hammer
All-Star
He sucked the offense dry for personal stats. Couldn't contain his man on D. Oh... he got the defensive money stat ok: steals. But effective "stat free" basketball... that was a foreign concept to him. Cuz hated playing with him. Don't you remember that?
So you would rather keep the pick rather than risk swapping and going after a proven player based on a 1% chance of winning the lottery?
Kingsgurl
Starter
I really don't understand the angst over future picks, nor the steadfast, unwavering belief that the only way to build a team is through the draft. Historically, that hasn't worked out so well for us. It suddenly did, when we drafted DeMarcus, but we were caught in a 'build a losing team so the fan base won't all commit suicide or bomb our house' Maloof spiral, which was rapidly followed by a starry eyed new owner who made a lot of mistakes in who he listened to, who put himself too much in the fore front. We can draft 1st. 2nd, 3rd or whatever in the next 10 drafts and not get a player that equals Boogie. HE is the player that teams tank to get, he is the player franchises are built around. If the recent moves to clear salary cap and aggressively go after players who can make what SHOULD happen when you have a player of that stature happen, then I say, let Vlade work. Finally, someone gets it. Standing pat is not an option. Clinging to future picks who 'might' pan out while a future Hall Of Famer rots on your roster of previous picks that didn't quite measure up, just turned out to be 'decent', or 'could potentially have a break out year' is, quite frankly, loser talk. Perennial rebuild, we will never be anything but a door mat, but we are ok with that because we might draft someone else's next big superstar.
Vlade has my absolute support during this off season. He feels the heat. We want to win. We NEED to win. We have the best big man in the league and he is being aggressive in putting a team around him. There are years of baggage (pre Vlade, Pre Boogie) tha t come to the table (the small market, the stigma we have always carried) We need to go big, or go home, and Vlade is doing that.
Vlade has my absolute support during this off season. He feels the heat. We want to win. We NEED to win. We have the best big man in the league and he is being aggressive in putting a team around him. There are years of baggage (pre Vlade, Pre Boogie) tha t come to the table (the small market, the stigma we have always carried) We need to go big, or go home, and Vlade is doing that.
kingsfan101
Starter
With all this talk of Boogie potentially leaving, here is a proposal; trade him.
I know it won't be a popular idea. Hell, even I don't like it. However, as of now, we are a bad team. We are worse than at the end of last season, have little future assets to hope for a rebuild, and FAs are shunning us like the plague. What are the chances he sticks around even till the end of his contract?
Sure, we don't have to trade him. However, superstars have a way of forcing your hand if they want, and even a loyal guy like Boogie might lose patience, particularly when he has issues with his coach, and doesn't see much hope.
If so, it shall be better to do so early, than late. If his camp gives even some indication of an interest in moving away, sit down with them, say that we shall actively look for a good place for him (preferably East), which will get us something good too, and then, keep that promise.
Sure, we'll still get pennies on the dollar, but will be much better than him leaving with no compensation, or if he forces our hand, which drives his price down more.
Sixers would love it, since they'll get some real high picks from us. Hopefully, at least some of the assets we get in return for DMC will be useful in near future.
I know it won't be a popular idea. Hell, even I don't like it. However, as of now, we are a bad team. We are worse than at the end of last season, have little future assets to hope for a rebuild, and FAs are shunning us like the plague. What are the chances he sticks around even till the end of his contract?
Sure, we don't have to trade him. However, superstars have a way of forcing your hand if they want, and even a loyal guy like Boogie might lose patience, particularly when he has issues with his coach, and doesn't see much hope.
If so, it shall be better to do so early, than late. If his camp gives even some indication of an interest in moving away, sit down with them, say that we shall actively look for a good place for him (preferably East), which will get us something good too, and then, keep that promise.
Sure, we'll still get pennies on the dollar, but will be much better than him leaving with no compensation, or if he forces our hand, which drives his price down more.
Sixers would love it, since they'll get some real high picks from us. Hopefully, at least some of the assets we get in return for DMC will be useful in near future.
ockingsfan
Starter
The way the Kings draft, this team would never be good.
Let's see, we draft in top 8 every year for the past 8 years and we get jimmer, Thomas Robinson, and nik stauskas.
The only player we drafted well was dmc and hopefully mcclemore and now hopefully WCS. We traded tyreke for a bag off Doritos.
