Keeping Bibby & Artest (merged)

[OvechKiN]

Honestly, with all the talk about trading Bibby and Artest, why can't we keep them?
Artest is on a contract year and will behave this year IMO, and I dont think he has a thing against Sacramento. He is still an elite talent as long as the new coach can try to get him not to hog the ball and jack up ill-advised 3's.
Bibby had an off year, but is still a top 12 PG in the league IMO.

IMO, the challenge should be to trade Kenny Thomas & Brad Miller for expirings (may have to package them with Garcia, Douby, SAR or our 1st).
I F$%^%$ hate Kenny Thomas!
A big expiring like Antawn Jamison would be nice.
I wanted to get a Ron Artest jersey this weekend when I saw one (In Canada, all we ever got was Bibby and Webber jerseys for the Kings), but with all the trade rumours, I held back, Lol

 

[John Galt]

I could not agree more (except the cuss words in front of the "hate Kenny Thomas" part... I merely hate him, I don't $%^%$ hate him).

I will be happy next year if Artest and Bibby are still Kings, and happier still if Brad and Kenny aren't.

 

[Gary]

Honestly, with all the talk about trading Bibby and Artest, why can't we keep them?
Artest is on a contract year and will behave this year IMO, and I dont think he has a thing against Sacramento. He is still an elite talent as long as the new coach can try to get him not to hog the ball and jack up ill-advised 3's.
Bibby had an off year, but is still a top 12 PG in the league IMO.

Because they can't play together. They have already proved this. We cannot keep them both. One, maybe...

 

[OvechKiN]

Any chance we can land someone like Marvin Williams?
ATL seem to be desperately needing a PG. If Bibby is shipped, I'd expect Marvin Williams back to be happy.
Unlike that stupid Webber trade where the only player I liked from the big 3 was SKinner.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Honestly, with all the talk about trading Bibby and Artest, why can't we keep them?
Artest is on a contract year and will behave this year IMO, and I dont think he has a thing against Sacramento. He is still an elite talent as long as the new coach can try to get him not to hog the ball and jack up ill-advised 3's.
Bibby had an off year, but is still a top 12 PG in the league IMO.

IMO, the challenge should be to trade Kenny Thomas & Brad Miller for expirings (may have to package them with Garcia, Douby, SAR or our 1st).
I F$%^%$ hate Kenny Thomas!
A big expiring like Antawn Jamison would be nice.
I wanted to get a Ron Artest jersey this weekend when I saw one (In Canada, all we ever got was Bibby and Webber jerseys for the Kings), but with all the trade rumours, I held back, Lol

Um, because teams might actually want Bibby and Artest unlike Miller and Thomas who are practically unmoveable. We have no need for Bibby and Artest next year, we're not going tocompete for anything that matters anyways and we need to focus on our future not the present.

 

[John Galt]

Um, because teams might actually want Bibby and Artest unlike Miller and Thomas who are practically unmoveable. We have no need for Bibby and Artest next year, we're not going tocompete for anything that matters anyways and we need to focus on our future not the present.

Yes but Thomas and Miller are the ones destroying our future. Unless you are going to trade Artest/Bibby for serious front court help and just bench >$20M in salary (KT+Miller)- what is the use?

Figuring out a way to move the practically unmovable Miller and Thomas... that's why Geoff gets the big bucks.

The only way I want to move Bibby/Artest is as a necessary evil - a means to an end - in a package that gets rid of the pitiful bigs.

 

[VF21]

Because they can't play together. They have already proved this. We cannot keep them both. One, maybe...

You know, that actually HASN'T been proven. What was shown to be painfully obvious was that the entire team suffered from a drastic lack of leadership from the head coach. And that, IMHO, translated into a myriad of problems, including a perceived lack of teamwork between Bibby and Artest.

We need a GOOD head coach. If we start with that, then good things will follow. We need healthy players without off-the-court drama.

I'm not at all convinced Mike and RonRon can't play together. They seemed to do okay when Adelman was here and I think the right coach could find ways to accentuate their strengths.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I agree that the so-called "chemistry" issue between Artest and Bibby may be overstated. I thought it was interesting that when Artest had his domestic problem most recently it was Bibby in the Kings organization he called first and it was Bibby who was said to have been first on the scene to assist Ron-Ron. It won't be an issue next season since one of them is almost certain to be gone and my first choice is Bibby.

