Kings 3-0 without Tyreke...

[VF21]

Ah...threads like these take me back to the days of Webber. About the time I quit defending Kings fans to outside peeps.

You know who else would be an "ill-fitting piece" for this team? Dwayne Wade. You know, after we moved him off the ball to SF and told him to spot up. In fact regardless of what Reke is or is not, you can make any great player an ill fitting piece -- just move him out of position and take the ball out of his hands. How do you think DRose would do at SF after we gave the ball to IT? I would ask how you do think Westbrook would do, except Westbrook is fierce and selfish enough IT would porobably go missing and Westbrook wold show up to practice the next day with a bloody ball and a self satisfied smirk on his face. The question isn't turning a great player into an ill-fitting piece. That part's easy (even premeditated?). The question is if you're a stupid enough franchise to do such a thing. You have the potential to make the very worst mistake in the history of the Sacto era, and there have been some doosies.

Word.

 

[swisshh]

Well, like I said with the 6-4 thread, what you can see vs the Nets is that its silly to try to judge the team on W/L streaks when they only show up for marquee teams.

 

[kingsnation]

Ah...threads like these take me back to the days of Webber. About the time I quit defending Kings fans to outside peeps.

You know who else would be an "ill-fitting piece" for this team? Dwayne Wade. You know, after we moved him off the ball to SF and told him to spot up. In fact regardless of what Reke is or is not, you can make any great player an ill fitting piece -- just move him out of position and take the ball out of his hands. How do you think DRose would do at SF after we gave the ball to IT? I would ask how you do think Westbrook would do, except Westbrook is fierce and selfish enough IT would porobably go missing and Westbrook wold show up to practice the next day with a bloody ball and a self satisfied smirk on his face. The question isn't turning a great player into an ill-fitting piece. That part's easy (even premeditated?). The question is if you're a stupid enough franchise to do such a thing. You have the potential to make the very worst mistake in the history of the Sacto era, and there have been some doosies.

There is no need for me to post in this thread because everything I would say was already well said. ^^^

 

[Kingster]

Some of the people making the comments are big fans of Tyreke, so there's no hate there. Just critical observations. One way to settle this argument is to put Tyreke as the starter at SG and let Thornton come off the bench for the rest of the season and see how it works. Sometimes, it comes down to a matter of how the pieces fit together. I don't think anyone can deny that we have a problem in that area. The question is, how do we fix it? The truth is, Tyreke is a very popular player, and however you answer that question, your going to upset someone. I was one of the few, including Kingster, (I have to mention him or he'll get mad) that promoted drafting Tyreke, so I certainly don't hate him. But at the moment, he appears to be the ill fitting piece on the team. I agree with Bricky that sending Tyreke to the bench is not the answer. Do that and you run the risk of his walking away when his contract is up.

So trading him may be the best answer. But not just for the sake of trading him. You have to get value. Regardless of anyone's personal opinion, he's a very good and unique player that was ROY. I think Tyreke would flourish in the right system. So you have to get value!! The last thing you want is to trade a good player, and then watch him lead another team to a championship. As Bill Walsh used to say. "Its better to trade a player one year too early, than one year too late."

I also think Smart should experiment with Tyreke at the 2 with IT. Can't hurt. Just wondering maybe if he experimented with it in practice and it didn't work out so well.

 

[ParniValjak]

I also think Smart should experiment with Tyreke at the 2 with IT. Can't hurt. Just wondering maybe if he experimented with it in practice and it didn't work out so well.

I would not mind that at all. However, would much rather prefer he try Tyreke and Williams backcourt for a number of games. I am convinced that it would be great both offensively and defensively.

 

[Kingster]

I would not mind that at all. However, would much rather prefer he try Tyreke and Williams backcourt for a number of games. I am convinced that it would be great both offensively and defensively.

I doubt it. I like Williams, but I don't think he has the skills to be a point guard.

 

[est.1999]

And the kings are 18-34 without me; what's your point?