The draft is not a good way to build a team, unless you have excellent talent evaluators or scouts.
Let's see, we draft in top 8 every year for the past 8 years and we get jimmer, Thomas Robinson, and nik stauskas.
The only player we drafted well was dmc and hopefully mcclemore and now hopefully WCS. We traded tyreke for a bag off Doritos.
The draft is not a good way to build a team, unless you have excellent talent evaluators or scouts.
Livinthedream
All-Star
We were never going to get a proven player in free agency. This move was premature. Desperate. I'll advised.
theclash4u5
Starter
I don't understand this logic. You are basically saying that you don't trust this team to draft players, but you trust them to sign good players at good contracts? Ok...
theclash4u5
Starter
I have no problem with the trade if it would have brought back a proven player immediately. Right now we are crossing our fingers hoping not to overpay someone (which is going to happen one way or another) just to come here. We have never been a big free agent attraction and we are acting like we are. We aren't. Divac is our biggest free agent in Sacramento history. But without Webber....
Double-K
Starter
Neither.
We are a small market team with some drama in our front office that aren't going away soon. It's an uphill battle to get talents anyway. That's why I don't understand why people are so fixated on the small gains and miss the big picture of making a gamble for a potential big outcome? If anything, a powerful team is the only way we can attract free agents or young rookies (so they don't turn down our evaluations).
The only thing this regime has done half decently is trades. Gay trade is a win. LMAM trade turns into the Derrick Williams trade and is essentially a wash. Sessions for Miller is a win.
However, if you are a small market and you don't draft well then you're ****ed. Yes, the Bucks got Free Agents. They got those FAs because they've drafted well and got good talent that is attractive to other talent. Kings have sat in the lottery and got it right once, and I get the feeling that was a fluke of the Maloofs.
However, if you are a small market and you don't draft well then you're ****ed. Yes, the Bucks got Free Agents. They got those FAs because they've drafted well and got good talent that is attractive to other talent. Kings have sat in the lottery and got it right once, and I get the feeling that was a fluke of the Maloofs.
jcwkings
All-Star
Those picks were dumb. T Rob was an undersized PF in the mold of a 1990's PF, bust written all over it.
Jimmer was an undersized SG with severe physical limitations. Maloofs clearly wanted to make some quick cash with "Jimmermania".
Nik is unclear, but it was clear that Payton was a better prospect.
Drafting isnt that hard.
theclash4u5
Starter
It's not an uphill battle to get talents here if you trade for them instead of trying to overpay to get free agents. We are looking at this all wrong as a front office. We could have used that same package and assets to bring in a player on a contract.
The Hammer
All-Star
You're forgetting Tyreke.
2 of the 3 you mentioned (jimmer, stauskas), were owner picks.
What we've been saddled with lately really boils down to one thing: incompetent ownership.
When allowed to draft freely, Petrie was a good drafter (not perfect, but even TRob is turning into a decent player now). Now Vlade, who made damn sure he drafted unencumbered by input from ANYONE, (how completely opposite the "crowd sourcing" bs cooked up as a marketing ploy by Vivek), just nailed this draft.
It's a lot easier to be successful when you don't have owners actively sabotaging the team, or a brand new owner who thinks he's god's gift to pro sports because his daughter's team almost took the crown and he started a tech company.
Trading DeMarcus Cousins is playing to lose. We already gave up all chance of winning the lottery and keeping the pick for the forseeable future so if that were ever actually an option, it's off the table now. Vlade burned the ships. We're on this island now for better or worse. Maybe the lack of a draft safety net is the actual motivation we need to stop throwing away entire seasons and get crap done. How hard is it really to find 2 or 3 hidden gems nobody else wants? San Antonio does it every single year it seems. Scour the international market, pore over the undrafted talent. Who's going to be the next Ben Wallace, Brad Miller, Wesley Matthews? If we can corner the market on underappreciated talent we can be competitive every year in a small market that's last on every free agent's list. Beef up the scouting department until it's the best in the league. We already have a superstar center. We need a system and roleplayers around him that works. That's the deal. Don't get mad, get even. 
theclash4u5
Starter
WCS hasn't even played a minute in the NBA, a little soon to say anyone nailed this draft.
