Kevin Love To Kings?

I guess I could do a per 36 comparison, but it kind of defeats one of the reasons why Love is a better player than DMC. DMC gets himself into foul trouble far more often than Love and has to sit on the bench much more because of it.

Silly fouls hurt the team - as do silly TO's. This is also something that DMC does much more than Love. Love is also a better passer and gets more assists because of it. Love is a better free throw shooter.

DMC has bigger behavioral issues than Love.

Such as?

Let us not forget that both Cuz and Love have had unfortunate run-ins with an opponent's groinal area. Last offseason onwards (generally any time since the stench of Maloof was fumigated from the practice facilities), Demarcus hasn't really had any serious behavioral run-in off the court and, on the court, showed considerable restraint in the face of continued scrutiny from the refs.

Now if you want to make a Love for Demarcus move on the basis of actual basketball stuff, then fine, especially if you find a way to account for perhaps the least effective defender of all the "stars" in the modern NBA.

But, thus far, most of your reasoning appears to be the incredibly unfounded DEMARCUS-COUSINS-IS-A-BAD-HUMAN-BEING argument. And that's completely disregarding the fact that we'd be dumping off four years of team control on our franchise big man for an expiring contract that's pretty much guaranteed to be on the first train to New York come the next offseason (Is there even a train that goes all the way to New York?). And really, free throw percentage is probably the last thing we should be worrying about when we talk about big men. DeAndre Jordan is awful at free throw shooting. Doesn"t mean I wouldn't want him on my team the second he hit the market.

You will not get any arguments from me in regards to the passing point as Love is probably the best passer from the big man spot since Brad Miller was working out of the elbow for us (though personally, I think Joakim Noah is a better pure ball sharer than Love). That said, Demarcus is certainly no slouch in that department himself (and considering the collection of incapable finishers he was passing to this season, it is within the realm of reason to assume his assist numbers will continue to improve in the coming years) and, for what it's worth, he averaged more assists this year in his 23-yr-old season than Love did in his 23-yr-old season (2.9 assists to 1.9 assists). And, as has been pointed out by much more qualified posters than I, Demarcus's turnover numbers are not that out of line with other elite big men at the early stages of their careers (Hell, Kareem was averaging 3.6 TOs per game when he was 32 years old.)

So really, the rather banal debate of Love v. Cousins comes down to defense, in which Demarcus wins by a landslide simply by the virtue of actually showing some effort on that end as opposed to Kevin Love's typical strategy of waiting for the rebound, team defense be damned.

Both are certainly talented but at the end of the day, I'd take the 6'11", 275 pound 23 year old over the 6'10", 260 pound 25 year old on an expiring contract.
 
Both are certainly talented but at the end of the day, I'd take the 6'11", 275 pound 23 year old over the 6'10", 260 pound 25 year old on an expiring contract.

this. unless i get some sort of airtight assurance that kevin love intended to remain in sacramento, i don't even consider trading demarcus cousins for him. the kings have their franchise cornerstone locked up for the next four seasons, whereas love's frustrations with failing to post a winning record in minnesota certainly don't give me cause to believe that he'd have any reason to make the kings a long term destination. the timberwolves are in the midst of ten straight seasons outside the playoff picture--the longest such streak in the nba. the kings are in second place with eight straight seasons outside the playoff picture. he's not coming here. and if he did, he's not staying here...
 
I guess I could do a per 36 comparison, but it kind of defeats one of the reasons why Love is a better player than DMC. DMC gets himself into foul trouble far more often than Love and has to sit on the bench much more because of it.
You do realize there's two good reasons for that, right? One being, Boogie actually plays defense. He's improved defensively, both in man situations and help situations. Love however is one of, if not the worst defensive starting big in the entire league. Two, Boogie is dealing with considerably worse perimeter defenders around him than Love has in Minn, and by extent is watching opposing guards break down our guards and get to him and the rim more frequently.

Silly fouls hurt the team - as do silly TO's. This is also something that DMC does much more than Love. Love is also a better passer and gets more assists because of it. Love is a better free throw shooter.
Boogie has cut his dumb fouls down a fair amount. The proof is his career highs in mins this year which increased as the season went on while at the same improving defensively. "Silly TO's" is a bit of hyperbole. If you're referring to a bad TO when handling the rock in transition, it happened maybe once every 4-5 games. Better passer is arguable. Love until this year generally put up fewer assists than Boogie. This year he went up above 4 APG. I'll chalk that up to Martin being there, them working the two man game and Love having a guy next to him who excels off the ball, as Love has yet to average over 2.5 APG without Martin on the team. But, give an off the ball threat like Martin as an option for Boogie to pass to and give him an Adelman system to play in instead of a heavy iso Malone system, his assists are likely higher too.