 

[Gilles]

First, at the same point in his career Dwayne Wade was the leader of Marquette. Remember when Kevin Martin came everybody had an idea what type of player he will be and he was guided by the coaching staff. He was given footage of Miller's and Hmilton's play. Btw Wade came to a young veteran team with Riley at the helm.
Now Tyreke. He was moved on the ball only mid-season in Memphis and it wasn't a classic PG role. Then he came to Sacramento and was put into PG position. And all his coaching consisted of "Good job!" after every 1-4 isolation play. Little veteran presence, laid back coach, no strong presence in his family. He finally got progress this summer so Kings stick him at SF. Kings have no vision what he should be, at least no clear one. As for Tyreke being dumb at least he's not throwing his ball off his foot with no pressure after playing PG his whole life.

 

[kingjatt]

I don't think Reke fits at all with the current roster, sure he has his nights, he's a big time talent, he just hasnt been coached well or put in a position to succeed. the FO would be nuts to trade him, under good coaching, a balanced roster (w/veterans and shooters) he would be an absolute monster.

 

[mac]

First, at the same point in his career Dwayne Wade was the leader of Marquette. Remember when Kevin Martin came everybody had an idea what type of player he will be and he was guided by the coaching staff. He was given footage of Miller's and Hmilton's play. Btw Wade came to a young veteran team with Riley at the helm.
Now Tyreke. He was moved on the ball only mid-season in Memphis and it wasn't a classic PG role. Then he came to Sacramento and was put into PG position. And all his coaching consisted of "Good job!" after every 1-4 isolation play. Little veteran presence, laid back coach, no strong presence in his family. He finally got progress this summer so Kings stick him at SF. Kings have no vision what he should be, at least no clear one. As for Tyreke being dumb at least he's not throwing his ball off his foot with no pressure after playing PG his whole life.

Yeowch. Well on the bright side, I thought he played really well against the Nets. Was setting guys up and scoring too. A few costly turnovers but those are to be expected when we're trying to put up points in a hurry in order to get back into the game.

 

[ParniValjak]

Yeowch. Well on the bright side, I thought he played really well against the Nets. Was setting guys up and scoring too. A few costly turnovers but those are to be expected when we're trying to put up points in a hurry in order to get back into the game.

Tyreke is by far and I mean by FAR the best perimeter player that we have and a clear #2 behind Cousins. His game today was excellent and was probably cheated out of 1 steal in the 4th quarter. Officially he was 1 steal short of doing something rare. 20/5/5/5.

People don't like him because he can't shoot and they don't like the style that he plays but his style is built for play-off success and the sooner our coach and front office realise this, the better off we will be. With his lack of shooting, there will be times when he will struggle from the field but overall he one heck of a player. Now people may not like his style but that does not mean they are right. Give me Tyreke Evans over any other shooter/non-defender in the league any day of the week.

Even when opposition pack the paint to prevent his elite penetration skills it means they are gearing their whole defence to stop him. By default, that means there will be someone out there that will be more open than usual. Its up to our front office and the coach, to get the mix right so that Tyreke and Cousins are surrounded by players who can be effective without being ball dominant. The type of players that can make the opposition pay when they dare to pack the paint waiting for Tyreke or when they dare to double or triple team Cousins.

Great coaches would build around Cousins and Evans and make other pieces fit. Great coaches would NEVER try to fit either of those 2 players around other players that are not at their level. We are doing it back to front and the results are evident.

 

[Lockehead]

Great coaches would build around Cousins and Evans and make other pieces fit. Great coaches would NEVER try to fit either of those 2 players around other players that are not at their level. We are doing it back to front and the results are evident.

Don't forget that it's not just about getting your best players to be at their best, but also to let them develop their best. For us that might mean having IT at the PG position and not Tyreke, and JT as the center and not DMC.

Tyreke has to be our #2 guy after Cousins. And we have to put him in the position to be the #2 guy. Cousins, at this point, is our #1 without a doubt. Where do you put Evans to be the #2 guy? I highly doubt its at the PG, and to add to that the SF positon as well. That leaves the #2, which is also his natural position. So to me, it's a no brainer really. He's a scorer, you put him at the 2 guard position, and he becomes a better scorer. And we can have a PG at the 1, and Cousins playing his game, and Evans his, and we can function as a team with our main guys playing their positions. It might just be as simple as that.

 

[mac]

Tyreke is by far and I mean by FAR the best perimeter player that we have and a clear #2 behind Cousins. His game today was excellent and was probably cheated out of 1 steal in the 4th quarter. Officially he was 1 steal short of doing something rare. 20/5/5/5.