 

[nbrans]

Talking about this in the abstract is fine and good, but ultimately it comes down to what you're getting in return. The Kings don't HAVE to move either player, but if the right right deal comes along I don't think Petrie will hesitate.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Yes but Thomas and Miller are the ones destroying our future. Unless you are going to trade Artest/Bibby for serious front court help and just bench >$20M in salary (KT+Miller)- what is the use?

Figuring out a way to move the practically unmovable Miller and Thomas... that's why Geoff gets the big bucks.

The only way I want to move Bibby/Artest is as a necessary evil - a means to an end - in a package that gets rid of the pitiful bigs.

Hey if Petrie can pull off a miracle and move these guys I'm totally for it, never said I wasn't. I'm just saying it's totally unrealistic to expect it to happen, I don't care who the GM is that is a near impossible task to pull off.

There is no point in keeping Artest or Bibby unless you just want the straight up cap space when they opt out. They serve no purpose for us otherwise because we're not winning next year or the year after that, the future is our only real shot at contention and that's the only kind of winning that matters.

 

[John Galt]

the future is our only real shot at contention and that's the only kind of winning that matters.

I don't feel that way but I know a lot of people do. I'd rather the Kings be pretty good than really crappy, and I don't think "championship contender" is the only brand of good that is worth having.

I know lots of people say "either be a championship contender or tank for lotto position". I'm just not one of them. But I would be happy to see them go with youthful prospects in the front court and struggle with a poor W/L record for a while as they grow. Better that than watch pouty Kenny and whatever Brad slog through another couple campaigns. Of course if they return I'll get my head around it and root for them. I just am not in the "dump Bibby and/or Artest" camp. Not at all.

My real opinion is that Bibby/Martin/Artest would be a genuine team to be reckoned with - a team as good as I need or want to have and one that could go very deep and maybe win the hardware - if the frontcourt was upgraded... and I mean a really really good team NOW. That's how I feel and I know I'm in the minority. So that's why I'm against blowing up the backcourt unless necessary to tend to the urgent business of blowing up the frontcourt.

 

[VF21]

I hear you, Francisco.

I just want to see good basketball when I go to a game. And perhaps my expectations are lower than some, but I don't have to see the Kings be "championship contenders" either.

I especially agree with your last comment:

My real opinion is that Bibby/Martin/Artest would be a genuine team to be reckoned with - a team as good as I need or want to have and one that could go very deep and maybe win the hardware - if the frontcourt was upgraded... and I mean a really really good team NOW. That's how I feel and I know I'm in the minority. So that's why I'm against blowing up the backcourt unless necessary to tend to the urgent business of blowing up the frontcourt.

I think one problem we have nowadays is too many people think everything is disposable at the drop of a hat and they might mix up real basketball with the latest video game.

I say fix the REAL problems - the coach and the frontcourt - and see what happens. Get rid of the albatross contracts and the players wearing them and blend what we have with some good young players. Keep someone like Corliss around if possible because he brings a lot to the team on and off the court.

Bring back the fun in fundamental. Bring back the excitement to Arco. Do that and this will be one happy Kings fan. Of course, seeing the Kings go deep into the playoffs certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings any.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I don't feel that way but I know a lot of people do. I'd rather the Kings be pretty good than really crappy, and I don't think "championship contender" is the only brand of good that is worth having.

I know lots of people say "either be a championship contender or tank for lotto position". I'm just not one of them. But I would be happy to see them go with youthful prospects in the front court and struggle with a poor W/L record for a while as they grow. Better that than watch pouty Kenny and whatever Brad slog through another couple campaigns. Of course if they return I'll get my head around it and root for them. I just am not in the "dump Bibby and/or Artest" camp. Not at all.

My real opinion is that Bibby/Martin/Artest would be a genuine team to be reckoned with - a team as good as I need or want to have and one that could go very deep and maybe win the hardware - if the frontcourt was upgraded... and I mean a really really good team NOW. That's how I feel and I know I'm in the minority. So that's why I'm against blowing up the backcourt unless necessary to tend to the urgent business of blowing up the frontcourt.

