Kings acquire Hilton Armstrong

Please. Stop posting and saying this deal doesn't hurt the team. It does. Read some of the cap space posts. A lot of doors closed because of this move. Sure, the Maloofs got a little richer, but the deal itself did hurt the Kings.


Armstrong is a scrub. There are better FA bigs out there than him.
 
The funny thing is the same argument was used to defend the May signing in the first place. A lot of fans said we don't know what Petrie is working on. May needs a fresh start. He's a big body. And finally, wait to see what the rest of the off-season brings. If its just May, then we can *****. Now, we're saying the same things about fatty's replacement on the bench.

I'd just like to spend some time discussing a meaningful Petrie trade/signing rather than always just dismissing every move as "couldn't hurt that much". Not a high enough bar.

no... we need to keep this thread going for at least 4 more pages. may is a loser, people need to stop sipping on that purple kool-aid. every player that comes here doesnt need a change of scenery. maybe they just suck. may sucked, mason sucked and hilton will suck. well, he already sucks but he hasnt sucked as a king yet. now i feel bad for calling thompson a scrub, i forgot how bad players can really be. hilton armstrong is a scrub. my bad thompson, youve been upgraded in book from "scrub" to "he's just not that good".
 
well we've been moaning and complaining for a C for a while and when we finally get one... all were doing is still moaning and complaining. and you guys moan and complain about how GP is a bad gm, when just 6months or so ago he brought us hope. he's not always gonna be perfect. let the man do his job.
 
Please. Stop posting and saying this deal doesn't hurt the team. It does. Read some of the cap space posts. A lot of doors closed because of this move. Sure, the Maloofs got a little richer, but the deal itself did hurt the Kings.


Armstrong is a scrub. There are better FA bigs out there than him.



Like who????
 
well we've been moaning and complaining for a C for a while and when we finally get one... all were doing is still moaning and complaining. and you guys moan and complain about how GP is a bad gm, when just 6months or so ago he brought us hope. he's not always gonna be perfect. let the man do his job.

We're all GMs here and we're better than the real one. Our fantasy team say so.;)
 
well we've been moaning and complaining for a C for a while and when we finally get one... all were doing is still moaning and complaining. and you guys moan and complain about how GP is a bad gm, when just 6months or so ago he brought us hope. he's not always gonna be perfect. let the man do his job.

no, we still dont have a back up center, hilton is just 6 more fouls... hopefully he'll save thompson a few fouls.
 
Please. Stop posting and saying this deal doesn't hurt the team. It does. Read some of the cap space posts. A lot of doors closed because of this move. Sure, the Maloofs got a little richer, but the deal itself did hurt the Kings.


Armstrong is a scrub. There are better FA bigs out there than him.
But if we signed a FA then we'd be in the same boat cap wise AND paying for him where here it appears NO is actually paying us to pay him and then more cash to the team which needs it.

I still think we may be ok if we're still under the cap as the trade restrictions only apply to teams over the cap. One of the teams that was in biggest need of relief was NO, so if we couldn't work out a better deal with them we probably couldn't work out a better deal at all. Or maybe this favor we are doing them now will be repaid at a later date.

I don't really care for this move but the only way this move hurts the team is if it blocks a future deal that actually works for both teams. If KT for Okafor was on the table and the Maloofs rejected it strictly due to the salary consequences then we can't blame Petrie for that.
 
Please. Stop posting and saying this deal doesn't hurt the team. It does. Read some of the cap space posts. A lot of doors closed because of this move. Sure, the Maloofs got a little richer, but the deal itself did hurt the Kings.


Armstrong is a scrub. There are better FA bigs out there than him.


What doors have closed? We have enough cap space even after this trade to acquire any FA.
 
The thing is, we may not have Tyreke if we wouldn't have traded Bibby. We made the decision to rebuild. We weren't going to win a championship with Mike Bibby at PG. He might have gotten us 5 more wins and less ping pong balls. We would have ended up with a pick in the 5-8 range and probably ended up with Rubio or Curry.

Don't say that name too loud or some people may pass out with excitement.
 