People don't like him because he can't shoot and they don't like the style that he plays but his style is built for play-off success and the sooner our coach and front office realise this, the better off we will be. With his lack of shooting, there will be times when he will struggle from the field but overall he one heck of a player. Now people may not like his style but that does not mean they are right. Give me Tyreke Evans over any other shooter/non-defender in the league any day of the week.

Even when opposition pack the paint to prevent his elite penetration skills it means they are gearing their whole defence to stop him. By default, that means there will be someone out there that will be more open than usual. Its up to our front office and the coach, to get the mix right so that Tyreke and Cousins are surrounded by players who can be effective without being ball dominant. The type of players that can make the opposition pay when they dare to pack the paint waiting for Tyreke or when they dare to double or triple team Cousins.

Great coaches would build around Cousins and Evans and make other pieces fit. Great coaches would NEVER try to fit either of those 2 players around other players that are not at their level. We are doing it back to front and the results are evident.

Well to be fair I think a lot of the criticism he gets is fairly valid - he really HASN'T shown improvement in his game. The problem with Tyreke is that he hasn't been given a chance to flourish in a proper system to produce winning results. I too would take him over many "shooting" guards that don't play D, but the problem is Smart has the team playing in a way that would benefit such guards over those like Tyreke. The question is - how much has the organisation really put into developing Tyreke Evans? They brought along Cousins' ex-coach, got rid of Westphal who was banging heads with Cousins, brought in a big man coach etc. What have they done for Tyreke? Smart started on the path of getting him to be more of a PG, and results were showing! But then we prematurely cut that off and moved him to friggin SF of all positions.

I agree entirely about how we have to surround him with the right guys to get the best out of him. That's especially important at this point because he doesn't have an outside game (but it's been getting better the past few games!). It's up to organisation to value what Tyreke brings to the team as well as his potential, and put in the effort to develop him as a player. They can't fix his jumpshot, which is what he ultimately needs to bring his game to a higher level, so that's on him. But there's really no point in him getting a jumpshot if at the end of the day we're still going to simply leave him in the corner all day long.

It's just like giving Smart his extension. By doing so the FO shows that it has confidence in Smart, and from there it's up to Smart to be a good coach, no excuses. In the same way, putting Tyreke in a position to succeed shows confidence and sends a message to him - Hey, we expect you to be the best or 2nd best guy on the team and to lead us to victory with Cousins. We'll do what we can to make up for your weaknesses and take advantage of your strengths. The rest is on you to prove that our confidence is not misplaced.

 

[ParniValjak]

Don't forget that it's not just about getting your best players to be at their best, but also to let them develop their best. For us that might mean having IT at the PG position and not Tyreke, and JT as the center and not DMC.

Tyreke has to be our #2 guy after Cousins. And we have to put him in the position to be the #2 guy. Cousins, at this point, is our #1 without a doubt. Where do you put Evans to be the #2 guy? I highly doubt its at the PG, and to add to that the SF positon as well. That leaves the #2, which is also his natural position. So to me, it's a no brainer really. He's a scorer, you put him at the 2 guard position, and he becomes a better scorer. And we can have a PG at the 1, and Cousins playing his game, and Evans his, and we can function as a team with our main guys playing their positions. It might just be as simple as that.

It is as simple as that!

 

[Gary]

If he doesn't fit then he doesn't fit.. #2 or #3 player... If someone doesn't fit with how the team plays the game then it's most likely not going to work. Carmello Anthony is a player who is a tremendous individual talent, but when he gets injured why did the Knicks seem to do better?

When you force a guy to be a #2 option in an offense that doesn't play to his style then bad thing happen. When you do give him free reign and allow him to dictate the offense then the other four players suffer.

And no, Evans is not the best perimeter player on our team. Unless you're counting defense. If it's just offense then MT is probably our best player.

 

[Tetsujin]

If he doesn't fit then he doesn't fit.. #2 or #3 player... If someone doesn't fit with how the team plays the game then it's most likely not going to work. Carmello Anthony is a player who is a tremendous individual talent, but when he gets injured why did the Knicks seem to do better?

