Kevin Martin = Manu Ginobili

[CaminoChaos]

After watching the Kings play without Kevin for the past few game they have more than hold there own. I know trading him has come up quite a bit here and on the radio but what about bringing him off the bench and put him in a Ginobili type role.

Doing this would bring Martin into the game when the opposing teams bench wing is on the floor. Since most of the 2nd string wingmen are not a offensive threat that allows us not to have a defensive liability at the SG position.

Another way to look at it is after the opposing starter has chased Evans around for a majority of the 1st quarter you bring Martin to wear him out some more making him less effective on the offensive side.

Just a thought.

 

[Kingsguy881]

If Westphal can get Martin to buy into the team defense, scrappy hustling play they have been showing then no. You bring Cisco in off the bench in the Ginobli role.

 

[CruzDude]

Agree 100% to the Cisco = Ginobli role in couple of months. When both Martin and Cisco are back, what an awesome rotation cast the Kings will have. But gotta see what May develops into as to a "Big" role....or not. Current roster is 14 including Kevin and Cisco. So unless a 2-for-1 trade ensues for a BIG to replace May, that could well be the roster through January.

 

[tyrant]

i think they should just play and let their performance decide who shall have 6th man honors. the only thing im concerned about is staying at or above .500. no tinkering with the starting lineup, theyre doing great

 

[Kings Faithful]

Agree 100% to the Cisco = Ginobli role in couple of months. When both Martin and Cisco are back, what an awesome rotation cast the Kings will have. But gotta see what May develops into as to a "Big" role....or not. Current roster is 14 including Kevin and Cisco. So unless a 2-for-1 trade ensues for a BIG to replace May, that could well be the roster through January.

This team has the heart and hustle to make the playoffs... however I still think we don't have the talent. If, by God, their is some chance we can do it, I think its going to require trade a trade to the aforementioned big man. Someone like Samuel Dalembert off the bench would be great.

 

[6th]

You cannot bring the team's leading scorer, and 3rd highest scorer in the NBA, in off the bench.

Kevin has a lot of quickness. He has got to be convinced to put more effort and energy into the defensive end, but not at the expense of his 30 pts per game.

Teach Kevin how to come back into this great group of kids and keep their flow going.

 

[CruzDude]

You cannot bring the team's leading scorer, and 3rd highest scorer in the NBA, in off the bench.

Kevin has a lot of quickness. He has got to be convinced to put more effort and energy into the defensive end, but not at the expense of his 30 pts per game.

Teach Kevin how to come back into this great group of kids and keep their flow going.

Smart comment and right on.

 

[rainmaker]

No way.
I believe Tyreke and Kevin have the potential to become one of the top 5 backcourts in the league, especially with Kevin appearing to commit to defense. Yes the Kings have won 3 in a row since Kevin went out, but I'm far from jumping to the conclusion that the Kings are better with out Kevin or that he should come off the bench.

 

[tyrant]

tyreke and kevin are two good individual players. doesn’t mean they play well together. we are at .500 no thanks to martin. its all tyreke, beno and thompson with a hint of casspi. we are immediately seeing the difference between a player that can do more than hit a few jumpers and draw fouls and a player that cant

 

[nickmcclure]

You cannot bring the team's leading scorer, and 3rd highest scorer in the NBA, in off the bench.

Kevin has a lot of quickness. He has got to be convinced to put more effort and energy into the defensive end, but not at the expense of his 30 pts per game.

Teach Kevin how to come back into this great group of kids and keep their flow going.

Agreed.