Please. Stop posting and saying this deal doesn't hurt the team. It does. Read some of the cap space posts. A lot of doors closed because of this move. Sure, the Maloofs got a little richer, but the deal itself did hurt the Kings.

Actually, I think the deal may have in some ways increased cap flexibility for future trades. Hear me out.

First off, let me reiterate a point that has been noted before in this thread: because we are not over the cap, Hilton (I accidentally typed "Shelden" at first, ha!) can be packaged with other players without a waiting period. This is important.

Now, before acquiring Armstrong we were about $4M under the cap. That meant that we could absorb up to $4M extra in a trade without the trade having to comply with the 125% rule. For instance, we could send out $6M in salary (e.g. Beno) and acquire $10M in salary, and still be under the cap, so the 125% rule would not apply. However, we could not have sent out $6M in salary and acquired $11M in salary - that would have put us over the cap and the deal would not have been under the 125% rule. We would have had to add salary to our side of the trade - but May would not be enough (barely) and we're basically using everybody else with a small contract.

After acquiring Armstrong we're only about $1M under the cap. We can't send out $6M in salary and acquire $10M, because we would be over the cap and the 125% rule does not apply. But we can send out $6M plus Armstrong ($2.8M) - that's totally within the 125% rule. Furthermore, now we could send out $6M + Armstrong ($8.8M total) and get $11M back, just barely.

So basically here are our limits for a few scenarios, before and after Armstrong:

Trade Beno ($6M): about $10M, still under cap
Trade Beno + Armstrong ($8.8M): about $11M, 125% rule

Trade Beno + May ($6.85M): about $10.85M, still under cap
Trade Beno + May + Armstrong ($9.65M) : about $12M, 125% rule

Trade Nocioni ($7.5M): about $11.5M, still under cap
Trade Nocioni + Armstrong ($10.3M) : about $13M, 125% rule

Trade Nocioni + May ($8.35M): about $12.35M, still under cap
Trade Nocioni + May + Armstrong ($11.15M) : about $14M, 125% rule

Trade Nocioni + Beno + May ($14.35M): about $18.35M, still under cap
Trade Nocioni + Beno + May + Armstrong ($17.15M): about $21.5M, 125% rule

So it turns out that we can actually absorb more money in contracts now than we could before acquiring Armstrong (about $1M for trading Beno alone, over $3M for Nocioni + Beno + May). On the other hand, in order to do it, we have to send out that extra $2.8M Armstrong contract (which by the trade deadline will actually be prorated to under $1.4M). There's some give and take - teams really looking to save money (e.g. luxury tax concerns) can't do as much savings using our cap space now. But, if we're trying to grab a big contract, the maximum contract that we can bring back is now bigger.
 
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we got a rent-a-big man 90day free trial. its not gonna effect us long term anyway. he's gone after this season anyway, so why not.
 
Ignorant viewpoint. First off, it DOES hurt the team by losing the pick (which is far more valuable in GP's hands during a draft instead of included in another pointless GP deal). Second, you shouldn't judge a deal by how much it hurts the team, but by how much it improves it. If the best thing you can say about a deal is that it's a wash because it doesn't hurt, then it's a bad deal. Deals should help the team, not be meaningless.

A second round conditional pick six years from now, which I take to mean that if we win the championship, we lose our pick. That pick is six years down the road and while his track record n the first round is essentially impeccable, Petrie's choices in the second round have included such stars as Rodney Buford, Jabari Smith, and Mini Patrick Ewing Junior.

Remember those guys? Didn't think so.
 
A second round conditional pick six years from now, which I take to mean that if we win the championship, we lose our pick. That pick is six years down the road and while his track record n the first round is essentially impeccable, Petrie's choices in the second round have included such stars as Rodney Buford, Jabari Smith, and Mini Patrick Ewing Junior.

Remember those guys? Didn't think so.
Most second round draftees are eminently qualified to be forgotten.
 
I did it quick...and I'm bored..LOL

ARMSTRONG.jpg



I just noticed I forgot the hornets logo on his shorts..
 
First off, let me reiterate a point that has been noted before in this thread: because we are not over the cap, Hilton (I accidentally typed "Shelden" at first, ha!) can be packaged with other players without a waiting period. This is important.