When you force a guy to be a #2 option in an offense that doesn't play to his style then bad thing happen. When you do give him free reign and allow him to dictate the offense then the other four players suffer.

And no, Evans is not the best perimeter player on our team. Unless you're counting defense. If it's just offense then MT is probably our best player.

Not necessarily. MT is a better streak shooter than Reke but has stretches where he forgets what defense is and stretches of tunnel vision that would make Allen Iverson blush. He also lacks Reke's sure-fire penetrating ability.

 

[ParniValjak]

If he doesn't fit then he doesn't fit.. #2 or #3 player... If someone doesn't fit with how the team plays the game then it's most likely not going to work. Carmello Anthony is a player who is a tremendous individual talent, but when he gets injured why did the Knicks seem to do better?

When you force a guy to be a #2 option in an offense that doesn't play to his style then bad thing happen. When you do give him free reign and allow him to dictate the offense then the other four players suffer.

And no, Evans is not the best perimeter player on our team. Unless you're counting defense. If it's just offense then MT is probably our best player.

Except there is one MASSIVE flaw with your argument - DEFENSE!

Melo plays none, and has no scope of every becoming a good defender. Tyreke is a good defender now and has the potential to be an elite defender.

Furthermore, his game fits with Cousins' game and that is all that really matter in all this. Your 2 stars have games that are compatible. Both still have a hell of a lot to learn and areas to develop but their core games fit well. If they develop those aspects of their games, their games become even more compatible.

Melo always was and always will be a nightmare fit with the Knicks. I couldn't believe when people were saying how Amare-Melo partnership was going to make the Knicks a contender. They are not very compatible as players at all and neither could guard a chair.

The important thing is that the games of your 2 stars are compatible and everyone else needs to fit around that. If they don't then they get shipped off. You build your team around those 2 guys and the style that is suitable to them and winning. You don't come in with a style you want to play and fit your players in it. Just does not work that way.

 

[The_Jamal]

ha, i don't even need to read this thread to know what happened

 

[UK_King]

This is getting worse than the twilight fans.

Team REKE!

 

[twslam07]

Reke is being played out of position. It is that simple. No way of knowing this, but it might be possible that Smart might be afraid of moving Thornton to the bench. After all he is a players coach and might be worried about upsetting and losing Thornton if he were to move him there.

If I were Smart, this is the lineup I would tryout:

Thomas/Fredette
Evans/Thornton/Garcia
Williams/Salmons/Greene/Outlaw/Honeycutt
Thompson/Hayes
Cousins/Whiteside

Thomas, Evans, and Williams are all good defenders, good rebounders, good playmakers, and good athletes. Then you have Fredette, Thornton, and Salmons coming off the bench who can all hit the 3 and provide bench points. I think it would be an interesting lineup to see in action for the remainder of the season, but perhaps it's for the best if we are able to get Davis or MKG out of this bad rotation.

 

[Kingsguy881]

This should not be a bash Tyreke thread. Tyreke is my boy. I want to see him succeed more than the next guy. But how can the team incorporate his game into what they do without him to make them better?

 

[gunks]

I don't think Reke fits at all with the current roster, sure he has his nights, he's a big time talent, he just hasnt been coached well or put in a position to succeed. the FO would be nuts to trade him, under good coaching, a balanced roster (w/veterans and shooters) he would be an absolute monster.

This.

Its not that Reke = losses. Its that Reke/IT/MT = losses. We have 3 guys who want a lot of shots, one of them is short, the other plays no D, and the third is playing out of position.

Reke needs to play next to a PG for the team to be effective. He also isnt a 3, that kills us on defense. Unfortunately, brilliant mastermind GP has put together a roster that has 2 of our best 3 players being natural 2s. Thornton has been beastin it lately, but Reke>>>>Thornton, and until one of the two is shipped out, we're going to have an unbalanced, no D playin team.

 

[Section 101]

This.

Its not that Reke = losses. Its that Reke/IT/MT = losses. We have 3 guys who want a lot of shots, one of them is short, the other plays no D, and the third is playing out of position.

Reke needs to play next to a PG for the team to be effective. He also isnt a 3, that kills us on defense. Unfortunately, brilliant mastermind GP has put together a roster that has 2 of our best 3 players being natural 2s. Thornton has been beastin it lately, but Reke>>>>Thornton, and until one of the two is shipped out, we're going to have an unbalanced, no D playin team.