 

[rainmaker]

tyreke and kevin are two good individual players. doesn’t mean they play well together. we are at .500 no thanks to martin. its all tyreke, beno and thompson with a hint of casspi. we are immediately seeing the difference between a player that can do more than hit a few jumpers and draw fouls and a player that cant

It also doesn't mean they don't play well together, its way to early to make that decision. As for us being better without Martin, there's also the fact that when you're leading scorer goes down everyone else has to step up. Lets wait 2 months and see how this team does over an extended period of time without Martin. I know one thing, Kevin wasn't the problem when we lost a few games to start the season. If anything, he was the reason a few of the games were even close. I remember thinking after the first few games that Kevin needs some help out there. If these young guys keep developing and we bring back a healed Kevin, this team could go on a roll. Or not. We don't know. Thats why we have to wait and see without jumping to decisions after 3 games, which isn't a smart thing to do.

 

[CBO]

Hi, first post other than in the new-member lounge.

Kevin coming off the bench is an interesting idea. It definitely would be a good idea to bring Kevin back that way to let him adjust to an offense that does not need him to be THE MAN. However, once he is integrated, he needs to start.

I've read over and over that Kevin is not a #1 guy on a championship team (or a good team for that matter). This injury may be the catalyst to start playing an offense where he is #2 or #3. While he is out, the #1 (Evans) and potential #2 (Thompson/Greene/etc.) can establish themselves as such. Then, when Martin comes back, he is that lethal #2 or 3 option. To me, it seems like this is heading in the direction that so many posters have talked about.

Man, I am excited about this team. I just wish I could afford NBA LP.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

If we manage to stay around .500, Martin will come back from his injury and he will have to find a way to be useful to the team. It will be a smaller role than before; and if all he does is score points, then 6th man off the bench is probably the best place for him. The Kings are scoring enough points to win games.

That said, it does seem like a bit of a waste of his value, which is why trading him looks more appealing.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Ball movement has been better without Martin so when he comes back it needs to continue to be like that.

Too many times with great scorers players tend to stand around and watch him.

I'd love Martin off the bench, focus all his energy for 25 minutes instead of conserving it for 40 plus...we all know how quickly he can score 20 points but making as much as he does you can't have a bench player making that much forever.

I don't really know what I want, Martin starting/coming off the bench/traded. All could be beneficial.

 

[kupman]

You cannot bring the team's leading scorer, and 3rd highest scorer in the NBA, in off the bench.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Havlicek


If this guy can come off the bench, cetainly Kmart can come off the bench. I suppose Kevin McHale would be another great example of what a 6th man can become.

personally, I think it would be awesome if both Cisco and Kmart came of the bench when they are healthy. We would have the young guns going for 8-10 minutes and just when they are getting tired the other team would be like "crap, now here comes Cisco and Kmart."

 

[Bricklayer]

You just aren't going to convince a major scorer who's not only used to starting, but pretty much to having things centered around him, to come off the bench like that. Particularly not since I assume this is a way to try to have our cake and eat it too -- to play all our scrappers AND somehow play Kevin. Means a big drop in minutes for him if its possible at all, and that won't make him happy either.

 

[rhythmless]

You cannot bring the team's leading scorer, and 3rd highest scorer in the NBA, in off the bench.

Kevin has a lot of quickness. He has got to be convinced to put more effort and energy into the defensive end, but not at the expense of his 30 pts per game.

Teach Kevin how to come back into this great group of kids and keep their flow going.

Pretty much done thread here.

Only in KF can you find someone who wants to stick a guy who was doing 30/5/3/2 and think to bring him off the bench.

 

[tyrant]

Pretty much done thread here.

Only in KF can you find someone who wants to stick a guy who was doing 30/5/3/2 and think to bring him off the bench.

and when was the last time we were .500?

 

[kupman]

Pretty much done thread here.

Only in KF can you find someone who wants to stick a guy who was doing 30/5/3/2 and think to bring him off the bench.

KF and Red Auerbach.

 

[dbfish]

Martin = Ginobili?

First you have to get Martin to buy into 1. Coming off the bench and 2. Playing defense.
Comparing Martin and Ginobili.
Ginobili shoots the three - Martin shoots thr three.
Ginobili gets to the freethrow line - Martin gets to the freethrow line.
Ginobili has a history of injuries.- Martin has a history of injuries.
Ginobili plays defense and dives for loose ball.- Martin doesn't.

