Keon Ellis and Dennis Schroder traded to Cleveland in 3 team deal. Kings acquire De’Andre Hunter

pdxKingsFan said:
The good news is that I don't think LA has the cap to sign him unless he becomes part of a LeBron sign and trade to facilitate that homecoming. I know a lot of people want to see that, I don't like it for Cleveland and hope it doesn't happen.
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Unless I'm mistaken, LA is in a spot to essentially rebuild the roster next year. I think we see them move vando/Knecht for an expiring this deadline, but even if they don't, for next year I see-
Luka - 50
Vando 12.5
LaRavia - 6
Knecht - 4.2
Adou - 2.1

Of course they need to deal with Reaves deal, but there's a scenario they can resign Reaves and have plenty of money to go shopping.
 
BuddyBuckets said:
Unless I'm mistaken, LA is in a spot to essentially rebuild the roster next year. I think we see them move vando/Knecht for an expiring this deadline, but even if they don't, for next year I see-
Luka - 50
Vando 12.5
LaRavia - 6
Knecht - 4.2
Adou - 2.1

Of course they need to deal with Reaves deal, but there's a scenario they can resign Reaves and have plenty of money to go shopping.
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If they pay Reaves and LeBron stays though? I know the Lakers and LeBron have been poised for a breakup for any length of time, but it just feels to me like it is easier said than done? LeBron will make more in LA, assuming he is still marketable in Hollywood etc. and he sells tickets even if people want to make it Luka's team.

I don't know?
 
pdxKingsFan said:
If they pay Reaves and LeBron stays though? I know the Lakers and LeBron have been poised for a breakup for any length of time, but it just feels to me like it is easier said than done? LeBron will make more in LA, assuming he is still marketable in Hollywood etc. and he sells tickets even if people want to make it Luka's team.

I don't know?
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My opinion is that Lebron isn't welcome back unless its for pennies. The trio of Luka, Lebron, Reaves isn't a fit. Lakers know it, Lebron knows it, Rich Paul knows it. Lakers are not going to waste 2 more years of Luka's prime because Lebron, they don't operate that way. This isn't Kobe, this is Shaq.

I'm very curious what happens with Lebron. He's always been all about his money. But I'm really struggling to see a destination where he can try and ring chase + get his bag.

I could see 1 of 3 scenarios.
1. GS to team up with Curry. Maybe some sort of S&T involving Kuminga so that Lebron can get some money.
2. Cleveland on a minimum farewell tour. "It's always been cleveland, lets win 1 more ring before i go!"
3. Retirement

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but LA seems like they've already moved on. And no way he goes to Brooklyn, Washington, etc to get one last bag and go out on a 30 win team.
 
coolhandluke said:
CBS Trade Grades



Perry is the gift that keeps on giving.
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We'll see, Perry has been wrong about a lot of things so far, not sure not overpaying for a role guy like Keon was one of them considering the state of the team. Christie and Browns usage of Keon? Definitely. The Kings had Bird rights, they could've extended him. You don't tear up a 2 million dollar contract and replace it with a higher one considering the Kings position. This would have been like giving Domas more money when it wasn't at all necessary. That's weaksauce stuff. Keon wasn't making this team a winner and if he didn't then that contract could have been another anchor to eventually have to move. Not a huge one but one nonetheless. Schroder and Westbrooks signing killed Monks chance to shine, Keons chance to solidify, and Carters chance to play. Blame that all day.
 
Tetsujin said:
It would appear that none of the offers were better than that though
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Wasn't there a blurb basically confirming Perry went with the talent grab over a late 1st? No, not good signs wise for a supposed rebuild, but they got someone that could definitely ascend as long as the Kings don't screw him around. Hunter has enough offensive skill to not get shut out so there's that at least. Seems like a safe bet if he can stay on the floor.
 
SacTownKid said:
Wasn't there a blurb basically confirming Perry went with the talent grab over a late 1st? No, not good signs wise for a supposed rebuild, but they got someone that could definitely ascend as long as the Kings don't screw him around. Hunter has enough offensive skill to not get shut out so there's that at least. Seems like a safe bet if he can stay on the floor.
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Not that I’ve seen. The blurbs posted in the trade deadline thread, which all seem sourced from Amick’s 1140 interview today, say the market cooled.
 
BuddyBuckets said:
I hope you are right about Hunter. But .
19/20 - 63 games played - 12.3ppg
20/21 - 23 games played - 15ppg
21/22 - 53 games played - 13.4ppg
22/23 - 67 games played - 15.4ppg
23/24 - 57 games played - 15.6ppg
24/25 - 64 games played - 17ppg
25/26 - 43 games played - 14ppg

He is who he is. A mid defender who puts off the idea hes better than he is because his size/length. He's never played 70 games in a season. Hes always averaged between 13-15 outside of 1 outlier season.

