Keeping Bibby & Artest (merged)
- Thread starter OvechKiN
- Start date
Fresno King
Starter
My thoughts on Bibby are mixed. He was the glue of our glory years. I didn't want the ball in anyone else's hands except his against the Lakers in the West Finals, and he responded big time. He played well in Adelman's system, and if Petrie brings in Terry Porter (an Adelman disciple) in to be the head coach, we may see the old Bibby again. Musselman's leadership skills were horrible. No-one respected him, and it showed. Bibby didn't hide his disgust well on the floor. His shooting was bad all year, but didn't he have some sort of thumb or hand injury? I think we'd see a re-energized Bibby under Porter if he's not dealt.
As for Artest, we got the better end of that trade. Stojakovic has been invisible since he was dealt to Indiana, thanks in large part to his back. We got a lot more in return (good and bad), but I'm also all for dealing him. If we can get a promising young player like Dorell Wright and a second rounder for Artest from Miami, I'd be all for it.
The Kings need to counter the Oden Durant Western Confernce invasion by running and gunning again. That means making a move for Gerald Wallace. That also means dealing Miller and Shareef. Would the Suns do a Shawn Marion for Brad Miller and Francisco Garcia deal? Marion isn't happy, and the Suns may want to re-vamp their roster. Phoenix may want to deal Marion after all the stuff he was saying through the media about wanting to be "the man."
The Maloofs may not want to pull the trigger on a Bibby to the Lakers deal for Bynum and Farmar, but Kobe isn't happy and the Lakers brass is feeling the heat to pull the trigger on a deal. I would do this:
-Sign Gerald Wallace to a 5 year 50 million dollar deal (10 mil per)
-Trade Miller, Garcia and our 2008 first round pick (lottery exempted) to the Suns for Shawn Marion (Marion makes 15 mil a year)
-Trade Bibby and Shareef to the Lakers for Bynum and Farmar (Bynum and Farmar made a combined 3 million a year in 06-07) REMEMBER: Kobe wants the Lakers to make moves!
-Trade Artest to the Heat for Dorell Wright and their 2008 first round draft pick (Wright made 1.4 million in 06-07)
Man this sounds good:
Guards: Jordan Farmar, Kevin Martin, Ronnie Price, Quincy Douby,
John Salmons
Forwards: Shawn Marion, Gerald Wallace, Dorell Wright, Kenny Thomas, #1 Draft Pick (Joakim Noah? Brandan Wright?)
Centers: Justin Williams, Andrew Bynum
STARTING FIVE:
PG-Jordan Farmar
SG-Kevin Martin
SF-Shawn Marion
SF-Gerald Wallace
C- Andrew Bynum
Young and athletic. It's a fun roster with a payroll of around 50 million, using last year's salaries. I even rounded up, from Price's 664 thousand to a million, Williams from 252 thousand to a million, etc. And if you get Porter to be the coach, he can groom Farmar and Price.
I love Reggie Theus, but I'm also on the Porter bandwagon.
As for Artest, we got the better end of that trade. Stojakovic has been invisible since he was dealt to Indiana, thanks in large part to his back. We got a lot more in return (good and bad), but I'm also all for dealing him. If we can get a promising young player like Dorell Wright and a second rounder for Artest from Miami, I'd be all for it.
The Kings need to counter the Oden Durant Western Confernce invasion by running and gunning again. That means making a move for Gerald Wallace. That also means dealing Miller and Shareef. Would the Suns do a Shawn Marion for Brad Miller and Francisco Garcia deal? Marion isn't happy, and the Suns may want to re-vamp their roster. Phoenix may want to deal Marion after all the stuff he was saying through the media about wanting to be "the man."
The Maloofs may not want to pull the trigger on a Bibby to the Lakers deal for Bynum and Farmar, but Kobe isn't happy and the Lakers brass is feeling the heat to pull the trigger on a deal. I would do this:
-Sign Gerald Wallace to a 5 year 50 million dollar deal (10 mil per)
-Trade Miller, Garcia and our 2008 first round pick (lottery exempted) to the Suns for Shawn Marion (Marion makes 15 mil a year)
-Trade Bibby and Shareef to the Lakers for Bynum and Farmar (Bynum and Farmar made a combined 3 million a year in 06-07) REMEMBER: Kobe wants the Lakers to make moves!