It's funny how people keep saying the IT wants a bunch of shots. He's only been taking 8.2 shots per game on the year. And before people start saying what about since he became a starter, he averaged 9.6 in Feb and 9.7 in march. His shooting % were .464, .391 (3pt) for Feb and .480,.365(3pt) in March. His number of shots per game is on the average to low side for starting point guards.

As for Evans his shot attempts by month starting with Jan are 15,15.9,14.6. So he's still getting the same number of shots with IT at the point. Oh and I will add it's been his 3pt attempts that were the major drop going from 2.3 in Jan, 1.9 in Feb and 1.3 in March. Which should happen with his 3pt shooting %. Oh, Evans shot .498 overall in March his best month and second best % per month of his career since Feb of his rookie year when he shot .505. Since that.505% he hasn't had any months over .450 (2 months Jan and mar last year where exactly .450).

So while people are complaining about how Evans is being used, March was in fact his best month shooting since Feb of his rookie year.

 

[gunks]

IT has his shot happy moments. Last two games he's settled down a bit.

And its not really Reke's offense that has me irked about him playing the 3, but his D. He was a great defender at the 2 (usually), not so much at the 3.

I just dont like smallball. We're scoring a lot, but losing games on D. IT/MT/Reke as starters is to blame. I'd prefer a fullsized line up. We are REALLY small until you get to the frontcourt. IT: 5'9, MT: 6'4, Reke: 6'6'.

I think that with experience and more gel time, our starting 5 could be a fun and highscoring bunch...But our team will be a 9th seed year in and year out. Warriors 2.0.

 

[Mal]

"Here's another question to ponder. Name another coach in the league misusing a talent on Reke's level to the extent Smart is"

Really? How is it, that on average, Reke has been outplayed by his counterpart on the opposing team at every position he has played? I'm writing of overall productiveness (PER) not just scoring. His best position is SG where he has been outplayed by the smallest margin. Worst position is point guard where opponents have a 40% productivity average over Evans.

 

[Bricklayer]

"Here's another question to ponder. Name another coach in the league misusing a talent on Reke's level to the extent Smart is"

Really? How is it, that on average, Reke has been outplayed by his counterpart on the opposing team at every position he has played? I'm writing of overall productiveness (PER) not just scoring. His best position is SG where he has been outplayed by the smallest margin. Worst position is point guard where opponents have a 40% productivity average over Evans.

I can't tell if you are another one of the intentionally dense posters we get aorund here or not, but Tyreke rarely guards his own man making those stats next to worthless.

 

[Section 101]

I can't tell if you are another one of the intentionally dense posters we get aorund here or not, but Tyreke rarely guards his own man making those stats next to worthless.

So you admit Evans doesn't guard his man now !!!!

Think you meant guard his counterpart which is true if you think Evans is a PG. Otherwise, he's guarding SG and SF.

 

[Kingsguy881]

So you admit Evans doesn't guard his man now !!!!

Think you meant guard his counterpart which is true if you think Evans is a PG. Otherwise, he's guarding SG and SF.

Honestly I wish Reke gave 100% effort on the defensive end, with his length and lateral quickness he can lock down pretty much any 1 or 2 in the league, and most 3s to boot.

 

[ParniValjak]

"Here's another question to ponder. Name another coach in the league misusing a talent on Reke's level to the extent Smart is"

Really? How is it, that on average, Reke has been outplayed by his counterpart on the opposing team at every position he has played? I'm writing of overall productiveness (PER) not just scoring. His best position is SG where he has been outplayed by the smallest margin. Worst position is point guard where opponents have a 40% productivity average over Evans.

Surely you can't be that dense?!

Do you actually watch games? Have you made one post, just one where it has not had anti-Reke tones to it?!

 

[Spike]

So you admit Evans doesn't guard his man now !!!!


Think you meant guard his counterpart which is true if you think Evans is a PG. Otherwise, he's guarding SG and SF.

Troll much?
I think the intent was clear, meaning Evans is usually charged with guarding the opposition's best player unless he is a post, whereas someone like MT or IT will usually be matched against the weaker player. The problem is when smallball happens, and you can't hide one on the weaker guard.