Link to that rule?

That would in fact eliminate most of the financial downside to this trade, and could even make it a precursor to something bigger.
 
Link to that rule?

That would in fact eliminate most of the financial downside to this trade, and could even make it a precursor to something bigger.
Well supposedly we can trade him right away, because he was not traded to us with other players. Unless I missed something here or read it wrong.

[URL="http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q87"]http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q87[/URL]

In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:
  • For two months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 74 for a special case where players can be traded together in less than two months.)
 
Link to that rule?

That would in fact eliminate most of the financial downside to this trade, and could even make it a precursor to something bigger.
Its on Larry Coon's page under the text of the same rule that has been linked to repeatedly.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q87
In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

* For two months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 74 for a special case where players can be traded together in less than two months.)
 
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A second round conditional pick six years from now, which I take to mean that if we win the championship, we lose our pick. That pick is six years down the road and while his track record n the first round is essentially impeccable, Petrie's choices in the second round have included such stars as Rodney Buford, Jabari Smith, and Mini Patrick Ewing Junior.

Remember those guys? Didn't think so.
Yes, I do remember those players. But that's not the point. The point is that most people won't remember Sean May or Hilton a few years from now either, just as most don't remember Jabari Smith. So why make yet another meaningless move? It's the equivalent of trading FOR Jabari Smith. Why do it?

And again, I don't want to hear one more response with "it doesn't hurt". The point of deals is to put the team in position to IMPROVE. So if this deal doesn't lead to another deal, then it hasn't helped one bit, and it's a meaningless move.
 
If I understand those rules correctly this trade really has no negative at all (not that it had much to begin with). Hilton can be combined in any trade already since we're under the cap..good news.
 
Yes, I do remember those players. But that's not the point. The point is that most people won't remember Sean May or Hilton a few years from now either, just as most don't remember Jabari Smith. So why make yet another meaningless move? It's the equivalent of trading FOR Jabari Smith. Why do it?

And again, I don't want to hear one more response with "it doesn't hurt". The point of deals is to put the team in position to IMPROVE. So if this deal doesn't lead to another deal, then it hasn't helped one bit, and it's a meaningless move.

Because it at least gives us another big man who isn't fatter than he is tall. Hilton can most likely contribute more than May unless he really really sucks which isn't saying much since I could probably contribute more than Sean May.
 
If I understand those rules correctly this trade really has no negative at all (not that it had much to begin with). Hilton can be combined in any trade already since we're under the cap..good news.
Is that before or after taking into account cap holds? All players who haven't officially retired but last played for the Kings take up salary cap hold room, making the Kings technically over the cap.
 
Is that before or after taking into account cap holds? All players who haven't officially retired but last played for the Kings take up salary cap hold room, making the Kings technically over the cap.

If we were technically over the cap, we couldn't have acquired Armstrong without trading a contract in return.
 
Yes, I do remember those players. But that's not the point. The point is that most people won't remember Sean May or Hilton a few years from now either, just as most don't remember Jabari Smith. So why make yet another meaningless move? It's the equivalent of trading FOR Jabari Smith. Why do it?

And again, I don't want to hear one more response with "it doesn't hurt". The point of deals is to put the team in position to IMPROVE. So if this deal doesn't lead to another deal, then it hasn't helped one bit, and it's a meaningless move.

You do it because there is much more to the NBA than what happens on the court. Its also a business and this was a business move, at least thats what I see it as. Some say its part of something bigger but I'll believe that when I see it. Looks like a chance to make some $ and really nothing to do with what happens on the court. At least not directly anyway.
 
I remember alot of people pining over Armstrong a few years back when he was drafted. Same can be said for Sheldon Williams. Its amazing what the NBA can do to a big man. Same goes for Yi Jiljian
 
I'm a wait and see type of the guy. Either this guy will be the 2nd coming of Shaq or Petrie has a master plan to get the Kings Bosh or something.

In either case, I'm going to ROFL at everyone bashing the guy if he comes in and averages 20/10 and 3 blocks a game. :p
 
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