-Trade Artest to the Heat for Dorell Wright and their 2008 first round draft pick (Wright made 1.4 million in 06-07)
Man this sounds good:
Guards: Jordan Farmar, Kevin Martin, Ronnie Price, Quincy Douby,
John Salmons
Forwards: Shawn Marion, Gerald Wallace, Dorell Wright, Kenny Thomas, #1 Draft Pick (Joakim Noah? Brandan Wright?)
Centers: Justin Williams, Andrew Bynum
STARTING FIVE:
PG-Jordan Farmar
SG-Kevin Martin
SF-Shawn Marion
SF-Gerald Wallace
C- Andrew Bynum
Young and athletic. It's a fun roster with a payroll of around 50 million, using last year's salaries. I even rounded up, from Price's 664 thousand to a million, Williams from 252 thousand to a million, etc. And if you get Porter to be the coach, he can groom Farmar and Price.
I love Reggie Theus, but I'm also on the Porter bandwagon.
OvechKiN
G-League
ok, I can see why everyone wants to blow up the team and start all over, which I am completely not opposed to.
Honestly, I started cheering for the Kings after the Jordan glory days, so once Bibby is gone, the team is completely different.
If we were to blow it up, any chance we can land a LaMarcus Aldridge or a Marvin Williams?
Honestly, I started cheering for the Kings after the Jordan glory days, so once Bibby is gone, the team is completely different.
If we were to blow it up, any chance we can land a LaMarcus Aldridge or a Marvin Williams?
Oscar
Bench
When has Artest ever behaved? What difference will a year make, whether it's a contract year or not? He's unstable, doesn't listen to coaches, trouble always seems to find him, and he doesn't mesh well with the current lineup. He's gotta go.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No prob:
1) we trade Bibby to Minny
2) Minny trades their #7 to us, and one of their stupid PG contracts (James, Jaric, Hudson)
3) Minny trades either another of their PG contracts (James or Jaric presumably, or Blount) down to Houston to either be their starting PG (James) or starting PF (Blount)
4) Houston sends us the Sura ender, and something else small to make the salaries match.
Minny gets a starting PG next to KG who loves the pick and roll. They also get relief from a couple of their dumbass MLE contracts that their entire team is composed of anymore.
Houston gets either its starting PG (James, maybe Jaric) or starting PF (Blount).
We accept the bad MLE contract from Minny to add to our KT/SAR/Salmons collection in order to get the #7 pick, leaving us with #7 and #10.
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Vlade4GM
All-Star
No prob:
1) we trade Bibby to Minny
2) Minny trades their #7 to us, and one of their stupid PG contracts (James, Jaric, Hudson)
3) Minny trades either another of their PG contracts (James or Jaric presumably, or Blount) down to Houston to either be their starting PG (James) or starting PF (Blount)
4) Houston sends us the Sura ender, and something else small to make the salaries match.
Minny gets a starting PG next to KG who loves the pick and roll. They also get relief from a couple of their dumbass MLE contracts that their entire team is composed of anymore.
Houston ets either its starting PG (James, maybe Jaric) or starting PF (Blount).
We accept the bad MLE contract from Minny to add to out KT/SAR/Saslmons collection in order to get the #7 pick, leaving us with #7 and #10.
Do they see Foye more as a SG or PG?
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
No prob:
1) we trade Bibby to Minny
2) Minny trades their #7 to us, and one of their stupid PG contracts (James, Jaric, Hudson)
3) Minny trades either another of their PG contracts (James or Jaric presumably, or Blount) down to Houston to either be their starting PG (James) or starting PF (Blount)
4) Houston sends us the Sura ender, and something else small to make the salaries match.
Minny gets a starting PG next to KG who loves the pick and roll. They also get relief from a couple of their dumbass MLE contracts that their entire team is composed of anymore.
Houston ets either its starting PG (James, maybe Jaric) or starting PF (Blount).
We accept the bad MLE contract from Minny to add to out KT/SAR/Saslmons collection in order to get the #7 pick, leaving us with #7 and #10.
Except that, with the presence of Foye, they're not going to want Bibby. They need a SF, and aren't willing to take on notorious headcases like Artest. So that leaves us with Salmons and Garcia, neither of which are worth the #7 pick.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Foye may well be an OG. Tweener at best.