Well I completely and respectfully disagree, that core is not enough to get even close to what our goal should be. I'm not content with being a one and done team for the next several years. I'm not concerned with just putting a less visually disturbing team out there next year, I think the goal should be building towards a championship and I don't think Bibby and Artest are apart of that, not to mention these guys skill sets just don't work together IMO. We need to rebuild for REAL, it's been put off far too long. Time to finally put this team out of its misery and start anew. I can never be content with just first round exits, championships should always be the goal and that can't be realistically done with Artest, Bibby, and Martin. Just take a look at the talent in the western conference.

 

[bloom]

Honestly, with all the talk about trading Bibby and Artest, why can't we keep them?
Artest is on a contract year and will behave this year IMO, and I dont think he has a thing against Sacramento. He is still an elite talent as long as the new coach can try to get him not to hog the ball and jack up ill-advised 3's.
Bibby had an off year, but is still a top 12 PG in the league IMO.

IMO, the challenge should be to trade Kenny Thomas & Brad Miller for expirings (may have to package them with Garcia, Douby, SAR or our 1st).
I F$%^%$ hate Kenny Thomas!
A big expiring like Antawn Jamison would be nice.
I wanted to get a Ron Artest jersey this weekend when I saw one (In Canada, all we ever got was Bibby and Webber jerseys for the Kings), but with all the trade rumours, I held back, Lol

If Artest is in his contract year, I think it’s the best time to ship him out for another player. I don’t believe that we’re going to resign him (but that’s just my personal opinion).

Right now, I’m willing to keep Bibby. But if we can get better pieces in return and I’m not talking about expiring contracts. I’m talking about real players, players who can help this team and build and jell together. Then I’m all for trading him up.

I don’t want to trade either Garcia or Douby. But SAR needs to go. He’s slow, and just doesn’t do it for us and me.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Honestly, with all the talk about trading Bibby and Artest, why can't we keep them?
Artest is on a contract year and will behave this year IMO, and I dont think he has a thing against Sacramento. He is still an elite talent as long as the new coach can try to get him not to hog the ball and jack up ill-advised 3's.
Bibby had an off year, but is still a top 12 PG in the league IMO.

IMO, the challenge should be to trade Kenny Thomas & Brad Miller for expirings (may have to package them with Garcia, Douby, SAR or our 1st).
I F$%^%$ hate Kenny Thomas!
A big expiring like Antawn Jamison would be nice.
I wanted to get a Ron Artest jersey this weekend when I saw one (In Canada, all we ever got was Bibby and Webber jerseys for the Kings), but with all the trade rumours, I held back, Lol

another year of treading water.. yay........... goo kings...

 

[Bricklayer]

You can keep one, not both. You probably should keep neither.

Artest is a time bomb. He has ruined the chemistry of every team he has ever been on because he is not a normal human being. There is simply something wrong with him. Not in a million years would you want him as an employee or a coworker because you simply cannot trust him. We will have no chemistry here either so long as he is around. His talent is nearly irrelevant. He has the talent to have his best statistical year...and have his team win 34 games. Big woop. Meanwhile he can leave us for nothgin at the end of the year, and is such an undependable character that not only is there a good chance he'll do it, but there is a good chance you will never be sure until his last impulsive moment. Now is the time to move him, when he's still ours to move, and other teams see an opportunity to gamble on him and maybe only have to endure him for a year if it does not work out.

Bibby is yesterday's news. Yesterday's news being paid like he is LeBron. He never was as good as he was made out (or as bad as others made him out), and now the money issue is out of control. He is one of those good players in the league who can add a handful of wins to a good team that can take advantage of their strengths and cover their weaknesses, but have no ability at all to carry a bad one. Its time to turn the page, as I think both sides are pretty much sick of each other and ready to move on.

You don't rebuild while hanging on to chunks of deadweight as some sort of half-assed safety blanket. Those guys have a place in the league (well at least Mike does), and many franchises where they could go and serve a purpose. We aren't it. And realistically, our best chances at turning this thing around key precisely on our ability to spin those guys into something valuable. These are not the guys you get clingy to.