DMC has bigger behavioral issues than Love.
That's also arguable. You remember Love stepping on Scola's face? You remember the multiple times Love has taken to the media to threaten to bolt out of Minn and to apply pressure on his FO? There's not another guy currently in the league who's complained as much in the media about his team other than Kobe years ago. And Love btw, is doing all this whining in the media without having ever played in a playoff game.

What's interesting btw, is his own PG just questioned him in the media.

He is a special player, his numbers are incredible but maybe our leader must be other (...) He is our leader in points and other things, but in voice he is not the player he can be or wants to be. There are different types of leaders. Perhaps he shouldn't have been our leader, perhaps Kevin Martin could have been our leader because he had a bit more experience, perhaps I could take a step forward to be the definitive leader. -Rubio

Maybe Kevin Martin could have been our leader? That's quite amusing. That's a helluva shot at Love's lack of leadership abilities as Martin is not a leader at all.
 
Nah Cousins impacts the game way more and when he puts his mind to it can defend fairly well, Love trying to defend is still useless and he's injury prone. Plus he bitches more than Cousins calling out teammates I would pick Cousins over Love 100 out of 100 times.

I have never in my life seen a guy put up god stats that literally has no effect on the game like Love does it's really something to behold. I would take Paul Milsap over Kevin Love.

Yikes. You might be sorely disappointed if you signed up for Kings 3.0.

At any rate, if you have a chance at Love and keeping him here long-term, you do it. No matter the cost. Love-Cuz has some defensive issues, but it makes up for it by pairing 2 top 5 rebounders on both ends of the floor and the probably the 2 best offensive bigs in the game. Hell, it'd be the best offensive bigs pairing in NBA history. The beauty is, both guys are comfortable playing away from the post, so you could have a variety of sets that feature both Cuz and Love in the post or on the perimeter. Especially with a severe lack of quality post defenders in today's NBA, there'd be no stopping our bigs. Just surround them with an army of 3pt shooters/defenders/tough guys and we get to have fun in the playoffs next season.
 
Just to clarify, I would only trade DMC for Love if Love was first signed to a contract similar to DMC. I would not do the trade with only 1 year left on the Love contract.

My general point is that Love is a better player with fewer behavioral issues than DMC. The trade of course is not going to happen. Love would probably prefer to stay in Minny over coming to Sac.
 
Just to clarify, I would only trade DMC for Love if Love was first signed to a contract similar to DMC. I would not do the trade with only 1 year left on the Love contract.

My general point is that Love is a better player with fewer behavioral issues than DMC. The trade of course is not going to happen. Love would probably prefer to stay in Minny over coming to Sac.

Except that point has been easily refuted, but of course you've chosen to completely ignore that.
 
Except that point has been easily refuted, but of course you've chosen to completely ignore that.


What I cannot ignore is that Love scores more often and from more places on the court, rebounds more, fouls less, spends less time on the bench in foul trouble, passes better/has more assists, turns the ball over less, shoots better from the free throw line, gets fewers Ts, gets fewer fines and spends less time away from the court due to suspensions.
 
Except that point has been easily refuted, but of course you've chosen to completely ignore that.

I'll preface this by saying that I wouldn't trade Cousins for Love, but i guess i don't really understand this "easily refuted" comment. Cousins has been #1, #2, #5 and #8 in T's the last 4 years. #1 came just this last year. He has had issues with teammates, coaches and numerous ejections and suspensions as well. Love on the other hand has zero ejections in his 6 year career (vs. Cousins 8 ejections in 4 years), has a grand total of 12 T's in his 6 year career (vs. Cousins 59 in 4 years) and been suspended once for his stomp on Scola (vs. I have forgotten how many suspensions Cuz has). So i guess i am not following your "easily refuted" logic
 
What I cannot ignore is that Love scores more often and from more places on the court, rebounds more, fouls less, spends less time on the bench in foul trouble, passes better/has more assists, turns the ball over less, shoots better from the free throw line, gets fewers Ts, gets fewer fines and spends less time away from the court due to suspensions.

What you apparently can ignore is everyone providing evidence that contradicts most of these points.
 
Kevin Love is not as great a player as DeMarcus Cousins. Trying to go places with him as a #1 instead of Cousins would be foolish IMO.