I'm assuming for purposes of this suggestion that Minny's next move would be to move that Ricky Davis ender -- he has to go -- to clear up the OG for Foye.
bibbinator
Bench
I'd like Artest to stay. He was fine under Adelman. The one caveat is that we need a coach who can handle "difficult" players.
Bibby is a difference maker on a good team. I wouldn't write him off too quickly or too cheaply. He may not be the right guy for the Kings right now,
but someone ought to be able to put him to effective use.
Keep Artest, trade Bibby if the deal is right.
Bibby is a difference maker on a good team. I wouldn't write him off too quickly or too cheaply. He may not be the right guy for the Kings right now,
but someone ought to be able to put him to effective use.
Keep Artest, trade Bibby if the deal is right.
I think that trading Artest is more of the priority this offseason, although I'm sure they're exploring options for Bibby as well. The only option mentioned for Artest thus far has been to Miami and actually makes a lot of sense. He could be an important missing piece for them and should at least be temporarily controlled by his teammates and coaching staff. I suppose JWill or Haslim could be had in return.
As far as Bibby goes I think that a package starting with him and the #10 pick makes the most sense. I believe that the #10 pick this year is actually worth more in trade than in the player we get as it seems to be more of a 7-8 player draft. It is possible we could solve our frontcourt problem here as well. There are a lot of talented big man on the trading block this offseason such as Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Jermaine O'Neil, Elton Brand, and Kevin Garnett and I honestly think that with the exception of Garnett that all will be moved. I could see Memphis, Indiana, and especially the Clips interested in this, especially if a young player such as Garcia or Douby were added.
The last option that has been talked about here a lot has been to Atlanta and I could see that too. Bibby would be a big help to them and they seem very enamored with Spencer Hawes who should be available at #10 as long as the Bulls don't trade their #9 to them first which might happen.
Unfortunately, unless we used the #10 just to clear salary I don't think there's a chance the Kings can move Miller or Thomas.
As far as Bibby goes I think that a package starting with him and the #10 pick makes the most sense. I believe that the #10 pick this year is actually worth more in trade than in the player we get as it seems to be more of a 7-8 player draft. It is possible we could solve our frontcourt problem here as well. There are a lot of talented big man on the trading block this offseason such as Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Jermaine O'Neil, Elton Brand, and Kevin Garnett and I honestly think that with the exception of Garnett that all will be moved. I could see Memphis, Indiana, and especially the Clips interested in this, especially if a young player such as Garcia or Douby were added.
The last option that has been talked about here a lot has been to Atlanta and I could see that too. Bibby would be a big help to them and they seem very enamored with Spencer Hawes who should be available at #10 as long as the Bulls don't trade their #9 to them first which might happen.
Unfortunately, unless we used the #10 just to clear salary I don't think there's a chance the Kings can move Miller or Thomas.
chrisnu
Bench
The problem with this trade would be that the Lakers could only take in 125% + 100,000 more salary than they are giving out. Bibby and Shareef earned a combined $17.9 million next year. In order to make such a trade work, the Lakers would need to trade a combined $14.22 million in salary. Farmar and Bynum made a combined $2.97 million last year, which means the Lakers would also need to trade Kwame Brown ($8.29 million) and a re-signed Aaron McKie at $3 million, for example, in order to make the trade work.
Assuming the Kings have the additional roster spot for Brown (and waive McKie), the Lakers would not do this for a couple of reasons. First, I don't think the Lakers are willing to give up both Farmar and Bynum for Bibby. Second, the Lakers are already heavy on MLE-type shooters (Radmanovic, Cook), and wouldn't want Shareef. Third, I think the Lakers are looking to get more athletic and get better defensively, which Shareef (athleticism) and Bibby (defense) don't provide. Just my opinion...
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
Why can't we trade Bibby until July 1st? I thought he had an early termination clause should he choose to use it, but he isn't a free agent with a player option is he? That still makes him tradeable just like any other Kings player doesn't it?
Anyway as far as the Lakers scenario goes I would think they would be very interested in Bibby, especially if you believe the trade rumors that came up mid-season. However Bynum seems to be untouchable right now and while Farmar has talent he's overrated (just like every other Lakers player not named Bryant). I think it would be tough to put together a package unless they had some expiring contracts for the next season or we're willing to take on Kenny Thomas as well in return for shorter contracts.