Hes scheduled to make 25 million next year in an apron era where guys like Trae Young can't fetch an asset. The idea that Hunter is going to be worth a 1st round pick next year seems so far outside the realm of possibility that I can't believe I keep hearing it (not saying you said this, but its everywhere on X). Maybe Perry felt that way, but its a line of thinking that belongs 5-10 years ago, not today. We just saw an off-season of expirings on these type of contracts get treated as negative.

I hope I'm wrong. I really hope some team gives us something for Hunter. I think the more likely result is we see he has no trade value and we end up giving him an extension at some point.
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Historically he's shown shot creation ability so if Christie pokes him to be more aggressive it could work. There really isn't a ton else on this team looking to munch other than Westbrook and DeMar so a role should be there. If DeMar and Russ are here passed the deadline who knows what this team will look like on the floor. That could sink his opportunities. If they were going to Kuminga saying this was going to be his team then it should be no different for Hunter. Hunter has way more in his tool bag and a history of decent percentages from 3. He's a decent test of a player that can feed himself while also playing within a system. It'd be hard for him not to fit in anywhere.
 
LPKingsFan said:
Not that I’ve seen. The blurbs posted in the trade deadline thread, which all seem sourced from Amick’s 1140 interview today, say the market cooled.
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It might have been an interview, pretty positive someone said it. The idea that late 1sts are impossible to get it complete tripe. Perry showed you can easily get in last year and one of the ways to do it.
 
BuddyBuckets said:
My opinion is that Lebron isn't welcome back unless its for pennies. The trio of Luka, Lebron, Reaves isn't a fit. Lakers know it, Lebron knows it, Rich Paul knows it. Lakers are not going to waste 2 more years of Luka's prime because Lebron, they don't operate that way. This isn't Kobe, this is Shaq.

I'm very curious what happens with Lebron. He's always been all about his money. But I'm really struggling to see a destination where he can try and ring chase + get his bag.

I could see 1 of 3 scenarios.
1. GS to team up with Curry. Maybe some sort of S&T involving Kuminga so that Lebron can get some money.
2. Cleveland on a minimum farewell tour. "It's always been cleveland, lets win 1 more ring before i go!"
3. Retirement

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but LA seems like they've already moved on. And no way he goes to Brooklyn, Washington, etc to get one last bag and go out on a 30 win team.
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So I mostly agree with everything above, except it could also just be like an old married couple that don't really like each other and just stay together until one of them dies. Like absolutely Luka and LeBron have no business together, move on, but sometimes you just can't quit each other because the alternatives are too unknown?

Going back to Cleveland is about as appealing as reconciling with my ex wife, but I am not a Cleveland fan so maybe I'm wrong.
 
The_Jamal said:
Hunter really only makes sense as a future flip candidate. Get him in town, rehab his value and flip him for picks down the line. Maybe that doesn't get a 1st, but you got off the Dennis contract in the meantime.

Worst case is this is us "buying" to gear up to be competitive next year and short-cut the rebuild. We'll see.
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This is the Kings. Getting one top pick will almost assuredly repeat the Zbo/Hill crap. The Kings have never really waited longer than 2 years to build around anything. That said the Kings might be better positioned for it though? Keegan is already in that 25 year old range. The young guys are all a bit older. This really shouldn't be a 5 year plan type of thing but they better knock it out of the park on draft night and get some serious luck with the lotto balls.
 
SacTownKid said:
Historically he's shown shot creation ability so if Christie pokes him to be more aggressive it could work. There really isn't a ton else on this team looking to munch other than Westbrook and DeMar so a role should be there. If DeMar and Russ are here passed the deadline who knows what this team will look like on the floor. That could sink his opportunities. If they were going to Kuminga saying this was going to be his team then it should be no different for Hunter. Hunter has way more in his tool bag and a history of decent percentages from 3. He's a decent test of a player that can feed himself while also playing within a system. It'd be hard for him not to fit in anywhere.
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Big difference is that
Hunter is 28 and has already been on two teams showing us who he is.
Kuminga is 23 and has been stuck with a win-now team and coach who doesn't like him.

I'm not saying Kuminga was truly our answer. I'm just saying the idea Kuminga could have development left + age to fit a rebuild doesn't apply to Hunter.
 
macadocious said:
My take on Keon is, he can't dribble, and god forbid he leads a break. A guy who needs to be a ball handler who cannot do those things is very limited, regardless of how good he is defensively and catch and shoot. He deserved more minutes than he got, but probably not a ton more.

This has nothing to do with the value of the trade, this is just him in a box. I think there is a way to gameplay for him to succeed, but you need to have strong personnel around him. I think he will flourish in Cleveland.
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Yeah, he's made for a contender. It's like Derreck Fisher back in the day. Great when he's next to superstars on a winning team, going out and signing a guy like that to get your team there is likely not a smart bet. The Kings unfortunately, or fortunately depending on take, can't build that right now. They'd have to side swing in the dark to get there and that makes no sense to bring back someone who will potentially become another contract to have to move.
 
BuddyBuckets said:
Big difference is that
Hunter is 28 and has already been on two teams showing us who he is.
Kuminga is 23 and has been stuck with a win-now team and coach who doesn't like him.