I say that without making any statistical arguments. I say that just having watched 30 years of NBA bigs. Love is a strange beast. but what he is not is a goto guy. Not really. I have no idea what a "throw it to Love and let him win it for us" play looks like. And his defense is not only incompetent, but virtually impossible for it to ever become more than that. He's a monster stat puncher, but its never been 100% clear to me he's winning games with those stats. I would have little confidence I could ever win the big one with Kevin Love as my main man. He would lead me in stats, but when it came time to get gritty and pull out the win, I'm looking for a player with a lot sharper edges.

That's before we get to the air of wannabe/disloyal dog that hangs over Love. He's got some Bosh in him. Wants to hang with the cool kids, and we ain't cool. I'll take Boogie's open hostility and dogged loyalty any day. Boogie may or may not be a jerk, but he has some integrity. Slimes/political animals like CP3, Wade, Lebron, and wannabes like Howard or possibly Love do not.
 
Kevin Love is not as great a player as DeMarcus Cousins. Trying to go places with him as a #1 instead of Cousins would be foolish IMO.

I say that without making any statistical arguments. I say that just having watched 30 years of NBA bigs. Love is a strange beast. but what he is not is a goto guy. Not really. I have no idea what a "throw it to Love and let him win it for us" play looks like. And his defense is not only incompetent, but virtually impossible for it to ever become more than that. He's a monster stat puncher, but its never been 100% clear to me he's winning games with those stats. I would have little confidence I could ever win the big one with Kevin Love as my main man. He would lead me in stats, but when it came time to get gritty and pull out the win, I'm looking for a player with a lot sharper edges.

That's before we get to the air of wannabe/disloyal dog that hangs over Love. He's got some Bosh in him. Wants to hang with the cool kids, and we ain't cool. I'll take Boogie's open hostility and dogged loyalty any day. Boogie may or may not be a jerk, but he has some integrity. Slimes/political animals like CP3, Wade, Lebron, and wannabes like Howard or possibly Love do not.

I pretty much agree with this. Was just curious about all this evidence that cannot be refuted talk that is being thrown around...along with the talk of Love not winning games despite big stats, whereas Cuz was seemingly getting a pass on that front.
 
What's interesting btw, is his own PG just questioned him in the media.

He is a special player, his numbers are incredible but maybe our leader must be other (...) He is our leader in points and other things, but in voice he is not the player he can be or wants to be. There are different types of leaders. Perhaps he shouldn't have been our leader, perhaps Kevin Martin could have been our leader because he had a bit more experience, perhaps I could take a step forward to be the definitive leader. -Rubio

Maybe Kevin Martin could have been our leader? That's quite amusing. That's a helluva shot at Love's lack of leadership abilities as Martin is not a leader at all.

I somehow think Rubio wouldn't have found Cousins much of a great leader either... It's quite a wash in terms of leadership/behavior between the two (Cousins and Love) if you asked me.
 
I somehow think Rubio wouldn't have found Cousins much of a great leader either... It's quite a wash in terms of leadership/behavior between the two (Cousins and Love) if you asked me.
How can Ricky Rubio call anyone out seriously? Medicore PG who instead of focusing on his weaknesses and improving them to help his team win like a real leader is the same average PG he was when he came in but people get blinded by his flashy passing. Seriously the guy has no business calling anyone it would be like Rudy Gay calling other players out for taking bad shots or Cousins calling someone out for getting to many techs.

Rubio needs to shut up, the guy lacks fire and is not much of a leader himself.
 
I pretty much agree with this. Was just curious about all this evidence that cannot be refuted talk that is being thrown around...along with the talk of Love not winning games despite big stats, whereas Cuz was seemingly getting a pass on that front.

I was talking about his stats not being better than Cousins. Personality wise it's highly debatable, personally I'd much prefer Cousins' character due to the reasons outlined by Brick. As for technicals, well that's just a weak argument made by sensitive little souls.
 
I was talking about his stats not being better than Cousins. Personality wise it's highly debatable, personally I'd much prefer Cousins' character due to the reasons outlined by Brick. As for technicals, well that's just a weak argument made by sensitive little souls.

Riiiiiiight.
 
Riiiiiiight.

What part do you disagree with? All the statistical points were easily refuted, and Cousins' superior defense pointed out. These were completely ignored, which was my point. I really don't know what's so confusing about that. :rolleyes:

Is it the word "refute" that you're taking issue with? They're almost identical statistically per 36. Love is a marginally better scorer and passer, Cousins a marginally better rebounder, blocker and stealer. Cuz shoots a higher % from the field, Love from 3pt. Love is a primadonna who thinks he's entitled to be on a winning team, Cousins is loyal and has problems controlling his emotions.

Cousins game is more suited to being a number 1 option.
 