All this said, when he comes back he starts and things will fall into place one way or another.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

If the biggest problem with this idea is assuaging Kevin's ego, then the idea isn't sunk. It just kicks it to Westphal's side of the court.

 

[ParniValjak]

Agree 100% to the Cisco = Ginobli role in couple of months. When both Martin and Cisco are back, what an awesome rotation cast the Kings will have. But gotta see what May develops into as to a "Big" role....or not. Current roster is 14 including Kevin and Cisco. So unless a 2-for-1 trade ensues for a BIG to replace May, that could well be the roster through January.

Ideally, you want to pair Evans with a player who can handle the ball, pass well, play some scrappy D and hit a deep open shot. IMHO, Garcia would be a better fit next to Evans.

Now we all know that Garcia is not as good a player as Kevin, but in terms of overall better fit, Garcia is a much more complementary player to Evans than Martin.

You start Evans and Cisco as your backcourt and bring Martin off the bench and at times you can have all 3 on the floor at the same time. Martin would terorise the opposition's defence coming off the bench.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Ideally, you want to pair Evans with a player who can handle the ball, pass well, play some scrappy D and hit a deep open shot. IMHO, Garcia would be a better fit next to Evans.

Now we all know that Garcia is not as good a player as Kevin, but in terms of overall better fit, Garcia is a much more complementary player to Evans than Martin.

You start Evans and Cisco as your backcourt and bring Martin off the bench and at times you can have all 3 on the floor at the same time. Martin would terorise the opposition's defence coming off the bench.

With that logic why not just go ahead and start Evans, Cisco and Martin like Westphal had planned all along to start the season????

 

[ParniValjak]

With that logic why not just go ahead and start Evans, Cisco and Martin like Westphal had planned all along to start the season????

Then you have nothing of significance coming off the bench to give you that spark when you need it. Other than maybe Casspi.

 

[Bricklayer]

With that logic why not just go ahead and start Evans, Cisco and Martin like Westphal had planned all along to start the season????

Perhaps because we have suddenly discovered that the 5 year reign of softness around here wasn;t entirely coincidence, and reinstating it is not in the best interests of anybody, besides perhaps Las Vegas/Anaheim?

 

[tyrant]

You just aren't going to convince a major scorer who's not only used to starting, but pretty much to having things centered around him, to come off the bench like that. Particularly not since I assume this is a way to try to have our cake and eat it too -- to play all our scrappers AND somehow play Kevin. Means a big drop in minutes for him if its possible at all, and that won't make him happy either.

i think we should turn this into a poll

 

[Kingsguy881]

Perhaps because we have suddenly discovered that the 5 year reign of softness around here wasn;t entirely coincidence, and reinstating it is not in the best interests of anybody, besides perhaps Las Vegas/Anaheim?

2/3 of the players I mentioned are not necessarily noted for backing down from a challenge. And with Beno and Noc/Casspi/Greene coming in off the bench, I think that would leave us with some decent bench production.

 

[CruzDude]

and when was the last time we were .500?

DECEMBER 2006! ! ! 3 BLOODY YEARS ! !

 

[Bricklayer]

2/3 of the players I mentioned are not necessarily noted for backing down from a challenge. And with Beno and Noc/Casspi/Greene coming in off the bench, I think that would leave us with some decent bench production.

That may be true, but Cisco is a very soft SF -- he's too small, and can't rebound the position at all, let alone body anybody up. Put him at SG, and you have toughness. Move him to SF, and we're soft. Move him to SF while we move Kevin back in at SG...and we have last year.

 

[AriesMar27]

i was thinking, what is our most complete starting 5? not just our 5 best players, but what is our most complete overall lineup? scoring, passing, defense, rebounding... what 5 players collectively bring all of that?