I'm not saying Kuminga was truly our answer. I'm just saying the idea Kuminga could have development left + age to fit a rebuild doesn't apply to Hunter.
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Again, age isn't the factor, cost is. Both make about the same money but it's going to be impossible to build a team if the cap is stuffed with contracts. Both are essentially the same thing however Hunter would appear to have a better market considering the lack of any interest in Kuminga when he was fairly available. If they really, really want Kuminga? Offer him the MLE and that role as face of the franchise. That'll show if he's loyal and/or has belief in what Perry's doing.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
So I mostly agree with everything above, except it could also just be like an old married couple that don't really like each other and just stay together until one of them dies. Like absolutely Luka and LeBron have no business together, move on, but sometimes you just can't quit each other because the alternatives are too unknown?

Going back to Cleveland is about as appealing as reconciling with my ex wife, but I am not a Cleveland fan so maybe I'm wrong.
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We will see. I think all the reports coming out is too much smoke. The Jeanie report, what Rich Paul has been saying on the kellerman podcast. They are a 1st round exit, possibly 2nd at best with this core. Luka is about to be 27, do they want to wait until hes 29 to really start building around him?

You don't see the appeal with Cleveland?
Garland - Mitchell - Lebron - Mobley - Allen
Schroder - Keon?/Merrill - Tyson - Strus - Wade

Could even get off Strus contract next summer to save more money. Or Garland for a better fit.

From Lebrons POV, you are going to a ready made team + back home for a nice farewell tour.
From Cleveland POV, you haven't got over the hump with this core. Add Lebron for nothing.
 
NewArena said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2018338063315869932

No way Keon was getting one
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In what range though? If the Kings want pick in the 25-30 range in the next draft tell Vivek to bust out his wallet. A decent 1st? Yeah, no way was Keon getting that as an expiring. Not sure what White's market is but one factor is that there aren't a lot of teams needing someone like him and he also has a sizable cap hold. That could hamstring a team looking to make other moves and keep him.
 
BuddyBuckets said:
We will see. I think all the reports coming out is too much smoke. The Jeanie report, what Rich Paul has been saying on the kellerman podcast. They are a 1st round exit, possibly 2nd at best with this core. Luka is about to be 27, do they want to wait until hes 29 to really start building around him?

You don't see the appeal with Cleveland?
Garland - Mitchell - Lebron - Mobley - Allen
Schroder - Keon?/Merrill - Tyson - Strus - Wade

Could even get off Strus contract next summer to save more money. Or Garland for a better fit.

From Lebrons POV, you are going to a ready made team + back home for a nice farewell tour.
From Cleveland POV, you haven't got over the hump with this core. Add Lebron for nothing.
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If he goes for a minimum. I don't know why but I don't think he would do that. I don't think he'd play for less than 30m.
 
Warhawk said:
Since you asked (you didn't, but this is a good jumping off point) - I decided to see how the lottery treated various teams since the last odds adjustment.

View attachment 14745

The team with the worst record has never picked first after the lottery; the best they have done is come in second (twice). That team has also picked fifth three times (the last three years).

Other than 2023, every year one or more teams originally slotted at pick 7 or higher have jumped into the top 4. Four out of the 7 years saw two or more teams originally slotted at 7 or worse pop into the top 4.

The teams most often picking first were the teams originally slotted at 2 and 3 (four of the seven drafts, twice each). Others were originally at positions 7, 10, and 11.

The team originally slated to pick at 7 popped into the top 4 more often than they didn't (four times in vs. three times staying out). The team originally at 8 did almost as well, jumping into the top 4 a total of three times. So, the teams at positions 7 and 8 pre lottery jumped into the top 4 an average of 50% of the time.

The team at 11 has jumped into the top 4 twice.
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Given the team with the 1 seed has a 48.7% chance of picking 5th your results are as expected. The advantage of 1 is your worst case this year is Flemings. If you get better it’s gravy.
 
Warhawk said:
Gotcha. Actually, this time I was just genuinely curious when I put this together. I had glanced at the most recent couple of years not long ago, but I decided to put it together just to see what the data actually says (since the odds were changed). It doesn't fit the "expected" odds with so few samples to draw from, but the results are indeed still curious.

You were saying that we have some danger of falling out of the top five. Seven years of drafts have seen numerous teams in the 7-8 range in particular jumping into the top 4 and, coincidentally, some of the top 5 teams falling out of the top 5 after the lottery:

Pre-lottery position and # times drafting in the top 5:

1. All seven times (a given, as top four positions are by lottery)
2. Six times
3. Five times
4. Two times
5. Four times

The top 5 pre-lottery positioned teams have actually gotten a top 5 pick in 24 of 35 drafts picks, an average hit rate of 69% over the first seven years. 31% of the top 5 picks over that time have gone to teams outside the top 5 positions pre-lottery.
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Your numbers for even a small sample size are not too far from the odds. ( not surprising)
Odds out of top 5
1) 0%
2) 20%
3) 33%
4) 46.4%
5) 52.8%
 
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