My one qualifier to all that is that if we were to sign Terry Porter as our coach, and that did indicate Geoff trying to move back to his Princeton system again, that Mike, as well as Brad, have additional value there. Of course as two fo the worst defenders int eh NBA at their positions (or any position) their "value" such as it is is largely to resume our awesome string of #8 type seed teams. Hence, its STILL time to move them. Barring a KG type Hail Mary our next contention window is probably at least three years away. There is no point in wasting the prime years of veteran talent treading water and attempting to screw yourself into mediocre draft position every year.

 

[Merdiesel]

Honestly, with all the talk about trading Bibby and Artest, why can't we keep them?
Artest is on a contract year and will behave this year IMO, and I dont think he has a thing against Sacramento. He is still an elite talent as long as the new coach can try to get him not to hog the ball and jack up ill-advised 3's.
Bibby had an off year, but is still a top 12 PG in the league IMO.

IMO, the challenge should be to trade Kenny Thomas & Brad Miller for expirings (may have to package them with Garcia, Douby, SAR or our 1st).
I F$%^%$ hate Kenny Thomas!
A big expiring like Antawn Jamison would be nice.
I wanted to get a Ron Artest jersey this weekend when I saw one (In Canada, all we ever got was Bibby and Webber jerseys for the Kings), but with all the trade rumours, I held back, Lol

There is no way I would be ok with us trading our 1st round pick.

 

[VF21]

Bibby is yesterday's news. Yesterday's news being paid like he is LeBron. He never was as good as he was made out (or as bad as others made him out), and now the money issue is out of control. He is one of those good players in the league who can add a handful of wins to a good team that can take advantage of their strengths and cover their weaknesses, but have no ability at all to carry a bad one. Its time to turn the page, as I think both sides are pretty much sick of each other and ready to move on.

You don't rebuild while hanging on to chunks of deadweight as some sort of half-assed safety blanket. Those guys have a place in the league (well at least Mike does), and many franchises where they could go and serve a purpose. We aren't it. And realistically, our best chances at turning this thing around key precisely on our ability to spin those guys into something valuable. These are not the guys you get clingy to.

My one qualifier to all that is that if we were to sign Terry Porter as our coach, and that did indicate Geoff trying to move back to his Princeton system again, that Mike, as well as Brad, have additional value there. Of course as two fo the worst defenders int eh NBA at their positions (or any position) their "value" such as it is is largely to resume our awesome string of #8 type seed teams. Hence, its STILL time to move them. Barring a KG type Hail Mary our next contention window is probably at least three years away. There is no point in wasting the prime years of veteran talent treading water and attempting to screw yourself into mediocre draft position every year.

I'll respectfully disagree about Mike Bibby.

I think last year was an aberration. He was injured early, never really got his game back - although we did see flashes towards the end of the season - and wasn't really ever part of a cohesive team as much as a bunch of guys wearing the same uniforms.

Artest is a different situation. While I still think the right coach MIGHT be able to get him to produce the way Adelman did, there are still a lot of risks involved, which was my main reason for not wanting him in the first place. And, unfortunately, those fears have pretty much been born out by what has happened.

Regardless, I think we could keep Bibby and have him be productive IF we can address our frontcourt problems. I don't see him as deadwood at all.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I'd be all for trading one of them.. i guess artest, we can trade artest, draft a SF who will probly be the best available player by are pick, and get a big man in return for ron.. i'd settle for david lee, bynum, pachulia, dalembert, anything thats better than what we have.. maybe even Frye.. i think bibby, martin, drafted SF / garcia , thomas/SAR/Miller and whatever decent bigman we trade ron for with a good coach could be a really entertaining team

 

[Bricklayer]

Regardless, I think we could keep Bibby and have him be productive IF we can address our frontcourt problems. I don't see him as deadwood at all.

A productive Mike Bibby is still not worth $13.5 million dollars. At this point he's barely even an average PG in the West, with Nash, A.I., Parker, Baron, Williams, Paul all banging around. Make him 22 and still working on his rookie contract, and sure, good enough. Make him 29 and with one of the 30 highest salaries in the game, and no.

He has value to a team looking for a piece to put them over the top, not so much to a team starting over.

Keeping Mike Bibby at this point is mostly about sentiment. Its not enough when there is so much work to be done.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Artest has to go IMO, I think we can at least get an expiring and a pick for him and that's good enough for me. Bibby we can be a little bit more conservative with, there is no point in taking back huge contracts when he'll more than likely opt out after next year.