Anyway as far as the Lakers scenario goes I would think they would be very interested in Bibby, especially if you believe the trade rumors that came up mid-season. However Bynum seems to be untouchable right now and while Farmar has talent he's overrated (just like every other Lakers player not named Bryant). I think it would be tough to put together a package unless they had some expiring contracts for the next season or we're willing to take on Kenny Thomas as well in return for shorter contracts.
Nope. If a player has a live early termination option during the offseason, he can't be traded.
I imagine there are at least two good reasons for this - one because a team could be hurt by trading for a player who then walks away to free agency, the other because trading for a player about to exercise his ETO (a "super-ender", if you like) would be a real effective way of getting around the salary cap rules.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#85
(second bullet)
kennadog
Dog On It!
I'm beginning to think we need to sticky this fact. It would prevent the myriad suggested pre-draft, draft day Bibby trades being floated around here.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm actually pretty sure I've seen such trades completed in the past and just held up pending the beginning of the free agent period. Its only two days anymore.
I would also imagine that Bibby could agree to waive the ETO in support of a trade, although that would obviously give him an effective trade veto if he did not like the end locale.
An interesting possibility is him exercising the ETO in order to facilitate a sign and trade to a team he wants to go to by agreeing to a new long term deal with a smaller starting salary than the current $13.5mil number. Thing is that I don't think that anybody is supposed to be talking about Mike, or Mike to them, before the ETO comes up as he's still our player unless he exercises it. Doesn't mean it couoldn't be happening anyway. And given that we would have to file a complaint, depending on our front office's attitudes about such a manuever, I suppose it could even be happening at our behest or with our permission.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Boston have that pick 5 but I am not sure they would give it up for Artest unfortunately
whozit
Starter
Aren't agents known to contact various teams when they want their player moved in order to facilitate a trade? If the Kings truely want to move him, I could see them giving their blessing. I actually wouldn't be surprised if something along the lines of him waiving his ETO is being discussed in order to get him to where he will get more visibility and the Kings what they are looking for.
bibbinator
Bench
Can Bibby be bought down by the Kings, ie the Kings agree to pay some portion of his salary to make him more tradeable.
I wonder if Houston would be interested in picking him now that they have RA? He'd be an upgrade from Rafer Alston.
I wonder if Houston would be interested in picking him now that they have RA? He'd be an upgrade from Rafer Alston.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
They both need to be traded. Artest is a nutcase. I don't want a nutcase on the Kings. I think for all intent and purchases, he's uncoachable, and no, I don't think Adelman coached him, I just think Artest was soo glad to come out of purgatory that he behaved for 6 months. Bibby is a 6 foot shooting guard. He can't defend. And by the time this team has a chance of being good - maybe 2-3 years from now, Bibby will begin to be on the downhill slide. Because he is unathletic, he will start to go downhill sooner rather than an athletic point guard. Bibby will allow this team to remain mediocre for quite some time - not bad enough to get very good, not good enough to every have a chance of a championship. Just a nice little team. It's time to go young, go athletic, finally dismantle and build with a core that is close to the same age as Martin.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
And one thing that Petrie did say (he actually says things from time to time) is that this team must have better defenders. You definitely don't get better at defending with Bibby at the point and Miller at center. Miller is untradable. Ergo, Bibby should be gone.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
No prob:
1) we trade Bibby to Minny
2) Minny trades their #7 to us, and one of their stupid PG contracts (James, Jaric, Hudson)
3) Minny trades either another of their PG contracts (James or Jaric presumably, or Blount) down to Houston to either be their starting PG (James) or starting PF (Blount)
4) Houston sends us the Sura ender, and something else small to make the salaries match.
Minny gets a starting PG next to KG who loves the pick and roll. They also get relief from a couple of their dumbass MLE contracts that their entire team is composed of anymore.
Houston gets either its starting PG (James, maybe Jaric) or starting PF (Blount).
We accept the bad MLE contract from Minny to add to our KT/SAR/Salmons collection in order to get the #7 pick, leaving us with #7 and #10.
Minny already has a young pg of the future. Remember? He was instrumental in beating the Kings last year. Can't remember his name though...
chrisnu
Bench
Randy Foye, I believe.