theclash4u5
Starter
Trading DeMarcus Cousins is playing to lose. We already gave up all chance of winning the lottery and keeping the pick for the forseeable future so if that were ever actually an option, it's off the table now. Vlade burned the ships. We're on this island now for better or worse. Maybe the lack of a draft safety net is the actual motivation we need to stop throwing away entire seasons and get poopoo done. How hard is it really to find 2 or 3 hidden gems nobody else wants? San Antonio does it every single year it seems. Scour the international market, pore over the undrafted talent. Who's going to be the next Ben Wallace, Brad Miller, Wesley Matthews? If we can corner the market on underappreciated talent we can be competitive every year in a small market nobody that's last on every free agents list. Beef up the scouting department until it's the best in the league. Don't get mad, get even.
We should have taken that route before trading away 1st round picks, though.
The Hammer
All-Star
No. It's not.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Irrelevant. It truly is. If those picks are relevant, it means we already lost. If we get decent, picks in the midround or later are just the occasional roleplayer anyway. So your big complaint is if we don't get decent we have no way to get decent? Sure. So stipulated. I DO NOT CARE. If we don't get decent now after 10 years in the outhouse, I am fundamentally unconcerned about helping our 12th, 13th, 14th years of rebuilding.
This is the play to break the endless cycle of defeat. After you get stuck on that cycle long enough you get kind of addicted to it and scared to leave it. But at some point you gotta take the leap and actually try. We just did. Even if we fall short at least somebody stood up and took a shot.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Risks can be strategic enablers. This one was. We were pinned down, unable to move or make any strategic decisions at all. Take our draft pick in the order we "earn it". Squeeze out a single 3rd tier free agent. Cross our fingers and waddle on as some eternal punching bag until we lose the only hope we have.
This risk opened up a whole new horizon of strategic possibilities. Unmoveable assets became highly fungible cap space.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Problem is not missed draft picks. It's giving up on the drafted players too early and not focusing on player development.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Matthews =/= all FAs, oddly enough.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We frankly have no history of that at all, unless you count Reke and IT who were fully formed. The only other character who even remotely fits was Whiteside, but Hassan was entirely out of the league and traveled a long strange road to finally make it back in. Few if any teams would have hung on for 5 years waiting for a D-League asset to mature. Jimmer and TRob were well gotten rid of. Nik may one day become a solid NBA roleplayer. He's not now and will likely be replaced by a better NBA player by the end of this very summer.
I'm just glad we finally did something proactive. Time's up. No more waiting to see what the draft brings us. No more waiting for unwanted contracts to run out. That's a losing game, quite literaly in our case. We've been waiting for over a decade for either some lotto luck or for bad contracts to end so we can replace them with more bad contracts. Seriously, this goes back a loooong time. Enough is enough! Conventional wisdom had its shot and left us at the alter. It's time to get creative. I don't think people realize what a huge relief it is to finally have no drags on the salary cap. What if we only sign 1 or 2 year deals from here on out unless somebody proves they're a vital piece? There's no rule about needing draft picks and max money deals to win. You need talent to win. We have some, we need more. We need to sign diamonds in the rough here and we need a system that allows players to succeed by being really good at one thing and willing to work their ass off on defense. It's worked before for Popovich and Sloan and Wooden. George Karl is a HOF coach, let's see him earn that paycheck.
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theclash4u5
Starter
Okay, in that case, then 29 other NBA teams nailed the draft too.
K
KingMilz
Guest
That's highly debatable considering Toronto looked like they were going to miss the playoffs and ended up 20 games over 500 or close to it and the following year were close to 50 wins again.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No, it really shan't.
If an NBA team doesn't have the courage to fight for its superstars it should just save the scheduler some trouble and turn in its franchise badge at league offices on Monday. A cowardly organization will just keep on circling the drain bailing out on everything worth while every time things get tough. You fight for your franchise player because that is what you are, or should be. Otherwise you are just some loser organization playing for 2nd, or 3rd, or maybe a participation badge and a pat on the head.
2 1/2 in 30 years (Mitch wasn't truly a superstar). Once every decade or so if you're lucky. If you're in high school you might be pushing 30 by the next one. If you have a kid in kindergarten you might be helping her prep for college and pondering empty nest syndrome. So you fight.
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