What part do you disagree with? All the statistical points were easily refuted, and Cousins' superior defense pointed out. These were completely ignored, which was my point. I really don't know what's so confusing about that. :rolleyes:

Is it the word "refute" that you're taking issue with? They're almost identical statistically per 36. Love is a marginally better scorer and passer, Cousins a marginally better rebounder, blocker and stealer. Cuz shoots a higher % from the field, Love from 3pt. Love is a primadonna who thinks he's entitled to be on a winning team, Cousins is loyal and has problems controlling his emotions.

Cousins game is more suited to being a number 1 option.

L
Lol, wut? How is it easily refuted when their per 36 is almost identical and when Loves overall stats per night are generally better across the board?? And to say "personality wise is debatable" is a real stretch as well given Cuz's track record. So basically Love recently says he wants out of MIN and is now a prima donna whose attitude is on par with Cousins? Sure. Seems to me you are just grasping at anything to try and substantiate your point of view, which is fine, but to say things like "easily refuted" is ludicrous and biased.
Your last sentence i absolutely agree with however.
 
L
Lol, wut? How is it easily refuted when their per 36 is almost identical and when Loves overall stats per night are generally better across the board?? And to say "personality wise is debatable" is a real stretch as well given Cuz's track record. So basically Love recently says he wants out of MIN and is now a prima donna whose attitude is on par with Cousins? Sure. Seems to me you are just grasping at anything to try and substantiate your point of view, which is fine, but to say things like "easily refuted" is ludicrous and biased.
Your last sentence i absolutely agree with however.

So it is the term "refuted" that you have a problem with. It was probably a poor choice of words by me, I should have said "contested" or something of that ilk. My point was that the numbers are extremely close, and Cousins plays much better defense, which is saying something considering that Cousins isn't all-NBA defensively. This was blatantly ignored. You can't just take offense into account and forget defense, especially considering that offensively they're almost identical anyway.

Didn't say anything about attitude, I said personality. Two different things. I don't like players who are self-entitled. Love is heading that way, Cousins so far is not. I'll take the techs and scowling over that any day of the week.
 
It would be an interesting pairing, a weak one defensively, but on offense.... night in and night out you will be superior in the post to every single team in the league, so much so that it might be worth the defensive risk. However, with such a pairing, positions 1-3 better be able to defend on a 1st or 2nd all NBA team type of level. Highly intriguing, but probably not even close to realistic for many reasons.
 
So it is the term "refuted" that you have a problem with. It was probably a poor choice of words by me, I should have said "contested" or something of that ilk. My point was that the numbers are extremely close, and Cousins plays much better defense, which is saying something considering that Cousins isn't all-NBA defensively. This was blatantly ignored. You can't just take offense into account and forget defense, especially considering that offensively they're almost identical anyway.

Didn't say anything about attitude, I said personality. Two different things. I don't like players who are self-entitled. Love is heading that way, Cousins so far is not. I'll take the techs and scowling over that any day of the week.

Ok, that makes much more sense. The way it was initially presented is what i had an issue with.
 
I'd give up everyone but cuz. Sadly we don't have much else. One year contract is risky but I'd try
 
Just to clarify, I would only trade DMC for Love if Love was first signed to a contract similar to DMC. I would not do the trade with only 1 year left on the Love contract.

My general point is that Love is a better player with fewer behavioral issues than DMC. The trade of course is not going to happen. Love would probably prefer to stay in Minny over coming to Sac.
Kevin love wouldn't make the impact that a Cousins will make in his prime years. No way in the world
 
L
Lol, wut? How is it easily refuted when their per 36 is almost identical and when Loves overall stats per night are generally better across the board?? And to say "personality wise is debatable" is a real stretch as well given Cuz's track record. So basically Love recently says he wants out of MIN and is now a prima donna whose attitude is on par with Cousins? Sure. Seems to me you are just grasping at anything to try and substantiate your point of view, which is fine, but to say things like "easily refuted" is ludicrous and biased.
Your last sentence i absolutely agree with however.
Love is more of a jumpshooter, and cousins pretty much lived in the paint this season.

For that reason alone, DMC >>>>
 
They are two completely different pieces. Which helps you win more? Well it depends on your other pieces. Remember this game is not 1 on 1.
 
intriguing.

And I don't think realistic for a couple of reasons. First of course I don't think Rudy has recovered that kind of value, secondly is the minor little problem that we can't trade Rudy until he opts in likely right on the eve of free agency, after the draft. So you'd have to draft a guy that Minny might want, sit on him for a week, hope that Rudy opted in, then hope that Rudy and the guy you drafted fro MInny at #8 would trump everybody else's Love offers. Then hope that Sacto is close enough to Love's beloved L.A. and that he will stay after the year is up.
 
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