Kevin Martin as 30th most "untouchable" player in the NBA
- Thread starter LoungeLizard
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You can't claim that comparison since I have been making it for 3 years now.
They go about it in different ways, but they really are very similar players in impact and production. Pure scorers who can play off the ball, and need to because they are without great ability to create their own shot, and guys you have to beg to do the other things. They also have been successively annointed as golden boys and "nice guys" etc. etc. by the franchise
Which BTW, is not an untouchable player. Nor is it a must trade player. A good player, a very useful player in the right circumstances. But worth about zero wins for you in the wrong ones (as now).
That's not true. Kevin is a solid first option. What the Kings need is a leader. Kevin is not the first option in that regard. Every team needs someoen who can score, and score efficiently. Kevin can do that so if he's open defeinitely get him the ball. I look back to our Vlade led team when CWebb was injured, and Peja of course led the team in PPG at like 25.
I found his little aside in the blurb about Hedo interesting
39. Hedo Turkoglu
His last season of being the "underrated and underpaid go-to guy on a contender." I actually thought he was better last season than this season, but whatever. Check out the '02 Kings again, an entertaining team that never ended up winning the title but secured a place in our hearts (as well as the All-Ugly Hall of Fame). Back in 2002, did you ever think Hedo would be their most relevant player from 2007-09? In a million years?
Also listed Salmons' contract in the Top 15 "Best Cap-Appealing Deals"
39. Hedo Turkoglu
His last season of being the "underrated and underpaid go-to guy on a contender." I actually thought he was better last season than this season, but whatever. Check out the '02 Kings again, an entertaining team that never ended up winning the title but secured a place in our hearts (as well as the All-Ugly Hall of Fame). Back in 2002, did you ever think Hedo would be their most relevant player from 2007-09? In a million years?
Also listed Salmons' contract in the Top 15 "Best Cap-Appealing Deals"
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Its semantics to a degree, but Kevin is not a #1 option, unless you like your #1 options to be .419 shooters when they are guarded. He is a scorer, and if you put together a good enough crew of passers you can help him be efficient, but a true #1 does not need that help. When you have a Dwayne Wade or a LeBron or a Kobe their percentages do not go up or down according ot their treammates. It does not matter. They beat whatever is thrown at them -- that's why they are #1s. Along the way they make the game infinitely easier for thie teammates by drawing crazy attention and beating iot wiht passes. Kevin is a classic #2, the guy who can get you points, but who doesn't make his teammates better and who thrives when the defense isn't focused on him. Get a true #1 in front of him, add LeBron to this team, then Kevin becomes potent. Ask him to do it himself (the sine qua non of #1hood) and its always going to be a struggle.
Kevin might very well lead your team in scoring, but he can never be the #1 guy or goto guy on a great team, or probably even a good one. Might be their leading scorer, but as a finisher, not the the guy who makes it all go. Liek I say, semantics, but an important and I would think after this season a fairly obvious distinction.
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yeah, martin is a good number 1 option as long as you have relly good 2nd and 3rd options on offense and stellar defense. this team needs leadership and martin isnt that player. but from the looks of things neither are hawes and thompson. though they could develop into really good 2nd and 3rd options on offense in a couple of years.
we really need a pg... not just a good one but a borderline great one.
we really need a pg... not just a good one but a borderline great one.
You can't claim that comparison since I have been making it for 3 years now.
They go about it in different ways, but they really are very similar players in impact and production. Pure scorers who can play off the ball, and need to because they are without great ability to create their own shot, and guys you have to beg to do the other things. They also have been successively annointed as golden boys and "nice guys" etc. etc. by the franchise
Which BTW, is not an untouchable player. Nor is it a must trade player. A good player, a very useful player in the right circumstances. But worth about zero wins for you in the wrong ones (as now).
They go about it in different ways, but they really are very similar players in impact and production. Pure scorers who can play off the ball, and need to because they are without great ability to create their own shot, and guys you have to beg to do the other things. They also have been successively annointed as golden boys and "nice guys" etc. etc. by the franchise
Which BTW, is not an untouchable player. Nor is it a must trade player. A good player, a very useful player in the right circumstances. But worth about zero wins for you in the wrong ones (as now).
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yeah, in pejas defense his defense was pretty good for an unathletic shooter... he defended the entire mavs team better than anyone. dirk, finley, anyone on that team could be stopped by peja. his only real problem was that he was easy to defend by putting a smaller, quicker player on him. kinda like how bibby was defended by bigger guards like sprewell or kobe.
i really dont remember peja being that bad of a defender. a bad rebounder for 6'10 but an all right defender. martin on the other hand is a horrible defender which is weird because in his rookie season he was a good defender and was asked to guard pg's... i dont know what happened.
i really dont remember peja being that bad of a defender. a bad rebounder for 6'10 but an all right defender. martin on the other hand is a horrible defender which is weird because in his rookie season he was a good defender and was asked to guard pg's... i dont know what happened.