 

[chelle]

My vote has always been to keep Bibby and trade Artest. I think that last season was a one time slump for Bibby. I believe that he is still a quality PG with a lot to offer. I think that many factors contributed to this past season's performance that will not affect him this year.

Artest scares me plain and simple. I, in all honesty, am tired of waiting to see what bone headed thing he is going to do next. If he can shut-up, stay out of jail, and just play good ball, I would not be adverse to keeping him. I just do not think that he can or will do that.

As for the chemistry issues between he and Bibby, I am more concerned with what happens when Artest and Martin are on the floor together. It may just be my perception, but Kevin seemed more out of sync with Ron than without. I think that Mike and Ron can coexist as long as they (or a good coach) defines the roles they will each hold.

 

[NoBonus]

Dream about trading Bibby

Last night I had the strangest dream that the Kings traded Bibby to get the #4 pick in the draft and some lame-duck player with a similar contract... I do not remember the details, but man did it seem real. It was just like when I heard Webber or Christie was traded; sur-real in a way. What do you think it means? Perhaps I need a new hobby...

 

[SacKings384]

If Bibby gets traded for the number 4 pick and some lame-duck player then I'm reporting you to the CIA.

 

[Kingzrool]

A productive Mike Bibby is still not worth $13.5 million dollars. He has value to a team looking for a piece to put them over the top, not so much to a team starting over.

Tend to agree. A team that really needs a piece like Bibby to complete the set for a contention run is where GP will find the most value for the Kings.Bibby has certainly made it clear that he cannot lead a team. For what he is making, that is unacceptable.Artest is more of a difference maker, I would almost rather see him coupled with a more compatible team leader than Bibby to stay and hobble through his contract.If the trades are right, I am for moving them both.

 

[Arkitect]

Forget that. I'm taking you to Vegas!

 

[Gary]

Honestly I think we would be a better team with Garcia Starting w/ Salmons backing up over Artest/Salmons.

 

[ParniValjak]

You can keep one, not both. You probably should keep neither.

Artest is a time bomb. He has ruined the chemistry of every team he has ever been on because he is not a normal human being. There is simply something wrong with him. Not in a million years would you want him as an employee or a coworker because you simply cannot trust him. We will have no chemistry here either so long as he is around. His talent is nearly irrelevant. He has the talent to have his best statistical year...and have his team win 34 games. Big woop. Meanwhile he can leave us for nothgin at the end of the year, and is such an undependable character that not only is there a good chance he'll do it, but there is a good chance you will never be sure until his last impulsive moment. Now is the time to move him, when he's still ours to move, and other teams see an opportunity to gamble on him and maybe only have to endure him for a year if it does not work out.

Bibby is yesterday's news. Yesterday's news being paid like he is LeBron. He never was as good as he was made out (or as bad as others made him out), and now the money issue is out of control. He is one of those good players in the league who can add a handful of wins to a good team that can take advantage of their strengths and cover their weaknesses, but have no ability at all to carry a bad one. Its time to turn the page, as I think both sides are pretty much sick of each other and ready to move on.

You don't rebuild while hanging on to chunks of deadweight as some sort of half-assed safety blanket. Those guys have a place in the league (well at least Mike does), and many franchises where they could go and serve a purpose. We aren't it. And realistically, our best chances at turning this thing around key precisely on our ability to spin those guys into something valuable. These are not the guys you get clingy to.

My one qualifier to all that is that if we were to sign Terry Porter as our coach, and that did indicate Geoff trying to move back to his Princeton system again, that Mike, as well as Brad, have additional value there. Of course as two fo the worst defenders int eh NBA at their positions (or any position) their "value" such as it is is largely to resume our awesome string of #8 type seed teams. Hence, its STILL time to move them. Barring a KG type Hail Mary our next contention window is probably at least three years away. There is no point in wasting the prime years of veteran talent treading water and attempting to screw yourself into mediocre draft position every year.

Wow! Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[ParniValjak]

It means that Bibby won't be traded

 

[chelle]

Instead of focusing on Bibby or Artest, I want Petrie to convince somebody to take Thomas, SAR, or Miller - preferably Thomas. Surely, he can con somebody.