I'm very dissatisfied with Martin's defense. Sure, he gets some steals by playing kamikazee defense, but that' not real D, just a way to pad the stats while he plays no D. He shies away from physical contact, he doesn't keep his man in front of him 95% of the time, he makes no impact whatsoever other than shooting the ball. How many times are we going to hear from Kayte after the game that Martin needs to get up on his man so the guy can't easily throw the ball over the top? Watch Kevin on D. Then watch Garcia on D. There's no comparison whatsoever. It's like watching a man play D vs a boy. If you keep him, then you've got to surround him with players who are very physical defensive players who can make up for his deficiencies. It's either that or trade him.
Um, traded for a good pick? You have to be mores specific because I'm sure you didn't mean trade him for a lottery pick this year only, that'd be rediculous... Trading him for an all-star level player(Like Bosh or Amare) or in a bigger trade where we get a great young prospect and possibly swap picks in a draft day trade I might consider
Peja had one of THE BEST pump fakes i have ever seen... when he pump fakes then side steps and shoots.. thats a thing of beauty
what peja doesnt have that martin has is that ability to draw in fouls on the fly.. martin is so good at it that he makes his defenders rack up the fouls so it wont matter much on who he will be guarding on the other side... if the best player was guarding martin and he makes him get at least quick fouls.. that guy either sits on the bench.. eases off of him or can get called for a charge. if he can get the bigs like howard, duncan, oden and alike in foul trouble by drawing the fouls... he makes life a lot easier for our bigs on offense and defense...
btw did you guys see pejas defense during the playoffs.. on nash and finley? i wouldnt say he was a bad defender.. people only say he is a bad defender because for a 6"10 guy he couldnt block a shot... he was a finesse guy pretty much underrated on the defensive side
what peja doesnt have that martin has is that ability to draw in fouls on the fly.. martin is so good at it that he makes his defenders rack up the fouls so it wont matter much on who he will be guarding on the other side... if the best player was guarding martin and he makes him get at least quick fouls.. that guy either sits on the bench.. eases off of him or can get called for a charge. if he can get the bigs like howard, duncan, oden and alike in foul trouble by drawing the fouls... he makes life a lot easier for our bigs on offense and defense...
btw did you guys see pejas defense during the playoffs.. on nash and finley? i wouldnt say he was a bad defender.. people only say he is a bad defender because for a 6"10 guy he couldnt block a shot... he was a finesse guy pretty much underrated on the defensive side
I don't know. If you ask me their scoring is basically a push with Martin just slightly edging out Peja. Peja wins when it comes to rebounding. You have to remember he had Webber, Divac and Pollard cleaning up most of the boards while he was around. He had a nice 6+ rpg total the year Webber was hurt and he scored 24pts/gm. Ball handling slightly goes to Martin and Defense goes to Peja easily. Martin has no skills at all, at least Peja was spotty with it and could actually play good D once in a while.
The problem with trading Kevin is that we are going to need somebody like him eventually. Or at least we will need somebody like him who actually tries to play both sides of the ball. But regardless, we either have a weakish #2 guy or strong #3 guy already on the roster, and if you trade him away just for pieces and prospects, all that does is open up yet one more hole we will have to fill going into the future. I don't think Kevin should be untouchable because there are literally dozens of more important players in the league, and if you can get one of them (a young one), or get a draft pick that nets you the next LeBron or whatever, then you'd be stupid not to make the move. But barring that, there are a lot of little boxes we need to check off if we are ever to reach elite status again, and we've only got a few of them even tentatively filled in. Unchecking one of those few just for random maybes and pieces doesn't move us toward the goal.
Martin is overachieving right now. Even though the “selfish” label is as loud as ever, Salmons has been very efficient at around 14 shots. That frees up opportunities for Martin. But with a true first option scorer, that will eat heavily into opportunities for Martin. He'd more than likely fall back down into the 20 range. Even when we had Bibby and Artest, who were both accused of not passing enough, they didn't take anywhere near the amount of shots a Wade or Bryant takes by themselves.
With a dominant scorer Martin may fall into the Odom range of 12-13 shots. Or things could go back to where we were a few years ago- a core of scorers who average 15 or so shots each.
With a dominant scorer Martin may fall into the Odom range of 12-13 shots. Or things could go back to where we were a few years ago- a core of scorers who average 15 or so shots each.